Conference back40::soapbox

    It's Southwest Airlines.  And the VP who disallowed the reimbursement
    is an <r.o.> unless the grunt has a past history of losing
    non-refundable.  It's also too many levels of approval for something
    like this.
    
    Bob - who is flying Southwest on Tuesday.

>	So questions:
>	a) Do you think this is a fair outcome for the grunt?
    
    	No. I swear we are returning back to a time when people rented 
    	picks and shovels to work in the mines. 
    
>	b) Do you this is a good way for a senior executive to be
	   spending his/her time?
    
	   You think he spent time considering this?
    
>    	c) What else would you suggest the grunt do? 
    
    	   Escalate further? Yes. The air seems a little thin at the top
           but I can't see it hurting.		   

    Yes, escalate it further.

Sorry for the inadvertent `CRAP' if anyone saw it; I sympathise with .0.

Chris.

    inadvertent CRAPs can be troublesome.
    
    night messings.

The obvious solution is to only fly on Valujet.

No tickets at all.  No receipts, either.  Only your credit card statement.

/john

    escalate it

    Anyone know what the official VP count is?

This actually reminds me of something I was thinking about the other day.

- Companies like DEC used to issue company credit cards.

- Now, they send you AmEx cards IN YOUR NAME - you pay the bill, you get
  reimbursed.

I have this thing in my pocket - I never use it (don't travel), I don't want
it, but I am more or less required to have it. Suppose it gets stolen. Is it
not the case that I am responsible? It seems like I am being forced to bear
a certain amount of exposure to financial risk.

True?

     re .1
    
     This is the first time the grunt lost tickets in all 16 yrs of
    business travel, but of course it had to be on SouthWest!
    
    

Does SouthWest not even refund after a full year, if the tickets aren't used?

/john

BTW, I thought SW had also gone to paperless tickets.

Who issued these tickets (travel agent)?  And when?

What I know is that you don't need paper, just an ID, to board a
SW flight that you have reservations on.

Just like Valujet.

And this has been the case for about six months.

See http://www.iflyswa.com/

/john

    normally an airline can provide copies of issued tickets; call & get
    the address from the travel agent...
    
    I got copies from United for just such this problem.
    
    btw; poop rolls downhill. grunts live in the valley.
    
    .bp (who has brown tracks down his back)...

re .13

Just what problem did you have?

Sounds like you lost the _receipt_ after travel.

Grunt appears to have lost unused tickets.

The question remains, though, what is an unused ticket on a paperless
airline?

Was the grunt actually charged twice?

/john

    
    
    Grunt made reservations through AMEX. The entire envelope containing
    the fine print and (unused) tickets were lost. Grunt then was advised 
    by AMEX to buy another set of tickets, this time directly from SW 
    (so yes, the second time was ticketless) to avoid another $30.00 
    admin fee (by SouthWest).
    
    re .11 Yes, SouthWest will refund tickets upto a year after the
    purchase date, provided you have the tickets. In this case, there 
    are NO tickets.
    
    few back --- I haven't tried getting the "copies" approach from AMEX.
    Thanks for the tip. I rather not eat this out of pocket, obviously!
    
    Moral of story I suppose is, apart from not losing your tickets, is
    not to fly SouthWest for business travel even though it might be the
    cheapest.
    
    Note about ticketless purchase:
    You would have to deal with the airline directly, in other words
    bypassing the distribution channel. This could mean that you will 
    not get the AMEX-negotiated discounts. Southwest is different; don't
    think AMEX get any better prices evidently since both the lost ticket
    and subsequent tickets cost the same.
                                     

    
    one more detail  ...
    
    these were non al-cheapo non-refundable tickets; these were
    full priced tickets with NO restrictions.
    
     I appreciate the convenience of going paperless, but
    I made this reservation simultaneously for another trip,
    and I mean, didn't Digital pay AMEX lots to make life a bit
    easier for us? Also this is for business travel, so I'd rather
    that AMEX has a record for it.
    
    

>    	c) What else would you suggest the grunt do?

The grunt should get one of those elastic bands with an alligator snap
on each end which Bill Cosby used to have on his "Idiot Mittens" and keep
his tickets under better surveillance.

Seriously! How does someone "lose" something of that scale of magnitude of
value which is required for the conduction of their business?

It sounds to me like whatever was lost was not needed.

