Conference back40::soapbox

    
    how is the crack-head ?
    
    

    I would question why D.C. needs a tax break more than any other big
    city.  What makes your ills any worse than Denver, Chicago, or L.A.
    (or Colorado Springs for that matter)? 

    re: .1 last seen "buying" in front of a Bistro I frequent around the
    corner from my house, according to the "Loose Lips" column in the local
    rag "City Paper".
    
    re: .2 I'd say we are nothing special at all...
    
    

    
    what better of a place than D.C. to recieve a tax break...
                                 _
                                | |
    the politicians continue to | |XXXXXXXX|  us and they get richer
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    Is it hard to become a sovereign citizen?  I've heard of people doing
    this and they pay no taxes (ie driver's license, car registration,
    etc.).  Exactly what does it mean to be your government, and how easy
    is it to do?
    -ss

    
    Oh...it's quite simple actually. You just come to the border and pick a
    line. From there you wait till the Border Patrol Officer passes and run
    like hell. At this point all of us hard working, tax paying citizens will
    joyfully hand over more money in taxes to help pay for your benefits and
    gladly assist you in handing over more cash to help you get started.
    
     

    I feel like the government doesn't do anything for me.

    
    >>I feel like the government doesn't do anything for me.
    
    hey...hey...hey. you just march right on down here, you'll feel soooo
    much better. TRUST me
    
    

    
>    I would question why D.C. needs a tax break more than any other big
>    city.  What makes your ills any worse than Denver, Chicago, or L.A.
>    (or Colorado Springs for that matter)? 
    
    The federal government, which does not have to pay real estate taxes,
    owns a huge amount of the land in D.C., a percentage I would imagine is
    much-much higher than in other city.  This creates a tax base problem
    for D.C. which other cities do not have.
    
    Having said that I have no idea what the current policy is for payments 
    in lieu of taxes to D.C. and whether any adjustments make sence.
    
    Greg
     

    
      Whatever the merits, this would be a real political faux pas
     for whatever party put it through.  I can't believe the idea
     has any political legs.
    
      bb

    Hey! How about giving the New England area a tax break. No farm aid, no
    Chrystler bail outs, no nuthin. Execpt, higher tax's, higher utilities,
    higher crime, and worse.... high bankruptcy@! Lost more banks in the
    last 5 to 6 years than the 'Great Depression'. Whats so great about a
    recession/depression? 

    Interesting that Washington DC, the mecca of barbarism is under the
    auspices of Congress.
    
    

    It's interesting how people in Washington DC, the seat of the
    federal government, the only citizens who can legally be taxed
    under the current Internal Revenue Code.... are looking for a 
    tax break.
    
    Man whatta mess.  Don't get me started.  :^)
    
    MadMike 

    RE: .9

>    The federal government, which does not have to pay real estate taxes,
>    owns a huge amount of the land in D.C., a percentage I would imagine is
>    much-much higher than in other city.  

    It might depend on how you define "city".  Some military towns are
    nearly 100% owned by the military (and therefore 'technically' no
    property taxes).  The military personnel still make use of the municipal
    facilities (e.g., schools).  However, the government does pay
    compensation to towns for loss property taxes.  

    As an irrelevant side note, take a look sometime at the amount of
    federally owned/controlled land in the state of Nevada.  It might be on
    par with the percentage federal land in D.C..

    If the government did eliminate the income tax for people in D.C. it
    would be interesting to see how many people would set up shadow
    apartments ... rent rooms for tax purposes only in D.C. and sleep
    elsewhere.

    -- Dave

    
    
    
    If they pay federal tax don't you think they should get federal
    representation? A house and senate seat?
    
    

  Z   If they pay federal tax don't you think they should get federal
  Z   representation? A house and senate seat?
    
    The FF called it a mistake to give DC Statehood; therefore, why would
    it be prudent to give it representation?

    
    
    
    >why would it be prudent to give it representation?
    
    
    The question is, why should they pay a federal tax if they cannot
    be represented.

    Re: some previous
    
    The FF argued, in the days of the horse and carriage, that having the
    nation's capitol in any particular state would give that state too much
    influence on federal affairs.
    
    It was probably a mistake to let ANYONE establish a domicile in DC.
    
    Probably OK to maintain a residence, but should have been illegal to BE
    a resident.  (Have to maintain STATE residency elsewhere, if only a
    legal fiction)
    
    RE: Payment in lieu of RE taxes
    
    Every city with Federal Property gets a Federal Payment in lieu of
    Taxes and the US makes a serious effort to be accurate in estimating
    the correct ammount.
    
    The DC already gets a huge payment as you might imagine.  The TB is
    estimated to increase this US contribution by about $400 Million.  The
    difference is it will be "given" (i.e. "not collected in taxes") to the
    residents themselves instead of to the DCG.
    
    Why should we pay taxes at all if we can't be represented?
    
