Conference misery::feline_v1

    Does the breeder that you got her from know that you want to breed
    her?  I would ask the breeder for her ideas on the best age for
    breeding.  I know that my breed is slow to mature and it is typical
    for them to not come into heat until a year and a half.  But siamese
    may be different.
    
    Also, you might just be able to wait her out.  Most females will
    stop having heats in the winter and then start up again in the spring.
    
    It is not necessary to let a female have a litter before being spayed.
    There are those who consider it healthier for the cat not to have
    a litter first, but to go ahead and spay them when the time comes.
    
    Analyze your reasoning behind wanting to have a litter and there
    you will find your answer as to what to do.  Not only is her being
    in heat annoying to you, think of how she must feel.
    
    JoAnn
    .e are those who consider it to be healthier for 

    If I'm not mistaken, cats will go into perpetual heat (every month
    or so) until they are either spayed or bred.  Trying to remember
    back to when my 14-year-old Siamese was in heat....Mutu went into
    heat every 3-4 months, and was very vocal.  We *trained* her to
    yell in the back bedroom, away from us, and believe it or not, it
    worked.  I remember how her eyes used to get bigger and bigger,
    then she'd squeak, and run into the back bedroom and howl!  Our
    neighbors probably thought we were killing her!
    
    Do check with the breeder and your vet.  Even if you do find a male
    for her, she may not like him!  Siamese are like that...Good luck!
    
    J.
    

     
    In reply to .1 and .2
    
    I want Selina to have a litter because: 
    
    1.  I feel that I shouldn't take that opportunity away
        from her
    
    2.  I want to keep one or two kittens from the litter
        because I want more cats, however feel this is the
        best route instead of bringing in an outside cat.
    
    3.  I've always wanted to have a pet and enjoy the
        wonderful experience of kittyhood.
    
    I thank you for your input.  Points well taken.
    
    Have a wonderful holiday.
    
    
        Shelly
       (newest reader of FELINES)
    

    We-e-e-ll...
    
    It's your decision, of course, but the reasons you've listed do
    *not* seem to me to be worth the risks you're taking. 
    
    a. You will have to deal with what you have already discovered is
    a major nuisance - a calling Siamese. 
    
    b. There's always a chance that she will escape (Siamese are
    notoriously clever at ways to find a mate); aside from the fact
    that this could get her lost or killed, the kittens she would have
    from a random mating would be just like all the ones that are currently
    being put to sleep in shelters all around the area - so why not
    just pick one of them and save everybody the grief?
    
    c. Pregnancy is always risky, and there is a chance that something
    would go wrong. (Of course there's a chance that the spaying would
    go wrong, too, but if you're planning to have her spayed later anyway,
    it seems like you're asking for two risks instead of one.)
    
    While we can't say with any certainty what cats do and do not miss
    (check out the arguments about indoor vs. outdoor for some differences
    of opinion on that!), it's a fairly good guess that a cat will not
    spend its life pining because it didn't have a chance to reproduce.
    I certainly wouldn't let my cat have kittens just for the experience;
    only if I really wanted kittens from that particular cat, and if
    I could guarantee good homes for all the kittens (I've seen litters
    of as many as nine, though four seems more usual), would I even
    consider it.

    Again, the decision must be yours, and whatever you decide will
    be your determination of the best thing for your cat. All I can
    say is that we've had mother cats, cats who've been spayed after
    one litter, and cats who've been spayed after no litters, and while
    bad things could befall any of them, the spayed-with-no-litter cats
    have lived the longest and seemed the healthiest.
    
    -b

    Here are a couple more points to ponder while making your decision
    
    *A cat that is allowed to call continually without being mated can
     develop ovarian cysts.  This can eventually lead to sterility.
    
    *The flip side of this is that if you mate your cat too young she
     could have problems delivering her kittens.
    
    *Your cat will go through a personality change with motherhood.
     Spayed females make better companions.
    
    *You may have trouble finding a mate for your cat unless your breeder
     specified that your cat could be bred.  Most stud owners will stay
     away from unregistered females.  If your cat isn't registered,
     please just get another cat from the humane society.  There are
     lots of cats there already.
    
    *The joy of kittyhood can be less than joyous at times.  Complications
     can arise and your cat's life could be in danger.  Unless you know
     what to do you could loose your cat and the kittens, since there
     often isn't enough time to get to the vet.
                                      
    Please reconsider your decision to let her have kittens.  She will
    be much healthier and happier without the frustration of being in
    heat, and the possible complications involved in giving birth. 
    You will also benefit... you will have a much nicer companion, less
    annoyance since she won't be calling, and you'll save yourself quite
    a bit of money.
    
