Conference back40::soapbox

I've never even _heard_ of Taylor, Michigan before this. And it's
presumeably big enough to have "projects" with this level of inner 
city decay?

I guess I've lived a sheltered life in New Hampshire for too long...

        Without speaking of political parties, I think the government has
    breeded this kind of dependancy, and hopelessness.  I mean, there is no
    pride in the projects. Nobody cares about anybody.  Why should they?
    They don't own anything. Nothing to really call their own.  
    -ss

    Where are all of these 'project' residents going to go? I'm sure there
    are _some_ law abiding folks in there. Anyway, howsabout drug testing
    for people who recieve public assistance? There was a big stink here in
    Mass because Gov. Weld reformed the Welfare laws, and some single
    mothers screamed until they were blue in the face, as if we owe it to
    them. As if they are entitled to have a free ride just because they got
    pregnant by some jerk. Welfare mothers in this state qualify for free
    college, too. I think I should be rewarded, since I've done some really
    uncomfortable things in order to _prevent_ my partners from becoming
    pregnant, yet I have to pay for my school. I have to work full time and
    go to school part time, and some of my classmates don't work at all and
    get to go to school full time for free. Also, the prisons in Mass have
    a contract with Boston University to teach the prisoners. There are
    murderers with masters degrees now from BU. I was accepted to BU but I
    couldn't afford to go there!!! I hate that I have to bust my backside
    and go to a second rate school while somebody that was irresponsible
    gets stuff for free.
    
    
    					lunchbox

         Just go out, get busted for something (not too hard to do these
    days), go to jail, and bammo! You get your degree!
    -ss

    I've thought of that, but then I went to a prison as an intern and I
    figured I'd almost rather bust my butt.

| <<< Note 697.1 by MOLAR::DELBALSO "I (spade) my (dogface)" >>>

| I guess I've lived a sheltered life in New Hampshire for too long...

	It's warmer now, Jack. Time to move out to the yard. :-)

| <<< Note 697.4 by BSS::SMITH_S "lycanthrope" >>>

| Just go out, get busted for something (not too hard to do these
| days), go to jail, and bammo! You get your degree!

	Do you have any stats on that? 

| <<< Note 697.5 by CSLALL::SECURITY "LUNCHBOX" >>>

| I've thought of that, but then I went to a prison as an intern and I
| figured I'd almost rather bust my butt.

	Go to prison and they will bust your butt for you! 

> breeded

bred

hth, nnttm

    Oops! I thunk it was right?
    -ss

    Lunchbox I will agree with your heart felt pain. It aint easy doing it
    the long hard way. I too have walked the same road as you. I am now
    attending night school for another degree in computer science, and I am
    Mr.Mom and know that there would be no safty net for me or anyone else.
    
    The ACLU seems to back the occupantce of these projects too. Saying its
    unconstational to do drug testing and such. But, show up drunk on your
    ass to work a few to many times to work and your out on the street.
    

 There's a lot to work with in that one..

    The writing is on the wall.  Gov't subsidization, AFDC and the like are
    entitlements which, if used with the wrong perspective, foster
    dependency.  I believe slamming shut these projects is drastic.  I
    don't believe the locals are obliged by any means to keep them open;
    however, I believe an immediate shutdown with no recourse can have
    implications.  From what it sounds like, it is being done recklessly
    and not well thought out.  At least get private organizations involved.
    
    The ACLU is scum and has no place in this, since the people are
    dependent of the local gummit.
    
    -Jack

    .3
    
    You've got some valid points there, lunchbox.

Then we have that blowhard Molly Irvins who whines about cuts to 
legal aid funding. Having seen some of the local cases that legal 
aid has taken locally, I sa<y good riddens. One women living in 
public housing was arrested for dealing coke from her apt and 
evicted. Legal aid put a stop to that. Legal aid fought the 
portion of Weld welfare reform package thaty stated that unwed 
mothers must name the father in order to collect. All this with 
our tax money.

How nice.

daryll 

    re: .15
    
    The blowhard idiot's name doesn't have an 'r' in it, but I don't know
    if it is spelled Ivins.
    
    I miss her humour column in the Dallas alternative paper.  Seems the
    Dallas alternative paper suddenly became a 'competitor' to the Fort
    Worth paper Molly works for after publishing several non-flattering
    articles about the paper, thus forcing Molly's syndicate to stop
    distributing her column to the alternative paper.  That's like saying
    the Landmark is a competitor to the Boston Globe.
    
    If you've ever read any of her columns, you'll notice that you would
    get a 'divide by zero' error if you attempted to calculate the
    opinion/fact ratio of her columns.  But of course, she's not paid to
    know any facts, just have opinions.
    
