Conference misery::feline_v1

    Well, when I got my first cat I didn't know anything about cats,
    and I let him be an outside cat because that's what my neighbors
    did with theirs.  He kept getting beaten up, and several times I
    thought he was lost.  He almost lost an eye in his last fight (big
    gash, just missed the eye).  So, I decided to keep him indoors.
     It took about two weeks before he adjusted.  I have a lot of
    interesting places for cats in the house -- long bookshelves just
    underneath windows, a bay window area where the sun comes in and
    I can leave the (screened) windows open, cat platforms, etc.  He
    and my current two have always seemed happy. I think having two
    cats when you will be away during the day and they are indoor cats
    is better than one.
    
    My neighbors' cats have been twice hit by cars since then.
    Neighborhood cats have been killed by a huge dog that some crazy
    person down the street owned.  Inside, I say.  All the statistics
    say they'll live longer, and I think you can arrange an intersting
    environment indoors for them.
    

    I agree with keeping them indoors.  Yes, Chauncy will probably want
    out, but will eventually get over it.  Mine did, especially now
    that she has a place to lay in the sun, a scratching post, and free
    romp of the cellar.  I enjoy not having to worry about her getting
    hit by a car, getting in bloody fights, wet dirty paws, and the
    possibility of her bringing fleas home to my rugs.  Yuck!  They
    stay much cleaner and healthier I'm sure!
    
    
    Pam
    

    
    Another "outdoor" cat converted to an "indoor" cat.  My daughters
    cat "Sundae" used to be an outdoor cat, would meow to go out and
    chase the birds!  So when we moved to our new house we decided to
    make him an indoor cat as I didn't like the idea of him chasing
    and sometimes catching the birds.  He adjusted very well, after
    the normal 3 or 4 days of getting used to a strange place.  Now
    he doesn't even try to go out when we are going in or out.  Whereas
    my sister's cat (who lives with us) tries to dash outside every
    chance he gets and he's been an indoor cat from the time that we
    got him.  It has amazed me how well Sundae has adjusted to it, tho.
    It's like he could care less if he ever goes outside again.  A nice
    plus to this is that he's much more affectionate now too, than before.
    
    	My
    

    Even relatively rural neighborhoods can be dangerous.  I had a cat
    for several years who was indoor/outdoor.  Her last home was in
    a lovely semi-rural area on a very nice lake.  All went well until
    some folks down the street had their lawn treated with ChemLawn.
    When I returned home that evening, my cat was dead.
    
    I have not permitted my cats outside since, and will never do so
    again.
    
    Rita
    

    Hi Roberta -
    
    My experience has been that all my cats adjusted to being indoors
    cats. All my current 7 cats were brought in from the outdoors, and
    while they might sit at the window and look outside (as well as
    enjoy the sunshine), they have not made a move for  bolting out the
    door nor do they cry,scratch, or howl to go out. I live in an area
    with alotof traffic so I wouldn't let them out anyway.
                         
    And they are all happy. (I think having each
    other to play with during the day, keeps them occupied.)
    
    The only thing with letting a cat out is that one
    day they "may" not return and the thought of "not knowing" what
    happened to them - are they trapped [such as happened in Natick
    and Framingham recently], are they hurt, did someone think they
    were a stray and brought them in and kept them, etc... - would
    bother me tremendously.
                                                                                                                                                                                                          and water is kept, where he sleeps, where everything is that mea
    I guess it boils down to how safe is the area where they will be,
    are you positive the cat is unhappy indoors, and how comfortable
    are you with letting the  cat out. Another thing to consider - when
    Nikki sees Chauncey go out - will Nikki also want out?
    
    This is one of those topics where you will get alot of replies with
    very strong feelings, and alot of insight from personal experiences,
    so you will have to read them all, sort them out, think about them,
    and decide how YOU feel most comfortable. 
       
    My choice was easy - most of my cats are handicapped anyway, plus
    I have alot of traffic in the area - two reasons for keeping them
    indoors.
     
    Pat
    
    P.S. There are LOTS of cats who go out and do just fine.
                       

