Conference misery::feline_v1

    
    Linda,
          I sympathize with what your feeling and I definitely don't
    want to know which notes you are referring to!!!!!  I guess I have
    been fortunate not to have come across them or else I would be prompted
    to write the same sort of message. 
    
          To anyone that falls into this category PLEASE if the animal
    does not have to be put to sleep please let us noters know as some-
    one else may want to give it a good home or at least find a temporary
    place for the cat until it can be adopted.  At the moment I've had
    an offer from a humane society that has a network of foster homes
    to place any animals I come across that are in need of temporary
    homes within their network.  So the next time anyone needs to get
    "rid" of their pet please don't rush to do such an irreversible
    cruel action when it does have a much better option.  That way both
    of you make out well.......
    
                                                           KIM
    

    Re: .2
    
    If I had room in my house for another cat, I would have adopted
    Pepper.
    

    Re: .2 and .4
    
    Karen,
    
    Don't take this note as a personal attack.  I did not write this
    in response to your note in 963.2.  
    
    If Pepper was wild when you met him why did you take him in?  Sure,
    animals DO bring happiness when THEY are happy.  You just don't
    bring an animal into your life and say "okay, make me happy".  
    Something must have happened to make him very unhappy for him to 
    piss all over the place.  You said that if Pepper was your other
    cat you wouldn't have had it done...why?  Because Pepper took off
    for periods of time and only USED you for food?  I have to wonder
    why he found more happiness elsewhere then with his "family". 
    
    
    This is just a mild flame.  I don't want this to get blown out of
    portion.
    
    Linda

    Re: .4
    
    I would have adopted Pepper because I love cats, and I believe that
    enough love, patience, and close attention to figuring out what is
    causing a problem will fix it.  I would have kept Pepper as an indoor
    cat;  it's not safe for cats here to go outdoors.  When Pep was
    indoors, he would have gotten slowly more used to me and more
    comfortable (I think this based on my experience and stories I've
    heard of other cats).  If he likes to go on the bathmat, okay --
    I have a friend whose cat clobbers the bathmat daily -- Libby just
    throws it in the washing machine and mops the floor.  I would have
    tried changing him over to a litter box by putting the bathmat
    in a litter box in the bathroom.  There are many things I could
    have tried.
    
    credentials, in case you don't believe me:  I adopted Holly when
    she was a little scrap with ear mites and a respiratory infection,
    and Sweetie when he had a crushed pelvis.  They were both $1000
    apiece pussycats by the time the dust settled.  I could have adopted
    a beautiful Siamese instead of Hollly, but I took Holly instead
    because I thought no one else would want her (now she is a bouncy,
    glossy coated little demon, full of energy).  When Holly had a bout
    of urinating on the bed (described in another note), I _never_
    considered giving her up.  My first cat Pussycat was basically feral
    when he came to live with me, and I spent the initial period with
    him "dug in" with all his claws and teeth on numerous occasions;
    he eventually became a source of great joy, and a wonderful cat for
    the eight years he lived with me.  I have gotten far more love and
    happiness from my cats than I have ever given them -- each one has
    been worth it a jillion times over.
                                             

    Re: .4
    
    I just have to add one more thing.  
    
    "We all have enough stress in our lives with out doing something
    that we know will add to it."
    
    Speaking out of my experience of last Saturday, that was the most
    stressfull thing I had to go thru in a LONG time.  Maybe because
    my cat, Child, was happy and in turn made us happy.  That's how
    it works.  It doesn't seem like you blinked an eye for poor Pepper.
    Let me guess...you gave Pepper to the vet and said, "Just take care
    of it".  
    
    I know most people out there reading this will not think I am crazy
    for saying this but... my mother, father and I cried all day Saturday.
    From the time my mom and I got in the car to way past the funeral.
    Yes, we bury our animals in the back yard.
    
    I know I go off the deep end when it comes to animals and I know
    a lot of other people are just like me.  When I am out taking a
    walk and see a squirrel that was hit by a car, I dig a grave and
    say a prayer.  
    
    Animals are innocent.  Who made you the judge.
    
    Linda

    > It doesn't seem like you blinked an eye for poor Pepper.
    > Let me guess...you gave Pepper to the vet and said, "Just take care
    > of it".  