    JoAnn

    I, as a breeder myself, have to agree with the others.  I personally
    feel that it is much healthier for the female who is going to be
    spayed anyway to not have a litter of kittens.  Even worse, is an
    inexperienced owner with an inexperienced cat.  Have you ever had
    a cat thats had kittens before???   Many, many things can go wrong,
    most likely complications happen in the first litter.  
    
    Talk to the breeder you got the cat from.  If the breeder sold you
    the cat as a pet, there may be a real reason why the cat should
    not be bred.   
    
    I will always say, there are too many unwanted and unloved animals
    in the world.  The ONLY reason to breed a female should be to improve
    the breed.  Will breeding your siamese cat improve the siamese breed??
    
    Please consider all the points brought up and then let us know what
    you decide.  
    
    purrs
    cin
    

    	And yet another vote for having her spayed without a litter.
    As Cin said, they can be complications especially with first litters.
    
    	I believe you said this was your first pet?  Would you know
    how to hand raise the kittens if the mother died?  Would you know
    how to determine if the kittens need supplimental feedings?  Would
    you know what to do with a kitten that was rejected by the mother?
    
    	I've just sent to homes, four kittens that I bottle raised from
    the age of 5 days (!).  It's not easy!  It was a full time around
    the clock job for the first couple of weeks,  and then it backed
    off the just hectic.  I've had cats all my life, I've bottle-raised
    kittens and puppies before, I worked for a vet for two years and
    my vet is always commenting on what a joy it is to see such a
    knowledgable and responsible pet owner.   My vet was still pleased
    and amazed to see that those kittens had survived the first weekend.
    (From there it was down hill.)  The sad thing is that sometimes
    in spite of all you do, they die anyway.  One of the hardest things
    I'v ever had to do was sit with a puppy I was bottle raising and
    wait for him to die.  (My old vet said not to bother to bring him
    in.  That a) it would probably die before I got him there and b)
    the puppy was beyond feeling anything.  Even if he was out  of pain,
    I couldn't be sure of that and that 1/2 an hour to an hour of holding
    a dying puppy is something I'd not be a hurry to repeat!)
                             
    	Get a kitten or two from the shelter.  Especially if you get
    them while your kitty is still young they will get along fine.  (I
    should know, I started out with 2 and am now up to 6 cats.  They
    all get along fine.)
    
    tlh
    

    Might as well add my vote for acquiring vs breeding...
    
    As a breeder, I've suffered through motherless kittens feeding,
    kitten deaths (only one but that was bad enough), cats that literally
    could not give birth (didn't produce the chemical needed to induce
    labor), kittens the mother refused, milk toxicity, and on and on.
     Yes, raising kittens is fun, but it is not an easy game.  It requires
    work (trust me, 6 kittens at once is the equivalent of running the
    marathon, twice).
    
    Cats that stay in heat a lot can develop problems as well. Females
    may be neutered at a younger age than males (due to FUS problems
    later).
    
    Having kittens can also change your females personality... permanently.
    
    Do you and your kitty a favor... recuse her a playmate from your
    local animal shelter.
    
    Dave

    If you really want another kitten why not read note #397.  I have
    been trying to find a home for that little female for several weeks
    now with no luck.
    
    She really needs a home.  She is already six or so months old and
    past the "cutesy kitten stage".  I'm afraid we will not be able
    to find a home for her.
    
    Please decide to adopt a cat or kitten to keep your girl company.
    If (by some remote chance) you are interested in the kitten that
    I have, my DTN is 521-4402.
    
    JoAnn

    
    HI SHELLY,
    
    	I CAN REALLY SYMPATHIZE WITH YOU.  IF YOU ARE A NEW READER TO
    FELINE YOU WILL SOON LEARN THAT THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WHO ARE FELINE
    NOTERS SUPPORT NUTURING OR SPAYING.  I STILL BELIEVE ITS A MATTER
    OF PERSONAL CHOICE.  I HAVE A MOTHER CAT, WHO MAY SOMEDAY BE SPAYED.
    SHE IS PRESENTLY PREGNANT FOR HER SECOND LITTER.  I DO NOT ACTIVELY
    SEEK HOME FOR HER KITTENS, FRIENDS AND RELETIVES WILL ASK TO ADOPT
    ONE.  AND IF THEY DIDN'T, I WOULD KEEP THEM ALL!
    
    	I REALLY LOVE MY 'FIFI', AND HAVE KEPT ONE OF HER LAST KITTENS
    WHO WILL BE SPAYED AFTER CHRISTMAS.  I UNDERSTAND WHY YOU WANT ONE
    OF YOUR CATS KITTENS, IT'S REALLY LIKE ONE OF THE FAMILY.
    
