Conference misery::feline_v1

DONT!!!!.....PUT HIM "TO SLEEP" (KILL HIM)......

THERE IS A PLACE IN METHUEN MASS WHERE THEY TAKE RETIRED POLICE
HORSES AND OTHER ANIMALS. I THINK ITS A M.S.P.C.A. I KNOW THEY TAKE CATS
YOUNG AND OLD...........ITS RIGHT AT THE INTERSECTION OF 213 AND 28..
GIVE THEM A CALL. OR JUST TAKE A RIDE DOWN THERE. ITS WORHT A TRY.

Although not directly related to the topic, I must object to the
phrase "put to sleep" being used.  Euthanasia in the event of deathly
illness is one thing, but getting rid of a pet this way out of
convenience is "killing", not "putting to sleep".

			Bob Alpert

1.  how old is your cat?

2.  how long was he your "only" cat (if ever)?

3.  what recent changes have you encountered (condo buying is one)
    that may have made BIG changes in his life?

4.  what other behavior signs is he giving you that he just isn't
    the kitty you once fell in love with?

All the above questions are important to answer before you put a pet
to "sleep".  (see my FELINE.NOT 80.1 for my description of said-same).

You must do everything you can to understand why it (the bathroom
behavior) is happening.  But don't expect your pet to be human.  He/
she needs all the love, all the cuddles, all the attention you simply
don't (understandably) want to give at this time.

If you can accept the pet on its own terms (trust me, that doesn't
mean forever), and still have to make your decision as the controlling
species in the end, I'll accept that. (For those who think that a 
tad pompous, sorry; those are the best words for right now.)

Please, remember you chose to take the responsibility for this animal.
Simply because you don't understand everything that may happen to
him/her, don't choose the quick way out.

It hurts to love through to the end, but it's worth it.

--E.

	Again, "wetting" generally has an emotional root, particularly
if the cat favors one spot.  Usually, it's a cat's desparate way to
call for attention, feeling otherwise neglected.
	Also, there are other steps that might help:

	Along with showering lots of attention on the "bad" cat (while
not slighting the other -- or you may have the same type of problem
from another source) get a repellant (usually based on a lemongrass-oil
extract) that will discourage the cat from visiting his favorite "wetting
spot" (after removing ALL traces of cat-urine odor).  Also, check what
you're using as a cleanser: some, like Lysol (for instance) are poisonous
to cats and can cause them anomalous behavior.

	Finally, some "homes for homeless cats" just make them available
for local farmers to use as farm cats.  A rough (and frequently unsuc-
cessful) adjustment for an "indoor" cat.  To the average farmer, a cat
is a walking mousetrap with no other function.  If your cat is wetting
because he or she has an emotional problem, such a step wold be extremely
(if unwittingly) cruel.

	As to felicide, I consider that a crime just this side of homicide.

SK

	Those repellents really work.

	Interesting approach, putting the cat under a laundry basket with a
small litterbox.  I did something similar to that with my first cat and it
worked fine.  However, I didn't use a "small" litterbox - there was just
enough room for a litterbox and for the cat to lie down:  If she didn't go
in the litterbox, she would have had to lie in it (it was clean).
	I only did this once and she never missed the litterbox afterwards!

	If the problem is that the cat is a slow learner, you might try some
classical conditioning:  grasp the cat by the scruff of the neck (see Note #54)
when it errs; reward it when it uses the litter box.
	If the problem is psychological, get the cat to an encounter group (-:).
(Best advice I can give...I don't know cat psychology that well, outside of the
classical and operant conditioning, and those are only good for learning.  I
have used the "give it more attention" approach with great success, but I don't
know the psychology behind it.)
#6	<_Jym_>\

RE .5 -- Can you recommend a good brand of repellent?  (One of my cats uses
the litterbox about 60% of the time and the living room carpet the rest of
the time; I can't figure out why...)
							-- Nina

Another question about repllents - The Hartz one says not to spray it 
directly onto furniture but to use a rag and pin it to the offended item,
without giving a reason why.  Our problem is in the basement where our 
Myrtle has taken to wetting all around the box.  Can we spray that area
directly or is there some problem with this approach?  Also, is this the
best brand?  