    The first cat I had when I was living at home with my parents. We
    always thought it was unfair for cats to be kept inside, so after she
    grew up, we accompanied her out for her first few times and then she
    became and indoor/outdoor cat.  She use to have a ball outside chasing
    bugs, grass blowing in the wind etc. At the time we lived in a suburb
    of Boston, in a relatively quiet neighborhood.  Then one day she
    disappeared.  My mom and I combed the neighborhood to no avail.  She
    finally came home three days and a lot of tears later with a large
    wound.  The vet thought she had been hit by a car and became a bit
    disoriented.  She survived and went on being an indoor/outdoor cat. 
    
    About a year after this incident we moved to NH.  We lived on a very
    remote street by a pond with plenty of trees for Maggie to climb.  We
    thought this was her paradise and she did too.  I left for college
    leaving my baby behind.  Mom said it was funny how every night I was
    home she would sleep in my room, but the day I left she wouldn't go in
    there anymore.  Well, Spring break I came home and went to my room.  I
    knew something was wrong but couldn't quite place it.  My mom came in
    and told me the news.  Maggie had died 2 weeks earlier, they didn't
    want to tell me because I had mid-terms. I guess what happened was they
    had let her out for her usual after dinner jaunt. Before my brother
    went to bed he called her as usual but she didn't come.  He figured she
    was just being stubborn.  The next morning when my dad left for work,
    he found Maggie lying frozen at the end of our walkway.  He figured she
    had been hit by a car at the end of our driveway and tried to make it
    back to the house.  My brother felt so responsible he cried for three
    days...he still vows he will never have another pet. 
    
    Well I am too much of a kitty lover.  I got my new kitty about a year
    and a half ago.  At the time my apartment only allowed indoor kitties
    so we didn't have much of a choice at first.  My husband and I took her
    out once in a while but she was always content inside. When we moved to
    a relatively quiet neighborhood we weren't quite sure what to do. The
    thought of losing her the way I lost Maggie terrified me.  I  also
    talked to a friend of mine, who is studying to become a vet and has two
    indoor kitties of his own.  He said there is so much disease that they
    can get outside from other cats, dogs, squirrels that it is safer and
    healthier to keep them inside.  So my cat is still happy exploring the
    house, basking in the sunshine that pours through the window, chasing
    the occaisional bug that makes it in the house and playing with
    everything that is not a cat toy.  She will sit by an open door
    with no longing to go outside. 
    
    It does all depend on the neighborhood, the cat and the owner.
                                                         

    
    This topic has come up at an appropriate time.  I live in an upstairs
    apartment but I have a *huge* balcony off the living room. I have
    recently been letting T.C. go and wander around out there and he
    *loves* it.  I only do it when I'm home and I usually will go and
    sit with him out there.  My friend thinks it's a bad idea because
    he will want to be outdoors all the time and may take off on me.
    I definitely do not want him to be an outdoor cat because I couldn't
    stand to see him get hurt or wonder where he is. 
    
    What do my fellow feliners think?  I am asking for trouble letting
    him out at all?
    
    Donna
    
    

    My Maggie is an indoor cat who likes to go out to lounge around
    the yard in nice weather.  She'll streak out an open door and into
    the sunshine.  Several times she has streaked out and I haven't
    noticed.  She r-e-a-l-l-y is and knows she is a house cat and hates
    it when she gets shut out alone.  This past summer she would go
    out in the yard for the day when the workmen were working on the
    house and trot up the hill [in the back yard] to come in with me
    at the end of the day.  It made me a bit nervous, but she was very
    concientious and it came out all right.
    
    I suppose, for me a cat is an indoor critter.  I came by so many
    of my foster cats via tragic outdoor experiences that I tend only
    to be comfortable with cats outdoors when they are supervised, much
    like small children.
    
    Entirely outdoor cats aren't a problem for me either -- I've known
    many a happy barn or dairy cat.
    
    The indoor/outdoor concept is one I cannot live with.  Once I bring
    a cat indoors a familial intimacy is there.  Emotionally for me
    outdoor cats are 'good and dear friends' and a cat that lives any 
    part of its life in my home is 'a very special child.'
    