It sounds to me like you should have just showed up, without making
a second reservation, with ID, and I'll betcha SW would have let you
on board, and probably would have given you whatever you needed for
your expense claim as well.

It sounds to me like AMEX screwed up by telling you to buy more tickets.
I think you should be able to get the money back from AMEX.

/john

	I'm going to go against the flow here.

	It sounds like these tickets are "negotiable" items, just like cash.
	What would you do if you had taken out a $200 advance and lost it?

Jim

    re: .19
    
    Jim,
    
    >	It sounds like these tickets are "negotiable" items, just like cash.
    >	What would you do if you had taken out a $200 advance and lost it?
    
    Nope.  You can't get on a flight in the U.S. today without showing some
    form of picture ID.  They are not like cash.
    
    Bob
    

    <<< Note 721.20 by ROWLET::AINSLEY "DCU Board of Directors Candidate" >>>

>    >	It sounds like these tickets are "negotiable" items, just like cash.
>    >	What would you do if you had taken out a $200 advance and lost it?
    
>    Nope.  You can't get on a flight in the U.S. today without showing some
>    form of picture ID.  They are not like cash.
 
	Do you have to show ID when you cash them in (these were unrestricted
	refundable tickets)?

Jim

    re: .21
    
    >	Do you have to show ID when you cash them in (these were unrestricted
    >	refundable tickets)?
    
    Doesn't matter.  If they were purchased through AMX, they were
    purchased on a credit card.  I don't believe you can get cash for
    returning an item that was purchased with a credit card, otherwise it
    would be an easy way to get around the credit card companies cash
    advance fees.
    
    Bob
    

    Re .20:
    
    > You can't get on a flight in the U.S. today without showing some form
    > of picture ID.
    
    Since when?
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    Since the Unabomber vowed to caused trouble at a major US airport after
    having been upstaged by the OKC bombing.

    
    .17  debalso
         seriously, you did not know the entire situation in how the
         tickets got lost, but they did. I don't think this is an entirely
    	 unusual phenomenon either. What was unique was SW's policy for not
         refunding ANY lost/stolen tickets. Of course SW and AMEX have the 
    	 records to correct this situation. Doesn't sound like you do much
    	 travelling. 
    
         The issue is not how the tickets got lost, but the
    	 fact that AMEX refused to refund it because it did not lose the
    	 tickets; SouthWest did not want to refund it because it is policy;
    	 and Digital (for now) refused to refund it because whatever. To me
         AMEX+SouthWest should be able to cancel that ticket and get me
         credit from the credit card company, just like any other normal 
         business transaction with other companies.
    
        re. that this is "negot" like cash....
        Well, obviously it is not.
        secondly I have not asked for advances in my business travel,
        therefore have never lost so-called advances. So I really cannot address
    	the issue of what to do with "lost advances".
    
    	Back to .0; I was/am interested in your answers to my three
        queries. No need to flog the victim :-)
    
    
    	In order for me to be where I was suppose to be, I had no choice
        but to purchase another RT tickets (esp. after speaking with SW
        directly).

Unfortunately, unless the cost of the ticket is more than 2% of his income,
he can't deduct it on his 1040.

/john

> Doesn't sound like you do much travelling. 

As little as possible, actually. Which doesn't change my opinion. If you
have been given the responsibility for an item  of value in your possession
it makes little sense to whine about it if you lose it.

Which part of "responsibility" do you fail to comprehend?

    
    pardon me debalso...
    
    I wasn't whining. So YOU would eat the loss, if it this was you,
    right?? Boy, it would be great if I was as PERFECT as you are
    then nothing like this would happen, right?
    
    Considering that I have travelled on business since 1981 (worldwide)
    and this is the FIRST time that I lost tickets, hey, I don't think
    that was a bad record, you know.  
    
    Get real, OK?

Hey! What are you looking for? Sympathy?

You came to the wrong place. If you had the tickets in your possession,
which had been obtained with DIGITAL's $$$, and you lost them while
you were responsible for them, and the vendors are telling you "tough
noogies", then what more do you want from the 'box?

It hasn't anything to do with how broadly you've travelled or how
"good" your record is. It has to do with the fact that you screwed
up.

Deal with it

>> As little as possible, actually. Which doesn't change my opinion. If you
>> have been given the responsibility for an item  of value in your possession
>> it makes little sense to whine about it if you lose it.

