Conference misery::feline_v1

Our cat Tiffin, a Siamese, gets into these "tiffs" every couple of years -
he's 11 or 12 now.  When he first started I had just finished a crash
course on Dr. Spock and handling a small child's tempers - using the
philosophy of not rewarding bad behavior everytime Tiff took a swipe at
us, screamed in rage because he was not being petted in just the right way
I FIRMLY set him down on the floor with lots of "bad boy" noises.  I used
the old paw squeeze to let him know that the claws were a no-no.  It took
a little time but after a while he understood that attention and love came
when he was a little more pleasant.

Tiff, when in these moods also is mean to our two other cats - walking pass
one of them, laying back his ears, laying low to the floor like he's going
to attack.  I usually try to pick him up move him away and do the "bad
boy" routine and plant him on the floor somewhere else.

I don't know why he gets in these moods - my other two loves don't.  Of
course I feel guilty (all mothers are guilty) and wonder what I'm doing

wrong.  

/cc

   Cats can get overly stimulated from time to time.  Especially males have 
a habit of turning around and biting or swiping if you pet them too long 
especially back on the hind quarters.  So this may be a natural reaction.
   If however he is really being a snot nose and contantly doing this not just
from time to time, there is something you can try.  Pippin is our "bad boy"
he's the one that shreds the vet.  Because of that a year ago, the vet gave us 
some acepromizine (a mild tranqualizer) to try out on him some time before
the next vet visit.  (Try out because just as some hyperactive kids response 
to tranqs by getting worse, so do some cats.)  You can give a half a pill or 
a whole one.  One day, Pip got in a real snit about something. (I think it
may have been when we took in the orphaned puppies and bottle raised them.)
After two solid days of hissing and swiping at everything and everyone, I'd
had about enough.  (In a house of 5 cats, you can get quite a chain reaction 
going! Hiss! wap!)  The last straw was when he jumped uninvited into my lap 
and then hissed and swiped at my for petting him!  I had read about using
things like Ovaban to "break the cycle" of "bad" behavior so with my vet's
assurance that the worst the Acepromazine could do to Pip was nothing, I gave
him half a pill.  He was real mellow for 5 or 6 hours and when he came out,
nothing!  He was fine.  He even would tolerate the puppies walking on him and
trying to nurse on him!!  (Pip, unlike Sam, is *not* a dog lover!)
   We only had to give him the one dose and he was fine until he got in another
snit about 9 months later.  We tried the same thing with the same results.
   If this behavior is constant and prolonged, you might talk to your vet about
this.

tlh

People seem to have omitted something:  The cat may be sick.  Maybe petting him
may occasionally hit a sensitive area, which hurts, so of course he is going to
take a swipe at you.  Being in pain would explain his irritable mood.

This might not be the answer, but it's probably worth a trip to the vet to find
out.


				-- edp (WHOAREYOU note 329)

thanks for the suggestions...i really don't think there's a physical reason
in his case...i will definitely talk to the vet, though (actually i HAVE
mentioned it in passing)...he (and brother rudi) have been on ovaban
periodically because of aggressive behavior toward the 14yr old female, and
the first time, it seemed to make them both more talkative, & more affectionate
with me...the second time they went on it, i noticed no difference in their
behavior, as i did the first time...rudi has stayed affectionate, & fritz
just quickly puts a stop to it...i also may talk to an animal behaviorist
i've used before...my vet generally seems a little reluctant to use medication
for behavioral problems...we'll see...

trace, don't you sometimes want to stay home & be a full time mommy? :-)

   Fulltime Mommy to cats, yes!  Any other kind of full time mommy, no!

Love me love my cats!
tlh

A sad story -----

I once had a very beautiful black neutered male cat named Trouble.  Trouble
died in 1982 of Leukemia.

About a year before we knew he had this horrible disease, we noticed a big
change in Trouble's personality.  He no doubt was suffering but had exhibited
no symptoms except a noticable change in his personality.  Without warning
when being petted he would bite and claw and run away to hide.  If he jumped
down from something he would bite himself, if he were sleeping with you and
you moved in the night and bumped him he would attack you.  Yet he exhibited
no sign that he was in pain, etc.  My vet would constantly examine him and
find nothing wrong.  I received three adorable kittens in 1981 before Xmas.
Trouble decided that he would be a MOM cat and take care of them.  His be-
havior improved and he almost acted "normal."  He would bath and escort his
small charges around the house.  He was the one who toilet trained them, he
taught when where the food was, and what the sound of the can opener meant,
he showed them how to sit on the window ledge and make obscene remarks at
birds and squirrels and he taught them now to claw my satin bedspread and
velvet drapes.  He also taught them where to sleep when Mommy wasn't around . .
Then I moved.  Suddenly he was no longer interested in the kittens.  He was
suffering the dreaded "moving trauma."  No longer restricted in the house he
began to fight the neighborhood kitties and came home with a large scrape on
top of his head and down his nose.  The scrape on the nose healed normally
but the one on top of his head got bigger and bigger.  He began to lose weight
and became increasingly grouchier and meaner.  Now we could not touch him at
all.  The vet was treating him with sulfer drugs.  Then he began to lose 
weight and got real sick almost overnight.  I took him to the vet and he 
decided to go the Leukemia test on Trouble.  It was positive.  He had no doubt
had it for a couple of years but the fight had lowered his resistance and the
leukemia took over in his both.  I had to chose the painful course of having my
precious cat put to sleep.  He didn't need to suffer any more.

