Conference misery::feline_v1

    3-1/2 years back, Maggie began to drink tons & tons of water [she
    was 9 years old at the time].  It was hard to gauge exactly how
    much because her favourite water bowl was the bathroom sink which
    wasn't entirely watertight and because Teddy [the dog] could get
    to her big water dish in the cellar, but when I saw her sucking
    on the soaker-hose I knew she was mightily thirsty [she would NEVER
    sacrifice her dignity to that extent if whe wasn't frantic]
    
    Not to be an alarmist, but when I took her in for tests, she found
    to have 40% kidney failure.  This was a cat who'd had her complete
    yearly check-up 6 weeks previously and had been fine -- just a little
    old. [She's fine now on her special diet, but her kidneys are only
    at 60%]
    
    I would advise your friend to get Casey in now.  As for letting
    things sort of slide with older cats -- GRRR! -- I'd find another
    vet so fast...........
    
      Annie

    I definitely agree with Annie about going to another vet.  If I
    had let my Jingle's problem go on (great water consumption), and
    if I did not have such a good vet, Jingle would have long ago gone
    to kitty heaven.  At 15 we found out that Jing had diabetes, he
    was put on 2 shots of insulin per day and a kitty diabetic diet.
    At 19, he is still going strong and will continue to do so with
    good care.
    
    Please convince Casey's mom to get him to another vet SOON.
    
    Elizabeth

    It does sound as if the cat is experiencing a reduced kidney function.
    In the absence of a fever, it may well be reasonable to assume that
    it is the normal reduction in kidney function that is present in
    older cats.  If it is partial kidney failure due to the kitty's
    advanced years (and I _do_ suggest another doctor look at the kitty),
    don't panick.  My Missy drank nearly a quart of water a day (and
    peed that much too - Yuck!) from age 15 to age 20.
    
    Marion

    Kate is taking Casey in this afternoon, to _my_ (ah, well, to Sweetie's
    and Holly's) vet, so I'll let you know what happens.  Thanks for
    the encouraging stories.
    

    Cassie is 20 years old and is sooo skinny.  The vet says that her
    heart and lungs are in good shape but her kidneys are going.  At
    20 I didn't think there was much that could be done for this condition.
    She doesn't drink a lot of water.  Do you think at her advanced
    age I should get another vet opinion?  She's my baby but there is
    a time we all have to let go.  I'm asking here because of the water
    question.  Her kidneys are going but she doesn't drink that much
    water.  If I understand the other notes she should be.
    

    Re: .5
    
    Casey is really skinny, but he has been for years.  What did the
    vet say was happening, exactly?  What effect does lowered kidney
    function have, etc.?  I really trust Sweetie's and Holly's vet to
    know and discuss with me all the alternative treatments for things,
    so I don't really know what to tell you.  If you feel that you may
    not have as much info as you need, perhaps a second opinion would
    be a good thing to do.  20 is venerable, but I've heard of longer-lived
    pusses than that.  Please let us know what you decide.
    

    re.5
    
    If your vet seems satisfied with the cat's condition and you have
    had good luck with your vet, I wouldn't get too concerned.  If she's
    acting abnormally for her and your vet is not concerned, I'd get
    a second opinion.
    
    Maggie [re.1] suddenly began drinking _excessively_.  The kidney failure
    she experienced was the result of an infection that got out of hand.
    In the six weeks between her check-up and my taking her in, her
    kidneys went from 90% efficiency to 60% -- far too rapid a decline
    for a healthy 9-year-old cat.
    
    At 20, one would expect the kidneys to be going.  Just as with people
    I would watch for a drastic change in her drinking habits; and,
    just as with people, the older the less drastic the change would
    need to be to indicate possible trouble.
    
      Annie

    Kate says that Casey's test results will be back Thursday;
    I'll let you know what happens.
    

    RE:   .5
    
    The nice thing about kittys is that they are not nearly as stupid
    as humans.  They tend to listen to what their bodies are saying,
    and then acting upon that info.  That is why a cat will drink more
    water if that is what is needed to compensate for reduced kidney
    function.  My guess is that your kitty is drinking enough water
    to deal with a failing kidney.  If the cat needed to drink more water,
    s/he would.  Missy lived for nearly a year and a half with less
    than 10% kidney function.
    