    A person can still be responsible and lose something...

    BTW, the basenoter didn't sound like s/he was whining.

Mr./Ms. Wannoor, you're lucky that Jack didn't rule that people who lose
tickets should be executed.

    
    	Firing squad doesn't suit your fancy?
    	Guard those tickets well, you pansy.
    

<---that troubles me.....

  >>    ....      what he is looking for is 'understanding' of what a 
  >>    wield world is this ...
    
    ummm... Even in context, I have *NO* idea what "wield" translates to...
    

re:                         <<< Note 721.35 by LABC::RU >>>
>    Delbaso,  what he is looking for is 'understanding' of what a 
>    wield world is this.  If you can't understand, then you are not
>    a normal human being.  Get off the box and get yourself killed
>    somewhere.  We don't need you here.

Why, Jason, I do believe that's one of the nicest things I've ever
had said to me in here. How thoughtful of you.

Look, You seem to have as much difficulty grasping this as Wannoor
does, so I'll say it slowly this time.

In the base note, Noter Wannoor asks some questions, including "what
would you do?" One of the choices he offers is "eat the loss". Now,
if he didn't expect to get that tossed back at him, he should have had 
better sense than to suggest it as a possible choice.

He blew it. It's his loss. 'Nuff said.

    
    re debalso....
    
    Nope, I wasn't looking for sympathy, at least not from you.
    
    You seem to also miss a few points:
     	Under normal circumstances (read: non-SouthWest tickets) this is NOT
    	a problem at all. There are existing mechanisms to correct it
        straightaway. No fuss, no mess.
    
    	Second point, since there was a good $300-400 difference between
    	SouthWest and the next best fare, I was compelled to use SouthWest;
    	I wouldn't have otherwise because cattlecar IS cattlecar. 
    
    	Third point, at no time did AMEX inform me ORALLY that SouthWest
    	has this policy. The fine print allegedly was on my itenerary, but
        the whole envelope is gone, so I did not see the fine print.
    
    	BTW, there is literally NO risk that anyone unlawful could use
    	these stolen tickets because (as a few have correctly stated)
    	passengers have to show picture ids when they check in.
    
    	So debalso, thanks for your input, but direct your bile
        elsewhere, OK?                        

What bile?

Do you also wish to pretend that the safeguarding of these tickets 
was NOT your responsibility once they were given to you?

    
    	Jack, what ::WANNOOR is really trying to say is:
    
    	Pity me, for I was a victim and lost the ticket[s].  And agree
    	with me that I should be reimbursed for my misfortune.  And if
    	you're going to insinuate that losing the tickets was my fault,
    	or that I should not be reimbursed, please don't even bother
    	replying.
    

>>  What bile?

    I must admit. Some of your replies did seem somewhat full of bile...
    
    Then again...
    
    Maybe it's just that succinct way you have of putting things.

    You didn't think you'd face Jack's bile?
    Shoulda hung onto that ticket a while.

    
    Shawn?? nope that wasn't what I was trying to tell you or Jack at all.
    Pls re-read the basenote and my other replies. You see Shawn, I do
    appreciate discussing issues with Soapers, but I do not need your
    smart-ass attitude. So pls don't put words in my mouth, eh??
    
    That's your interpretation, not what I said.
    
    and Jack, I do not shirk from any responsibility including safeguarding
    plane tickets. However accidents do happen. 
    
    Jack, here's another example, kinda similar situation, I think.
    
    Let's say you travel with a laptop (Digital property) which you 
    either hand over to the security guard or put through the security belt
    at the airport. When you get across you find that the laptop is gone. 
    This happens more often nowadays reportedly. Now this laptop was in your 
    possession, agree? Were you then not being responsible and therefore at 
    fault for this loss? Would you reimburse the company for it?
    
    
    
    

    
    	Well, ::WANNOOR, I have been following this discussion and my
    	synapse seems to be rather accurate.
    
    	You say you should be reimbursed because it was a mistake.
    	People suggest it was arguably your fault, therefore making
    	you eat the tickets, and you don't agree.
    

    <-------  Actually only one person seems to be saying it's his/her
    	      fault.  Everyone else seemed to be discussing how s/he could
    	      get his/her money back.

    
    	Of course, that 1 person could very well be right and everyone
    	else just gold diggers.
    