As for the cause(s) - the addition of the baby can't be helped but the
fact that our shift in attention meant that her litterbox sometimes got
forgetten has been fixed. (I felt so guilty!)

Norma

The reason for not spraying repellent directly on furniture is to protect
the furniture from stains. You could spray it directly onto an unstainable
floor - but for heaven's sake, DON'T spray it around the litterbox! You'll
just make the situation worse!

If the cat is not getting into the box at all sometimes, check to see if
it needs cleaning. Some cats are more picky than others. If she's hitting
the floor *from* the box, you might need to get one with higher walls.
(My Chiun does that from time to time, and I don't know why; just aims
high now and then. I've taken to putting a "splash shield" up against the
basement wall to catch the overflow.)

Look at it this way - after all the trouble with the cat, toilet training
your baby should be a snap!

-b

p.s. I don't think there's such a thing as "baby repellent", though. :-)

	Baby repellent is something you use before the baby is made...

:->

Right.  As my dad used to say to me when he wanted my attention, "You could
have been prevented for a quarter..." 

- chris

We have: A dog (who sometimes thinks he's a cat)
	 3 cats (1 neutered male 2 "un-fixed" females)
	 3 kittens (all female) looking for nice homes


Our problem is with Lacy (short for Black Lace) who sometimes will and 
sometimes wont use the litter box. All Three cats are free to come in or out 
as they please and the litter is changed - not just shoveled - at a minimum 
every other day. We go to the local feed and grain store and buy cat litter in 
50 pound bags.(costs less than $5) We give all our pets equal love and 
attention in the form of petting cudling special treats so thats not it.
we have corrected Lacy in the usual scruff of the neck routine and that 
doesn't help. We have spoken to the vet and he can't come up wih any logical 
explanations. The only thing that seems to work (for a short time and then 
right back to the floor) is catching her in the act then putting her outside 
and keeping her out for a couple of days. She uses the box for wetting and 
will ask to go out but if she decides to stay in for a while  gauranteed she 
will mess on the floor within a couple of feet of the box. 

She is a beautiful all black cat that the vet says may be at least part 
Burmese and is very loving so I don't want to do anything drastic but we as 
family have just about reached ropes end with her and have come very close to 
bringing her to either a pet store or own of the pet placement centers.
Before we do something as drastic as that ( felicide is out of the question) 
are there any other sugestions of things to try?

Steve

This may sound really off the wall, but if Lacy is using the floor within
a couple of feet of the litter box, have you tried moving the box to where
she(he?) soils the floor? Gray has occasionally let me know in this way that
she doesn't care for the placement of her toilet (i.e., too near pipes that
she doesn't like (in the cellar), etc).

/Harry

I'm having a problem with my kitten using the litterbox.  I've
been following all the suggestions in this note for the past couple
of weeks -- with no improvement.  

I'm able to trace his problem to a few major changes.  He no longer
used his litter box after he was neutered and had his front claws removed.
Before this he was very particular about using the litter box.

After his operation, my vet instructed me to use shredded paper for
cat litter  until his paws had healed.  He was confused by the shredded
paper -- so went right next to the box.  I forgave him for this, and
figured he'd resume using the litter box when it was back to it's usual
form.  But he didn't.  It's been several months since the operation.
And just recently he started making mistakes at any given place in the
house.  

I've done everything suggested in this notes file except the laundry bag
trick, and the spray-can determent.  I've relocated his litter box; I've
given him extra attention and love; I've punished him when he's caught in
the act; I've kept his litter box sparkling clean; I've tried different
brands of litter... 

I'm determined to try and correct the problem.  Are there any other
suggestions?  

Thank you,

Melinda

    Melinda,
    It sounds like you are doing all the right things.  The only other
    suggestion I can make is don't try too many new things because this
    might add to his confusion.  Is he using his box at all?  Sometimes
    they have to be taught what the box is for all over again.  One
    of my cats had to be re-taught.  The methods that I used was to
    confine him in the bathroom with the litter box and his food and
    water dishes.  That way he is right there with the box when he feels
    the urge.  Also, encourage him to use the box after you feed him.
    I would put Monroe in the box after meals and praise him lavishly
    when he used it.  Hope this helps.
    
