Conference misery::feline_v1

    Speaking of adopting cats....  Harriet is still available (see 
    note 253).  She really is a great, double-pawed, spayed female,
    tri-colored cat.  She is now indoors/outdoors, and stays right near
    the house when she's out.  She is now tolerant of dogs... not other
    cats.  As you may remember, she was abandoned Easter Sunday in MA
    with her four kittens.  All kittens have gone to good homes and
    now Harriet needs the same.  PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!  She deserves more.
    
    Thanks much.
    
    Lisa Walker   381-1437

    Philbrook,
    
    You make adopting a cat/kitten about as appealing as find one in
    little pieces on the street.
    
    I've been reading your maniacal rantings and ravings about what
    SHOULD be done, what MUST be done, and how all the happenings at
    the Nashua Humane Society are geared for the welfare of cats..
    I question ANYONE'S ability to determine a potential cat owner
    by mortgages, driver's licenses, and whether you've got kids under
    6 years of age.
    
    I really feel bad for the number of people who came to the Nashua
    Humane Society who were turned away because they didn't meet
    your criteria... people who could have given those abandoned
    animals what they REALLY needed:  love!
    
    And I know 2 of them....
    
    Give us a break...
    
    You've done alot of damage to the reputation of the Nashua Humane
    Society already.... I'll go to Lowell, thank you... 
    
    bugsy

       In a thoroughly objective (I'm not connected with them in any
    way) defense of the Nashua Shelter, there is a good reason for the 
    mortgage requirement.   If you'll reread the note, you'll notice
    that the requirement is not for a mortgage per se but rather for
    proof that you are in a position legally to accept a pet.  (You'll
    note that for renter's, proof of landlord's acceptance of the pet
    is also acceptable.)  Having worked at other shelters, I know that
    there is a good reason for this.  Too often when people find out
    that they can't keep a pet for whatever reason, the pet is not given
    to a shelter but rather dumped.  The Nashua shelter is just trying
    to keep people from getting a kitten or puppy on impulse without
    checking with their landlord and then dumping it when they find
    out that the landlord doesn't want any pets there.  
    
    	Another "benefit" of requiring some written requirements is
    that it slows things down just a tad.  Anyone who really wants and
    will love and care for a pet will not be deterred by the minimal
    requirements stated here.  And it just might stop some from picking
    up an animal on impulse and then dumping it two or three days later
    when the novelty wears off.  Sure, YOU wouldn't do this but there
    are an unfortunately large number of people who not only would but
    DO.  Three of our cats were obvious "dumps".  (The other 4 came
    from the shelter.)
    
    	Since the purpose of the Animal shelter is SHELTER for animals
    (hey maybe that's why they called it that, huh?), it makes sense
    that the rules would be made in favor of animal protection.
    
    	As for the no kids under 6, oh, I don't know.  I think that's
    a little harsh, I've known MANY young kids who were able to deal
    appropriately with animals at that age or younger.  I think the
    key here is the teaching they receive from their parents.  The poeple
    who won't teach their children appropriate pet behavior are not
    going to be good pet owners anyway and there's no way to tell that
    without follow up visits/calls so I think the age limit is arbitrary.
    
    	To give an idea of how some other shelters do business...
    The Greenville County Shelter requires the same kind of veterinary
    attention within a time period/altering.  One interesting item is
    that they will NOT allow adoptions for Christmas gifts.  Many animal
    workers feel that a pet is an inappropriate gift because a key element
    of pet ownership is the fact that you have chosen one another as
    well as actually having chosen to have a pet.  Our shelter agrees.
    
    	My mother works for a no-kill shelter in Columbia.  They reserve
    the right to turn down any adoption request.  I was there once when
    a family came in looking at puppies, one of the kids fell in love
    with one but the parents weren't too thrilled about the choice(it
    was going to be a big one) but they were goging to get it for "Junior"
    anyway even thought they hadn't thought through how they were going
    to get it home, where it was going to stay etc.  The shelter told
    them that the dog could not be adopted until he was seen by a vet,
    they could come back in 2 days and get him if they still wanted
    him.  What a surprise, they did not come back.  THey obviously didn't
    want the dog.  If they had, a wait of 2 days would not have deterred
    them.  The dog was later adopted by someone who gave it an excellent
    home as evidenced by the follow up calls that the shelter made.
                         