    That is a cruel and viscious thing to say to a cat lover.  To defend
    your views by saying that she had no feelings when Pepper died is
    a slimy, underhanded tactic.
    
    I never thought anyone would accuse another FELINE noter of not caring
    for a cat because he/she disagrees on a subject.  You have reached
    new depths of the bottom of the barrel.
    
    Sharon
          

    Talk about your emotion raising notes...
    
    I agree, I cry even when it's not my cat directly (and some of the
    notes in this file could use up boxes of kleenex).  I also have
    a beautiful, purebred Maine Coon with this urination problem.
    
    Doc started out as a kitten drinking lots of water (LOTS of water!).
    We suspected a physical problem, so off to the vet.  Our vet checked
    everything he could think of, up to around $500 in blood tests and
    other tests. (and our vet gives us a discount for multi cat patients,
    25% off).  He recommended a specialist, so off we went.  The specialist
    reviewed the tests, kept Doc for observation, and could come to
    no conclusion.  Apparently, he is normal in all regards.  He sent
    the test results off to other specialists, and to the various research
    and med schools.  No answers.  Final conclusion was that Doc has
    a psychogenic disorder (in humans would be psychosomatic) that leads
    him to drink a lot.  Of course the side effect of drinking a lot
    is obvious.  Doc, who usually has good litter habits, will occasionally
    go on the bed, couch, rugs, bare wood floor, top of the refrigerator,
    potted plants, uns so weiter.  He is a indoor/outdoor cat because
    of this. And the litterboxes can be spotless, or dirty, or right
    next to where he is. it can be day/ night/hot/cold/your choice.
    
    My major hope is that I can get him a job as a barn type cat, as
    I won't be able to put him down (even though finding the "wet spot"
    at 3AM makes such thoughts occassionally tempting.
    
    Dave

    Re: .8
    
    Wait --  wait -- Karen already stated in one of her notes
    that they didn't love the cat.  And Linda is is real pain right
    now, grieving for her own cat.  Let's end this particular line of
    discussion.
    

This is an emotional topic for all concerned and I'm afraid the emotions
are getting a little out of hand.  In an effort to bring peace, could
everyone responding to this note make an extra effort to respect each
other and to discuss this issue with a little less heat?

Spoken as a moderator,
Pam

    
    The *issue* is whether or not to put a cat to sleep.  The *insult*
    was a snide remark made about the sensitivity of a person who is
    arguing the other side of the *issue*.
    
    I did not mean to sound harsh but I do feel that insulting someone
    does not prove your point.  I hope this *insult* does not become
    the *issue*...
    
    I can certainly understand the pain that the author of the insult
    is going through, but please understand that there are other views.
    
    Incidentally, I would not put a cat to sleep but I can understand
    a person's reasons sometimes and do not think that person is less
    sensitive or loving than I am because of their choice.
    
    Sharon_who_maybe_sounded_a_little_too_biting_but_please_forgive_me
    

    Re: .12
    
    Back to the issue.
                       
    Like I said in a past note, I did not want this to turn into 
    a FLAME and I was not singling out any one person.  Karen, you just
    took this so personally and this is such an emotional topic...well,
    say no more.
    
    The reason I started this topic is because I wanted to know some
    reasons for making a decision like this.  Is there anyone else that
    would like to continue the *topic*?  
    
    This has gotten a little out of hand and I am sorry if I hurt anyones
    feelings.
    
    
    

    
    O.K. I'm going to try to jump in here and use the best approach
    possible just so we don't start this up again.  I really don't think
    the original note was put in as an out right attack on anyone as
    she has already stated.  I can see where it bothers her and yes
    our different feelings and to what lenghts we will go for animals
    differs with each individual.  You'll find the same thing in canine
    it's a trait of all animal lovers because we all are so different.
    
    As it is a trait for all animal lovers it is also a trait of all
    animals.  All animals have such unique different personalities.
    And yes there are some that have their "problems".  This is not
    an attack on anyone at all..... but from my experience in matching
    animals to suitable homes I have found that somewhere there is ALWAYS
    a person that is matched for any particular animal.  I have met
    Karen Kolling through our beautiful mail system and I can vouch
    for her....  Yes she would have taken Pepper as I have the idea
    that there would have been quite a few then you would realize that
    would have taken Pepper in.  
    