    Marion
    

    As everyone's said, a decreased kidney function is to
    be expected in the older cat.  There is something you
    can do alleviate this somewhat.  Hill's makes a special
    food specifically for cats with decreased kidney function.
    It's called Hill's Prescription K/D.  You might want to
    discuss the benefits of this diet with your vet.
    
    Donna

    Casey has 15% functioning of his kidneys.  He is in at the vet's
    until tomorrow so they can flush out his system, and then he goes
    home and on a special diet.  Kate couldn't
    being herself to ask yet what this means in terms of his future.           
    I have passed along your encouraging stories.
    

    Karen,
    
    There is tremendous redundancy in the kidneys and 10% of the human
    kidney can usually maintain function.  Casey does not have the backup
    capacity of fully functioning kidneys so he can't handle overloads.
    The thirst is caused by the need to dilute things which would not
    normally be excreted in the urine.  The protein load for certain
    proteins in his diet will have to be reduced to avoid stressing
    the remaining kidney function.
    
    Frank

    Casey gets to come home in a few hours.  The vet is doing another
    test (results will be back Monday), to see how well the treatment
    he has been undergoing has worked.  He is eating the special food
    that will help.
    

    Semi-good news about Casey:
    
    He came home Friday evening, and seemed his usual self.  Then Saturday,
    panic ensued because he spent all day without eating or drinking,
    and mostly just curled up.  Off to the emergency clinic, where he
    got a shot of fluid.  He's been doing quite a bit better since,
    reasonably active, although not up to his previous level.  Drinks
    somewhat less water than the entire dish per 24 hours he was going
    thru before, perhaps this is due to the change of diet.
    
    So, his mom is a bit calmer.  I've posted all this detail in case
    it is useful to someone else in the future.
    

    A lot of good info here ........ I've been curious about one of
    my cats' (Claws) consumption of the H20. Claws has been drinking
    quite a bit of water the last few months (usually of the running
    tap water variety). One of my roommates said she heard cats will
    drink more water if they have an ear infection (mites). Interesting,
    I thought, so I took Claws to the vet and had her "inspected".
    
    Sure enough, ear mites. I treated her ears for 3 weeks as remedied.
    The vet said Claws was in excellent health otherwise and I shouldn't
    be concerned about her water consumption. I will now more closely
    estimate what her H20 consumption rate is and inform the vet, just
    in case there IS some reason to be concerned. But she is as normal
    and healthy as she has ever been, so it appears she just likes to
    drink H20.
    
    Thanks for the info. and good luck to all you water-conscious friends.
    
                                            Marvin

    My late kitty had developed an enormous thirst -- a bowl a day,
    compared to a bowl a month all her life. She also was not digesting
    food well and her appetite was off. What the vet found was she had
    a hyperactive thyroid.
    
    This is a very common problem in older cats (mine was 15), but a
    very easily treated problem with medication. Sometimes surgery may
    be necessary, but is very riskfree. I had brought my cat to our
    regular vet, who referred us to Tufts Vet School in North Grafton.
    Tufts is excellent (albeit expensive), and were super to us. 
    
    I'd try to convince your friend to either see the vet you use, or
    go to Tufts. As in humans, untreated health problems can lead to
    complications.
    
    Unfortunately, my kitty also had intestinal cancer and died after
    about 6 months. It was the worst thing I'd ever been through. 
    
    That was April of last year. I'm now the proud Mom of 2 pure bred
    (or should it be purr bread?) Himalayan kittens, plus have inherited
    my sisters black domestic short hair adult male.
    
    Oops -- just noticed the note header on your note. Guess Tufts
    University would be too much of a trek! Regardless, the problem
    should be checked out -- and before too late.
    
    Cynthia
    

    Casey was put to sleep this afternoon.  He had been on a special
    diet and so on since his problem was diagnosed, but he got
    progressively thinner and weaker.  He hadn't eaten since Saturday,
    and on Sunday he had a convulsion.                    
    

re: < Note 1013.2 by CYGNUS::KENNEY >
    "At 15 we found out that Jing had diabetes, he
    was put on 2 shots of insulin per day and a kitty diabetic diet.
    At 19, he is still going strong and will continue to do so with
    good care."
    