    	So whatever your problems with Mr. Philbrook are, don't let
    them deter you from understanding the purpose behind the Nashua
    shelter requirements.
    
    tlh (who has added on a 7th cat who was obviously dumped this weekend)
    

    I certainly don't contribue 23 hours a week of my time so I can
    wear it like a merit badge....
    
    My objections to the Nashua Humane Society stem solely from what
    I've heard from you and what I've been told by friends who have
    gone there and received their 'treatment'.
    
    You have been a source of information for people who would otherwise
    never even known it existed, but I hardly think you've shed a positive
    light on their workings.  
    
    The Nashua Humane Society caters to the yups who are willing to
    give in to the absurd criteria the organization has set up.  The
    couple with a 3 year old child living in an apartment in Manchester
    is no less a 'good' home than the childless couple owning a house
    in Amherst.  A 16 year old is no less a good parent than a 32 year
    old... 
    
    And yet your precious Nashua Humane Society would rather kill the
    kitten then award it to the 16 year old?
    
    I've heard your facts and figures on abandoned cats and animals
    that have been starved and abused...  You can apply those same
    facts and figures to almost anything, including abandoned cars and
    unreturned library books because they both suffer the same cause:
    neglect, lack of responsibility, immaturity.
    
    The criteria you put forth is no solution.  It overcompensates for
    a problem to which no one has a solution.  You've turned away life
    for animals and happiness for people based on a set of numbers.
    
    And I say "You" because you have been extraordinarily loud in the
    fact that you ARE the Nashua Humane Society.  If you'd rather not
    BE the Nashua Humane Society, then I'd suggest you tone it down
    a little.....
    
    I'm not making comments about your intentions towards animals or
    your ultimate effect on the workings of the Nashua Humane Society.
    But I would not go to the Nashua Humane Society for an animal or
    assistance or anything because of the hard line you have taken
    here.  Obviously, since you work there, you understand more than
    anyone their innerworkings....  You reflect their philosophies and
    their policies....
    
    That's enough for me....  I know you care about cats and I'm sure
    your cats have a very happy home with you...
    
    But you guys have made some major mistakes in the way you do business,
    and I know what you've done.... and I'm mad as Hell.....
    
    And I do have nerve.... and the anger to go with it... and fortunately,
    this Forum allows me to vent my anger... at you and at the organization
    you represent....
    
    Your last message from the Nashua Humane Society just pushed me
    beyond my ability to tamp it down.... and I just wish that at SOME
    point you developed the humility to realize that maybe, JUST MAYBE,
    you might question the elitest philosphy you have been pushing.
    
    You have no right to judge people based on numbers, Mikey... most
    people won't fit the curve.... and it's the animals that suffer...
    
    bugs

	Well I've been laying low for quite some time but this sounds like the 
kind of discussion I like (head to head with my old adversary). Well I went to 
the Nashua Humane society many times and experienced the frustration.

	To begin with I have OUTDOOR cats, that's not open to discussion but 
it's pertinent. One of my cat's (we had 2 at the time) was killed by a car, 
unfortunate but them the breaks of the game. After a week we went looking for 
another cat, the "survivor" was lonely and we liked the idea of two cats 
(although I doubt we'd ever be able to replace the "PILK"). At the Humane 
Society we were told we would have to wait 30 days (less the 7 we already had 
off for good behaviour) before they would let us adopt a cat. Now we're a good 
home for cats (we is up to 4 now!!) and I take care of my animals (remember 
that letting them outdoors is better discussed in another file) and I like 
them alot (I reserve 'love' for people and ice cream). So I was upset at not 
being able to adopt a cat at that time (I would've settled for the 1 day wait 
- that's reasonable). Naturally I settled on a free kitten and he's still with 
us and quite content.

	I guess the moral of the story is that it is understood the the Humane
Societies have an obligation towards protecting the interest of the animal but
reasonable limits should be imposed. I fealt that the Nashua Humanes societies
criteria was unreasonable and I avoid them (now the Lowell Society is the
opposite end of the spectrum and that's where I got my last kitten). 

	Well as for being ragged on, Mike you have been a little "loud" about 
the Humane Society, just a little. As for not being able to talk about things 
till you spent 23 hours/week doing volunteer work, I watch football all the 
time and critique the players whose capabilities are far better than my own (I 
guess you're innocent of ever doing something like that). It's part of human 
nature, just like getting pissed when the Nashua Gestapo asks for your papers 
when you want to adopt an animal. So that's a lame line to be throwing around.

