Conference misery::feline_v1

   I would suggest that you get a book like "The Cat you care for" or one of 
the many books like it on the market.  It will fill in lots of things that we 
forget to tell you.  
   As far as what kind to get...  This will be dictated by your lifestyle and
preferences.  If you want to have a pretty good idea of the personality of your
cat, you can get a purebred.  Some cats are better indoors than others.
I have a books which reccomends some cats (like the Russian Blue) for indoor 
life and some (like the Maine Coon and the Abysinnian) for outdoor life.
If you want to show cats or know what they'll look like and what they'll
probably act like, then if you can afford it, purebreds might be for you.
    Personally, I've always had strays and Shelter kitties.  We currently have
4 shelter refugees and 2 ex-strays.  They are the first cats that I have owned 
since I've been out on my own.  They are the most affectionate, healthy, and
full of personality that I've ever seen.  It doesn't take breeding to give you
a wonderful pet, just adoring "parents".  In other words, if you don't have a
specific need that can only be filled by a purebred, I think you can do no
better than a kitten (or 2 or 3) that comes from a shelter or off the street
so he *knows* how lucky he is to have a loving home.
    As far as how many, I would definately reccomend 2.  (Pay no attention to
that nut in the background that's yelling, "yeah you would, you've got 6!"  I
originally had 3 then married someone who had 2 and stayed at 5 until a 4 1/2
week old kitten was dumped on our doorstep.)  I got 2 8 week old kittens and
then a month later got another 8 week old.  They have grown up together. They
keep each other company, sleep together, play, (get into trouble together)...
Having someone to play with will help both you and the cats.  I know because
our latest, is a bit rambunctious.  The only thing that keeps him from going
crazy and taking us with him is the fact that our kitties are *very* playful
as far as adult cats are concerned and will rwrestle and play with him enough
to keep him occupied during the day.  Otherwise, he'd bounce of the walls, when
we get home each evening.  
   8-12 weeks is a great age.  THey are old enough to be litter trained and be
able to leave the momma with no problems but young enough that they are 
terrifically playful, they can grow up as friends, and you can mould them into
very affectionate cats by spoiling them from the day you get them.
   Tonight I'll try to look up the names of a few good books to help you make 
your decisions.

tlh

I'd like to echo the sentiments of the first response.  Unless you have
a particular desire for a purebred, go for the shelter kitties.  I be-
lieve in adopting those with the greatest need.  Definately go for 2 or
more!  It's such a cute sight to see two kitties playing, wrestling, etc.
and I think it's better for them to have a companion, particularly if
it's an indoor cat.

A great book that I would recommend is titled "The Indoor Cat".  I don't
know off the top of my head who the author is, but I have numerous cat
books and that one is the best overall.

Finally, I'd like to make a plea for the 2 cats referenced in Note #123
whose owner thinks "termination" is the only answer (ugh! I'd like to
terminate him).  Unless your dead set on acquiring kitties, perhaps you
might consider these two needy pets.  I'm sure they would provide you
with lots of love and joy also.

Anyway, whatever you choose, your life will not be the same and you'll
wonder why you didn't let 'Felis domestica' into your life sooner!

Good Luck 

First, I would definitely get two if kittens if you want them to stay indoors.
One cat can get awful bored living alone, and may grow up 'anti-social' and 
object if you attempt to add a kitten later on.  I would also recommend
a shelter kitty. Short of showing off the cat for prizes, I see no point
in paying for a purebred.  Incidentally, because of inbreeding in some areas
purebreds can often have bad temperments.

As for preventative maintenance, the first thing you want to do is get
the rino-cat series.  Make sure your kitten is vacinated against feline
rhinovirus, distempter, and rabies.  Since you want an indoor kitty, you
probably won't need to vacinate against feline leukemia.

Toys are a must.   Our cats have a small hollow ball that we fill with
catnip.  They really like it.  The castnip stuffed toys aren't as good 
because the catnip 'wears' out pretty quick.  If you go with a fillable
toy, you can keep refilling it so the cats can play with it for years.

You probably want to put collars on your cats so that if they manage to
escape, any finder will know they have owners.  If you're going to use
flea collars, be very careful.  Oneof my cats had a pretty bad allergic
reaction to a flea collar.  (It ws efinitely worse than any bout with the
fleas could have been!)

Don't bother with any of the 'cat beds' or such things you see in pet stores.
Your cat will find his own place to sleep and there is no way that he or
she is going to sleep in a bed just because it's a kitty bed.  In fact, I
have yet to see a cat actually sleep in one of those things.

