Conference back40::soapbox

    No, I am sure someone else agrees with you.  hth.
    
    

    
    Ditto
    
    ed

                                     
>     They've gone too far with the aerodynamic look.  Cars all look
>    the same. Like they all came from the same Jello mold.

	yes, indeedy.  lots of look-alike cars out there now, all
	fugly.

    8^)

        As long as they have 4 wheels, brakes, seats, good gas mileage
        and reliability, and I can afford one of them I don't really
        care what they look like.  That's why I buy Japanese cars.
        I wish I could support the home grown crop of tin foil monsters
        but they just don't measure up.
    

    I almost bought a new Taurus a month ago.  I didn't like their new
    look when I first saw one on the road (it was a "head-turner", and
    I didn't know what it was at first), but I quickly grew to like it.
    My first thought was that they'd made them a lot smaller, but in
    fact they're larger than the older model.
    
    I'd grown very bored with the look-alike cars of the 80's and early
    90's; they all look alike to me, the basic wedge shape.  The curves
    of the newer cars suggest a "retro" look, sort of what the old 1940's
    cars might look like if that general style were updated for the 1990's
    (as if the styles of the intervening years hadn't happened).
    
    I don't find the "new look" cars to look alike; in fact, to me they
    each have their own style, which is refreshing.  I could say the
    same thing for overall exterior and interior designs of lots of
    things in the late 1990's; I like the retro-modern look of the newer
    malls (e.g., Northshore Mall in Peabody, MA), the new Tomorrowland
    in Disneyworld, and so on.  This decade is at long last developing
    a style and identity of its own.
    
    The only thing missing from the Taurus was the optional interior
    neon light package.  :-)
    
    Another nice-looking new car is the Dodge Stratus (not as curvy, but
    still very nice), and it was my own size/style favorite for a personal
    commuting car (along with its cousins the Plymouth Breeze and Chrysler
    Cirrus).
    
    Chris

The new car designs are simply trying to recapture the beauty of the
AMC Pacer of the 70's.

Agagagagagag!

It _did_ kinda leave you breathless, didn't it, Gerald?

    I really like the THING!

 I wouldn't mind getting behind the wheel of one o' them Dodge Vipers..

 I like the Dodge Stratus, in fact were I buying a new car right about
 now, that's prolly what I'd go for.




 Jim

    I love the new GM products.
    
    I want a Monte Carlo. What a nice car.

    I think it would be neat if they brought back the shapes of the late
    60's and early 70's with a good hi-performance engine made with today's
    materials. Yeah, bring back the "Road-Runners", "Cudas" "Super Bees",
    "Camaros SS", and the "Boss Stangs" What a marketing coup it would be
    to put out a limited edition of any of the street machines made during
    those years...........I know, wishful thinking....sigh.
    
    Phil
    

 I liked the early Dodge Challengers.




 Jim

    I like the latest Dodge Viper.
    
    

    re: the Taurus instrument "pod" or whatever they call it
    
    I like the way it looks, and once you look at it for a minute, its
    apparent complexity proves to be an illusion.  It does have some
    practical engineering drawbacks, though, which Ford really needs
    to address.  Mainly, by grouping the audio system controls in with
    the climate system controls, they've made it impossible to get
    certain options in one area (audio or climate) without also getting
    certain options in the other area.  Of course, Ford probably thinks
    this works to their advantage, but it turned me off, and if I'd
    gotten a Taurus, I wouldn't have bitten for that (for example, you
    have to get the super-duper auto-controlled-air-conditioner if you
    want a certain sound system; forget it).
    
    In some other note where we were talking about the new cars, I'd
    entered a pointer to a 1997 Pontiac Grand Prix web site.  Now there's
    a nice looking car with good features and specs.  We shall see...
    