	Well enough for the ranting and raving.

/harry

 

    Mikey,
    
    How many people get animals someplace else because they are so turned
    off by the red tape they never return? 
    
    How many kittens are killed (I refuse to resort to your euphemism
    "euthanasia") because they can't find a home with children the right
    age?
    
    Do you let racially mixed couples adopt? Gay couples? Do you need
    a certificate from your psychiatrist? A copy of your form 1040?
    
    Whose needs come first - the animals or the people running the
    shelter?
    
    -bs

    OK, stone throwers; everybody's heard both sides of the debate.
    How about suggesting your own standards for animal shelters to use
    when releasing pets for adoption?
    
    Should there be no standards at all - you pays your money and takes
    your choice?
    
    Is it reasonable to ask apartment dwellers for the landlord's
    permission, or should you leave it up to the adoptor to hide an
    "illegal" pet, or dispose of it, or move?
    
    Is it reasonable to insist that the adoptors agree to have the pet
    neutered? In all cases? In cases where the animal is not a purebred?
    Where the animal has temperamental problems? Hereditary ailments?

    Is it reasonable to ask that under-age (18? 16? 25?) adoptors present
    proof that their legal guardians agree to the adoption of the pet?

    Is it reasonable to enforce any kind of waiting period, to prevent
    spur-of-the-moment adoptions? One day? Three? 30? Or is it better
    to let people take an animal on impulse?
    
    Should publically-funded shelters have different (more rigid, less,
    ?) standards than privately-owned ones?

    The issue is an academic one for me, so far at least, as I have
    never gotten a pet from a shelter. They find me, or I find them,
    or my home-town vet (who has me pegged for a sucker) would "suggest"
    that I take a look at the latest abandoned waif, knowing I couldn't
    resist. But I am interested in hearing what, if any, standards you
    think should be applied.
    
    -b

	I'm sure that most people would concur that some sort of "standards" 
are necessary to protect the interests of the animal and the mission of the 
Humane society. I don't claim to have all the answers but telling someone that 
a 30 day "bereavment" period is necessary before adopting another pet is 
absurd! This "bereavment" period was also for our other kitten, so he could 
get over the emotional trauma of losing his "friend". I found the whole 
episode quite ridiculous, I didn't put up a stink because I recognized I 
wasn't dealing with rational people, I just found a cat elsewhere. I felt that 
the INDIVIDUALS at the humane society (this was at Nashua) were projecting 
their ideals of pet ownership on everyone since they had the upper hand. Many 
points of pet ownership can be debated, much of it is an individual decision 
(i.e. indoor vs. outdoor). When a Humane society decides to set up its 
arbitrary rules that prejudice many people who would make fine pet owners 
griping has to be expected. 

	I disagree with the policies of other humane societies which pass out 
animals to anyone who comes up with the money, but to what extent should a 
humane society be allowed to evaluate a person adopting a cat ??? Strict rules 
won't stop an irresponsible pet owner, but it may tick off a responsible one.

/harry

    I would like to see an organization who relies as much on gut feel
    as they do on numbers.  I'm an avid pet-lover, from furs to feathers.
    I've had all kinds.  Even 2 baby squirrels, a rooster, and a sundry
    assortment of hamsters, gerbils, and frogs.  All in metropolitan
    Boston.
    
    I don't mind someone asking me if my landlord approves of my pet,
    but will you deny me a pet because I'll have to sneak it in until
    he comes around to my way of thinking?  He did, you know....  and
    the kitten I snuck in had been abandoned in a parking lot and I
    found it, warming itself against my car while it shivered and cried.
    Oh, that animal had such a mouth on her... and I chose NOT to keep
    her, so I took her to Angell Memorial where before I got her out
    of my arms an adoptive mother of 14 had already started planning
    her life around her.
    
    Would it better serve the animals if the Open Door policy swung
    both ways.  Yes, we want you to adopt our animals, but if you find
    it doesn't work out, please bring it back to us!
    
    Adopting strays should be as painless as possible for both parties.
    Can anyone really be sure that the folks who never came back to
    the Nashua Humane Society just didn't go someplace else, like Harry
    and Reg, and like I would?  
    
