Conference back40::soapbox

    
    
    I think its a good program and I'd allow my child to 
    attend - absolutely!
    
    This program seems like it would give the kids a dose
    of reality without having to actually give birth to a 
    baby.  Teaches them that babies aren't just there to 
    look at and to play with, but they are a MAJOR 
    responsibility and not always "fun"...
    
    But, I think one of the bigger questions here is WHY
    do these kids want to have babies so bad?!
    
    /Kristin

    This crap does not belong in our public schools. It is just another
    useless program that everyone will be forced to pay for even if they
    don't want it. This socialized approach to societies ills may soon
    doom us.
    
    ...Tom

     How many prevented pregnancies do you think it takes before this
    program pays for itself by keeping children from going onto welfare?
    These kids have no means to support a child- they just go on welfare.
    Clue- a kid that goes on welfare at 12 or 13 years old to pay for their
    kid costs us a lot of money before they become self-supporting.

    RE: .3
    
    Yea right, and all these other programs that have been initiated over
    the years have really worked well!  :-)
    
    ...Tom

    
    
    Hey, at least it's a start.
    
    I'd rather pay for a girl/boy to attend a 6 week
    program than to contribute to their welfare for 18
    years because they "wanted to see what it would be
    like to have a baby".
    
    It doesn't necessarily have to be done during school
    or take away from their education.
    
    Kristin

    
    One of the girls pointed out to the fifteen year old when asked how she
    was going to support the baby that you can't collect welfare until your
    18. Not sure if this is the case in Massachusetts or not.
    
    I'd rather do this than pay for the real thing later on down the road.
      
    One girl said she thought it would bring she and her boyfriend
    closer, and that HE wanted to have a baby with her, and now the
    boyfriend is no longer in the picture.
    
    One girl was 15 and 6 months pregnant and said that she and her
    boyfriend wanted this together and now all they do it fight. He said
    "he can't stand her mood swings".  And he is going to be able to
    tolerate an infants mood swings???? DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!!!

    The show also pointed out how parents think "Oh, not my kid" and that
    there are many kids wanting to have babies and their parents don't know
    their secret wishes.
    
    It was truely sad.  One girl was 13, she had a one year old baby.
    

 "Its a big ol' goofy world"





                          John Prine

    When I was 16 and working for my dad, there was a girl who had an
    apartment upstairs from one of the garages in which we stored our
    stock. I think she was 17 or 18 at the time. She had this apartment
    because she had a kid out of wedlock and she couldn't pay for it on her
    own. What she wanted was a little assistance so she could live with her
    parents and afford the kid, plus medical coverage for the kid. That's
    not how welfare works, however. She wasn't allowed to live with her
    parents, she had to get her own apartment (paid for by welfare.) They
    also picked up the cost of her college. Plus food stamps, etc. It cost
    the government, and hence _US_ an awful lot of money, when it could
    have cost us a lot less if they'd just let her live with her parents.

    I think it is a great program. I will tell you what, too many teens are
    becoming pregnant. Rolanda had a thirteen year old that was in labor
    when she got to the show and they had to rush the girl to the hospital.
    I think these teens think is cool, like a trend to have a kid. I think
    that doll "Baby think it over" is a super idea. It gives them a reality
    slap and with the increase of teen pregnancy I think it should be
    taught in all schools.
    
    

        >I'd rather pay for a girl/boy to attend a 6 week
        >program than to contribute to their welfare for 18
        >years because they "wanted to see what it would be
        >like to have a baby".
    
        >It doesn't necessarily have to be done during school
        >or take away from their education.
    
    Good, I think it admirable of you to be willing to pay for this
    program. If others are willing also than I suggest the program start
    after school or in the evening and that a tuition be charged to all
    participants, that covers the entire cost of the program. As long as it 
    isn't included as part of the school's curriculum and it is not expected 
    that all taxpayers pay the bill.
    
    ...Tom

    You'd rather pay a larger bill for welfare?

    The program would probaby be part of the sex education classes they
    give in school. When I was in school it was called "Health" and they
    taught all sorts of aspects of sex ed like birth control etc. This was
    in the early eighties. But back then the teenage pregnancy rate is not
    where it is today. 