      Annie
    

    Currently, I live in Grafton, and my Niki is an indoor/outdoor cat.
    When my husband first got her, she lived in Peabody, and was strictly
    an indoor car.  He lived close to a busy street, and feared he may
    loose her, just live he lost his former cat.  Niki always wanted
    to go out and hated to be indoors.  Everytime someone would come
    into the house, she would try to dash out.  She always sat in an
    opened, but screened window, watching the outdoors.  I think this
    is why she is so street smart.  It's as a result of all those days
    she watched the cars go by.  When she moved to Grafton, we felt
    it was time to let her out.  She did extremely well.  Made friends
    with another cat in the neighborhood, and together they would play.
    
    We moved to another part of Grafton, where it took her a few days
    to get use to the house, and once again she wanted to go out.  It's
    incredible how she sits at the end of the driveway, waiting to see
    if it's safe to cross.  
    
    In the winter, she stays in most of the time.  But in the summer,
    she's in to eat, and then out to play.  She loves the outdoors,
    and I could not take that away from her.
    
    I have also read in some article, that it's important to your cat's 
    health that they get enough of exercise.
    
    My suggestion to you is, do what you feel is the best thing for
    your individual kitty.
    
    Barbara
    

    Well, I opened my big mouth too soon about this indoor/outdoor thing.
    The last time Chauncey went out was at 9:30 a.m. this past Sunday,
    and I haven't seen him since.  Two little girls in my building said
    they saw him yesterday, and the maintenance people are on the lookout,
    have master keys, and will put him into my apartment for me.  Chauncey
    NEVER goes out while I am at work.  I keep him in all day, take
    him out when I get home, and he usually comes back within a couple
    of hours depending on how cold it is outside.  When we had the storm
    last Friday, he was forced to stay in right up until Saturday nite,
    so he must have been craving the outdoors by Sunday morning.
    
    I thought for sure he would be waiting for me on the stairs last
    night after work.  I looked in every building in the apartment complex,
    questioned people as they passed, etc.; however, no one could give
    me any information except those two little girls who said they saw
    him.  Whenever he is out for the night, he always comes home the
    next morning - needless to say, I am just frantic.  I made up fliers
    to post in the different buildings, but right now, it might be a
    bit too soon to post them.  The cleaning woman thinks that because
    of last night's rain, he took shelter in someone else's apartment --
    maybe even one with another kitty he can play with -- and will be
    home before I know it.
    
    If that is the case, I cannot understand why a cat who has everything
    including regular feedings and treats, toys galore, a scratching
    post, and even his very own kitty bed, would not want to come home
    if, in fact, he is okay.
    
    Someone mentioned putting a collar and I.D. tag on him so people
    won't mistake him for a stray.  Since he used to be a stray cat
    in the complex, perhaps a few people aren't aware that he is now
    owned (I alerted whom I thought were all of the people that fed
    him of his new home; perhaps there were more).
    
    I miss my baby...
                                                  

    
    RE .11
    
    I am very sorry to hear that Chauncy is missing.  I have a few
    suggestions in posting Lost ads that have worked for other people.
    First, did you offer a reward people often respond quicker when
    there is money involved.
    *Secondly (now this may sound tacky but it has been effective) on
    the poster mention that Chauncy is on important medication. This
    has worked because if someone has him they won't want a sick animal
    on their hands don't mention what sort of medication let them guess
    enough that they don't want to find out. I realize it is a fib and
    people disapprove of such tactics but I know it's worked for several
    of my friends so you may want to consider trying it.
    
    best of luck
    let us all know about Chauncy,
    
    Fran
    

    Re: .11
    
    I would post notices now (why put yourself thru this any longer
    than you have to, if it turns out that someone does have him). 
    Also, is there any place he might have gotten accidentally shut
    in?  A storage area or something, either at your building or in
    the vicinity?  Please let us know how things are going.
    
    Re: .8
    
    A problem with "upstairs balconies" and the like is that cats (and
    dogs) can fall off.  They are distracted chasing a bug or whatever
    and ... over the edge.  I know personally of two cases where this
    happened.
    

    Thanks, Fran, for your suggestion.  No, I wasn't planning on offering
    money although I know money talks; however, the medication trick
    is right up my alley!  Who cares about tacky...I just want my kitty
    back home with me.
    