    

    Dear Elizabeth:

    My little Mocha is only 3 years old and the vet thinks she may
    have diabetes.  I was wondering if you could answer a few questions
    for me:

     	o  Do you have another cat besides Jing?  If so, how do you control
	   his dietary intake and get daily "samples"?

	o  Is insulin expensive?  Does Jing resent his daily shots?  Are
	   you ever afraid you'll give him the wrong doseage?

	o  Do you think you could picture yourself giving Jing insulin 
	   therapy for 15+ years had he been diagnosed at age 3?

	o  What do you do when you go away on vacation?  Or stay overnight
	   out of town?

     These are just a few of the many questions that are going through my head
     while I wait for the final diagnosis of Mocha's condition.  She's the first
     pet I ever had and I love her dearly.

     If anyone else can share any thoughts on the subject it would be greatly
     appreciated!

     ann

    Hi Ann,

    Sorry to hear that Mocha may be diabetic, but if she is, don't panic.
    It *is* something you can live with. You are wise to try to find out in 
    advance what her care will entail. With some idea of what's in store
    you can decide if you can or want to do it. It may require some changes 
    in your lifestyle and habits, but I believe it is possible to work out 
    solutions that are agreeable to both you and your cat.

    I have a diabetic cat, Junie, who was diagnosed with diabetes over 
    1 1/2 years ago, just before he turned 18. I'm not the author of 1013.2 
    but I'd like to try to answer your questions from the point of view of 
    my experience. If someone out there has a younger diabetic cat -- or 
    just different experiences -- they'd like to share, it would be helpful 
    for you to have a comparison and a more balanced view. Junie is more of 
    a "worst case" example, so don't let me scare you; I think a younger cat 
    would be easier to treat. 

    >  	o  Do you have another cat besides Jing?  If so, how do you control
    >	   his dietary intake and get daily "samples"?

    Junie must have food available all the time, so as to avoid hypoglyce- 
    mia (low blood sugar). Keeping my four other cats out of Junie's food 
    dish is a challenge. When I'm not home or asleep at night, Junie has 
    to stay in his room by himself. (I bought a screen door for his room 
    so he wouldn't be too isoloated from the other cats, and I can easily 
    hear him at night if he cries.) When I'm home and awake he has the run
    of the house and I watch for when I think he wants food. I feed him at 
    the same time as the other cats, but he nibbles all day long where they 
    inhale everything in minutes. When he walks away to take one of his 
    many naps I put the dish away and watch for when he appears to want 
    food again. He'll tell me if he wants to eat if I don't notice first. 

    Originally, the vet told me to use a litterbox without litter to get
    urine samples, but it was such a pain to clean the box every time he
    used it (even using two boxes) that I found a better way. It helps 
    that Junie is so accomodating. Since he drinks a lot of water he uses 
    the litterbox a lot. Whenever I notice him heading for the litterbox, 
    I grab an old cup I keep handy and stick it underneath him when he 
    squats to pee. Instant urine sample! And easy to clean up afterwards.

    I don't check his urine on a daily basis any more because he is pretty 
    stable and I have it all down to a system. The vet does ask, though, 
    if I've checked his urine, so I try to do it at least occasionally, 
    and I do it if Junie is not acting normally (for example, not eating 
    well).

    >	o  Is insulin expensive?  

    No. A little, itsy-bitsy bottle costs about $6-$7 and lasts for over a
    year (that's based on giving two units of insulin a day). The Keto-
    diastix strips (for checking the urine) cost between $6.50 and $7.50
    (depending on where you buy them) for 50 (I think that is the quantity).
    The insulin syringes cost about $18 for 100, which is almost a two-month
    supply (based on two shots a day). 

    You should also keep Karo syrup on hand and ask the vet for a syringe 
    for it. This is important in case of low blood sugar. 

    >  Does Jing resent his daily shots?  

    Junie does not mind his shots; he sits very still for them and will 
    often purr. I *know* he knows he needs them. If I'm busy doing something 
    at 8:00 he'll often come find me and tell me it's time for his shot. 

    >Are you ever afraid you'll give him the wrong doseage?

    The dosage doesn't vary from day to day so that's not a concern.
    Junie gets one unit of insulin at 8:00 am and another single unit at 
    8:00 pm. He *never* gets more. We may skip a shot altogether if he's
    weak (has low blood sugar due to stress or not eating). This is where
    checking the urine is useful. It is not harmful for his blood sugar to
    be a little higher, but if it drops too low, he's in big trouble.
    A small amount of Karo syrup will quickly remedy low blood sugar.