    
    
    .31  ahh, I think I know where you misunderstood me Jack.
    	 Digital did NOT pay for the lost tickets; I DID.
    	 I also paid for the second set of tickets to get the
    	 job done.
    
    	 So I am talking about ME, the stiff losing money not Digital.
    

re:                      <<< Note 721.48 by MARIN::WANNOOR >>>

I don't see much of a difference. You expect DIGITAL to reimburse you for
both the tickets you used and the tickets you lost, do you not?

If I'm mistaken and you're happy to only receive one reimbursement from 
DIGITAL, even if Southwest is going to double charge you, in which case
you'll happily eat the loss, then I _am_ mistaken in taking you to task,
as it appears that you are willing to take responsibility for your action.

>    Let's say you travel with a laptop (Digital property) which you 
>    either hand over to the security guard or put through the security belt
>    at the airport. When you get across you find that the laptop is gone. 
>    This happens more often nowadays reportedly. Now this laptop was in your 
>    possession, agree? 

Yup. 

>    Were you then not being responsible and therefore at fault for this loss?

Yup. Fully responsible but acting irresponsibly and fully at fault. Especially
given all of the press that this has received of late, but even still, simply 
because I know that company property in my possession is my responsibility to 
safeguard.

>    Would you reimburse the company for it?

Absolutely. Hopefully I have personal insurance to assist me in the matter,
but in any event, when I take equipment out on a property pass I sign the
form agreeing that I am responsible for its safety.

Are you going to tell us that if it happened to you you'd attempt to weasle
your way out of it?
    
    
    
    

    
    Jack - this is what I mean by "bile", for example your term "to weasel
    out". Yes, Jack I was, indeed, being responsible by purchasing another set
    of tickets in order to meet my, and therefore Digital's commitment. 
    In cases where an employee like myself cannot possibly profit from 
    situations like this (so Shawn, you can throw your gold-digger theory 
    out of the window as well) and where there are records of what had 
    transpired, Digital ought to consider reimbursing me, and don't forget 
    ONE VP had already approved re-imbursement.
    
    You know, you could discuss this issue nicely, maturely,
    and professionally but instead you choose to be rather obnoxious 
    about it. Frankly you reek of hostility. So what is really bothering
    you? Certainly my being out of $174.00 could not have caused such
    angst.
    
    Theory aside, have you actually been a situation like this, and
    actually fork out  your own money to cover for a business loss?
                       

    bile = to weasel out?
    
    wow, you live in a polite world. What solar system are you from?

>    You know, you could discuss this issue nicely, maturely,
>    and professionally but instead you choose to be rather obnoxious 
>    about it. Frankly you reek of hostility. So what is really bothering
>    you?


"Obnoxious hostility" as opposed to a "nice mature professional" response?

Gimme a break. You're after a choir to back you up while you take your
martyr pill. This is the 'box, Ashikin. Go ask in DIGITAL if you want
mature professionalism. (Sorry, BobA! :^)

Did you not, in note .0, ask if "eat the loss" was a recommendation? I fully
understand that you may not want to listen to or hear that opinion, but isn't
it an option that you perceived within the realm of possibilities?

"What's bothering me" is your continuing quest for sympathy.

[In my best Rawss voice - ] Now, here's the deal. You admit you screwed up,
and I'll get off your back.

    
    jack, just because it is the Soapbox does not mean I have to get
    down to your sorry level.
    
    and yes, please get off my back. Go pester someone else! and get a life
    while you're at it!

    Carefull now. You just might wake up one morning to find yourself
    pampered and huggied. Wouldn't that be a surprise, eh?

>                              -< jack - buzz off >-

When you originally asked the question, you did not specify that I was to
be excluded from the set of individuals whom you wished to have respond.

Was there some clue that I missed?

    
    	Jack, he wanted you to be a "yes man".
    
    	Since it's obvious you don't agree with him, he's no longer
    	interested in your opinion.
    

    
    shawn - mind your own business; I think jack can think for
    himself.
    
    jack - I've thanked you for your feedback at least 2 times.
    the problem is you want to be judgemental and you want to
    assign blame, regardless of the circumstance. I rather not
    play that game.
            
    

    
    	If you want to get technical, I wasn't even talking to you.
    
    	And if Jack can think for himself [which I know he can], he
    	also has the ability to tell me that he can think for him-
    	self.
    
