Conference back40::soapbox

    
      OK, OK.  I don't know Canadian politics.  I'll take 20 lashes.
    
      What parties are there in Ontario ?  How does it relate to the
     parties at the Canadian national level ?
    
      Yes, this was on the US news today.  But I couldn't relate, sorry.
    
      bb

    I'm happy about the photo radar. Glad Mike Harris saw it for the money
    grab that it was.
    
    First it's photo radar, then it's cameras in washrooms, they send you a
    picture along with a fine if you don't wash your hands.

    
    Perhaps they should point the cameras at the stalls and send you a
    picture along with a fine if you potty on your hands.

Bob and Ray are Canadians?

    
     This Note was accidentally posted here.
    Should have been in the Canada Conference.
    
     I've just posted it there.
    
    
     Sheepishly yours,
    Norm
    

    
    
    Norm, I'm glad you did.  There's room for discussion such as this in
    here and I hope to learn something about the Canadian political
    process/parties, etc.
    
    
    Mike

    
    	I always get CANADA and SOAPBOX mixed up too.
    
    	I have to work on my spelling.
    

>>    	I always get CANADA and SOAPBOX mixed up too.


	yeah, me too.  like one time, i asked someone how far it
	was to the soapboxian border, and they gave me a funny look.
	
	i suppose this means those aren't soapbox geese out on
	the lawn too.

    Di-
    
    It's ten inches ---> {<-->}
    
    Hope this helps :-)

    Because we can give it but we can't take it.

    
    I have nothing to fear under a Harris government...
    
    ...I'm an employed white male.
    

    How about what's over it?

    
    What's *over* it?  A bunch of soon-to-be-broken promises?
    

    do you fear this?

    
    I fear only fear itself.   ;^)
    

    
    <------   and the dentist

   ... and when the postman rings twice.:)

    
    >It's ten inches ---> {<-->}
    > 
    
    
    	Wow ... I'm huge then!!
    
    	A good 11 inches at least!!  8^)
    

They weren't talking about the space between your ears.

    Is this what they mean by a dashing man?

    lets see if I have this right, 2 dashes = 10", I'm a little confused
    though by the arrow heads at both ends.
    
    BTW are those capital dashes or lower case dashes, you know, capital
    dashes are only used when your.....er...well....nope...better not!!!

>>>       I'm sure we're all ecstatic about the repeal of the
     photo radar money grab, which happens to be first on the agenda.


So... do I pay the ticket for $95.00 I got in the mail a week or so ago or do 
I hope the new government clears the books???

    
    .2:
    
    Canadian Political Parties:
    
    Provincial:				National:
    ===========				=========
    
    Libertarian				Libertarian
    (not unlike your Libertarians)
    
    Family Coalition			Family Coalition
    (platform consists of anti-abortion, pro-religious agenda)
    
    no Reform Party yet,		Reform Party
    	but soon...			(similar to your Republicans)
    
    Progressive Conservative		Progressive Conservative
    (similar to right-wing-flavoured Democrats)
    
    Liberal				Liberal
    (similar to left-wing-flavoured Democrats)
    
    New Democrats			New Democrats
    (farther left than your Democrats)
    
    Natural Law				Natural Law
    (wacked-out yogic flyers)
    
    not sure if there is a		Communist Party
    provincial Communist Party		(consistently poor showings)
    or equivalent
    
    There was a `National Party' in the last Federal election, but it broke
    up in disunity.  They would have been between the Liberals and the
    New Democrats.
    

>               -< Oh, and the `Bloc Quebecois', but who cares? >-

Prolly those Francophiles.

Youse guys must have interesting ballots . . . 

    
    The ballots have ONLY the names on, in alphabetical order.  No party
    affiliations are listed on the ballot.
    

    
    Hey, Don...
    
    Quick...name the BQ candidate who ran in my riding in the last
    Federal election.
    

    
    Good comeback.  However, as you well know, there is still a difference;
    namely, that the BQ is set up to represent ONLY the interests of a
    specific region (Quebec).  This is not the case with the Reform Party.
    
    When Lucien decides that being part of Canada is okay by him, then
    he will be okay by me.  If all he wants is out, then I DON'T give a 
    rat's ass about the BQ.
    

    
    As an outsider, you are neglecting to consider how non-fracophones
    are treated in Quebec.  Not exactly a warm and fuzzy situation.
    They claim it is necessary to preserve their culture.  I can buy that
    to a point, but when it's all take and no give, well...
    
    Sorry, Don.  The BQ is simply not interested in being part of Canada.
    If they were planning to represent Quebec's interests within a united
    Canada, then I might be more generous towards them.  They're not.
    They want out.  Period.  That does not make them a national party in
    Canada as far as I'm concerned.
    

    
      Gee, so many parties.  I'd feel like I do with all those ice
     cream flavors - I stand there for minutes in stasis, then pick
     chocolate or vanilla.
    
      How do you ever get a majority ?
    
      bb

    
    re: .36
    
    >Gee, so many parties.
    
    
    I would be careful about making statements like this... You'll have
    mz_deb wondering when the next one will be...
    

One problem we have these days is that there's no "national" opposition party.