    The people in my building are SO nice.  They are all keeping their
    eyes and ears open and the girl across the hall keeps watch outside
    her window since it faces the front of the complex.  She has two
    ferrets that Chauncey just loves to play with, and we are hoping
    he will be back soon to visit with them.
    
    Thanks for your kind thoughts.  I will keep you posted.
                     

    Well, Karen, I keep calling and calling his name outside until my
    voice is hoarse, but I am assuming that he is definitely inside
    somewhere.
    
    If I yell, "kitty food" in a real high voice he comes running from
    where ever he is, but that didn't work either.
    
    I hope we are just missing each other at the door.
    
    RE:  .13 (Karen Kolling's note)
    
    I can't think of any obscure places he could get shut into.  The
    boiler room is the only place ,but the maintenance people are in
    there every day and I check it every night.  But thanks for the
    suggestion -- I will be more aware tonite when I look.
                                              

    if one of _my_ cats was missing and I thought it would help get
    him/her back sooner, I'd say he/she had AIDS!!!
    
    [but then, _I'm_ not above coming on like Typhoid Mary to get some joker
    out of my face when I mean business either, so I guess you have
    to consider the source]
    
      Annie

    RE: .14
    
    Last summer when Argus escaped through an open window (left open
    by the juvenile delinquents that broke into my house and then
    discovered that they were dead-bolted in) I observed that a reward
    set many of the neighborhood tykes out looking for Argus. Luckily,
    he returned after 4 days (requiring almost $100 in vet costs). Anyhow,
    the point is that a small reward ($30) is like a fortune to kids
    and they will comb the area looking for your cat.
    
    Deb
    
    P.S. Argus now runs in the other direction when a door or window
    is open.

    One more thing to consider when looking around the neighborhood
    for a lost cat is to "LOOK UP". I once found my neighbor's cat who
    got up in a tree and was baffled on how to get down. This can happen
    if something frightened them enough so that they are too frightened
    to come back down. Cats generally find their way down again when
    they get hungry, but they have been known to spend days out on a
    limb )my neighbor's cat had been missing for six days when I found
    her in the tree, she was, of course starving at that point which
    required tree-climbing to get her down.
    
    So, just don't skirt the ground  Look up! up! Up!
    Fran

    Good suggestion (.19) to look up in the trees!
    
    On a different note, if you're interested, I witnessed a serious
    cat fight last night.  Because I have been feeding a stray (and
    have posted notices in the area hoping that she belongs to someone)
    it seems that two Wild cats living in the woods have found her
    food bowl too.  I heard a noise, looked out the back door and
    saw them poised for a few minutes and then pounce together on the
    ground, locked in battle.  All a could really see was tuffs of
    fur flying around.  I had to go out to scare them off one another.
    They both took off into the woods (same direction) and I can only
    assume the fighting continued.
                                                             
    This is one of those times I say "Boy, am I glad my cats are indoors"!
                                                                  
    
    Pam
    

    RE: 11
    
    My cat has disappeared a few times overnight and late into the next
    day.  Since she is so curious, she has to poke around everywhere
    resulting in her getting entrapped.  Two or three times in the past
    she has gotten locked in my neighbors garage.  One time my neighbor
    went away for the weekend and she was locked inside.  Fortunately,
    he leaves a key under his flower bed, and we were able to free Niki.
    We knew she was in there, because my hasband called out her name,
    as he walked around, and heard her meowing from inside.
    
    Are any of your neighbors away for school vacation week?  Maybe
    she locked in their garage or apartment.  Who knows..she could of
    sneaked in when they walked or drove out.  It's worth a try.
    
    Barbara
    

Chancey still hasn't come home yet.  I am beginning to fear the worst,
    but trying to keep a positive all the same.
    
    I questioned some more people last night in the building across
    from me, and they said they hardly ever see Chancey over there since
    I took him in; however, he does stop by occassionally.  When he
    does, they admitted to letting him inside and feeding him, but he
    doesn't stay long because the woman is allergic.  They did mention
    that their little boy just loves him and Chaunc is great with kids;
    very good natured cat he is.
    
    Hopefully, someone has him inside and will respond to the fliers
    I am going to post tonight.
    
