Conference back40::soapbox

    
    As a suburb-raised kid from SoCal I watched as the strawberries
    and tomtoes gave way to house tracts, uniform pattern-built
    ticky-tack generic housing units that as the acticle described,
    isolated neighbors and neighborhoods from one another. We kids
    lost our tree house trees, our vast fields of weeds, and abandoned
    farm building where we used to play over the space of year from
    1961, until by the time I was 15, there was nowhere that wasn't
    either a house, a shopping center or strip mall, paved, or a lawn.
    
    I now live back in the hills, in preference to the sorry suburban 
    mess San Jose and vicinity have become. Palo Alto is modeling its
    new developments as the article suggests. 
    

    Sounds like someone is trying to play Sim-City in real life...
    
    I gave up, it ate up too much of my spare time.

If I interpret the basenote correctly, the style of suburbanism they're
aiming for sounds pretty much like where I'm living.  It's very boring.

Chris.

    Just two months ago I moved out of "Kanata" a suburb of Ottawa Ontario
    Canada. I was born in a 'downtown' environment and actually enjoyed the
    first three years of suburban living. The wide open spaces, nobody
    around, very clean. During the forth year here I became numb with
    the sameness out here. I dont and never have had a car and like this
    article points out ( i havent read it but will ) and know exactly what
    it means. Actually the straw that broke the camels back and set to
    looking for a new place to live was when on a beautiful evening last
    August I approached a corner of a mainish intersection at about the
    same time as a car, do you think the car would let me walk across the
    street slowly enjoying the beautiful air and sky and birds and life and
    stuff? Not a chance, the guy, ( I prefer to call car drivers "it" but
    for politeness sake I'll say guy this time) screamed around the corner
    cutting me off in half stride. I left.

There's definitely something wrong with the denizens of SUBURB.

    
      Yeah, it's a real crisis that I'm not physically closer to my
     neighbors.  We must need a massive government bureaucracy to
     fix me up.
    
      bb

Sadly, it appears that SUBURB:: is reaching the end of its life, as
all UK all-in-1 facilities are being moved onto CHEFS:: and WOTVAX::.
The end of an era... :(

Chris.

    	What's the matter with the burbs? I like them just the way they
    are. I have lived in N.Y.C. and suburbs from Mass. to Fla. as well as
    in the middle of nowhere.
    
    	Who wants to live near work or shopping centers. They're smelly 
    dirty, noisy and traffic clogged. Living in a housing tract gives a
    sense of community. You can have privacy or socialize if you want.
    
    	Suburbs are also located between all the "intellectual" attractions
    of a bigger city and the "great outdoors". 
    
    	Sound like another pipe dream to blow taxpayers money on fixing
    something that ain't broke or just a new fad...

    .8
    
    > What's the matter with the burbs?
    
    I choose to live in the city.  The burbs are inconvenient.
    
    My city residence is within easy walking distance of schools, shopping,
    churches, government, cultural events, and other amenities.  In the
    burbs, I would be within walking distance of few or none of these
    things; instead, I'd be forced to join the road warriors out there in
    the smog and noise.
    
    I do have to admit, though, that my home sits on a serene 1.3 acre lot,
    of mostly wooded land, in a quiet residential neighborhood.  Not all
    city dwellers have it so nice.

    Boy, if this doesn't sound like more pop-culture psycho-babble.  People
    have the ability to live where they want and accept the benefits and
    pitfalls of each.
    
    People moved to the suburbs to obtain things that they could not get in
    the urban areas.  If they want to move back to the urban areas they
    can.
    
    The concept of telling people that they are wrong and have been for 50
    years is ludicrous on it's surface and arrogant in it's details.
    
    I lived in both environments and would not consider moving to, or
    living in, an urban area again.  I like the idea of having space to do
    the things I want without having to hear my neigbors dinner
    conversations.
    
    I will agree that transportation between suburbs is a problem, but
    certainly not insumountable with minimal effort and expense.
    
    This group of researchers have all the ear marks of a new government
    pork barrel project.
    

>    The concept of telling people that they are wrong and have been for 50
>    years is ludicrous on it's surface and arrogant in it's details.

  The proponents of the New Urbanism are not saying that "people" have been
doing the wrong thing for 50 years. They are saying that developers have been
doing the wrong thing and that people had no real choice. Not that developing
suburbs was, in itself, a mistake but that developers didn't do it right. A
telling statement in the article is "You can't buy the house you want if there
is no such house for sale."
    
>    This group of researchers have all the ear marks of a new government
>    pork barrel project.
    
  This is not intended as a "government project". In fact, it would be much
better if the federal government didn't spend a lot of money on this, because
when Uncle Sam does things, they tend to screw it up. What government at all
levels needs to do is to spend a SMALL sum of money on making this possible
(by revising regulations etc.) and let the architects, designers, and other
private sector proponents of the New Urbanism drive it.

  Another thing: The New Urbanism doesn't mean living "in the city". It may
mean living closer to the central city. The name "New Urbanism" is sort of
misleading.

>    	Who wants to live near work or shopping centers. They're smelly 
>    dirty, noisy and traffic clogged. Living in a housing tract gives a
>    sense of community. You can have privacy or socialize if you want.
    
  I agree, and I think this is one of the faults of this article. 50 years
ago, living next to a small store was OK. Today, even the smallest stores
generate truck traffic at all hours of the day and night, as well as large
volumes of trash and, during business hours, car traffic. A typical mini-
store has every product delivered by a separate truck, some of which are
18-wheelers. A bread truck, a beer truck, a soda truck, a milk truck, a
potato-chip truck, a general-merchandise truck, etc.  I lived 300 feet from
such a store for a while 10 years ago and I saw all of these. And perhaps
the worst noise generator of all is the contract hauler emptying the dump-
ster at 7 am, if not earlier.
  Most of the New Urbanism designers have enough sense to recognize this,
and are designing for buffer zones between stores and homes. By putting stores
"close" to homes, they mean walking distance. Peter Calthrope's rule is to
put all homes within 1/4 mile of a "village center", that includes small
stores.

    Walking distance in the burbs is from the house to the garage or if
    you've misplaced your remote, form the couch to the remote. I've never
    met a lazier bunch of ........Burbs are for birds.
    

    Oh yes, it is much better walking in a city. Maybe behind a
    bus that is belching black smoke, or avoiding a pile of 
    something on the sidewalk, or walking around the homeless who are
    following you down the street for a dollar. Maybe the occasional
    sprint as you try to out run a mugger (or worse). Yup that sounds
    like a great way to live....NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
	P.S. not everyone that lives in the suburbs is weight challenged.
    

    .14
    
    Obviously, I live in a better city than yours.

    
>>    Obviously, I live in a better city than yours.

	Oh right, next step up - Shangri-la. ;>

    Or Ottawa. ;')

    
    
    
    RE: Shangri-La
    
    
    You must have watched 'Wheel of Fortune' the other night too. :*)
    
    
    
    
    
    Terrie
    

    
>>    You must have watched 'Wheel of Fortune' the other night too. :*)

	no, ma'am, i surely didn't.

    

	 .20  that's more like it, yes.