    As for the Stratus, yes, it was my size/style favorite in the "personal
    commuting car" class.  But I didn't get it for a few reasons:  it
    didn't really cut it in the price/performance area, and the 1995 models
    had some reliability and safety problems that Chrysler was stonewalling;
    and the crash test results were iffy at best.  Oh, and you have to
    remove the driver's side tire to get at the battery; the engine
    compartment is pretty crowded, and they had to put the battery somewhere
    up in the wheel well area. (!)
    
    Chris

    BTW, there was one really nasty thing style-wise about the new
    Taurus:  the "PRNDL" letters on the LX console shifter were these
    obscenely huge Buick-style letters, like 120-pt bold.  Definitely
    made for the senior set.  They'll probably list that as a safety
    feature.
    
    Chris

    
    re. 19
    
    well then.
    A dealor in Oregon has a new Viper advertized on his web site 
    for the small price of.....$60,000.
    
    wonder how much the insurance is?
    
               

    
    re -1
    
    correction..it's a new 1995.
    
    

>    and the crash test results were iffy at best.  Oh, and you have to
>    remove the driver's side tire to get at the battery; the engine
>    compartment is pretty crowded, and they had to put the battery somewhere
>    up in the wheel well area. (!)
    

    I noticed that while looking at the Plymouth equivalent




 Jim

    Has anyone seen the new roadster that Chrysler has out. I haven't seen
    one on the road yet, but have seen photos. It is a throw-back to the
    look of the late 30's/early 40's. The hood comes to a point, and
    the front wheels are mounted on what looks like a wing. It is a
    2-seater, and looks like it could have a rumble seat hidden in the
    trunk. It is a convertable, but the pictures I've seen do not show 
    the roof.
    
    This is perhaps the coolest looking new car I've seen in years. 
    I expect this to be a very limited production car, even more so
    than the Viper. I doubt I'll ever see one touring around New England.
    
    Regarding the reply about reissuing muscle cars of the past, don't 
    hold your' breath. The Feds would never let car manufacturers sell
    any car without massive Polution control as well as safety features.
    Picture a Hemi-Cuda with a catalytic converter and an airbag!
    
	Mark
    
    

    
    	That would be the Prowler, Mark.  What a beauty, eh??
    
    	$35K or so, and will be out next spring.  Powered by a V6.
    	I'll drop off an article from Automobile magazine, as long
    	as I can get it back.
    

    I stilll covet the Hummer

    
    {cough}
    
    

    .29  The Hummer is omething REALLLLL BADDDDDDD!!!

  <distraught look>

  Why is it that other car manufacturers can't come up with anything
  with the sort of extraordinary lines a Jaguar has?  Are Jags aerodynamically
  unsound or something?

    There are some pontiacs and buicks that kinda have that Jag look to
    them.

    nothing betas a Hummer!

    
    ...they're afraid the car would suddenly start requiring constant
    maintenance.

    I've never been asked to beta a hummer, so, I guess you could be right.

    
    Ronnie, please, I'm having palpitations!
    

    Deb:
    
    come on down to my purple car and we'll talk about it!!

    
    <snarl>
    

    RE Hummer:
    
    I have the last Jeep the military had: M151A2. It is great off road,
    probably better than any stock 4wd vehicle you can buy, but it cannot
    even think of holding a candle to a Hummer. I test drove one of them
    and found them to be terribly space inefficient and uncomfortable as
    far as the sitting position is concerned.
    
    BTW they are crushing all the Hummers that the givmint is done with.
    Your tax $$ at work...
    
    
    Steve

    
    I absolutely *adore* purple Lincoln Continentals.

    
    	Not sure that I've ever seen 1, but I do like purple.
    

    
    That's it! I have decided that my new vehicle later this summer is
    going to be a Chevy Blazer 4 dr. or the 4 dr GMC Jimmy.

    I though you liked brown Camaro(e)s, Mark.

    A cordovan four door van, mebbe?

    
    .0 Right on! The new Ford Taurus is rather UGLY! Ford had taken
       "roundnessless" to an "ugh" extreme, but I think the Chrysler
       Caprice (??) took the MOST UGLY award. 
    