    /Roberta
    

    
    I realize this might sound kind of ludicrous... but another tactic
    for 'finding felines' is to just "listen".
    
    As you're making your rounds, make the high-pitched calls (or whatever
    you mentioned Chaunc responds to), and then just stand still for
    a few minutes and listen for a reply.  
    
    Four cats ago (when I had outdoor cats - never again..) this method
    worked for me several times.  The reason it has worked is because
    if they get caught or trapped somewhere and can't get out on their
    own, they will howl to a familiar sound, but may be barely audible
    so that's why you really have to keep your ears open as well as
    eyes peeled!
    
    As far as your initial concern about indoors vs. outdoors, I guess
    all of these replies are you answer huh?
    
    My new family, Winston and Alice, are both indoors always, and are
    happy, playful, very clean, and wonderfully healthy!
    
    Good luck with your baby, and stay optimistic.

    Do they always answer when they're trapped?  I'm thinking about
    the times one of mine has been in a cabinet, silent as a mouse. 
    Or the time one of my neighbors' was trapped in my cellar (some
    workmen had inadvertantly let him in from the outside).  neither
    one made a peep.  I found out Jasper was in the cellar only because
    I heard some scrabbling noises when he tried to dig out thru a
    ventilation window.  When I went down into the cellar and called
    him, he froze and didn't make a sound, even though I'm his aunt.
     He was really freaked out from being locked up for almost 24 hours.
    
    So, a good idea to open up places and check really well, I think.

    I have not had a chance to read the previous 24 replys but wanted
    to state my case for indoor life for cats.
    
    Over the years, I have had many cats.  The youngest one I every
    lost died from cancer at the age of 12.  I had one cat live to be
    19 and my present "baby" is 20.  I truly believe my cats have lived
    long and healthy lives because they are indoor cats.  They were
    allowed to go outdoors only when I was there to supervise, never
    alone.  You can have houseplants that are not harmful to them that
    will give them the feeling of the outdoors.
    
    I have often wonder if I have been fair to them but when I see how
    what happy, healthy lives they've had, I know I did the right thing.
    
    -- Elizabeth

Read a report approx 8 years ago that stayed in my brain all this time:

Average life span of INDOOR/OUTDOOR cat was 1/3 as much as average
life span of INDOOR ONLY cat.  I know cats like going outside, but I
think it's worth it to keep them in ALL THE TIME if you're talking
about 2/3 of the expected life span of the animal.  It comes down
to a very personal choice - I choose to keep them around as long
as possible.  I've adopted cats that were strays and they asked to
go out for a few months, but when refused access to the outdoors,
they forgot about it after awhile.  I keep toys, cat trees, and other
cats around as companions, and I play with my cats every day....
they don't go out to get in fights, run over, attacked by children
or dogs or neighbors who hate cats, or exposed to cats with diseases
that can kill them.

    I realize there are many people with indoor/outdoor cats, and many
    happy i/o cats.  Over many years of many cats, my family and I have
    migrated to indoor-only cats.  Our motivation has been our experiences
    (and personal heartbreaks) with the following risks that all i/o
    cats are exposed to:
    
    - increased exposure to disease
    - danger and death from cars, dogs, other animals, unfriendly people
      (what bothers me even more than death is suffering)
    - chemical poisoning
    - fleas
    - getting lost, trapped, entrapped, hurt
    - disappearing and never returning
    - cat fights
    - shorter life spans
    - more injuries from all of the above, and the increased vet costs
      that result
    
    My indoor-only cats (including a recently adopted stray) have not
    seemed to be one bit less happy with their restricted, but enriched
    lives.  There may be some adjustment problems, but none that can't
    be worked out over time.  I believe we can make up with love and
    affection for any "freedom" our cat friends may give up.
    
    Just my opinion and thoughts.

    
    RE.11
    
    Roberta,  any update on Chauncy?
    
    Fran

    I am going to start a new note regarding Chauncey's status for all
    those interested.
    