    JoAnn

    		One of my cats seems to have a "confusion" about
    	what constitutes a litter box.  She thinks that anything on
    	the floor that is not nailed-down (but is soft) is a potential
    	litter box.  If we leave clothes or towels on the floor (even
    	in the bathroom) she pees on them.  Once she does it, the
    	other cat follows and does it, too.
    
    		She occasionally will find a spot on the carpet that
    	she designates a litter spot.  In the past, we've moved a lot
    	so each new place brings us hope that she won't pick a litter
    	spot (cuz once she starts, they both pee on that spot and it
    	is almost impossible to ever get them to stop.)
    
    		We bought a house recently (moved into it in September)
    	and the cat just this past week established a litter spot on
    	the carpet in the living room.  I'm ready to scream!!  I put
    	them both into the laundry room (it's an unfinished area on
    	the lower level where the second bathroom will go) -- it's	
    	where their litterbox normally stays and is a pretty big room.
    	I've been making them stay in there at all times when I cannot
    	directly watch them (I keep their food and water in there, too.)
    
    		I don't think that they have pee'd much on this new
    	spot yet, so I'm trying to keep them away from it until I can get
    	the pee odor out of it (and move furniture on top of it.)
    
    		Any suggestions about what I can do about this behavior?
    	We have a strict rule in the house about putting any sort of
    	cloth on the floor, but there is carpeting *everywhere*!  
    
    		We've had these cats for 9 years and almost 7 years,
    	so we can't even think of giving them up.  The female is the
    	younger one, so she will be with us for many more years.
    
    		Is there such a thing as professional cat trainers
    	(like "Cat Obedience School"?)  Are they trainable (in terms
    	of modifying one certain behavior?)  Is there *really* such
    	a thing as getting all the kitty pee odor out of a certain
    	spot on the carpet?
    
    						     *sigh*
    						    Suzanne...

    Take her to the vet, just to rule out some medical problem.  I had
    one who did that, and we found out she had a hormonal imbalance
    and had to be put on Ovaban and cortizone shots.  It worked!
    
    Usually a cat will only do this if they are sick, or trying to teach
    you a lesson.  My mother's one cat (she has 3) does this if Ma doesn't
    get the litter box cleaned in a timely manner. Mind you, my mother
    changes both litter boxes ever day, and if she sees one of the girls
    in either box she checks to see if it is solid waste and gets it
    out of there immediately.  But Cali is just showing her who is boss!
    
    My first stop would be the vet!
    
    M-L

    Suzanne,
    As far as the odor on the carpet goes, try one of those enzymatic
    urine removers.  Winston peed on my Scott McClintock white lace
    sweater last week and I didn't notice until the next day when it
    was already dry.  I bought one of those urine removers and the stain
    and odor both came out!  I was suprised to see how well it worked.
    
    Be sure not to use amonia on the urine spot.  It very closely resembles
    the smell of their urine and they will continue to pee in that spot.
    A good substitute is white vinegar.  Pour it on the spot and then
    blot up with a good handful of paper towels.
    
    

    		Thanks for the suggestions about my cat and her
    	picking a "litter spot" on the carpet.  I have decided to
    	take her to the vet for a check-up in the near future,
    	and I am still working on getting the odor out of the spot
    	on the carpet.
    
    		In the meantime, I covered the area with boards from
    	a set of shelves we are not using.  When Tweetie creates her
    	"litter spots," she always picks areas of the carpet that are
    	close to a wall -- so we were able to cover the area without
    	too much trouble while we work on a solution.  Both cats go
    	to the covered area and sniff around, but they haven't seemed
    	to feel the need to pee there (since it's covered.)
    
    		They spent a great deal of time in the laundry room
    	for about a week, so they seem to be aware that something bad
    	happened -- they are being little furry angels around the
    	house.  My son and I have been cuddling them a great deal (and
    	watching carefully when they investigate the covered litter
    	spot.)  We are hopeful that we can prevent furthur damage of
    	this one spot (and prevent future spots) by taking Tweetie
    	to the vet (and by getting Woofie and Tweetie separate litter
    	boxes.)  Tweetie is such a dainty cat -- we think that maybe
    	she doesn't care to share her box with our other cat (even
    	though she has been doing it since she was 6 weeks old.)

    		Again, thanks a lot for the suggestions!!
    
    							Suzanne... :-)