    I guess I like believing in the wonderfulness of people.  Not those
    who abandon the kittens and puppies, but folks who will pick up
    strays.
    
    I feel bad for the people the Nashua Humane Society has turned away
    and I feel worse for the animals who have been killed because of
    it.
    
    Mikey must be feeling pretty unsure of himself right now.  But,
    as I said, this has not helped the reputation of the Nashua Humane
    Society.  Neither has Mikey's inability to deal with criticism of
    practices that some people do indeed find questionable.
    
    So, since this is Mikey's notesfile and since he has adopted the
    "take my football and go home" philosophy for it, I'll just bid
    him a fond adieu and let him take back his control of it.  I really
    don't think he's really paid any attention to it anyway.  And I'll
    go to Lowell.
    
    Bye, Mike.
    Bugs

        I hate to butt in, but...
        
        Apparently "Mikey" has deleted his notes from this topic.
        (At least there are several notes missing, and I didn't
        delete them.)  Can we consider this discussion, or at least
        the discussion about "Mikey", closed?
        
        Thank you.
        
Jim Stratton, moderator
        

    May I just say that even if I don't always agree with him, Mike
    Philbrook is a very nice guy  and a really easy person to work with!
    Bonnie

	Well it seems that Mikey has withdrawn from noting (at least FELINE).
This move well earned him the name "Mikey". I consider it EXTREMELY rude to
delete notes in this manner. My understanding was that deletion was reserved
for when someone entered something really embarrasing and had that one last
chance to save face, not for childish tantrums. Now I don't want to erect
myself as some pinnacle of noting maturity, I am far from it (and enjoying
every minute of it), but I do "face the music" and own up to what I write. 

	Now I never meant to imply that Mikey isn't a nice person, I was just 
criticizing his opinions (which he so boldly stated), that's one way people 
exchange ideas.

/harry

ps. Mikey, in case your still reading this file:

	COME HOME MIKEY, ALL IS FORGIVEN.

		Donovan's Brain

Funny thing about all this:  I'd been away from FELINES for a while so I
haven't been in on this "debate", but I happened to stop in to the Nashua
Humane Soc. yesterday with a friend who wanted to look at puppies.  The
"nice people" there WOULDN'T EVEN LET US *LOOK* AT THE ANIMALS without 
filling out their stupid forms.  Now *THAT* is ridiculous.  

This is only the 3rd time I've been treated rudely and unprofessionally
when visiting that place.  3rd time in 3 visits, that is.  I won't be 
going there again for ANYTHING.

Seems to me it's more of a Social Club for people who want to say they
"do volunteer work" than a "shelter".

Try the Goffstown Animal Rescue League or even the Bedford Animal Hospital
if you want to deal with real people.  They get my votes anyway!

-- Sam

>    If you people would calm down and LISTEN for a change, you'd understand
>    a little better.  

How can I "LISTEN" when you've deleted all of your notes?
    
>    Those "stupid" forms are required by law!  

Then why hasn't any other shelter ever asked me to fill one out?

>    Now that I've explained it, do you feel any better?  

No.

> Stop attacking things you don't understand!  Get off the Nashua 
> shelter's back!
    
I "understand" the situation very well (from personal experience).
They're a bunch of jerks, and I won't have anything to do with them, on or
off their backs.  I was merely expressing an opinion. 

-- Sam

    And now a word from our sponsor....
    
    And I guess that makes me the sponsor because I feel like I'm the
    one who started this whole ballyhoo.....
    
    I had originally gotten in here one last time to apologize... to
    you folks in FELINE, to Mike because it was never intended to be
    a personal attack, and to the moderator, whom I'm sure would like
    to get his notes file back to where the passions don't burn up his
    backplane....
    
    So, I'm sorry.  I do apologize.  This medium often makes it easy
    to do and say things that we normally wouldn't do... since we're
    all these nice, anonymous, non-human UIC's.... 
    
    I would also suggest we let this one rest.  It is, how shall we
    say, a NO WIN situation.  Mike's passions will never allow him to
    allow criticism of the NHS and we're not going to change that, so
    why try?
    
    Let's talk about kittens and sandpaper tongues and little pink noses
    and waking up with paws in your mouth and playing hockey on the
    kitchen floor with Little Friskies....
    
    Does anyone know if there is a puppies notes file?
    
    And, as I told Mike, I'll stay out of here.....
    
    bugs