Definitely get your cat fixed as soon as he/she is old enough.  This goes
double isf you end up with one of each gender.  A female cat can conceive
at 6 months (in some cases 3) but can't be fixed until 6 or 8 depending on
your vet's preference.  If you get a male cat you will know (sniff sniff)
when he's of age.  Do NOT get him fixed before he starts to spray.  If you
neuter a male cat before he enters puberty, the urinary tract stops developig
and you will end up with a cat who may have bladder/urinary problems for life.

Most shelters have special prices/programs for nuetering and will probably 
give you info on when/where to take kitty for that.

denise

Wow!  I appreciate all your help.  (As I was reading the first reply, the second
and third appeared right before my eyes.)

I am not particularly interested in a pure pred.  (I really don't think I could 
afford one, let alone two.)  Speaking of price, what sort of range can I expect 
to find at a shelter?  (I suppose my other alternative is to search for 
[generic] free kittens, but I don't really have the time, and I don't want to 
give away the suprise by making an obvious search.)

I read note 123, and regret that they are not what I want.  It would not be fair
to revoke the outdoor privileges that they are used to.  (How could I ever make 
them understand?)  I would prefer to be the first owner of my cat(s), and would 
really like to start with kittens.

I am concerned that they grow up to be FRIENDLY!  My mother has had several cats
over the years (and now has two), but they have all been rather tempermental and
somewhat aloof.  Most of them had previous owners.  What can I do to increase my
chances in getting and raising cats that have no other thought on their mind 
than to display, night and day, their undying devotion and love to my wife and 
I?  (I'm not asking for too much, am I?)

As to shelters, could you recommend any?  As I said, I live in Merrimack, NH.

Also, what are your thoughts on the differences (personality wise) between males
and females (cats, that is).

    								/mark

We were in a somewhat similar position when we got our first cat.  My
recommendation is to get a cat that is older than a kitten, but not an
adult.  Our first cat was 5 months old when we got him from the shelter.
He was beyond the destructive kitten stage, but young enough to adapt
easily to his new home.  Also, he didn't need quite as much attention
as a kitten would.  Since we are away all day that helped a lot.
THe shelter had a lot of cats that were older than kittens, but less
than a year old.  These cats have a harder time finding homes since
everyone wants the kittens.  We also found that the cats personalities
were better defined in the adolescent cats, so it was easier to
get the kind of cat we wanted.  I don't think I've ever had a better cat
than this one, so it worked out well.  By the way, it was the Nashua
shelter.  Their adoption procedure is a bit overwhelming, but they
seem to take excellent care of the cats.


KB

As far as cost at a shelter is concerned, our shelter here in Greenville, SC
charges $20 or $25 for a cat/kitten.  This cost includes spaying or neutering
when the kitty comes of age.  You will probably find subtle differences in your
area but in general you should expect to pay under $50 for a shelter pet.  You 
may also find that the shelter will require you to sign an agreement that you 
will get the spay/neuter done, before they will sell you the pet.

There is no real secret to a loving cat.  They are smart creatures and they
respond to love and affection just like a human does.  Give them all the
attention you can, play with them, (this is especially true of indoor cats so
they don't get so easily bored) Handle them often.  It's true that generally
cats don't like to be held, but with care, you can get them to enjoy being
picked up.  The more you hold and pet your cats as kittens, the more 
affectionate they will be as adults.

It's not outrageous to want devotion from a cat.  My Gandalf, a shelter kitty,
is one of the friendliest cats I've ever met.  He frequently greets me with a
Merrr-owwww and a jump into whatever portion of my anatomy is handy.  Usually
a hand but also my face if it's nearby.  We will have long petting sessions
which can best be described as purr-ins (love-in sounds a bit strange).  He
will bump into me, rub all over me, push his nose into mine, and often fall
over at my feet.  All the while he is purring as resoundingly as he can muster.
If for some reason I stop petting him, he'll often look at me "adoringly" as my
wife refers to it.  It's very hard to resist his pretty eyes.  At any rate, 
devotion is not too much to ask for but, just as people go through periods
where they would rather not be loved or touched, cats go through similar moods.
This is yet another reason to have more than 1 cat.  You can almost always find
one cat who is in a petting mood.  Gandalf is somewhat of a special case among
cats, not all cats will do the things he does, but a well cared for cat who is
healthy will generally give you much love.  

A non scientific hint when looking for a cat:  Let him/her find you.  Gandalf 
picked me, not vice versa.  The same is true of my wife's baby, Sammy.  Take 
your time at the shelter and handle, pet and listen to as many of those
kittens/cats as you can.  They'll let you know if they like you.