       I do like the new MB 300/500SL, even though my SO says it looks like a
       Ford Escort, new lines of the JAG XJS (red convertible, ummm) and
       I really do like the Land Rover Discovery. Now you know why I'm NOT
       in the market (but the CA lottery jackpot this Sat is >$20M, so who
       knows, eh?).
                                

    If you win, will you eat the cost of the lost 'plane ticket?

    
    re -1 actually I had already eaten it with some nice spicy salsa on top.
          it was simply delicious!! thank you for asking.

      I just want a car with "fine Corinthian leather!"
    
      What is fine Corinthian leather anyway???
    
    

 Fine leather, from Corinth






 hth, tony



 ;-)

 Jim

    >I think the Chrysler Caprice (??) took the MOST UGLY award.       
    
     Chevrolet Caprice.

    Chrysler Caprice.  I saw on of these only it had 8 wheels instead of 4. 
    A New Yorker rearended a Cprice and they were, inseparable.  Still ugly
    though.

    
    CHROME!!!
    
    These cars need CHROME!
    CHROME bumpers, CHROME wheels, CHROME around everything!
    CHROME, CHROME, CHROME!
    
    Face it, Detroit will never recapture their glory until
    they make cars like a 58 Buick.
    
    I really miss chrome.

    
    	Chrome?  Eesh, you must be old or something.  8^)
    
    	My Supra has exactly 2 pieces of chrome on the entire car, in
    	very "inconspicuous" spots ... the top corners of the wind-
    	shield.  8^)
    

  .53  a man of taste.  
       chrome rooolz.  or at least it should.

    re: .53
    
    Absolutely.  I am sick and tired of unobtrusive bumpers,
    designed to make the car look like it was drawn and colored by
    a two year old with one crayon and no imagination.  No lines,
    no edges, no chrome, no style!
    
    

    
    	No lines?  That's what pinstripes are for.
    

    Everytime I've ever seen an *ugly* 1971 Chevy Monte Carlo,
    side panels banged in, doors dented, rust everywhere, and front
    and back chrome bumpers look like they did the day it rolled off the
    line...
    
    
    								-mr. bill

    
    Geez, ya know bill, I do believe you're right!

I was getting the impression that chrome was a totally depleted natural
resource, the only remaining supply of which was to be found in junk yards.

    The toxic byproducts from the chroming process will also look just
    the same about 100 years from now. 

  <--  who invited him?  

    Not to mention the fact that petroleum will have run out -  thanks to the
    extra 40lb added to the weight of car.  :-}

    
>    Face it, Detroit will never recapture their glory until
>    they make cars like a 58 Buick.
    
 
   Yes!  A friend of mine had a 58 Buick convertable in the late 60's..
   Now that was a car..




 Jim

  "You hit your head on that dashboard - they hose it off and sell
   it to someone else."

						- Jay Leno

	I was watching this show yesterday that had a bunch of the old cars on
it. Cars with 3 two barrel carbs, the big fins, and LOTS of crome! Some of them
looked real nice, while others look horrid.



Glen

    
    >Some of them
    >looked real nice, while others look horrid.
    
    This, I think, kind of applies to life in general, too.
    

    
    Got to admit, when we were car looking, there are alot of what we
    were calling "wanna bes" out there. They all looked alike, round, like
    a bubble.
    
    Finally settled on a Jeep Grand Cherokee. The look got us.
    
    Mary
    

    
    	So you bought a round, bubble-like vehicle that sits a foot
    	higher than all the other round, bubble-like vehicles.
    

    
    I like to think of it as "sleak".
    
    M
    

    Not only that, but some folks even think they're sleek.  

    To get an idea of what cars will look like, look at the tools used to
    render the concepts.
    
    One historical example - big changes in the look of cars took place
    a few years after the design studios began using airbrushes.
    
    Most of what you are seeing today is the result of advances in CAD
    surface technology of the late 80's.
    
