Conference back40::soapbox

    -1 no

    Don't judge a person until you have walked a mile in their shoes.
    
    Human's are not made on a production line.  We do not all react
    the same to life situations.  Some people break more easily than
    others.  I very much doubt if companies investigate probable causes 
    of stress, rather they tend to blame the employee for breaking under 
    the strain.

    If the person cant handle the job due to stress they should quit their
    job and find something more suitable so they can be happy. There are
    many people who would fill the persons shoes and take over the job that
    caused the person to be stressed out . So the company is not paying 
    out a salary to a person who is sitting home recovering.

    If the company caused the stress in the first place then they own
    responsibility toward the employee, just the same as if they had
    exposed the employee to asbestos or faulty equipment.
    
    If the employee in the work place fell down a flight of badly maintained 
    steps and fractured a few bones, you would not expect the company to
    fire them for having bones that brake.  Or would you?
    
    I have seen engineers driven by poor managers, with threats of being
    fired, to work 70 and 80 hours week-in-year-out on a troubled project, 
    lose sleep, lose touch with their spouses and children, burn out and fall 
    to pieces.  You think they deserve to be trashed for pushing themselves 
    over the edge just to keep a roof over their families head.  Why? 
    
    No, don't bother to answer.  My guess is you are a Republican. You are
    aren't you. Go on, admit it, I'm right! 
                                               

    Since stress is caused mainly by an individual's *response* to stress
    inducers, I don't think a company should be responsible for a person's
    stress.
    
    And in general I think a person should be responsible for him/herself.
    
    But that said, one Very Good Thing government and companies could do
    for people is to help them with information about many things,
    including how to avoid or deal with stress at work, at home, and
    everywhere else in the world.

    re: 5
    
    I agree with you 100%. If a person cant handle their job due to stress
    then they should find a new job and let someone who would be a success
    at their job have the position.  The  company should help, by
    counseling,  help the employee find a position within the company that
    they will be able to work more productively and not have the stress
    that they had on their previous position.
    
    Lynne 

    What about a death in the family...how stressful is that? How does that
    effect work. Stress is different for different people for different
    reasons. 

    
    I think this depends to a large degree on why the job is stressful.
    
    For instance...if you take a job as an air traffic controller or
    some such thing, you really don't have much room to complain that the
    job is stressful; you knew what you were getting into.  On the other 
    hand, if your company keeps laying off people and expecting you to pick
    up their workload, then the company shares a greater responsibility for
    the stress you've encountered.
    

	If ones family brings on stress, should they leave their family in
search of one that is better?????


Glen

    I dunno,
    
    Ask Newt.
    
    meg

    .10
    
    (chuckle) good one!

    So is stress a bad thing?

	I think stress is a ballplayer....

    your family causing stress? simple, sue 'em...

    
    > I dunno,
    > Ask Newt.
    
    Or Ted K...
    

    Take it easy Gaskell, don't blow a gasket.  I'm a Republican, but
    I tend to agree with you.
    
    If a company is culpable in the stress (Collins nailed it in .8);
    then the company "owns" some responsibility.  I've personally wit-
    nessed hard working co-workers succumb to stress.  I've also had
    some personal experience with this; EAP was of great assistance to
    me (don't know if EAP still exists though).
    
    If the stress is "self-imposed"; then I do think it is imperative
    upon the individual to take another look at their career.  FWIW,
    IMO "self-imposed" covers most of the workaholics around us; I don't
    think any of us can say we haven't worked with people who definitely
    fit the profile of workaholic.  Some workaholics get away with it
    for years, but the first time they stop DEAD in their tracks, it's
    usually the last time.
    
    

    Yes, a company's attitude can cause stress.  A company can
    provide you with vacation time, but not encourage you to use
    it.  A company can pay you for a 40 hour work week and work
    you 60 or 80 hours through guilt or intimidation.  A company
    can make you feel guilty for being sick.  
    
    Things rarely happen in a vaccumm.  Yes, we are seeing an 
    increase in odd LTD cases nationwide.  However, if companies did
    "the right thing" instead of "the cheap thing" or "the
    efficient thing" perhaps less of these incidents would
    see the light of day.  
    