Moral of the story?  Please watch your cat's behavior closely.  Any deviations
should be attended to immediately. And make sure that you have a vet that is
up on the latest of things.  Trouble might still be around today as he was only
two years old.

Gina, did you have the other cats tested for the virus also?

Tamzen

Yes I did.  And to me it was one of the cruelest tests I've had to see
given.

First they took a quantity of blood out of the front paws.  Not too bad.
Then each kitten (and they were kittens at the time) were put under the table
with their heads extending beyond the table top and bent directly backward
over the top of the table to make the jagular vein stand out.  Then they took
a (what looked to me) huge vial of blood directly from that vein.  The results
came back the following day negative.  The test was very traumatic for each
cat.  They were held in a very uncomfortable and painful position for this
test.  

My vet works very closely with Tufts Vet. Hosp. and yet does not recommend the
vaxine yet.

Time will tell.

Gina

What are your cat's Vet's reservations about this vaccine? 

My cat's Vet was guarded at the beginning but after no cases of anaphylactic 
shock and no problems with the serum per se they are giving it to anyone who 
asks for the series for their cats.

The reason I ask is that I understand it is the largest single killer of
cats except for accident such as cars. It is highly contagious and is capable
of being carried by a cat who exhibits no symptoms.
                                         
I waited for a while to see if any unforseen problems showed up in the first
cats to be innoculated, but they didn't. My cats are two shots into the series
and having lost a cat less than a year before the vaccine was announced I
wish to protect these as best I can. If there is a reason to hold off I want
to know for any future cats I may get.

							.wIx.

	[RE .8]:  "Vaxine?"  You've been working here too long!
		(-: :-)
		<_Jym_>

gina, i know the blood test you described...my diabetic 15 yr old gets
this every week...i don't watch, but she's an absolutely wonderful patient
...they're crazy about her there!...anyhow, back to the subject of this
particular note...fritz seems to have mellowed a bit...tracy, my vet really
didn't like the idea of any kind of tranquilizer for him (i didn't push
it), but we moved a few weeks ago, and he's seemed better...i also talked to
my vet about the possibility of something physically wrong with him, and we
agreed that he's just an extremely sensitive, intelligent, moody cat...BTW,
fritz is the initiator of incredible 4-way snuggle/licking sessions every
evening...fritz has gone through phases of various sorts all his life, so
i think he's just going to keep us on our toes...
thanks for all the responses...

I think I was just as upset and as uncomfortable as Smokey was.  He clawed
everyone within reach.  Afterwards his "wound" bled for at least an hour.
I was very happy that the test was negative.  I had to find new homes for
Shadow and Rajah as I could only have one cat at the time.  It was difficult
but the two boys were beautiful and went quickly.  Smokey was an only child
then until I got Omar Khayam.  Omar also had the same test done as Smokey
could have been a carrier.  But it was negative.  I grieve for my cat Trouble
as I do for all my animals that died, etc.  Trouble was a hard one to replace
in my heart (yes, for all you soapers out there I really do have one!).

Gina

   Gina,
      I have my reservations about your vet.  My vet is fairly conservative.
He waited a while to see how the vaccine went brfore reccomending it but he
does reccommend it now.  Not only that, but when we had the FeLV test done,
all that was necesary was a smear or two of blood that came from a vein on one 
of the front legs.  Took only a few seconds, was so painless, that the cat 
didn't squirm (And this one is not noted for his excellent behavior at the 
vet's) and the vet made sure the wound had finished bleeding before letting the
cat out of the room.  
      
tlh

I agree with Tracy...the blood sample process with my vet was 
nothing like you described!

-nn

While my vet says that he needs to take blood out of the vein in the
neck, he also takes the cat for the whole day and gives her a sedative
so she won't really know what's going on. I told him about my concern
over the 'torture' method you described Gina, which is why he explained
how he does the testing. He seems to care about the cat and her comfort.
kris

    I need help with my cat, please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!        
    
    Her name is Muffin and I'm almost convinced that she has been
    possessed!
    
    She was born in May `86 and is as stubborn a "Bull" as is possible
    (she's a Taurus).  She was recently spayed in December (her howling
    from August to November didn't allow me any rest) now she no longer
    howls.
    