    								-mr. bill

    The rounded shapes seem to hark back to cars that were designed in the
    40's way before CAD/CAM.  It's the new materials technologies that allow
    for moulding that allow increasingly aerodynamic shapes to be implemented
    on a mass production scale. 

    I donno gang.... I like the new looks! Beats the ol econo box's of
    yester year and the 80's. The new RAV 4 by Toyota is a wee bit
    something to get use to. I have been shopping around for a good 4x4 for
    the new move to Littleton Mazz. Drivin them back roads of PRM get to be
    rather sporting good fun! Too bad my pockets are not deep enough to by
    a new 4Runner or such.:(
    
    

    The 40's did rounds.
    The 90's does rounds, intersections and blends.
    
    It would take a lot of "line 'em up" to mistake today's cars with the
    cars of the 40's.
    
    								-mr. bill

Glen, we used to call them trip-deuces in the old days.

    
    	And they became "6 packs" in the 60's.
    
    	Chrysler used them in a few of their cars.
    

    
    LABOUNTY's car is incredibly ugly.
    I don't see why he takes up 12 spaces as no one goes near it
    anyhow.   

    6 pack's and tri-power.  The 6 pack was Mopar nomenclature.  Most often
    mated with a 440 engine.  Tri-power was GM, chevy actually.  The 427 
    'vette with tri-power produced 460 bhp!  That'll flatten your eyeballs in 
    a hurry.  

    I have no problem seeing the design similarities.  But then, I don't
    focus on 'Murrican cars as the design centre.  Even if you don't go
    back the the '40s, the (still pre-CAD) design elements of cars such as
    the shark-snouted Citroen DS in the 60's, Jag E-type etc are only
    surfacing now becuase of materials technology advances.  YMMV.

    
    	Hank, no one parks near me because they'd rather not walk 1/4
    	mile to/from the building every day.
    
    	8^)
    

    
    Would you mind having a little chat with the owner of the ugly purple
    Lincoln Town Car here?!
    

    
    	Find out who he is and I'll see what I can do.
    
    	But this'll cost you ... maybe you can take me out for a couple
    	Belgian Burgers once the matter is cleared up?
    

    
    Er...
    

    My new car is a TRUCK! 96 Chevy extended cab full size with 3rd door.
    
    Ford extended the Taurus "aero" look to their trucks and they look
    silly now.

    re: .85
    
    KEEP THAT THING OUT OF THE PARKING GARAGE! I hate runing the obstacle
    course around people that don't pull all the way into the parking
    spaces and drive on the wrong side of the ramp, so I sure don't need
    some 50 ft. long truck in my way :-)
    
    Bob

now mind you, everyone knows my affectionate position toward Ford,
but Chevy pick-up styling will never win a design contest conducted
by a sighted panel of judges.

    I will concur with the trucks! Buy a truck!:) 

    I went looking for a new car this past weekend. I saw a car that was
    soooo ugly. That it came with a years supply of steaks that you hang on
    its front bumper. The neighborhood dogs will keep it company..:)
    
    A car sooo ugly that there are dots all over it. This is where the ends
    of a ten foot poll were touching it.:)
    

    Last spring when I was in the market, Mikey and I looked at the
    Hummers.  The price tag obviously slowed this old boys  purchase.  I wa
    sthen going for a 4WD but the wif wanted something a 'little' more
    practical.  This past winter would have proved how practical it would
    have been.
    
    BTW, she's now driving the minivan we eventually bought, but i keep
    reminding her every time I see a jeep wrangler that that's my next
    purchase.

    
    
    I cannot believe that that Fugly Ford Taurus *starts* at 18K!!!
    

    Whats the starting price of the Hummers? And where were you looking? I
    am looking at a 4x4 myself.
    
    

    Wow, if it starts at 18K, what does it red line at?!?

    
    
    >what does it red line at?!?
    
    
     At the inside of my wallet...
    

    
    	The Hummer costs upwards of $50K.
    