    Is Home Economics still taught in school?  This would be a great (IMO)
    substitute for brownie baking and sewing skills and should be
    encouraged to be taken by both students on both sides of the gender
    fence.  Little Johnny and Janey both need to be taught that with sex,
    comes some responsibility.  Set it up with fake checking accounts
    simulating welfare payments that have to be managed along with all the
    other teenage expenditures.  This could provide a huge reality check
    for those wishing to have kids for all the wrong reasons.  
    
    Brian

    
    
    I agree with you Brian.  Home Ec. is not an important class
    at all in comparrison with this!  Neither is woodshop, printshop,
    auto mechanics, etc.  Think of all the money we could save if we
    eliminated these mundane classes and replaced them with real life
    situation classes.  Not just the 'this is what it's like to have a kid'
    classes either.
    
    
    Terrie
    

>                          Think of all the money we could save if we
>    eliminated these mundane classes and replaced them with real life
>    situation classes.

It would reduce the teen pregnancy rate and boost the teen suicide rate.

    >You'd rather pay a larger bill for welfare?
    
    This is pure conjecture on your part. This argument is used often in
    order to place high priced programs into the public school. As shown 
    by the increased pregnancy rate, these programs have not worked. Prove
    that this program will lower the teenage pregnancy rate and will lower
    the overall welfare bill to taxpayers then decide.
    
    ...Tom

    
    On the show, they had both picked both female and male students in
    various age ranges it looked like.  I should
    point out that the kids went to Harpo Studios to pick up their babies,
    and were given pre-instructions on what they were expected to do. 
    
    Oprah did point out that is was being started in Chicago schools, but I
    did not hear if the school system was paying for it or if it was paid
    for by someone else or by parents who wanted their kids to participate.
    
    They had this one male student, the kid look like he was 12, pushing
    his baby in the stroller to his football practice and having his
    teammates asking him questions about his "baby" and then hauling all
    of it home and to school.  He admitted it was hard and that if every
    kid did this for a week, they'd change their minds about wanting to
    have a baby.
    
    I'd pay the money for it, I'd substitute it for home econmics, or even
    a study period.  Other than the cost of buying the dolls and
    necessities, which are all reusable for another class,
    the kids are on their own afterwards.

    When I went to school, we were taught sex ed in 6th, 8th, and 12th
    grade and we also had drug education (one semester drug ed, one
    semester sex ed). We never had any drug problems or pregnancy from my
    graduating class and it was the best thing our school system did. These
    are real life situation classes, and from movies and lectures you
    thaught twice about getting pregnant or doing drugs. The programs we
    had were very extensive and very well taught.
    
    These teens think having a child is status that they are grown up, but
    once that baby start crying at all hours of the nite that is a
    different story. Not to mention the money is cost to raise a child with
    food, clothing and other nessesities.

    
    Also note, it was stated yesterday that teenage pregnancy is at it's
    highest, and that these are not accidential pregnancies, these are kids
    who WANT to have a baby.
    
    Mary
    

>                      We never had any drug problems or pregnancy from my
>    graduating class and it was the best thing our school system did.

What about the ones who dropped out?

    .16
    
    >> You'd rather pay a larger bill for welfare?
    >
    > This is pure conjecture on your part. This argument is used often in
    > order to place high priced programs...
    
    ...in schools and other places.  Slick's highly touted program to
    provide free immunizations to all children was based on the premise
    that vaccines are expensive and that the immunizations are not covered
    by Medicaid.  Only problem, so it seems, is that the reason kids are not
    getting immunized isn't related to cost, it's related to such factors
    as lack of education, laziness, and fear of the medical establishment. 
    
    But we're still paying for all those bureaucrats.

    If there were pregnancy drop outs I did not know (unless they had an
    abortion) In my school we had a close class and word spred like
    wildfire if something like that happened to one of the students.
    
    and yes it is becoming a trend and these kids want to have babies they
    are not accidents. Sad really sad.

    
    
    Why does this type of education necessarily have to
    be "high priced"?!  I would think this type of program
    would cost much less than the home ec, wood shop, grapic 
    arts programs that schools provide now.  Of course I 
    don't know this for sure, but that would be my guess.
    