    As far as putting in an ad saying does anyone want a cat that wets
    all over the house the correct way would have been wanted: home
    for Pepper who is a "problem" cat.  Needs special care and lots
    of love to bring the best out of her.  That way the ones that are
    out there who gravitate towards the problem animals that no one
    else wants would have called and would have taken her.  
    
    I do have a problem with the statement of:
    
    <Animals are kept as pets because we expect to get some happiness
    out of owning them.  Pepper didn't make anyone happy.>
    
    That is what you expect from your pet not obviously what others
    expect.  Everyone has their own expectations.  I also would have
    taken in Pepper as I find much more satisfaction out of taking one
    that no one else wants or wants to put up with.  I on the contrary
    want to give happiness to the animals that I own and make their
    lives wonderful.  If I get back happiness from them then fine it
    doesn't necessarily come with the package.  
    
    My point is everyone is different and please for future reference
    at least try to find a home for an unwanted animal no matter what
    you yourself think.  You may be surprised at the response you get
    from people that feel that the animal "needs" them.  
    
                                                              KIM

    Linda,
    
    I think we all have learned from this notes file.  Yes we are all
    different and our cats are all different.  Perhaps we have all learned
    that we should try our hardest for our little felines, adoption,
    tests, love and care before we turn to the 'end'.  But since you
    just had a loved one put to sleep I don't think this is the proper
    time for you to discuss this issue.. it can only bring you more
    sadness and pain and in turn you are bringing others sadness and
    pain by lashing out.  I think it would be better if we all tried to
    help you with that pain by telling you how we all dealt with the
    loss of our kitties.  Another topic could be started - any volunteers?
    
    Much sympathy,
    
    Suzanne

< Note 964.16 by NSG022::POIRIER "Suzanne and Mandy" >

 >   I think it would be better if we all tried to
 >   help you with that pain by telling you how we all dealt with the
 >   loss of our kitties.  Another topic could be started - any volunteers?
    
  This is already covered most recently in topic 842, and probably other 
  places as well.

Pam

    While I haven't, fortunately, had to make this decision myself,
    I can see circumstances in which I *might* choose to have a cat
    put to sleep rather than try to find another  home for it. An example
    that I've seen in the papers a few times might be an elderly person
    with some elderly cats; if the person can no longer look after them
    due to hospitalization, etc., it might be more of a comfort to the
    person to have the animals put down rather than give them away.
    No matter how carefully a prospective new owner is screened, there's
    always the chance that the animals would be unhappy or poorly cared
    for.
    
    I am not *recommending* this. Each situation has to be judged on its
    own merits. But there are so many homeless animals in need of shelter,
    and we can't give homes to all of them. Every one that is saved means
    another that must die... And it seems to me there are worse fates that
    could befall a cat than a painless injection at the vet's. If putting
    the cat to sleep would give the owner more peace of mind than a
    protracted search for a new home, perhaps it's best; heaven knows there
    are a lot of people whose idea of dealing with a problem cat is to dump
    it on the highway and drive away. 
    
    -b

    Re: .18
    
    "And it seems to me there are worse fates that could befall a cat
    than a painless injection at the vet's."

    It is NOT painless.  The animal does suffer, even tho it is only
    for a few seconds, it is NOT painless.
    
    

    Re: 0
    
    I don't think there are a lot of people out there who would put
    an animal to sleep due to the "problems" it may have..... A good
    example is my mother, who has had our Persian cat for 10 years..
    When we first got Chang, he was just a tiny little ball of fur,
    who came down with ring worms shortly after we got him.  This required
    a lot of time to be spent on him, giving him medicine and taking
    him to 3 different vets before they figured out what was wrong.
    About five years ago, he started urinating on the mats in the
    bathroom...my mother solved the problem by shutting the door.  That
    didn't stop him, he'd find another scatter rug to go on.  Also,
    going a couple times in the dryer on nice warm clothes.  He is 
    not a very loving kitty, he doesn't like to be held much and only
    lets you pat him once or twice and then he's gone.  NEVER
    did my mother say, maybe I should solve the problem by getting rid
    of him or putting him to sleep.  She does get upset that he does
    this, but she loves him too much to even think of not having him.
    
    I guess it depends on the person and the animal.
    
    Erin  
    
    
    

    Re .19:
    
    Oh, all right. "It seems to me there are worse fates that could befall a
    cat than a few seconds of distress at the vet's, followed by oblivion."
    (Worse fates could befall people, too, but that's a different
    conference...) 
    