    The amount of insulin you give is something your vet will keep an eye 
    on with you. Junie goes to the vet once a month ($10 for the visit) to 
    have his blood sugar level checked to make sure that that amount of 
    insulin is still right for him.

    >	o  Do you think you could picture yourself giving Jing insulin 
    >	   therapy for 15+ years had he been diagnosed at age 3?

    When Junie was first diagnosed with diabetes at age 17, I really didn't
    expect him to last too long and was amazed and delighted as the months
    passed. His father had also been diagnosed as having diabetes 4 years 
    earlier; he spent a week at the animal hospital getting stabilized 
    on insulin, but died before he came home. I've had Junie since birth 
    (his, not mine) and there was no question in my mind that I would do 
    whatever was necessary to keep Junie alive as long as he was enjoying
    life. Junie has been diabetic now for over a year and a half, and I 
    will still do whatever is necessary as long as he is enjoying life.

    Having been through this with Junie and knowing what to expect, if I 
    had a 3-year-old cat develop diabetes, I would most likely do it again. 
    My cats are very important to me.

    >	o  What do you do when you go away on vacation?  Or stay overnight
	   out of town?

    Have to admit that I haven't been on vacation since Junie developed 
    diabetes. Considering his age, his condition, and my being an over-
    protective mother, I'd be afraid he'd stop eating if I left him for too 
    long. (He's surprised me before, though.) I've boarded him overnight at 
    the vets a couple of times when I've absolutely had to, and he's done 
    very well. They take very good care of him, especially one technician 
    who has gone out of her way to baby him. 

    If I had a young diabetic cat who was a predictable eater, I would try 
    to line up someone who could give him shots in my absence. I'd hire a 
    live-in cat-sitter experienced with feline diabetes when I went away 
    on vacation or board him at the vet's. (Notice how I talk like money 
    is no object. :-) 

    One other thing: before Junie came home from his hospital stay, the
    vet advised me to draw up and keep a daily chart showing the amount 
    and time of insulin shots, the urine sample reading, time it was taken, 
    amount of food given and amount eaten. The information is handy if I 
    need it for a vet visit, and it's a reminder for myself.

    I'm sure you have a lot to think about and probably still have lots of
    questions. Please feel free to call me or send mail if you want to talk
    offline.

    When will you know about Mocha? Please let us know how she does.
    Good luck!

    Linda 
    BCSE::GOGOLIN
    DTN 381-0710

    re:19 
          
    You are a very caring person and you will go to kitty heaven!
    
    E.T.

    Re: .20

    Well, I sure could use a few points in my favor! :-)

    I love all my cats and, as their "mother", feel I owe them the best 
    care I can give. Sometimes I wonder if I don't overdo it, though.

    Junie and I have a special attachment, I guess because we've known
    each other since he was born. If you could see the adoring way he
    looks at me sometimes..... I really believe that if Junie were the
    human and I were the cat, he do it for me.

    Linda

    Linda, it's those "looks" that really gettcha!  When I have
    Katenka with me for a show weekend, and she finds herself in
    a new and strange situtation, she will look up at me with a
    look of trust that would melt an ice cube!  
     
    It sounds to me that you are "doing it" not over doing it!
    
    E.T.

I HAVE THE MOST WONDERFUL NEWS!!!  MOCHA IS NOT DIABETIC AFTER ALL!!!!!

Of course, we don't know yet what caused the high blood sugar level (270 at
its highest point) or the incidence of sugar in her urine... It has totally
stumped my vet but he's just glad she's recovering from this "mystery"
attack.  After the 3rd series of blood glucose tests, he was ready to diagnose
it as diabetes, since the appearance of sugar in Mocha's urine supported those
results, but he was confused by the fact that she was so young and didn't have
the classic early symptoms.  It appears that he held off with the diagnosis
until the 4th and last test results came back (I was a bit suspicious when he
told me that he used a different lab for the last set of tests, however, the
office urine testing results supported each series of blood test results).
According to his story, when he arrived at the office Tuesday morning, he 
noticed urine in her litter pan and, without even taking the time to take off
his coat he grabbed the sample and performed the test immediately!  The test
results were negative--no sugar, readings puurrrfectly NORMAL.   A phone call
to the lab confirmed those results with a blood glucose level of 84--quite
a difference from the level of 270 only two days before!  If you only could
have heard the enthusiasm in his voice when he called me at work, saying he
had GOOD NEWS, and telling me that we could pick her up and take her home 
that evening.