    	In other words, why are YOU speaking for Jack right after
    	you tell me not to do it?
    

    .58
    
    The problem is that Jack is right.  You refuse to be accountable for
    your actions.  You want someone else to protect you from your own
    mistakes.

    Kinda rough in here lately.  Like sharks at feeding time.
    

    
    	RE: -1
    
    	Please use the correct wording, MM:
    
    
    	Rough crowd lately, like sharks at feeding time.
    

    re: .62
    
    A thousand pardons, kind sir.  I stand corrected.  :-)
    

    
    	Oh, if anybody, it's BATTIS that would get upset.
    
    	I couldn't care less, as far as I know.  8^)
    

    .65
    
    > For example, if you had a car
    > accident, do you think the company will say "too bad, it was your
    > own fault"?
    
    If I have a car accident, any liability incurred through my fault is
    covered by my insurance company, not Digital's.  It goes on my record,
    not Digital's, and it affects my rates, not Digital's.  Should I be
    improvident enough to drive without insurance, the burden wil fall
    directly and entirely on me.

    
    .65
    
    Yes, if you get a traffic ticket, you own it.
    
    ed

    
    Jason - thanks for your support. how are things at the benchmark
    center?
    
    Shawn - my apologies; didn't know who else you're talking to, thought
    it was to me.
    
    

    BTW, when I ordered my tickets from Southwest on Friday, the AMX rep
    told me that SW doesn't replace lost tickets.
    
    There also appears to be a catch-22 in company policy.  Southwest
    offers ticketless travel.  You make a reservation and pay for the
    ticket, but no physical ticket is issued.  You show up at the gate,
    show a picture id, and are given a boarding pass for the flight.
    
    I wanted to fly on Monday and AMX would do ticketless travel if I would
    fax them a TAF (travel authorization form) immediately.  Since my
    manager doesn't work on Fridays, that was impossible, so I had to
    postpone my flight until Tuesday.  When I changed it to Tuesday, AMX
    then issued me a ticket even though I didn't want one.
    
    So, SW has a procedure for their no-refund policy to be a non-issue,
    but either Digital or AMX don't seem to want to use it.
    
    BTW, with respect to the auto accident issue, if you are driving a
    company car and have an accident that is your fault, the company DOES
    pay for the repairs.  So it would appear that in the case of company
    property, it does pay for its repair/replacement.  Whose property is
    the airline ticket?
    
    Bob

>    Let's say you travel with a laptop (Digital property) which you 
>    either hand over to the security guard or put through the security belt
>    at the airport. When you get across you find that the laptop is gone. 
>    This happens more often nowadays reportedly. 
	
	Urban Legend alert.
	

    An urban legend like this gives people ideas, though.

    
    re .69
    
    I believe the airline ticket is the airlines property. Either that or
    yours.
    
    ed

   re: .70  May be, but we've gotten memos regarding this as the latest tactic
   for divesting travellers of their laptops, and to be careful thereof.

   -- Sam

    .70
    
    Seems not to be an urban legend.
    
    Reported MO is for two people to work as a team.  When you approach the
    checkpoint and drop your puter on the belt, they sidle in just ahead of
    you.  The first one gets through easily, the second is wearing enough
    assorted metal to make salvage a viable option.  They start emptying
    pockets, etc.  While this process is going on, the first perp lifts
    your puter off the belt and walks casually away.  Some are reported to
    go only a few feet and then head back out of the gate area, to be lost
    in the general airport crowd.
    
    Real or not, this and paranoia about stray x-ray damage to the hard
    disk are sufficient reason to insist on a hand/visual inspection of
    one's puter bag.  I'd call ahead to ensure that the airline will comply
    with your request - /john has reported in the box that some (was it BA)
    won't under any circumstances.

    When I travelled with my laptop, I always opened it up and turned it on
    to prove to them it wasn't a bomb. I never considered putting it on the
    conveyer belt.  And that was before I ever heard of this "urban
    legend".
    
    Oh well, if it's true, then lucky me, I guess..

POWDML::PC_SECURITY.NOTE   423.1
	

    
    just curious... so far only jack debalso responded that if it was his
    laptop that was lifted, he would pay for it via his own insurance.
    
    would you do the same (assuming this Digital's property and that
    you are on BUSINESS travel)?
    