    All I wanted to say was that I believe there are circumstances for
    which that may be the right choice, hard as it is. 

    -b

    Re: .2
    
    I'd have adopted him.  Laundering bathmats for a cat is not much
    different from laundering diapers for a human baby.
    
    Ande

    RE: .18  "It is NOT painless.  The animal does suffer, even tho
    it is only for a few seconds."
    
    I cannot bear to think that an injection to put a cat to sleep is
    painful.  I had to have Alex put to sleep last year when his cancer
    became so advanced that he couldn't survive without suffering, and I
    have to believe that I caused him no additional pain when I did this. 
    I even found a vet who would come to my house so I wouldn't have to add
    stress to Alex by taking him out in the car.  My heart is full of pain
    when I think that I may have caused him to suffer for his last second
    of life.  Can anyone clarify? 

    Re: .18/.23
    
    I worried when I read that too -- I had to have Pussycat put to
    sleep because of leukemia.  Can someone please enter the facts about
    this?
    

    Re: .19
    
    The pain associated with euthanesthia is the needle prick of the
    injection.  The agents used are fast acting barbituates with an
    anti-convulsant added.  The injection is given fairly slowly so
    the animal is sedated, taken to unconsciousness and then to complete
    central nervous system depression.  The anticonvulsant is added
    because a small percentage of animals develop convulsions when given
    barbituates and the anticonvulsant blocks the convulsions and their
    attendent pain.  The barbituates used are of the same type used
    to sedate and anesthetize human patient before and during surgery.
    
    I minored in pharmacology and have had knee surgery in which
    barbituates were used to put me under. I experienced no pain while
    falling asleep.
    
    Frank 

    All I know is when we put "the Child" to sleep he cried out his
    last words and struggled.  
    
    It tore me apart.
    
    Linda

    I read every reply to this note before throwing this one in.  I
    am not going to condone or condemn the fact of putting the cat to
    sleep.  I am just going to add a little story.
    
    Star is my daughter's cat.  She is a two year old white beauty.
    Star adores my daughter.  Lisa has had a rough year and has moved
    around alot.  She also lived with a `person' for a while that Star
    wasn't too happy about.  To vent her frustation of being cooped
    up in the washroom all day and also not seeing Lisa except for a
    few minutes, Star started wetting on the bed.  This went on for
    some time.  Her punishment was to be left in the wash room again.
    
    Lisa finally moved back home bringing Star with her.  I had two
    cats of my own and Star came into my home a terrified, threatened,
    frustrated cat.  She would let no-one near her and would lash out
    at the cats and humans whenever they got to close.  Poor Deja got
    the brunt of that.  She just wanted to let Star know she was welcome.
    Lisa would stay away for a few days with her friends, knowing that
    Star was in good hands and would pop in for a day or two.  Needless
    to say, Star went crazy while she was there.  When Lisa would leave
    for parts-unknown, Star would feel abandon.  Within twenty-four
    hours she would wet on MY bed (Lisa was sleeping in it when she
    was home).  The first time it happened I just scolded her.  The
    second time, I spanked her. The third time I really spanked her.
    Of course she was under the coverlet and the blankets at that moment
    so I knew I wouldn't hurt her.  Boy was she scared.  She was in
    the dark and didn't know what was happening.  Needless to say, she
    stopped wetting on my bed.  I also took precautions.  I kept my
    bedroom door closed during the day and put up a high gate during
    the evening.  I also gave Star back her kitty-box (HERS).  She didn't
    like using the one that the other cats used (that was THEIRS). 
    Star is now living with Lisa and Charles (what a love) and is a
    different cat.  When she got there she pulled the same routine.
    Charles did the same thing I did in the same order.  Star has mended
    her ways.  She has also turned back into the loving (alright, almost)
    cat that she was originally.  She knows that she is with Lisa and
    adores Charles.  Sometimes a cat is not happy and is doing things
    to tell you, you just aren't listening in their language.
    I now even get to pet and cuddle her without getting beat up.
    
    I do have a quick question about the original note.  The cat would
    be gone for days and months at a time.  Could the cat have had another
    home and yours was it's secondary?  I shudder to think that you
    put down a cat that someone else loved too.
    
    Sandi