Conference back40::soapbox

    it would be easy to dismiss these two as crackpots. it would also be
    dangerous. some very influential people are taking it seriously. i
    obtained the info for .0 from today minneapolis star tribune paper. it
    was on teh FRONT PAGE and continued to cover another FULL page
    highlighting the benefits of such a program. Lykken and Westman are
    senior members of the HHH Insititue for Social Change, long time
    proponents of social order and change, and a government mandate to
    fulfill our right to peaceful co-existence.
    
    personnally, i think people like this should be taken out behind the
    barn and give a long fall with a short rope for the betterment of the 
    species. and the liberal left wing whacko's are bitchin about newts
    alledged statements. here are a couple of their very own showing
    exactly the kinds of policy that would be enacted if teh loony left
    ever gets serious power.

    Un-freaking-believable, Gene.  I'll fly the rope to minisoda
    if you're caught short.
    
    joanne
    

    i've got lots of rope joanne. unfortunately, in this part of the
    country these kind of left wing thinking whackos are the majority. i
    call it the HHH disease of social change. glad i'm moving outta here
    shortly.

    No kiddin...  wait'll someone gets wind of it here in the PRM
    and finds it to be a brilliant plan.
    
    Thank God I'm just 4 miles from the state line.  We can escape
    by land or water to New Hampshire if need be!
    

    	I can see positives in this.  But I see too many negatives --
    	greatest of which is that it is too Big Brother-ish.

    	Great. Now the state wants to be God of your children.
    
    	This is sheer lunacy.  I've seen the topic come up B4 in
    	political circles, and thankfully it's always gone the
    	way of the DoDo.  
    
    

>    	I can see positives in this.

Tell us about some of them, why don't you.

    
    Well.  I don't agree with the actual LICENSING stuff, but what's wrong with
    expecting those who spawn to be married, self supporting, of age, law
    abiding, and sane?
    
    My parents were all of these.  I suppose I turned out ok.  Where's the
    advantage in having a teenaged single parent drug addict on welfare as
    your mother?  There's none.  IMHO of course.

    
    sounds like YA communitarian scheme for yet more control by the
    selfsame elite that gave us hillary health care. 
    
    

    
    >Well.  I don't agree with the actual LICENSING stuff, but what's wrong with
    >expecting those who spawn to be married, self supporting, of age, law
    >abiding, and sane?
    
    nothing, dearest. but that's not really the issue. the vast minority of
    people in this country are contributing to the vast majority of the
    problems. many of us believe that implementing government programs that
    basically hassle EVERYONE for the problems of a few is wrong.
    especially when the government can be cited as the chief culprit and
    source of the problems.
    
    you get what you reward. its a simply fact of nature. current
    government programs reward the wrong kind of behavior. i say fix that.
    and leave the rest of us law abiding citizens alone.

    >Well.  I don't agree with the actual LICENSING stuff, but what's wrong
    >with expecting those who spawn to be married, self supporting, of age,
    >law abiding, and sane?
    
    well, when i was born, my parents were married, self-supporting, of
    age, law abiding (for the most part) and sane...and tho i have turned
    out relatively ok, i still say neither one of my parents should have
    had kids.  
    
    i don't think one should have a license to have kids.  that's just too
    damn ridiculous.  however, a little education never hurt anyone.
    
    

    .4 Great! 
    
    >We can escape by land or water to New Hampsire if need be!
    
    Less of course, the boarder guards close the crossing points! 

    Seems like the fringes of the right and left are in agreement here.  I
    am surprised Newt didn't come up with it first, but he probably hasn't
    had time to read Science fiction, just to write racy novels.  
    
    These people are definitely NOT pro-choice, they are pro-control of
    other peoples' lives.  
    
    meg

    
    RE: 13
    
    Hadda get that dig against Newt, huh Meg?
    
    
    RE: .12
    
     "boarder guards"?  Must be the ones gettin on the boats!! :) :)
    

    Actually, I believe the idea has some merit to it.  I don't believe it
    needs to be implemented amongst the masses but I do believe it should
    be implemented to those requesting government assistance.
    
    Of course feminists are going to decry reproductive rights...even if
    we're paying for it!
    
    -Jack

    Me thinks I will take that the JMartin point. What rights are there in
    this equation for those who have NO vested interest here? So 14 year
    old gets herself a baby,  her beau boogies to points unknown. The world
    is not taxed to the point of bankruptcy to support them..... What
    rights are there for those who are cursed to work to support these
    people who have their 'reproductive rights'? You have you rights, and
    you support your problem and stay out of my pocket. Cruel and in human
    as it sounds... where is the fairness for the rest of the working
    class?

    Big brother is watching your children.  Nothing new, but a very bold
    and obvious attempt to solidify the control they already have.  Those
    that prefer to homeschool and send their children to private schools
    must be controlled somehow (since the government has failed at doing
    away with homeschooling, though they are not yet done trying...they
    hate not controlling the textbooks and curriculum of private and
    homeschools).
    
    Of course, I'm fairly paranoid about anything the government does these
    days.  I frequently pray for gridlock, as even the seemingly good bills
    that are passed are loaded with thousands of pages of GARBAGE, which
    makes the good parts the minority.  Anyone know why all bills in this
    generation seem to be litterally THOUSANDS of pages long?  So they can
    hide stuff in it, that's why.  Most sedate muricans will not even
    attempt to thumb through thousands of pages of government-speak (very
    boring stuff), much less study what is being implemented.
    