Mocha is getting back to her former self, although we have been given 
instructions to build her weight back up and even a bit more. After all
she was only 7 lbs a year ago and with this mystery attack got down to 
almost 6 pounds.  She's on Nutri-Cal, a high-calorie paste supplement 3X
a day, an antibiotic (she did have a slightly elevated white blood cell
count) that also contains an ingredient to help stimulate her appetite 2X
a day, and liquid vitamin and mineral supplement also twice a day.  And
she's eating like a PIG!  I have to keep her separated from my other little
furball, Coco, during the day so I can monitor her intake and out(?) and
I have to report-in to the vet every 3 days, with a follow-up in 10 days.

She's very happy to be home and is getting spoiled ROTTEN!  I'm paying
special attention to Coco, also, so that we don't have any jealousy-related
incidents.  So far, so good...  I'll keep you all informed on her progress.

I would like to say, however, that I am overwhelmed by the support and kindness
so many of you have shown me--I can't express how much of a comfort it has been.
I'm very thankful that everything turned out as it did, but if it had been
diabetes, I feel I would have had a much easier decision, based on the knowledge
and understanding of "parents" that have had experience with this condition.

I also would like to tell you that my vet was impressed when he heard about
our Feline Notes file, that we were able to share information, stories, and just
feelings with each other.  He was also wondering if I could post an 
announcement on his behalf that he was looking for a technician as well as an
office manager for his practice in Milford, NH.  I guess I'll have to ask our
moderator about that.

When and if we do find out just what caused Mocha's symptoms, I'll let you know.
Until then, it remains a mystery to all of us...

    OH WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
    	
    Good news is always so welcome!
    
    Mary-Michael

    I'm SO glad!! Thanks for letting us know the outcome -- I've had
    Mocha on my mind since I read your note.
    
    If you ever find out what caused the mystery attack, I'd be interested
    to know. 
    
    By the way, who is your vet? He sounds like a peach! Junie goes
    to Dr. DePrima at the Bedford (NH) Animal Hospital.
    
    Linda
    

    Yes, what Vet - my friend may be looking for that type of work.
    
    Please send me mail with the information.
    
    GREAT NEWS - I'm very happy for you! and your baby.  Your vet sounds
    very thorough!
    
    E.T.

    I just love reading good news first thing in the morning.  It just
    seems to make the day go so much better.  Thanks for sharing.
    
    Bernice

Re:  .25, .26, .27--

My vet's name is Dr. Phoenix and his practice is called Care Hospital for
Animals.  I guess it's quite a thriving practice.  I do like him a lot but
he has a reputation for being one of the most expensive in the area, and 
just about every time I bring in one of my cats for anything extensive (for
instance, Mocha's last mystery disease), I find that I've been overcharged
for one thing or another.  It's obvious that he can't find very good help
at least not the right person(s), and definately not someone who's computer-
literate (not litterate!) enough to run a PC.  I get receipts for Mocha that
have been entered under Coco's account, and they're constantly entering
vaccinations under the wrong entry, thus I am bound to miss one of their
innoculations one of these days...

Of course, the advantage is that he's less than a mile from home.  There are
other veternarians in the area, but I haven't heard good or bad about them.
If anyone has an opinion about a vet in the Milford area I'd be glad to hear
about him/her.

    The vet who put Pansy down is a rather old gent, whose significantly
    younger wife is his assistant.  We used him because he was available
    (his office is in his home) on Sunday.  We were not pleased with
    him, though his wife was very nice.  He was not as gentle as I would
    have liked, and we were particularly unhappy with the fact that
    he uses T41(?) to euthanize.  That obviates government requirements
    for licensing as a narcotics handler, so it is easier on him.  I would 
    rather go to someone who makes it easier on the animals. He is near
    MacDonalds on 101A (phone book says Elm Street?).  Dr. Meier of
    the Milford Vet Clinic.
    
    Gary