    /Roberta
    

    Our two cats are indoor/outdoor, and I find it hard to imagine them
    any other way (this idea of the "indoor only cat" is, I think, very
    unusual here in England.  I know a lot of cat owners, and know none
    who confine their cat to an indoor life).  They LOVE running around
    in the garden, and up and down the trees.  Until they were old enough
    to go out, and had a catflap, I hated leaving them by themselves,
    because the bad toilet habits of one of them meant we often had
    to confine them to one room, and this seemed very unfair.  (Fortunately
    her toilet habits are MUCH better now, so they have more freedom
    altogether).
    
    My feelings about the indoor/outdoor life being best for a happy
    cat were reinforced last night when we had to keep them both in
    in preparation for them to be spayed and neutered today.  They hated
    it, and were very frustrated at being kept in.  I kept being woken
    in the night by the pair of them banging their heads against the
    locked cat flap; it broke my heart not to let them out to play.
    
    I know that letting them out means they are more likely to catch
    diseases, get run over, or go missing, but I far prefer to give
    them freedom and a natural existence than keep them penned in because
    of my worries over these ifs and buts.  If they were kept indoors,
    that would (in my opinion, of course) DEFINITELY detract from their
    happiness.
    
    Ali
    
    PS:  In addition, this morning I woke to find my knitting unravelled
         all over the house.  It's a long time since I've had to be
    	 THAT careful about where I put it :*)

    I don't think there is a 'right' or 'wrong' to this question but
    I agree with -1.  It's very unusual to find 'indoor only' cats in
    the UK.
    
    My two are indoor/outdoor for roughly the same reasons as in -1,
    I feel that the life is more natural.  Obviously I worry about what
    they are up to, panic when they are late for meals, etc. but feel
    that they would miss so much if confined to the house.
    
    Another big pleasure is to walk round the garden with them in the
    evening.  Tarot enjoys smelling the flowers, while Isis keeps up
    a constant chatter about how we could 'improve' the garden..bird
    table over there with cat access etc, etc.
    

    
    Since I am a naturally lazy person and I don't like to pick up after
    myself, having two indoor-only cats forces me to make sure things
    are put away when not being used.  I learned my lesson after two
    'incidents' with Sunny swallowing yarn one time and a needle and
    thread the second time.  She survived both just fine, but now I
    make absolutely certain there is nothing laying around that could
    harm her if swallowed.  My indoor kitties keep me in check!  

    I also agree that "indoor only" cats are VERY unusual in the
    UK.  In fact, until I started to read this notes file I did not
    even realise that such a thing existed.  Because I had never 
    heard of it before, I was horrified at first.  I would hate to 
    be kept indoors in case I got run over, caught a nasty illness,
    or met an unpleasant character.  I would prefer a short 
    happy life to a long imprisoned one.  
    
    However, before you all tell me off - the more I read the more I 
    realised that there is no right or wrong to this question.  The
    owners must do what they feel is right for their cat and in their
    circumstances.  For example, if we had rabies in this country,
    maybe we would have more indoor cats.  I don't think it is cruel
    to keep your cats indoor, or cruel to let them choose for
    themselves.  I know we all love our cats in this notes file and
    we must do what we feel is right for them.   
    
    Lizzie had a close encounter with a car earlier this year, but 
    no-one could describe his joy when he was finally allowed out
    again after six weeks indoors.  I wouldn't take that away from 
    him.  BUT, I do worry and I do keep an eye on him.  Luckily he
    seems to have learnt his lesson and stays away from the road
    now.  
    
    I think we should all respect each other as loving cat owners.
    
    April 

    Well, I think everybody loves their animals and being protective
    is  human nature. I, for one, believe that the  pets that we keep
    don't really belong to us, human beings.  These cats are just sharing
    this planet with us, and we happen to be more "intelligent" and can
    manage to feed them and take care of them.  
    
    I think, as pet owners, we are obliged to take good care of our 
    animals in sickness and in  health. However, I don't think we should
    alter mother nature too much by keeping these cats indoors unless 
    it's absolutely necessary. Cats have the natural instinct to chase 
    and hunt birds and rodents.
    
    Yes, it may be true that indoor cats live longer and the owners
    don't have to deal with the trauma of a dead pet as often, but
    if I were a cat, I would rather live a short but exciting life than
    a long boring one. 
    