    Also, I think if you ask around in communities you'd 
    find people who'd be willing to volunteer their time to
    teach these type of classes.....
    
    /Kristin
    
    

    I'd hate to dump the home ec programs, though.  It's bad enough that
    3/4 of the adult population can't make a decent omelet, let's not dump
    any more people out there who aren't able to boil water without burning
    it.

    I think they ought to make it that any signs of abuse of the doll would
    be a felony and stiff penalties would follow.
    
    Let's really make it true to life!
    
    -Jack

Dick, when I went to school boys took shop and girls took home ec.
I'm a pretty good cook.  My wife's a better cook, but she took shop.

>    You'd rather pay a larger bill for welfare?

Help me out here.

How did it happen that we ended up with a society in which the first answer
is always "Well, we'll have to pay for it sooner or later"?

What happened to the teen mommas and their bebbes before someone decided
it was the government's responsibility to provide for them by stealing yet
more from the taxpayers? Don't tell me - let me guess. Some of them were
provided for by private charity and some of them starved and died.

Now, if you will, just for a moment, set aside the fact that this sounds
crass and uncaring and uncharitable (which of course it is), and tell me
what you think would happen if a few more of them got an opportunity to
see their kind starve and die.

Do you suppose, just maybe, that if they didn't expect to have a trough
at their disposal, they might reconsider how they shape their lives?

	I've got a better idea.

	Have those kids go spend 8-12 hours with a real baby on
	a really bad day (say, double ear infections and teething
	molars at the same time).  

	Cheap and effective, I'd say.

	Karen

    Just wondering, do they still teach reading, writing and arithmatic in
    schools or have these outdated courses been replaced by all these
    "helpful" social classes?  :-)
    
    ...Tom

    I took home ec and the best thing I make is reservations ;-)
    
    I know they want to eliminate many of these courses, and one of them is
    art, and for me that would be a bummer because I took every art class I
    could in school and was really into art and art study.
    
    I think sex and drug ed is mandatory and should be taught in all
    schools because this world is becoming too fast paced and kids are
    growing up much too fast. When my generation was 12 or 13 our most
    important concern was what new album did you get or worry about a zit
    on your face or who you had a crush on in school. 

  .27  reading my mind again, Jack.

>>                        -< the world is going to fast >-

	i predict an increase in world hunger then.

    
    >You'd rather pay a larger bill for welfare?
    
    similar logic was used in starting 95 federal programs for job training 
    to reduce welfare dependency.
    Net result is that welfare spending as well training program costs
    continues to grow at an alarming rate. Programs with obvious emotional
    appeal are usually easy to start but impossible to shut off.
     

    
    This "Baby think about it" program is not new.  I attended Chantilly
    High School in Fairfax, VA in 1991, and every student that took psych
    class (which was every junior and senior) had to participate in this
    program.  All of the teachers were monitors, and had the ability to
    turn us in to the "Child Protective Services" (aka principles office)
    at any time they felt that we were being abusive.  A lot of us students 
    found out that we were in no way fit to be parents.  Out of a
    graduating class of 635 socially and culturally diverse students, there
    was only one pregnancy (or at least only one baby born).
    
    AW

>    Just wondering, do they still teach reading, writing and arithmatic in

     Nope..they don't even teach spelling ;-)







    

    >Nope..they don't even teach spelling 
    
    I think I learned spelling in Health Class.  :)
    
    ...Tom

	I wonder how many of us would have our younguns if we'd have
	taken that course.

	Actually, make it more fun.  Give 'em two babies to bring home,
	and make one of them a 3 year old!

	

Did the Big Bopper teach the "Baby think about it" program at Chantilly
High School?

  make us act so funny, make us spend our money

    Who's the Big Bopper?
    

    I can't agree with taking any classes away.  Changing classes to fit
    the needs of today, yes. i.e change Home Ec. to a class in money
    management, and child care as was mentioned.
    