    	I DON'T KNOW YOUR LIVING ENVIROMENT,EITHER, WHICH COULD MAKE
    A BIG DIFFERENCE.  IF YOU LIVE IN REAL POPULATED AREA THEN I WOULD
    PROBABLY HAVE TO AGREE WITH EVERYONE ELSE AND SAY GET HER SPAYED.
    HOWEVER, I DON'T THINK BY HAVING ONE LITTER OF KITTENS IS GOING
    TO HURT HER AT ALL.  THE ONLY DIFFERENCE I SAW IN FIFI, WAS THAT
    SHE SEEMED TO MATURE. SHE WAS AN EXCELLENT MOTHER AND I AM LOOKING
    FORWARD TO HER NEXT LITTER.
    
    DONNA B.
      

    At last, one who feels the same way I do.
    My husband and I are moving into our new home
    in January.  We will be living in a big new home 
    with over an acre of FENCED in property.  
    
    I have been reading what all the responses have
    been.  What I should have said is that Selina is
    my first cat that belongs to ME.  I have always
    had at least 2 cats in my home growing up.  My
    mom's cats have always had litters.  I do know
    what to do.  Maybe I didn't explain myself that
    well.
    
    I have decided to let Selina have ONE litter only.
    I have found a breeder.  After her litter, I will
    have her spayed. All the kittens have been asked for
    by my friends and relatives.  If they decide to change
    their minds, my husband and I will keep the kittens.
    
    After watching PBS on Sunday night, my huband wants
    more.  We watched the program on "CATS".  It was most
    informative and very interesting.
    
    I thank you for your opinion, Donna.  Have a wonderful
    holiday season.
    
    And thank you all for your replies.
    And to all the FELINE readers,  HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!!!
    
    Shelly

    Shelley,
    
    Good luck to you and to Selina and Happy Holidays also.
    
    JoAnn
    

    
    Shellely,
    
    I'm with you!  I love cats and kittens and I love breeding them.
    I don't have any problems finding homes for them.  I realize that
    there are lots of cats and kittens in shelters that need homes,
    but I find that peopel who have cats and want another feel better
    getting one from me rather than a shelter because they know that
    none of my cats are sick.  As we all know all too well, one cute
    little kitten that carries a sickness can kill all your other cats.
    I know that you can have the cat checked out by the vet, but there
    are some sicknesses that are dificult if not impossible to detect
    before it is too late.  Now don't get me wrong.  Two of my cats
    are from shelters.  All I am saying is that it has been my experience
    that some people feel more comfortable about adopting a cat when
    they know the health situation of the mother, other litter mates
    (etc).

    Another note about getting kittens from shelters.  I tried in vain
    for 3 months to find an animal shelter in the Boston area that answered
    its phones on evenings or weekends.  None of them did, so I assume
    that none of them were open evenings or weekends, which were the
    only times I had to look for a kitten.  At long last, I found a
    private individual who was giving away the kitten of my dreams -
    Russian Blue look alike mutt.  At least she answered her phone when
    I called off hours, and I could go see the kitten when I wasn't
    supposed to be at work.  If it weren't for people who hold on to
    their kittens, and kind homes for them themselves, I'd still be
    cat-less (and lonely).  Not everyone can afford a pure-bread.
    
    --Cyndi

    I'm WAY behind on reading this notes file, so please forgive the
    late entry (and the repitition if it's mentioned elsewhere).  The
    North East Animal Shelter in Salem Mass. is open 7 days a week,
    and nights until 9:00 (last time I checked anyway).  Also, they
    are a No Destroy shelter.  The phone number there is (617)745-9888.
    
    Hope this helps...
    
    Tom 

        
    I have question.....
    
    Our little Gremlin (believe me the name fits her) 
    is a year old now, and we haven't had her
    spayed yet. When she first went into heat it was about a month
    apart, however NOW it is actually EVERY OTHER WEEK.
    
    I will get her spayed, however is this unusual? Or do I own the
    most romantic cat in the world? 
    
    Mark

    It's normal.  She's as uncomfortable as you are listening to her
    meow meow meow !!  I brought a female farm kitty home, about 11 months
    old, and figured I'd wait until she put on some weight before spaying
    her - she only weighed 4 lbs.  Well I waited and waited and she only
    seems to either stay the same or lose a little.  She went in and out
    of heat it seemed every other day or two or three.  I finally called
    the vet, and he told me that she probably wouldn't gain any weight
    until after she was spayed - being in heat continuously or very
    frequently prevents whole females from gaining weight. Also applies
    to whole males - it's hard to keep weight on them also.
    
    E.T. + 22 (I think)

    Unspayed and unbred females can go into a constant heat condition which
    I have heard called - "I'm not making this up" - nymphomania.  It
    is very stressful for them.  Get her spayed soon.
      Nancy DC