    I do believe in destiny, as far as life and death is concerned.  
    When your time is up, that's it. I understand that this is very hard 
    on us pet lovers, because we, humans, do have some control over their 
    environment and we don't want them to get hurt. 
    
    Raising pets is very much like raising kids, you love them
    so much, but you have to stand in their shoes ( and paws) and see
    the world from their point of view. It's hard to let go. Letting
    the cats out is just like giving your car keys to your 16 year-old,
    but some of us decide to take a chance and let the cats live a
    more interesting life (so we think!!!).  
    
    There is no right or wrong in this matter. Do whatever you think
    is best for your pets and whatever you think you can handle emotionally.
    

    re: .34
    
    Please don't assume that an indoor cat leads a long and boring life.
    My two indoor only cats appear to be very happy and amused with
    indoor life.  They have tons of human attention lavished upon them
    (probably more than an outside cat because they are always in with
    me rather than out chasing rodents)!
    
    In my life I have had close contact with 6 different cats, 5 who
    were indoor only and 1 that was indoor/outdoor.  The 5 indoor cats
    never tried to go out, but I'll tell you the 1 outdoor cat always
    wanted to come in (I think he would have prefered to be an indoor
    only cat living the life of luxury). After seeing this I had no
    reservations about keeping my two as indoor cats.
    
    Jeanne, Cali and Sam
    

    There is a difference between indoor/outdoor and TOTALLY outdoors.
    
    My two can come in when they want and go out when they want.  I
    only intervene when I feel the time is unsafe or the weather
    conditions are inclement.  I think of my "boys" as indoor cats that
    go out sometimes.  And most of the time, they prefer to be inside.
    
    .34 couldn't have said it better.  It is our own choice and no one
    should question it unless there is a valid reason to do so.
      

    r.35  When I said letting the cats go outside, I meant they have
    a pet door where they can come and go at will.  When I referred
    to indoor cats, I meant those that don't go out at all.  I wasn't 
    assuming that all indoor cats lead a boring life, I was just saying that if
    I were a cat that knew about the outdoors, I would find a completely
    indoor life boring. But again, if I never knew what the outside
    is like, I'd probably never miss it.  I can't say much about indoor
    cats because my cats go outside a lot, usually at night when it's
    nice and quiet. They are happy, clean, well fed, in good health and
    shape, no fleas, no ears mites, no parasites, affectionate
    (mainly because they are siamese) and very obedient. I think they
    have the best of both worlds, the warmth and security of a home
    and the freedom to roam and I think they know it too.... 

    This is a kind of .PS to the last reply.
    I am not saying anything negative about indoor cats and their owners,
    I am just presenting my point of view. At lot of times when poeple
    take in a pet, they don't try to understand the pets instinctive
    needs. For example, dogs are pack animals, they like to live to
    with other dogs or humans, so are wolves. Cats are loners more
    or less and they love to hunt. As far as I know, dogs have been
    domesticated a lot more successfully than cats because of their
    packing instincts. Dogs consider their owners the head of the
    pack. But cats are different, they'll deal with humans on their
    own terms!!! It's more like "you humans, take it or leave it,
    I can survive without you"!!!  We can't expect cats to be as 
    affectionate and loyal as dogs or expect dogs to be as independent 
    as cats. 
    

    re .38
    
    No offense taken.  I know you weren't attacking anyone and I hope
    my note didn't seem like I was attacking anyone.  I guess that I
    was just a bit surprised to think that someone thought that an indoor
    only life could possibly be boring since my cats seem so happy!
     It just goes to show how difficult it can be to see the other side
    of the coin sometimes.  This indoor/outdoor business is certainly
    a matter of personal choice and I'm sure we all do what we feel
    is best for our furry friends!!
    
    
    Jeanne, Cali and Sam
    
    

My opinions on indoor/outdoor have already been expressed:

However, I do have a comment about the statement concerning cat's
ability to "bond" closely with the humans around them.....