    I have more hope of gridlock now that we have a Repub congress...though
    I still don't trust them.  Too much weird global stuff going on to suit
    me.  Besides, technically, via the new crime LAW, I am a terrorist (I
    speak out against the government frequently).  Check the bowels of the
    law that was passed...particularly the "domestic terrorism" section. 
    Scary stuff.  So vague that even patriots like myself can be labelled
    as terrorists.
    
    God save this nation. 
    
    
    -steve

    
    Gene, what kind of idgits live in minisoda?? Can't believe they
    are actually thinking about this!! I can see why your happy to be
    leaving.
    
    Mark

	.10
        
>    >Well.  I don't agree with the actual LICENSING stuff, but what's wrong with
>    >expecting those who spawn to be married, self supporting, of age, law
>    >abiding, and sane?
>    
>    nothing, dearest. but that's not really the issue. 
    
    	You never gave this a chance, Gene.  Someone asked me what I saw
    	as possible positives to this proposal, and someone else replied
    	with something similar to what I would have said.  That's all it
    	is -- some things that *ARE* positive in the proposal.  Nobody is
    	saying that these positives outweigh the negatives.  Nobody is
    	saying that this is a good proposal.  All that I was saying is
    	that there are a few positive nuggets among all the lumps of
    	dirt in this pile, and I think a lot of people would agree with
    	that.

Note 192.18 by POBOX::BATTIS 
    
    >Gene, what kind of idgits live in minisoda?? Can't believe they
    
    left wing loonies.
    
    

    >I still don't trust them.  Too much weird global stuff going on to suit
    >me.  Besides, technically, via the new crime LAW, I am a terrorist (I
    >speak out against the government frequently).  Check the bowels of the
    >law that was passed...particularly the "domestic terrorism" section. 
    
    i've brought this up in several conversations around here. these dims
    don't believe it. yet they REFUSE to read the bill even when i present
    it to them. they are like lambs to the slaughter.

    -1   Too true, Gene.  Voluntary ignorance is a sad thing, at best.  I
    won't even go into what it is at worst.
    
    -steve

    re: .9 -
    
    I am a law abiding citizen, a self-supporting person, and I had a child
    before I was married.  I do not think that marriage is necessarily a
    pre-requisite to proper child-rearing.  In fact, even though I am now
    married to the child's father, I do not necessarily agree (at this
    time) that this made the child any happier, safer, better off.  
    
    I *do* think that it isn't Big Brother's job to tell me whether or 
    not I am "capable" of being a good parent.  I am incensed at the 
    invasion of human rights that this bill represents, and wonder how this
    would be enforced!  Are women who didn't apply for or are denied a 
    license forced to have an abortion?  Are their tubes tied for them? 
    Are men given vasectomies?  Or does Big Brother simply steal their
    children, should they dare to have any, based upon some judgemental set
    of rules created by the holier-than-thou set?  
    
    Humph!  Both the human and the fiscal condition in this country are in
    pretty dire straits, but that does not mean that we should take
    desperate, tyrannical measures to counter it.  The next thing you know,
    these (expletive)-heads will be telling us that we should strangle
    girl-babies because there are more women than men, which means that a
    portion of the women may never marry, have kids, etc., and they could
    become a burden upon the State in their senior years!
    
    Double-humph!
    
    M.
    

>I am incensed at the invasion of human rights that this bill represents,

What bill?

    I commend you for your parental abilities...I have three myself and my
    wife and I planned things out.  They pretty much worked the way we
    planned them.
    
    Statistically, children of one parent families are more likely to
    commit suicide, drop out of school, lean toward crime, and end up in
    jail.  These are the facts plain and simple.  Statistically, your child
    is better off.  In actuality, it may be different.  
    
    I too would find this to open a pandoras box.  I do stand once again on
    my convictions that if young women are looking for assistance, then
    some of these measures should be considered.  A perfected Norplant
    would be ideal.  It would be at the users choice, it is birth control,
    there would be less unwanted children, and women who have children 
    would have to graduate from high school, hold down a job, prove their
    competence as parents, and get married.  
    
    I fail to see why this is unreasonable.  It is a good compromise to the
    prolife/prochoice dilemna, there would be far less abuse and neglect, 
    and a national trend would eventually be reversed.
    
    Rgds.,
    
    -Jack 

    Sorry if it came across like I was switching channels.  I feel this
    policy would open a pandoras box for the self sufficient.
    
    -Jack

    .19
    
    Well, I suppose if my dog ate a gold nugget , a few days later I could
    see something positive in his...well, you know.
    
    

    Make sure you enroll your children into Social Security ASAP....

    Dreadful idea, though I don't follow the left-wing smear, unless it has
    to do with Gene's habit of blaming everythig but his bad teeth on
    anyone to the left of Attila the Hun.
    
    The whole thing reeks of the foolish assumption that the poor are worse
    parents the the non-poor, that we must control the lives of the poor
    for their own good.
    
    I suppose you could say it had a liberal edge in its assumption that
    children are people and should not be the mere chattel of their
    parents, but it sure looks like the bulk of it is stuff that Newt et al
    would love.
    
    Kit

Note 192.29 by DOCTP::BINNS
    
    >Dreadful idea, though I don't follow the left-wing smear, unless it has
    >to do with Gene's habit of blaming everythig but his bad teeth on
    >anyone to the left of Attila the Hun.
    
    i gots good teeth!!!
    
    and attila was a liberal.