As far as the male or female question is concerned,  as long as you plan to 
spay or neuter the cat, there should be no significant difference between the
temperment or personality of a male of female.  Don't let sex stop you from
taking home the cat who chooses you.

Have fun finding a new friend!

Gary

Take two kittys for indoors by all means.  But purebred cats can be as
intelligent, sweet, etc., as a shelter cat.  I have best luck with lovable
cats that pick me first off!  My first cat Sandy my beloved Siamese purebred
was picked because he was the only male in the litter.  But I was lucky with 
him.  My 2nd cat Stormey, was a purebred Manx who immediately came up to me
looked in my eyes and meowed, what a sucker I must have been!  My 3rd cat
Trouble, was a black alley cat who bit me on the ankle!  What spunk he had.
Used on hang on my drapes and wave bye-bye out the window at me!  Of course
he immediately jumped down when I came in the door after him . . . .
My Smokey is a Russian Blue who is so sweet and drools with love when you pat
him.  Omar Khayam a cross of Siamese and Himalayan is sweet but aloof and 
does not want to be picked up.  And my Manx of golden and white tiger striped
fur is a very very sweet kitty who will stay with you forever if you love him.
All males.  All neutered.  All inside cats.  I have only Smokey and Omar who
live with me right now.  Amber Sunshine, the Manx, lives with a friend until 
I can take him home with me again.

Good luck with your choices.  And the choices are hard to make believe me.
But let them pick you.  You'll be happier.  They'll be happier.

Gina

Im surprised that no one mentioned that shelters also have some purebreeds.
I have three cats and I can imagine that they would be bored with out each
other when we are both at work.  If you dont want your cat to sratch the
furniture get a scratching post( I made one out of a cardboard carpet tube,
some pading,old carpet and a square wooden bottom)  they love it!
I also roll up balls made of tin foil they play fetch with me when Im
home and soccer when Im not playing fetch with them.

You can find some purebreeds in the paper for a low price.  I got my first
siamese cat for $10 this way.  She came from an elderly woman who owned
a male and a female and just want the cats and kittens for company, and
wanted the kittens to get a good home.

Youre vet will give your cats all the vacinations it needs.

I now own all purebreeds although I love all cats.  If you love your cat
it will return the affection.

    Any Kind! All cats are wonderful. I had two favorites; both short haired.
My first cat picked me. I sat on the floor in front of the entire litter and
figured I'de pick whichever kitten came to me. A little black Tom with white
mittens crawled into my lap, the decision was made.
    The second cat, I adopted. My ex-wife and I were on our way to the DEC
Canobie Lake outing when I saw someone fling something from a passing car 
window. We pullled over and there in the bushes was a pitiful little Tortoise
Shell female. It cost $150 to bring her back to life but she was the most
loving pet I ever had. She never let either one of us out of her sight. If
I had to pick another cat it would be Siamese.

Ray

Lots of good advice here.  Thank you very much.  

Another question: can you recommend a good vet within 25 miles of the
Merrimack NH area?
    							/mark

I have used Eric Clough for a vet for both my dogs and cats.

His treatments and advice havve always proved sound.  His office 
is on DW Highway just north of the Brewery.

I take my cats to the Merrimack Veterinary Hospital on Danial Webster Hwy.
in Merrimack.  I've tried a few others, but have ended up going back to
the Merrimack Hospital, even though it now means a half hour drive.
I think the two vets there are very good.

KB

I have to take slight issue with the comment that there's no difference be-
tween neutered males and neutered females with regards to temprement.  As a
rule, my ex males like (and liked) a bit more solitude than my ex females.
I love both kinds, and curreently havetwo of each.  My fiancee's cat, Sammy,
was a solitary cat and is a bit less sure of himself than my four.  He made
overtures to the ex-females, first, and still isn't very friendly with the
ex-males.

On the urinary tract problem: that can be augmented by early neutering, but
it is in part due to the genetic makeup of cats, whose ancestors were pri-
marily desert creatures.  They have a low tolerance for magnesium in their
diet, and those with problems actually get crystals in their bladder that can
score the walls of the urinary tract.  The solution to the problem's easy:
feed them only low-magnesium diets.  One, available from vets is C/D Hill
feline (available wet or dry: my cats love it dry).  On commercially avail-
able foods, Friskies Turkey and Beef & Liver; 9-Lives Chicken, Chicken & 
Cheese, Chicken & Liver, Ranch Chicken, and Liver in Creamed Gravy are all
low enough in magnesium to be approved by vets.  DON'T get anything with
tuna in it, though.