    My problem is as follows:
    
    Muffin has been deliberately malicious.  She has a rather large,
    weighted water dish, yet every day when I get home from work she
    has knocked the dish enough times to completely empty it so that
    my kitchen floor is thoroughly drenched.  It has never been so clean!!!
    I'm mopping it three to four times a day.  I have tried blocking
    the dish, but to no avail she still manages to spill the water.
    
    She has also put a hole in my wall from jumping against it (I have
    a T-shaped hallway and she comes barreling down the hall, then jumps
    about four feet high so that she can hang a sharp right or left).
    I can't put anything up to block the hall as it is rather narrow.
    
    She also enjoys hiding around the corner awaiting her prey (usually
    me or my son) and attacks with her claws and teeth, then runs off
    (I can swear I hear her laughing as she runs away).
    
    Muffin is also no longer allowed in my son's room (he's becoming
    afraid of her) because she has been disrupting his room, knocking
    over anything she can find.  Now that we keep his door closed, she
    sits outside his room crying.  It's really pitiful.
    
    If anyone can offer any suggestions as to what to do, I would really
    appreciate it because I'm about to lose my mind!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Please e-mail me on NYOA::LENT.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Karen
    
    

    Hi Karen,  it sounds as though Muffin maybe isn't getting
    enough energy burnt off with play.  How much direct playing
    does she get from you?  One possible solution might be a
    fellow feline playmate for her to burn off her energies
    tormenting?
    
    Donna

I agree with the "second cat" suggestion....they will fuss and hiss
when first introduced but in a few weeks, they will be rough housing
around enough to burn off that energy...remember what kids get into
when they are bored?  Well, you kitten is just like that.

Direct play with a feather, or a string, that your son can participate
in will remove his fear and encourage him to interact with the cats...
They can be wonderfully entertaining for a child who is stuck inside
because of bad weather...

    Well, thanks everyone for the suggestions.
    
    Unfortunately, I can't get another cat because I'm allergic to the
    present one, but I go for shots.  It's just that to bring another
    kitty into my home will force me OUT.
    
    Having my son feed her exclusively was another suggestion I intend
    implementing as soon as I get home, that sounds perfect.
    
    Looking back to this past week, I think half of the problem was
    brought on by "yours truly" because I was under MEGAstress, I think
    Muffin was just reacting, to some extent, to my mood.
    
    Since I came to that realization, I had a long talk with my son
    and Muffin seems to have calmed down somewhat.  Although she is
    still knocking the water dish over, so it remains in the sink. 
    Gosh, I wish I could find an alternative to that, though.
    
    So, starting tonight, my son will be taking exclusive care of Muffin
    and I'll let everyone know how it works out.
    
    Thanks again, everyone
    
    Karen
    

    RE .19
    
    You might try buying a water dispenser, they go about eight dollars
    and are very heavy when full.  This stopped the water dumping problem
    with my cats.
    Fran
    

    Re: 20
    
    
    Thanks, I'll give it a try.  I had thought about it before, but
    now it's a definite possibility.
    
    
    					**Karen**
    

    Re: dumping over the water dish
    
    (I wonder why they do this?)  Does she have toys she can bat around
    the floor?  Maybe something more interesting than a water dish?
    

    RE.22
    My cats used to dump over the water dish during their food-washing
    antics. For the longest time they liked to take chunks of dried
    food, dunk it and then "go fish". They did this more when they were
    kittens.  For a while I moistened down the dried food and this stopped
    it for a while, then they took to just pawing through the water
    and in the process dumped it over, so I  got the water dispenser.
    As they got older it stopped.  Come to think of it, it was my two
    strays that did it most at first.  Maybe something they learned
    to do outside....
    Fran
    

re: water dish antics

Sam used to do this...he would try to make the water "move" so he could
watch it.  I know because I caught him with his paw on the edge of the
dish, jogging it back and forth...a small dish turns over in the
process.  My solution was to buy a huge dog dish and fill approx. 2/3
full so there was plenty of "slosh" room....the dish was too heavy
to turn over, and not full enough to slosh over the sides.  As Samson
has grown up, his fascination with watching water move has diminished.

    Merlin is a dish pusher/dumper.  I have a humungous white bowl that
    weighs as much as Merlin.  This he can't push over (no purchase),
    but smaller bowls he will.  He seems entertained by the movingh
    water.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Re: 22
    
    
    When I catch her in the act, it appears to me that she does it merely
    because she likes the way the water looks when she swats at the
    dish.  It's a game to her and she's defiant when she does it.
    
    Karen

    Re: 24
    
    The dish I have is HUGE and I don't fill it all of the way, but
    Muffin actually scoops out the water.
    
    She, too, enjoys the ripples; however, the kitchen is on a slight
    incline so the water flows down the length of the it and forms a
    puddle at the end.
    
    Karen