    Employer/employee relationships should be balanced.  The
    employee is performing a valuable and needed service to the employer 
    and is being compensated according to his/her skills and
    experience.  What the employee brings to a job should be 
    as important as the company who hires him/her to perform
    that job.  If there were no employees, there would be no
    companies.  If there were no companies, there would be no
    employees.
    
    Mary-Michael

    All that may be true (.17), but nothing takes the responsibility off
    the individual to look to his or her own welfare.  The company isn't
    your mom or dad.  It is a collection of hahvahd mbas who are concerned
    about other things.
    
    Is that wise?  I don't think so, personally.  But it is the way things
    are in most companies today -- some are *much* worse than others.  
    
    But the individual can develop a thick skin, take charge of his/her own
    best interests, and act accordingly.  If the company won't cooperate,
    then find a new company.  Companies are not immune from survival of the
    fittest principles any more than individuals are.

>    that job.  If there were no employees, there would be no
>    companies.

  Not so. There are lots of companies that have nothing but co-owners and con-
tractors. But I know what you mean is "If there were no people doing the work
...".
  Re changing jobs: In this day and age, it's not a simple matter of "if your
work is too stressful for you, find another job". Job-hunting is a major under-
taking these days, no matter how hot your profession is. Finding another job
may take 6 months or more. And looking for another job while keeping your cur-
rent, stressful job adds a lot more stress, which could put you over the edge.

    >    <<< Note 525.19 by IROCZ::MORRISON "Bob M. LKG1-3/A11 226-7570" >>>
    >               -< Finding another job not easy these days >-
    > 
    > Finding another job may take 6 months or more.
    
    hhhmmmmm.... it's never taken me more than 6-8 weeks to get another
    job.  What's the problem?
    

    
    Bob likes to be paid more than minimum wage?
    
    

    
    <----------
    
    BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAH......
    
    Minimum wage.....right...
    :-)

    It takes 6-8 weeks to find a job! It takes me about 3 days and I dont
    expect more than minimum wage. Minimum wage = minimum stress, minimum
    responsibilities, minimum effort, minimum job satisfaction. Poor
    engineers, boo hoo hoo, got to work 80 hrs a week, boo hoo hoo, if you
    cant take the heat get out of the frying pan. I myself refuse to get
    anywhere near the stove never mind a hot fry pan! Even making 15,000K
    a year satisfies my sporting endeavours and good coffee and dinner out
    once or twice a week. Its all a matter of what you want and how you get
    it. A poor engineer who works 80hrs a week for poor management was
    maybe a little eager in the early stages of the decision making
    process.
    
    Putting more emphasis on getting to know one's limitations would help
    greatly. Many people have been fooled to think that just because you
    have an engineering degree (or any other professional degree for that
    matter) you can be what your degree says you are qualified for.
    
    chris
    

    
    
    	
>    Putting more emphasis on getting to know one's limitations would help
>    greatly. 
    
    	Agreed. As Mr. Eastwood says, "A man's got to know his
    limitations". 
    
    	I do think stress related cases should be looked at and
    investigated, but I'll bet that greater than 75% of them are the
    individual simply not taking care of themselves or just playing the
    system. 
    
    
    	jim
    
    p.s. - I know quite a few people out on LTD and most of them are just
    plain ol' fakin' it. Make's me wanna wretch...
    
          

    Is that Clint as in Clint Eastwood?

    
    
    	Yup....
    
    

    
    "Magnum Force" unless I'm very much mistaken....
    
    BTW - what the h*!! kind of car was he driving in that movie?  It,
    shall we say, too a licking, and kept on ticking....
    
    :-)
    

    Looked like a Dodge sedan, of some sort.  Been a while since I've seen
    that movie, though, so I can't say for sure.

    
    	It was dodge...the ol' police cruiser with the 440magnum
    "interceptor" engine. Nice...:)
    
    	jim

    That's what I thought, wasn't sure though.  The 440mag engine was a
    real peice of work- dangerous even, in the hands of lesser mortals. 
    8^)