    

    if it was my fault {that means taking personality responsibility} i
    wouldn't ask ANY employer to reimburse me for a stupid action on my
    part...that's a no-brainer, sorry, u had to ask.

    If, say, someone broke into my house, I would expect my insurance to
    cover it.  However, if something like the airport thing happened, I
    wouldn't expect DEC to pay for it, but I wouldn't expect them to charge
    me for its loss either.

    <---- That's it. I agree.

    Digital has a loss; the employee responsible should reimburse their
    employer.

    
    gee Ron, Digital had 4 years straight of losses, are we expected to
    reimburse them of those lost billions??

    Mark:
    
    a reimbursement for a lost notebook which is MY responsibility is a lot
    different from reimbursing Digital for their losses, don't you think?
    
    Ron

    
    >cover it.  However, if something like the airport thing happened, I
    >wouldn't expect DEC to pay for it, but I wouldn't expect them to charge
    >me for its loss either.
    
    
    	I know it's still early and all, but am I the only 1 that sees
    	a problem with this statement?
    

    .84
    
    No.
    
    I would expect DEC to require reimbursement.  If my insurance wouldn't
    pay for it, I'd expect to have to cough up the bux.

	.85
	
	what would you expect to pay? list price? mfg cost? fair market
	value? replacement cost? 

    I'd expect to pay replacement cost.  However, my insurance is very good
    about these sorts of things.
    
    On the other hand, it is possible that the corporation is no less
    provident than I and may well have taken out its own insurance.  I'd
    see first whether that was the case, but I wouldn't piss and moan to
    everyone in sight if it turned out that I was the stuckee.

I would expect the corporation's insurance to cover my loss of any business
tool the company has signed out to me.

/john

    .88
    
    That works IFF the corporation has insurance that covers a laptop in
    the custody of an employee.

    Perhaps the corporation is self insured for these sorts of things.
    After all, stuff happens. Laptops get broken. 

>   Laptops get broken.

Worse yet, mine disappears when I stand up.

    
    ref my ?? about lost laptop...
    to ron and others who are so eager to blame the employee...
    
    I forgot to state explicitly (since it was implied) the third assumption, 
    and that is: the loss is not due to employee's carelessness, negligence 
    or stupidity. Under those circumstances, what the recourse?
    
    
    

    
    	If you lost it and you were the last 1 to have it, then it
    	certainly has to fall into 1 of those categories.  Or maybe
    	all 3.
    

    .92
    
    The only way such a loss could be attributed to anything other than the
    employee's fault would be if the employee were robbed and the laptop
    taken.
    
    If you hand it over to be examined or X-rayed but then aren't
    responsible enough to keep an eye on it and holler "STOP THIEF" if it
    grows legs, it's your own fault.
    
    If you leave it in a car and the car is broken into or even stolen
    entire, it's still your fault - the better part of wisdom is NOT to
    leave valuable property in a car.  What you leave there is your
    responsibility.

    
    
    Again he didn't get the answer he was looking for and is trying to
    corner you into a position where you have to agree with him.
    
    ed

    She.  She didn't get the answer she was [allegedly] looking for........
    
    Now back to regularly scheduled "discussion". 

    "bile! Line 'em up!"

    
    	WANNOOR is a she??
    

    
    Wannoor bet?
    
    

    Anything to evade taking peronal responsibility for one's actions....
    one of the top ten reasons on picking out a liberal in a crowd!

    Ashikin, please get thee to topic 19 and properly introduce yourself.  

    
    Hi Brian, thought I did already. OK, will do. So did any sailing 
    yet, or still too early?
    
    Re: the other noter... yes Wan-Noor happens to be a she, and yes, you
    wouldn't have guessed it (so you're forgiven :-) since it's not an
    American name.

    
    <----  you're still one laptop behind.

    
    
    Considering the Laptops are digital property and are covered by
    digital's insurance. I don't see any reason to repay dec.
    In fact, policy says the digital will not pay for an employee's personal
    property stolen while traveling because it's not covered by insurance.
    
    Now, digital seems to believe they own the airline tickets also,
    because they want all the benifits you might recieve in your travels...
    like free tickets for inconvinence.
    
    digital wants all the benifits of low cost tickets but none of the
    risks??? 
    

I don't know why.. I had presumed beyond a reasonable doubt that Wannoor was
a "he"!..   I am humbled!

-Jk