Steve

There is a note for books about cats, number 4. I listed my books in 4.14
with a minireview for each.

re: .2                    
As far as the two Siamese mentioned in note 123 are concerned I understand
that the person who entered this note will not be able to read it for 
a month. At this time the cats are okay. I agree that the problem is the owner
not the cats but Christine's options are limited.

re: .3
I would add FeLV to the list of vaccinations because the disease is contagious 
and it protects them from infection if they get out or if they meet an infec-
tious cat somewhere. We now have the chance to control this disease which has
caused so much harm. That sounds a little pontifical I know but I lost a cat to
FeLV and feel that no cat or person should go through that if it can be 
prevented.

A neat way to entertain your cat is to give it a pingpong ball in the Bathtub.
the curved sides give it twists and trajectories that the cats love. Another
favorite toy of all the cats I've had has been the knitted catnip mouse. I have 
only found them in the Breeders Pride on Rt. 20 in Marlboro but they look 
simple to make. Their advantage is that unlike sewn mice they can't get ripped 
apart. Malcolm loves to carry his around the house and Cisco washes his (?!).

I have asked two veterinarians about the age/neutering issue with male cats and
both said that 6 months is late enough to wait. They had not found a 
correlation between earlier neutering and underdevelopement in the urinary 
tract. What I have experienced is the myth that if you wait till a male cat
starts spraying then have him neutered that he will stop. While true in most
cases, I went through 2 years of on again / off again Ovoban therapy between
two male cats before they were fairly reliably retrained not to spray.

Use a break-away collar to keep the cat from getting it caught somewhere either
indoors or out. They also make break away flea collars. Cisco wears one.

re: .4 
I find handling them from a young age is the best bet to get a friendly cat.
Since the cats mentioned were owned previously I guess that they were not 
handled enough when young.

Personalities vary widely. More so, I think, than differences between the 
sex's. Find one that likes you and is not too manic nor too retiring then watch
the personality develops.

re: .7
Cisco, a Siamese, just stared at me while I walked into a pet store with
my girlfriend. He has great round blue eyes and a small notch out of one ear.
I didn't make it out past him. $25 got me a great cat. I would not as a rule
get a cat from a pet store as the conditions are usually not very good but he 
nailed me.

re: .10
Merrimack is mentioned in the Veterinarians note, responses .8/.9/.10. Two 
places are mentioned and you might find the discussion useful.

I recommend two cats for ALL the good reasons mentioned in these responses.
Whatever happens let us know how it comes out. Good luck and enjoy.


							.wIx.

P.S. - I noticed that as my message left that I forgot to mention that the
veterinarian note is number 14.


							.wIx.

	Another toy no one mentioned is the simple Nerf Ball. My Siamese used 
to chase one all over the house and finally would bring it back, carrying it 
in her mouth like a kitten, and howling like only Siamese can! The one 
caution, if they get too energetic with it, it can start to lose small pieces 
which would probably then be swallowed (probably not the best thing for the 
digestion?). This didn't happen until the ball started to get a bit on the old 
side though.

	Also, another vote for 2. They really do keep each other company, and 
also they usually keep each other cleaner than one cat can do for itself.

	/s/	Bob

Another good cat (in my opinion) is half-Siamese, half "regular".  My
sister and I both have one and they are both very friendly, very talkative
like Siamese are famous for, and don't seem as "stuck up" as Siamese
are sometimes.  They both are all black except for small amounts of white on
the chest (my cat's mother was nearly all white!)   If you find some, I 
reccommend them.

-Mike

Ray, Bless you for taking in the poor little female.  I get very angry
when I hear of man's inhumanity to not only another man, but to his
creatures too.  And to think humans were entrusted to "take care of all
the beasts of the earth."  That may not be the exact line, but you get
the idea.

Do you still have the cats?

Gina

Another vote for the Merrimack Veterinary Hospital. Both vets 
(Eric Clough and Jean Diderian) are great and the rest of the 
crew that works there are very friendly and helpful. Their prices 
are also pretty reasonable and they are always willing to let you 
run a tab. Good folks all around.

In fact, a veterinarian is often a good source if you're looking 
for an animal.

By all means, have your kitten tested for feline leukemia!

As far as shelters are concerned, the Nashua Humane Society is 
pretty good and from what I hear...they have a very large variety 
of cats and kittens right now. They have some rather strict rules 
for adopting (they want to talk to BOTH members of a couple, you 
have to promise to have the animal neutered, etc.), but the cost 
is minimal. Last time I checked it was $30 of which $20 is 
refundable when you have the animal neutered.