Cats, according to behaviorists, behave to their humans as
a kitten does to the mother cat - they do depend on us and suffer
when they get lost.  The nature of the "wild" cats is not the same
as the nature of the domesticated feline - we have at least a million
years of selective breeding involved in the relationship between humans
and domestic felines...simply because we (mankind) kept the friendly
and dependent felines alive when resources were limited while their
more independent brethern died off.  Cats do bond quite closely to
one or more humans if given the chance - and have strong instincts
to seek out that bond.  They also bond into "tribal" units when encouraged
to, as when we have more than one cat as a companion.  It is a fallacy
that cats are not loving and affectionate.  The real indicator is
intelligence - some cats are smarter than others and the smarter ones
are the more overtly affectionate.

RE: < Note 1114.40 by DOOBER::WILDE "Time and Tide wait for Norman" >

> It is a fallacy
> that cats are not loving and affectionate.  The real indicator is
> intelligence - some cats are smarter than others and the smarter ones
> are the more overtly affectionate.

I've never heard this before in what I've read on cat behavior (which
isn't all that extensive).  Could you cite some sources or provide
some more explanation?  It's true in the case of my cats that the
smarter cat is more affectionate, but I never considered that those
traits would be correlated.

Pam

> I've never heard this before in what I've read on cat behavior (which
> isn't all that extensive).  Could you cite some sources or provide
> some more explanation?  It's true in the case of my cats that the
> smarter cat is more affectionate, but I never considered that those
> traits would be correlated.

Pam,

My sources include some excellent programs that have run on
one of the 5 educational T.V. channels that I get on my T.V. - in
particular, a series on intelligence in cats and dogs that ran approx.
4 years ago on Sunday afternoons...and a collection of books at home.
I have approx. 15 books on animal behavior/cat/dog behavior/training.
I will try to dig up the exact title for the discussion of intelligence/
affection when I get some time.  Meanwhile, I strongly suggest you
raid the local library for books on animal/cat behavior - fascinating reading
and really illuminating to explain WHY your cat does what he/she does
as well as how to stop undesirable behavior.  I also recommend frequent
viewing of "The Discovery Channel" on T.V. - I've discovered lots about
cats and dogs from this.

As you say, the smarter of my and my roommate's four are the two most
affectionate - the most shy and alo (which I adore just as much, by
the way) is also my slowest learner and the least able to determine
what is really a threat and what is simply something new....which leads
me to belive what I've read and seen.  It doesn't matter, I still love
him just as much anyway!

    Intelligent = affectionate!!!
    Pretty amazing... I do have an ultra affectionate cat that is at
    times too smart for his own good, and a shy, slower cat that's
    less loving...
    
    re. 42
    I'm interested in this "The Discovery Channel". Is this a paid
    cable channel? I don't remember that as an option for my area.
    Where do you live?

>    re. 42
>    I'm interested in this "The Discovery Channel". Is this a paid
>    cable channel? I don't remember that as an option for my area.
>    Where do you live?

San Jose, Ca. - Yes, the discovery channel comes over our cable - it's
the only "pay T.V." that I think is worth it....lots of nifty programs
about nature, man, the brain, etc.  I've learned alot.

    Candia, NH - I have discovery also with United Cable.  Nice programs
    
    E.T.

    re. -1
    
    I didn't know you lived in San Jose!  Are you working in Santa Clara?
    
    Jo

>    I didn't know you lived in San Jose!  Are you working in Santa Clara?
    
Yes, but I am "rented out" by DIGITAL to design and write application
software at customer sites, so I'm not around for months at a time.....
When "home" (read: not making money for DIGITAL) I'm currently in BLDG 3,
FLOOR 3 - however, we've been warned that will change soon...sigh...have
DBMS books, will travel...

			8^} D

    We should get together sometime!  I am in SC1 on the first floor.
    We could have our own picture swap.
    
    Jo

>    We should get together sometime!  I am in SC1 on the first floor.
>    We could have our own picture swap.
   
Jo,

This project is scheduled to be finished in Feb. '89 - after that,
maybe we can get the Western Area cat people together for dinner....

					D

    Dian,
    
>    This project is scheduled to be finished in Feb. '89 - after that,
>    maybe we can get the Western Area cat people together for dinner....
     
    GGGRREEEAATTT  idea!!!!
    
    See you then, (probably sooner since your cube is around the corner
    from mine  ;-)!!
    
    Jill