This isn't a new situation.  For many years the Liberals governed Canada with a
solid Quebec base and representation from across the country, while PCs formed
the opposition, with little or no Quebec representation.  Mulroney won a lot of
seats for the PCs in Quebec in th '80s by allying with Quebec nationalists
(many of whom are now back in the separatist camp.)  He was unable to reconcile 
the conflicting visions and aims of the Quebec nationalists and
English-Canadian right, and the PC vote splintered in the last election, with
the BQ getting the Quebec nationalist vote and the English-Canadian Conservative
vote going to Reform (at least from Ontario west.)  Meanwhile the mainly
English -Canadian social-democratic 3rd party, the NDP, also was almost wiped
out (federally - they still govern B.C. and Saskatchewan.)

So the Official Opposition is a bunch of separatists who are disregarded
outside Quebec, for the obvious excellent reason that their policy aims at the
breakup of the country.  The BQ's leader, Lucien Bouchard, is popular in 
Quebec but mistrusted everywhere else (though people sympathized with his 
desperate fight against the "flesh-eating" disease last winter.)  
                                                                              
The 2nd opposition party, Reform, is a bunch of conservatives,
most of whom had never sat in Parliament, who so far have been pretty
ineffectual.  There's almost no Left in Parliament, so the Liberals have had
the whole area to the right of Reform to maneuvre in.  

The only truly "national" federal party at this point is again the Liberals.

-Stephen  

    
    .35:
    
    I can see your point about the Reform Party.  My guess is that they
    do eventually plan on moving into Quebec, perhaps at the next federal
    election.  The size of the voter pool is too large for them to ignore,
    as they learned in the last election.
    
    They will, of course, have to move more to the centre to appeal to
    Quebec voters, and that *could* be their undoing nationally.
    

    My 2nd-last sentence in .38 should read "...to the left of Reform..."
    (not "to the right").
    
    -Stephen

    I could never vote Reform anymore than I could vote BQ. They represent
    the polarization that has happened due to the failure of the Meech Lake
    Accord.

re .28:

>    The ballots have ONLY the names on, in alphabetical order.  No party
>    affiliations are listed on the ballot.
    
Do your minor parties try to run people with names like "Aaaalfred Aaaaabbot"
to get the #1 spot on the ballot?

How much of Canada (percent of population) is Ontario?

    
    Note 459.42:
    
>Do your minor parties try to run people with names like "Aaaalfred Aaaaabbot"
>to get the #1 spot on the ballot?
    
    Apparently, some 5-10% of voters simply pick the first name on the
    ballot.
    
    There was a scandal in Mississauga during the last municipal election, 
    regarding a candidate who fielded a dummy candidate (whose last name 
    began with B) to try and rob one of his opponents (who would otherwise 
    have been first on the ballot) of this advantage. 

>How much of Canada (percent of population) is Ontario?
    
    Offhand, I'd say about 35-40%.  I can look it up when I get home.
    
    jc
    

    As I recall, when John N. Turner was leading the Liberal party, a minor
    candidate also named John Turner (with some other middle initial) got
    his name on the ballot in Turner's constituency.  I think it was
    removed before the election...
    
    -Stephen
    

    
  > a candidate who fielded a dummy candidate
    
    In matters politic, how could anyone know the difference?

    Canadian Politics is very similar in function to the British system. 
    If you are interested in determining how the system works, then I would
    suggest renting or watching the British Comedy series 'Yes Minister',
    and 'Yes Prime Minister'.  They pretty much hit the nail on the head
    with this one. The three main parties align pretty much with the
    Canadian system, with the Liberals, Conservatives, and the Labor
    Party (New Democrats in Canada).  I have been a Canadian all my life,
    and voting since I was 18 (much too long ago), and I have yet to figure
    anything that makes sense of all this.
    	In general, the parties are in fact figure heads, with mandates
    that they think are important, but need approval by the Civil Servants,
    or it just ain't going to fly...so like the British system, the
    government is pretty much run by the Civil Servants, and these people
    are not elected.
    
    Rod (a slightly right of center left wing conservative)

    
    Note 459.37 by SOLVIT::KRAWIECKI "Be vewy caweful of yapping zebwas" 
    
   
    > I would be careful about making statements like this... You'll have
    > mz_deb wondering when the next one will be...
    
    
    Well, now that you mention it...
    

CALLME::MR_TOPAZ
    
>>Who ignores the BC and PQ?  Those anglophones who obstinately
>>refuse to recognize and/or accept the notion that Canada was
>>formed of many cultures, and not just an English one.
    
    I cannot see why you would say this about a country that has policy
    that promotes multi-culturalisim. Heck I think we even had a ministry
    for it.

>>Canada, and since Manning makes no effort to include Qu�bec in his
>>party, this outsider perceives the Reformists as a national party
>>only if the nation is defined as the ROC.
    
    I suppose you missed his foray into Quebec. The reform party is making
    plans to field candidates in Quebec in the next federal election. 
    
     I myself have no time for either the Bloc or Reform, as mentioned
    earlier, they are a bad hangover from the Mulroney era.
    
    
    							Derek.
    

    Well, our provincial government actually fulfilled one of their major
    election promises. The latest budget will phase in a 30% provincial tax
    reduction, making Ontario the 4th lowest in the country.
    
    Ernst & Young have created a web-page that will allow you to calculate
    how much the tax cut will save you.  It can be found at 
    http://www.eycan.com
    
    The government is also including a box on the next tax form for those
    people complaining that the money should have gone towards the deficit
    - if they mark it off, any tax refund they would have gotten will go
    right towards paying off the debt.  Do you think there will be any
    takers?