    In my opinion classes like woodshop, printshop and auto mechanics
    should be kept. Those could be the classes that the teenage parent
    may need to get a job to support themselves and their child. Being
    burdened with a child at such an early age makes it unlikely these kids
    will be going on to college so they will need some skill to support
    themselves and hopefully not be needing welfare.
    
    Don

>    Who's the Big Bopper?

Telling us you attended High School in 1991, it's no wonder that you'd
raise this question, I suppose.    

>    In my opinion classes like woodshop, printshop and auto mechanics
>    should be kept. Those could be the classes that the teenage parent
>    may need to get a job to support themselves and their child.

How about burgerflippingshop?

    It is like the Big Whopper ????????????????????? ;-)

                         -< You _know_ what I like... >-

>Did the Big Bopper teach the "Baby think about it" program at Chantilly
>High School?




 Nope.  It was JP Richardson

WHITEA, go to your local video shop and rent The Buddy Holly Story.

>    Who's the Big Bopper?
 



 ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH   

    re .42
    >>>   Who's the Big Bopper?
    Telling us you attended High School in 1991,it's no wonder that you'd raise
     this question, I suppose.
    
    Yeah, uh...  Who's the Big Bopper?
        

    >    How about burgerflippingshop?
    
    If that is the course they need to earn an honest living and not be on
    welfare, I'm for it.  They can bring home doggie bags to feed the
    little family. :-)

>    Yeah, uh...  Who's the Big Bopper?

Did you see "La Bamba"?

>>    Yeah, uh...  Who's the Big Bopper?

Some kind of ballplayer or somethin?!

 JP Richardson, aka The Big Bopper, is famous for his hit song "Chantilly Lace"
 released in 1957 or 58.  He died in the same plane crash as Buddy Holly.




 Jim

    
    Um...who's Buddy Holly?
    
    
    
    
    8^)

    
    
    .34  This time around, if similar "parenting simulation" class is
    	 done at jr & sr high school age, it would be DEFINITELY too
    	 late!!
    
         I think this program is sound and should be made widely available
    	 and strongly advocated. That doll should also have colitis (sp?),
         poop and pee every 1 hr and cry. The goal apart from teaching that
    	 this (having a baby) is NO TOY, is to remove the romance/fantasy
    	 attached to having a baby (as evident in print/radio/TV ads). 
    
    	 In days not so long ago, shame would be an effective deterrent,
         but I suppose it would be too politically incorrect :-( nowadays.
    
    	 IMO these are kids starving for affection and a sense of
         belonging/selfworth. Incredibly they think having babies is
    	 the panacea.  Y'know what really puzzles me is -- where are the
    	 parents in all this??? Do parents really have absolved their
         parenting responsibilities this badly??
    
         
    	 

    	The increase in teen pregnancies is not reality.  We only hear
    	about more of them because reporting of it has improved.

    No Joe,
    
    It is true.
    
    While there has been an increase in the last few years it is still
    lower than it was in the '50's.  Just those kids got married too young
    and then created the divorce issues and broken families that led up to
    the disrespect for marriage that some have today.
    
    72/1000 1950's vs 67/1000 1980's and into the 90's.

    <<< Note 483.56 by CSC32::M_EVANS "proud counter-culture McGovernik" >>>

>    72/1000 1950's vs 67/1000 1980's and into the 90's.
    
    	Those are numbers for births, not pregnancies.  And to amplify
    	the problem, the rate for out-of-wedlock pregnancies were
    	relatively constant from 1950 through 1962 (15/1000, mothers 
    	aged 15-19), but has since doubled so that in 1990 it was around 
    	30/1000.  So if overall births have dropped (I can't confirm 
    	that), then your numbers suggest that the percentage of out-of-
    	wedlock births is even more staggering than the raw numbers
    	might indicate.
    
    	Regardless of which of us is correct on this point, do you
    	agree with me that the current teen pregnancy rate (whatever
    	it is) is a problem for our society?

         <<< Note 483.57 by CSC32::J_OPPELT "He said, 'To blave...'" >>>


>    	Those are numbers for births, not pregnancies. 

	Joe would have us believe that there were no abortions in the 50's.

	Another Easter Bunny noter.