As to breeds, I'm rather fond of Siamese and Maine Coons (I've got 
one of each). Strangely enough, although I let my animals go in 
and out as they please, both the Siamese and Maine Coon usually 
prefer to stay indoors...only going outdoors occaisionally. My 
little "generic" cat Shadow, on the other hand, loves to go out at 
night...and is always waiting for me on the front doorstep when I 
get up in the morning.

A word of caution, put away your breakables for a few months. 
Even the best behaved of kittens can sometimes get a little 
rambunctious!

Best wishes!

-nn

PLEASE LOOK AT NOTE #128. 
ALSO BOTH OF MY CATS HAVE HAD PREVIOUS OWNERS , ONE I GOT FROM A SHELTER
AND THE OTHER THRU THIS NOTES FILE. AND THEY BOTH TOOK TO US REAL QUICK
AND ARE VERY WELL ADJUSTED. AND I THINK 2 IS THE BEST WAY TO GO.

I am pleased to announce that we have adopted two kittens from the Nashua Humane
Society.  (My wife didn't want to wait for our anniversary.)

The first is a 5 mo. old short haired (sort of fuzzy) male grey tiger.
The second is a 3 mo. old long haired female brown tiger (with white legs,
white nose and white chest.

Neither have names, as yet.

The Humane Society was VERY picky.  You'd think we were adopting a child.
According to the adoption agreement, if we don't have them neutered by November,
they will repossess them and keep our $20/cat deposit.  (We always did plan on 
having them neutered, but REALLY!!!  What a bunch of petty pet police.)

But, be that as it may, the kitties are fine, and we are very pleased.

We got Chorniy and Koshka from the Pet Police at the Nashua humane society
also.  The red-tape you've got to go through there is amazing!  However,
I can see their point - if you are willing to go through all that trouble
to get your kitty, you probably will have the patience to deal with
training it properly, instead of terminating it when it becomes a
behavior problem.

Cats can be trained to do or not do a lot of things, some fairly complex,
if you're patient enough and start them out early. Jim has trained Chorniy
to play with us without using his claws (he's a big kitty and showed feisty
tendencies early on) - now he hangs onto things by wrapping his paws around
them and rarely scratches anyone.  Koshka has been trained to walk out onto
your outstretched hands if she gets herself up somewhere and she is afraid
to get down.  Like the top shelf in the closet, attained by climbing up the
coats...or the refrigerator, where she goes in order to reach the moths
around the kitchen light.  It's really worth the effort to do this training.
You can get rid of some bad habits and I think the cats end up with nicer
personalities, both from the lack of the bad habit and from the closer
understanding of their people.  Koshka has been trained to look where you
are pointing when you point with your hand or a flashlight.  Sometimes you
can nearly see the little gears turning in her head, as she tries to figure
out what you're showing her.  And both cats know and (unless they really
don't want to) will come when we call their names.  Of course they still
have some bad habits, but not as many as their owners have.  You've gotta
put their bad habits in perspective - they don't drink or smoke, and
rarely swear!

--Louise

Re .-1:

A cat that won't sniff your finger when you point?  That's amazing!
				/AHM

re .22

How DID you get them to understand what a pointed finger means?

Well, Jim trained her.  He's very patient.  He generally pointed too high
for her to sniff his finger, and looked at where he was pointing, not at
her.  We have lots of moths in the house in the summer, and Koshka
likes to chase (and eat -- blech!) them.  That's mainly what he used to teach
her; she liked to chase them so she got the point quickly.  Both cats looked
at flashlight light (rather than the flashlight) from the start, especially
if we were using it to locate the toy they'd lost under the stove or behind
the fridge.

--w

    re 126.17
    
    I used to have a half hymalayan (sp?) half siamese.  His name was
    Andy.  He was one of the lovingest cats that I have ever had.  I
    remember once when I was down and out Andy came and laid by me and
    put his paw up on my face and looked at me like he was trying to
    confort me.  Then he put his face against my neck and started
    to purr.  I've never quite experienced anything like that before.
    
    As far as his looks go he was beautiful.  Andy had white fur with
    a little orangish-brown mixed in and the prettiest blue eyes I've
    ever seen.  I too reccommend them.
    
    Tammy

    I had to read this note twice.  If it wasn't for his name I would
    have thought I wrote it a while back.  I too was very sick one day
    and lying on my bed with one of my cats.  He did the same thing.
    paw on face and very comforting to me.  My husband came home from
    work and three times tried to remove the cat from the bed and each
    time the cat tried to hang on to me and crawled up closer.  The
    third time the cat grabbed on to me and refused to leave.  My husband
    doesn't like the cats on the bed because of fleas and is real strict
    about this, but when he saw this, he gave in to the cat.  There
    was no doubt to the imagination that the cat was comforting me.