    	Does Lamborghini still make the Hummer-type of off-road vehicle,
    	LM01 or something like that?
    

    Yes, for a cool $100K+ you too can go off road. 

    Where is a good Hummer dealership? Either Mass or NH?
    
    

    Matthew's in Tyngsboro but they don't advertise much. 

    .98 No... Not oral sex.... I want the car/truck. Wise guy!
    

    Snarfing!

    >Matthew's in Tyngsboro but they don't advertise much. 
    
     Yes they do. Now appearing is Tori Welles. (Whodat?)

    I test drove a Hummer (civy model) a couple years ago on rte 1, Smily
    Buick I think. With all the doo-dad including central tire pressure
    control, they go for about 70k. BTW the civy model had the holes on the
    inside of the hood for the military lighting. They just fiber glassed
    them over.
    
    
    Steve

    the dealership I went to, a caddy dealership carrying the Hummer, had
    one model setup with a full place service for two including candlebra,
    flask of flowers, etc.
    
    obviously trying for a different type of clientele

    
    saw another RoadMaster station wagon.
    
    they are  huge, so huge they are ugly.
    
    

    The RoadMaster is a throw back to the Henery Hudson Hut-Mobile look.;)
    If I said it right.:) And hopefully not dating myself.:)
    
    

My wife has a Neon...
Next time y'all take a test drive, put the pedal to the metal and find out
why we liked it! We timed 0-60 at about 8-9 seconds with both of us in the
car. Nothing especially fancy under the hood, either...

    
    	They never should have discontinued the Shadow/Duster line.
    
    	My '93 Duster 3.0 V6 feels like a 7-second car from 0-60.
    
    	Tom, I think you have a 150HP 2.2 or 2.5L 16V.
    

    
    the car that is butt ugly has to be the Ford Festiva. hands down.

    Shawn, discontinuing the Shadow/Duster line was a mercy killing on
    Chryco's part.  :-)

    
    <------   loosely translated, shawn "The Duster/Shadow is one fugly
    vehicle, and best put out of its misery"

    .110
    
    Herewith a general-purpose version of your remark:
    
    "The <insert 'Murican brand name> <insert model> is one fugly vehicle,
    and best put out of its misery."

    
    	Battis, the Duster is NOT an ugly car.
    
    	And if your Camaro has a V6 my car WILL eat yours for lunch
    	and still be picking Camaro out of its teeth around supper-
    	time.

Shawn "Mad Max" Labounty.

    Battis! Careful about the Festiva! I have one! Infact its my second
    unit! And it gets great gas milage.

    
    <---- figures. :-)

    
    	The Festiva is even uglier than the Fiesta I had for a few
    	years [and unfortunately, never drove and never registered
    	and let rot and basically gave away].
    

    My son has a little red Festiva and loves it. It is a 1991 and gives
    him little to no trouble.

    My fave car of all the cars I've owned was a Fiesta XR2.  Blew the
    socks off my GLI 16VWE.  Handsome little devil too.

    different strokes for different folks....
    
    even Hitler's mother loved him!

    
    
    What I'd like to know is how George gets into the Festiva...
    
    
    Your wife gots a 6 ft. pry-bar????

    
    	Didn't you see Bubba Smith driving the Honda Civic in "Police
    	Academy"?
    

    
    
    yeah... but they had FX, and stand-ins...
    
    
     :)
    

    
    	and no front seat!
    

    >  and no front seat!
    
    
    nope. they had a circus clown car, he dragged his legs on the ground
    beneath the car (ala the Flintstones)!

    
    	Actually, there was no front seat.
    

    > 728.125 by BUSY::SLABOUNT
    
    >  Actually, there was no front seat.
    
    {doffing hat}
    
    I'm truly in awe of your command of useless fax.
    
    The statue will be installed in front of the UN building tonight.

    .120 I don't have a wife! (anymore) so thats a big plus!:) And I get a
    running start.::)