Jim

    >It's bad enough that 3/4 of the adult population can't make a decent omelet
    
     It's your eggs.

    re: .56
    
    Now there's an interesting analysis. 

re .58:

Jim, are you claiming that the number of abortions in the U.S. pre-Roe-v-Wade
approaches the number post-Roe-v-Wade?

    Any program that will keep children from having children outside of
    chastity belts attached until the age of 18 is a great idea. 
    Anyone who thinks that you going to support a woman and child for 18
    years on AFDC is out of touch with reality. The chances are that the
    woman will have more than children while on AFDC. And that its more
    like 25-30+years on the system. 
    
    The chances are that the children of the mothers on AFDC will also have
    children, and so on.... Anything is better than nothing, and nothing is
    going to only make lives miserable for all of us.
    
    I will agree with all who say that its a self infliced wound. But, hey,
    self inflicted or other wise, its a problem which all will take on...
    
    

   <<< Note 483.61 by NOTIME::SACKS "Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085" >>>

>Jim, are you claiming that the number of abortions in the U.S. pre-Roe-v-Wade
>approaches the number post-Roe-v-Wade?

	No. But the number "pre-Roe" was not zero, so it muddies the numbers
	a bit. If the 72/1000 number represents live births only, then the
	number of pregnancies had to have been higher.

Jim

    
    i think this program could be a very good idea.  when i was a senior in
    hs, in our psych class, we were to either choose to 'get married' or
    have a single household (i got married, my best friend remained single)
    for the sememster.  it included picking out a job, finding housing
    (whether it was renting or buying), determine expenses (household and
    personal) and have a kid (every one had one).  granted, this 'kid'
    (jaqueline ashley) was only a hollowed out egg shell, but we had to
    take it with us EVERYWHERE.  if i didn't have it with me, it was either
    with my 'hubby' or with a sitter.  took it to work.  took it to the
    mall...the teacher even popped into the store i worked in and checked
    on it... :>  any sign off abuse was reported to the teacher (we even
    had a trial at the end cuz one kid's egg accidently got cracked...)  it
    was a good experience (tho, i realize i hollowed out egg doesn't really
    compare to a 10 pound sack or an actual baby)...i like to see programs
    like this continued...as well as some of the others that some don't
    think are necessary.  home ec should be kept.  i am amazed at how many
    people can't sew on a button or cook anything beyond toast and tea.  i
    wish the girls in my jh *had* to take shop.  i wish my hs offered
    things like auto shop.  those things are more needed than you might
    think.  i hate having to pay someone to change my spark plugs when i am
    sure, if i had been taught how, i could do it myself...
    
    anyway...i think the program is a good idea.  and paying for it, as
    opposed to welfare (or prison), is a little easier for me to swallow.
    
    
    -raq
    
     

    	re .58
    
    	Now how did you jump to that conclusion, Jim?
    
    	And surely you can do better than resorting to insults in so
    	many of your replies...

    
    One more example of morality going done the crapper.  In days gone by
    girls who became pregnant while in school were chatised and looked upon
    as being cheap loose.  On more than one occasion a young lady would
    depart from school mid-year because of pregnancy.
    
    Today being pregnant is a badge of honor.  Twelve year old girls going
    on TV to proclaim that they are trying to get pregnant is upsetting. 
    Twelve year old girls should be playing with dolls not babies.  Where
    are the parents of these kids?  Were they 12 - 15 years old when they
    became parents, and in their minds this is "normal." 
    
    I believe the program would work.  I know of one school where they used
    a bag of flour.  The kids had to take care of the "baby" for a five day
    period.  Most kids gave up after day three.  My then 11 year old
    daughter participated and I believe it opened her eyes on how much
    responsibility and time is involved.  My daughter is now twelve and if
    she ever told me that she was considering having sex, never mind having
    a baby, well I would..... I don't know, but I know I be madder than
    hell.
    
    P.S.  How do I put one of those cute tag lines after my name?  All
    snarfs, flames and other insults will be ignored with regard to my
    ignorance.  

    Set Profile/personnal_name=" whatever "
    
    ..Tom

    
    You don't have to spell 'personal' correctly?