    Bob

    Taylor is a distant suburb of Detroit.  It is considered "downriver" as
    it is south of Detroit near where the Detroit River empties into Lake
    Erie.  Maybe as close to Toledo as it is Detroit.  It is home to the
    Ford/Mazda plant where they build Probes and the MX6.  It is
    predominately blue collar.  It may also be home of the Michigan
    Speeway. It is no different than any of dozens of similar communities 
    that grew up around a factory.  I always viewed that stretch of I-75 to
    be a sort of noman's land, void of interesting features.  
    
    Brian

    Only 19% of the women under 18 are pregnant?  This isn't so bad
    compared to many places.  38% of drug busts?  Easy, if you know you can
    hang out around places where most people have effectively no rights to
    secure their homes and possessions.  HIV, well since many people with
    HIV are considered unemployable, no shock there either.  I can see how
    the police would be called there more often, the walls are probably
    thin enough that you can't ignore what is going on next door, unlike in
    the 'burbs, where people tend to ignore the neighbors antics on Friday
    night.  
    
    meg

    re -1 
    
    But this 10% of the city creates way more crime than the rest of the
    city.
    -ss

    Something like 80% of crime is committed by 10% of criminals or
    something.
    
    

    Scrub the numbers and talk to them.
    
    hth

    OK, a very large percentage of crime is committed by a very small
    percentage of criminals. The average career of a career criminal is
    only 4 years, but those that are into it big-time do so full time.
    
    					lunchbox

        I don't think it's just about crime.  This hopeless mentality has
    to go.  We need to teach these people to legitamately earn what they
    want.  Goals, and something to live for.  They need to be taught the
    value of living.
    -ss

    Is it true that Michigan gives out the highest amount of Welfare
    dollars?
    
    I agree with .23
    
    <<Goals, and something to live for.  They need to be taught the
        value of living.>>
    
    We are talking third generation welfare families.  Where
    the mother thinks it great that her 15 year old daughter
    is going out with a 35 year old man and then she gets
    pregnant.  NO ONE CALLS THE COPS ON THESE GUYS!!!
    
    sorry for shouting 

>    Scrub the numbers and talk to them.
    
 
    can't...he has too much on his plate

    Yeah, right.  It was only one year ago I was homeless & didn't own a
    plate.  I recieved some assistance from family but I didn't turn to the
    government to try and solve my problems by putting me in one of their
    silly little social experiment housing projects and be made to think
    that I can't do any better. 
    -ss

    hear hear -ss yes wonderful ideas, yes...we shall teach "THESE" people
    to legitImately earn what they want then "THEY" can be taught the value
    of living. 
    wonderfully worded, -ss.
    Peter

    Michigan used to have the best wlefare benefits.  I think they were
    outpaced by Calif. and Fla. and a few others a while ago.  I don't know
    who has the most liberal benefits these days but it's no longer Mi. 
    Michigan went through a transformation in the early 80's after the bail
    out of Chryco.  A change in leadership brought a temorary taxt hike
    which was recinded when the deficit was erased.  I believe welfare
    reform of some sort was also instituted at the same time.
    
    Brian

>		A change in leadership brought a temorary taxt hike
>    which was recinded when the deficit was erased.  I believe welfare
>    reform of some sort was also instituted at the same time.

Heartless bastidges...

    here's how the welfare payments in different states break down:
    
    
                   Food 
    State   AFDC   Stamps    Medicaid    Housing    Util    WIC    Comm  Total
    
    Ha.     $8,544 $5,064    $3,689      $8,219     $310    $1,730 $180  $36,400
    As      11,076  3,420     4,575       5,677      551     1,370  180  $32,200
    Ct.      8,160  2,304     3,913       8,016      632     1,269  180  $29,600
    Ma.      6,948  2,664     4,533       8,446      417       988  180  $30,500
    DC       5,040  3,240     4,192       8,616      393     1,084  180  $22,745
    NY       8,436  2,412     3,824       5,677      357     1,237  180  $22,124
    NJ       5,088  3,312     3,824       7,960      583     1,021  180  $21,968
    RI       6,648  3,216     3,130       6,682      514     1,171  180  $21,541
    Ca.      7,284  2,568     2,784       6,413      368     1,090  180  $20,687
    NH       6,600  2,772     3,473       5,520      460       959  180  $19,964
    Md.      4,392  3,540     4,192       5,864      293     1,028  180  $19,489
    Va.      4,248  3,480     4,168       5,608      584     1,117  180  $19,385
    
    
    Here's what the matching pretax wages would need to be to equate to the
    welfare that you would get in the above states.
    
    Ha. $36,400
    As. $32,200
    Ct. $29,600
    Ma. $30,500
    DC  $29,100
    NY  $27,300
    NJ  $26,500 
    RI  $26,100
    Ca. $24,100
    NH  $22,800
    Md. $22,800
    Va. $23,100
    
    
    Source: Cato Institute Study-for year 1995

    .26 SS, Do you have children? 

    <---- No, do you?
    -ss

    Yep. Mr. Mom.
    

    
    	Mr. Mom is your child?
    
    	That's odd.