    We are represented.  We have a member in Congress, with the same status
    as ones from other territory-like entities.  (Peurto Rico, etc.  Hmm,
    they DON'T pay any FIT.  Oh well)
    
    Eleanor-I-thought-my-husband-was-filing-our-IRS-Returns Norton is the
    author of the bill that would cut us all $400m.  What has YOUR
    representative done for YOU lately :^)
    
    Frank
    

    A bit off the subject, but how many other areas are so intimately
    familiar with the Criminal Records of their leading politicians?
    
    At least we got something!
    
    FJP
    

    /*
    
    If the government did eliminate the income tax for people in D.C. it
    would be interesting to see how many people would set up shadow
    apartments ... rent rooms for tax purposes only in D.C. and sleep
    elsewhere.

    -- Dave
    
    */
    
    Now the lights start to come on...
    
    You seem to regard this as a flaw in the plan.
    
    This IS the plan! (Except the FIT is more like cut in half.)
    
    Property values, even for cuby holes, go up.  Rents go up.
    
    Thus we get more RE TAX revenue.
    
    And we get more DCIT revenue (9% and might it not go a teensy bit
    higher?  After all the FIT is down by 15% or so...)
    
    Can you spell Monaco?
    
    FJP
    
    PS.
    
    Oh and by the way: What happens to the people who can't afford to live
    here anymore because of the rental prices or RE Taxes?  So the cost of
    Human Services may be expected to go down too.  Perhaps dramatically.
    
    But don't forget, we don't just wave a wand.  They will be living
    somewhere (at least I hope so.)  And someone will pay for those
    Human Services (at least I hope so.)  And who might that be?
    
    Probably the same folk that need to resolve the extra $400M in the
    Federal Deficit.  Maybe concentrated in MD and VA.  It won't be us.
    
    FJP

    We already know most politicians are crooks.  they are also trying to
    wimp out on a bill they passed in haste giving their employees the same
    rights other workers have in the country.  
    
    Gee, seems they still want the right to crap all over their staff and
    not have any consequences.
    
    meg

    Hmm...
    
    I thought this topic would be red meat for the SOAPBOX.
    
    How can we have 455 replies on how Clinton used UFO's to shoot down
    Flight 800 and little comment on this hand in your pocket?
    
    How about this:
    
    What group of people currently are highly likely to own Real Estate in
    already fairly expensive parts of DC, may have already seen some
    decline in value, and can reasonably expect to see the fastest and
    largest increases in property values due to the TB.  In many cases, 
    estimated to be in a matter of weeks after any such TB is enacted.  
    Many in this group will be in a position of needing or wanting to sell, 
    perhaps in that very time frame?  
    
    Coincidence?
    
    Just "one of those sacrifices" public service calls on one to make?
    
    When you are in charge of the money river, it is so easy to dip in a
    straw and sip until sated.  Particularly when major irrigation projects
    are under construction!
    
    Have any of you asked your rep.s how they intend to vote?  What do
    they currently own in DC?  What is its assessed value?
    
    If nothing changes, I expect broad bi-partisan support.  Probably at
    the last minute, and in the middle of several other smokescreens.
    
    I would not expect much attention to any "political climate".  How can
    you be faulted for trying to "save" our nation's capitol.
    
    (Even though profligate with our nation's capital.)
    
    FJP

    Don't most of the government cronies live outside of the 
    beltway?  
    
    Is this some sort of ploy to change the D.C. slums into flurishing
    apartments for our government cronies to live in tax free?   

    I wanna be a crony.

    re .9
    
    I saw an article last week that showed that the Federal Gov't owns a
    much larger percent of the land in States such as Nevada, New Mexico,
    Arizona and several others than the percentage of the land it owns in
    DC.
    
    This fact weakens the argument that DC's Real Estate Tax base is unduly
    limited by the Fedl. Govt.

    RE .25:
    
    In 1995 the federal government owned 29% of all the land in the U.S.
    and over 53% of all the land in the western states.
    
    --Geoff

re .25:

Most of the Federally owned land in those Western states is of low value
(grazing, forest, etc.).  The stuff in DC is high value (office buildings).

    
      Note, by the way, that ALL income tax reductions and exemptions,
     though not all income tax credits, benefit disproportionately
     those households the Clinton White House defines as "wealthy".
     That is, all those households earning over $30,000.  The bottom
     half of the US income distribution pays negligible income tax, but
     the same FICA as millionaires.
    
      Thus, the backing of several prominent Democrats for this doubtful
     proposition indicates a tacit acceptance of trickle-down economics.
     But then, we all knew they knew trickle-down worked, but chose to
     debunk the truth, an effort that was politically successful.
    
      As to prominent Republican support (even Gingrich, did I hear ?),
     it is yet another case of political folly.  They might as well form
     up "Republicans for Clinton," for all the good it will do them.
    
      bb