    
>>    You don't have to spell 'personal' correctly?

	it doesn't care.

    
    RE: .67
    
    Thanks Tom.
    

    >it doesn't care
    
    
    Nope, sure doesn't.

    
    You can even spell it "personnel"!
    
    I've heard of case insensitive, but...8^)

You can even spell in "persimmon."

 it's not the least bit persnickety.

    Does it appreciate all this airy persiflage?

	We might be able to persuade it...

    It accepts personhood, too.  You can't have a space before your p_name,
    however.

    Armed with this new knowledge, and if .66 is any indication, we
    should be in for some really profound work of p_name wisdom.
    Ayup.

    -b

See .70.  I'm disappointed.

  you'll have to give him pithy p_name lessons, gerald.

re .77:

>    It accepts personhood, too.  You can't have a space before your p_name,
>    however.

You can't?

    No, you can't, so stop that this instant!  8^)
    
    I tried to put one in my p_name, but it told me the first character
    must be alphabetic.
    
    -steve

>  you'll have to give him pithy p_name lessons, gerald.

Like this?

    
    
        ....We can find money and resources to give these kids condoms,
        ....We can find money and resources to give kids birth control
        pills,......We can find money to give kids some dumb ass doll,..
    
        ....why can't find money and resources to give these kids BOOKS,
        TELESCOPES,...MICROSCOPES,...things that'll stimulate these
        minds,..instead of things that stimulate what's in your,..PANTS!!
    
        Let's stimulate the mind........and postpone the libido!!
    
    
        Ed
    

>        ....why can't find money and resources to give these kids BOOKS,
>        TELESCOPES,...MICROSCOPES,...

'scuse me a minute.

I don't necessarily disagree with you in principle, but are you referring
to a particular instance of a school district which is whining because it
can't provide these basics but IS providing the rest? If so, I agree with
you in full. If you're just blowing smoke for the sake of presenting an
emotional argument, why not leave it alone? You're not impressing anyone.

    How dare you interrupt his rant?!!!

    re: .84

    How about adding salt peter to the meals that we provide....

    re: .85 & .86 

    This is the Soapbox,..... everyone is allowed to rant about their
    favorite subjects,..... even you two meat heads.....
    
    :-)
    Dan

Telescopes _can_ stimulate the libido.  It depends where you aim them.

    
    
    
      I'm not trying to impress anyone,...I'm just telling you the way it
      is,...the way I see It. There are two high schools in Boston that now
      offer day care services,.....a service that's needed,...no argument.
    
      The thing that bothers me is that the city can find the money to
      staff and feed these day care centers,.....but in that same school
      there's a continued shortage of books.
    
      My question is where does the educational material fall in the
      "pecking order". The latest figures that I read,..according to 
      The Boston Globe is that the Boston Public School budgetary
      breakdown is about $8,000.00 per student for this past fiscal year.
    
    
      For 8K,....might as well throw in a "doll".
    
    
      Ed

    >For 8K,....might as well throw in a "doll".
    
    Sorry, but with the doll the cost goes to 10K. It's probably worth it
    though.  :-)
    
    ...Tom

    
    
    Tom, they weren't talking about Balack and Decker(tm)
    blow up dolls.....
    
    
    
    
    
    :*)
    Terrie
    

    
    
      .91
    
       "Balack" and Decker,.........I like that.
    
      
      .90
    
    
       Tom,....wouldn't you agree that these kids are getting "short
       changed" at $8K per student. It's a disgrace.
    
    
       Ed

Are you sure about that $8K?  I doesn't sound right to me.

    >Tom,....wouldn't you agree that these kids are getting "short
    >changed" at $8K per student. It's a disgrace.
    
    As most know, I think the entire public education system in this
    country is a disgrace. If 8k is correct, I would bet that much of the
    money goes for the kind of social engineering being discussed in this
    topic.
    
    ...Tom
    
    
    Oh ya, and Terrie------------Hahahahahahahahahahaha, I like it!!

    
    
    Tom, is this really the place for admitting such depravity? (SP???) :*)
    How often do you need to recharge? :*)
    
    
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    
    
     Unless it was a typo. I think it's correct. I remember back in '90
     it was $6.5K per pupil. I know you're not gonna believe this,..but
     I'm presently looking at a copy of The Boston Globe dated Tuesday,
     October 20, 1992. I kept the "copy" 'cause they interviewed me 'bout
     my opinions regarding the school system,.....Anyway here's a few
     sentences,...."without permission":
    
     ........Boston spends $4.2 million of it's $449.8 million budget
     on instructional supplies. Between $55 to $71 is spent per pupil
     depending on grade level - the same amount spent in 1990.......
    
     I know this isn't saying what the cost per head his,....but I think
     you get an idea of where most of this money dosen't go.
    
     How far does $71.00 go,...when purchasing instructional text books?
    
    
     What's the cost of that "doll",...prior to "mark up" :-)?
    
    
     Ed

    
    
    First, he says 'cost per head', then he asks the price of the doll....
    
    
    
    Does this tell you something boys and girls???  :*)
    

    
    Down, Terrie!  Down, girl!
    
    

    
    
    Sorry Mz. Deb....that nasty raunchy sex joke I sent you earlier today
    started it, and I've been on a roll ever since. :*)
    
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    >First, he says 'cost per head', then he asks the price of the doll....
    
    >Does this tell you something boys and girls???  :*)
    
    Terrie is feisty today, I LIKE IT!!
    
    ...Tom

    
    
    :*)
    
    
    [I'm giggleing and spewing bread sticks!]
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Can you believe I missed a 100 SNARF. Ireally need to be more
    observant!
    
    ..Tom

    
    or to get a life

    POBOX::BATTIS 
    
        >or to get a life
    
    Hey Mr. Leech, BATTIS says you need to get a life!  :)
    
    ...Tom

    > Hey Mr. Leech, BATTIS says you need to get a life!  :)
    
    
    So?  Who listens to him, anyway?

    How much does it cost per doll? I think it is worth it to educate these
    kids into not having kids. If they see how much trouble taking care of
    the'doll' is, they might think twice about 'wanting' to get pregnant
    so they will have someone to love them (that is one of the reasons why
    a teen got pregant and we are talking pre-teens!)

     >think it is worth it to educate these kids into not having kids.
    
    I think it is a good Idea as well. It would be great for someone to
    start a program like this and convince parents to get involved.
    
    IT JUST DOESN"T BELONG IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS!!!
    
    ...Tom

    
    Why not??  Most of the problems in the public schools are not addressed
    by parents as it is, what makes you think you can convince parents to
    get involved??
    
    Mary
    

    I remember when I went to school,only 1 girl I knew of got pregnant.
    
    And she was a decent God fearing Catholic who wouldn`t dream of putting
    it about. I think she wuz about 15 or so. 
    
    

>    And she was a decent God fearing Catholic who wouldn`t dream of putting
>    it about.

So she didn't play golf?

    -108
    
    Not surprising if your schools were anything like ours.  The Cat'licks
    used to have notes from their parents requesting that they were excused
    from any sex education, religious education or even the opening prayer.
    The girls were a lot more ignorant about sex than your average teenager
    and more apt to get talked into things by some of the bad boys.
    
    Even the boys were not immune.  I remember a (probably apocryphal) tale
    about one younger boy who threw a fit because someone had shown him a
    copy of Titbits and he got an erection.   Apparently, the local priest
    had told them that if they ever did anything sinful with women, god
    would turn them to stone.  The kid thought that his willy was turning
    to stone.
    
    Colin
    
    
    
    

    >Most of the problems in the public schools are not addressed
    >by parents as it is, what makes you think you can convince parents
    >to get involved??
    
    So if they can't be convinced then you propose to force another program
    down their throats. Have I got that right? After all, each one of us
    knows what is best for everyone else!! :-)
    
    ...Tom

    
    Why can't the program be incorporated into one of the science or home
    economics programs? This doesn't mean a separate program needs to be
    established.  And treat the students as responsible human beings, allow
    them to help develop the program with the teacher, have them come up
    with things they think are necessary to raise a child, etc. 
    
    If the students want to play like adults, have them participate and be
    active in the program.  If there are those who do not want to
    participate, then allow it to be voluntary.
    
    I would be willing to bet that students would want to participate.
    
    Mary
    

    >I would be willing to bet that students would want to participate.
                                                                          
    At who's expense? I'll bet that they would be much less willing if they
    had to pay for it themselves.
    
    ...Tom

    A lot of parents will not talk to thier kids about sex, they think
    it is a taboo subject so they learn elsewhere like in school or on the
    streets and seeing sex shoved in thier face on MTV does not help
    either.
    
    When MTV came out it was the year I graduated high school and it was
    not that bad, now most videos involve sexual overtones of some shape or
    form. Not to mention other cable channels that show lots of sex.
    
    Kids see on TV so it is the 'in thing' to do. 

    
    .RE   .114
    
    I was not proposing the student paying for it nor did I say that.
    I was proposing to incorporate it into an already existing program.  
    
    Why not put it as part of the home economics program?? Seems to me that 
    would be a good fit instead of just teaching kids how to make an apron.  
    
    Mary
    

    >I was not proposing the student paying for it nor did I say that.
    >I was proposing to incorporate it into an already existing program.
    
    You think that makes it free?!?! In addition you will be forcing all
    students to take part even if they or their parents do not agree.
    
    ...Tom

    
    No, but your already paying for a course training kids to play house,
    so why not make it more realisitic??  
    
    You issue the dolls, and have kids keep a log, just like a home work
    assignment, and once a week or once a month you have
    them report on it.  Wouldn't take that much time out of the class or
    away from those students who do not wish to or their parents do not
    wish to participate.
    
    They can continue on in the class as usual, baking cookies and making 
    pot holders, or one of those other useless things they have you do in 
    home economics.
    
    

    re: .119
    
    Your assuming that the program is a good and effective one. Nothing has
    shown that this is the case. We have had programs like this added to
    the public school numerious times, each one costing the taxpayer money. 
    Each time the claim was made that it will significantly reduce the 
    targeted problem. Yet, now because the problem of teen pregnancy hasn't 
    been solved by these "sure to be successful" programs, we should add
    another one, right?. Let them spend their own money and leave mine alone.
    
    ...Tom 

    
    Your money is being spent regardless, on welfare checks issued out
    every month.
    
    

>    Your money is being spent regardless, on welfare checks issued out
>    every month.

And your money will be continued to be spent regardless even if'n welfare
checks cease. Like it says:

>                            -< Spending it anyways >-

TTom

    >Your money is being spent regardless, on welfare checks issued out
    >every month.
    
    Oh, then that makes it OK.
    
     NOT!!
    
    
    ...Tom

    >Your money is being spent regardless, on welfare checks issued out
    >every month.


Go back and read .27.

    I think money being spent on educating kids is a better investment then
    us paying welfare to support these children having children. 

        >I think money being spent on educating kids is a better investment then
        >us paying welfare to support these children having children.
    
    Well, duh!! The problem is that this has not been proven to be the
    trade-off. I repeat, program after program has been added to our public
    schools, at great cost to the taxpayer, with the welfare problem and
    teen pregnancy continuing to rise. We now think that by adding a dolly
    to the classrom these problems will be relieved. I say SHOW ME, and I'm
    not even from Missouri, before I have to pay for another program that
    has a very good chance of failing just like all the others.
    
    ...Tom

> 						I say SHOW ME, and I'm
>    not even from Missouri, before I have to pay for another program that
>    has a very good chance of failing just like all the others.

Hell, Tom, I'd even be willing to compromise on a plan that agreed to
TOTALLY ELIMINATE all of the damn programs that are already in place which
can be demonstrably proven not to work before they try to institute any
more!

    
    i was watching a comic on tv last night... he was talking
    about a school program which taught birth control to seven
    year olds... he wondered aloud if the teacher wrote on the
    blackboard:
    
    	"Jack and Jill went on the pill,
    	 and Jill retained some water..."
    
    -b

    
     I thought the teacher wrote it this way:
    
     "Jack and Jill went up the hill,
      Each had a quarter....
    
      Jill came down with 50 cents,
      You know they didn't go up for water!"