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Conference back40::soapbox

Title:Soapbox. Just Soapbox.
Notice:No more new notes
Moderator:WAHOO::LEVESQUEONS
Created:Thu Nov 17 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:862
Total number of notes:339684

191.0. "Testing Pentium Chips" by SCAPAS::MAPPED::MOORE (I'll have the rat-on-a-stick) Sat Dec 17 1994 12:15

    
    Test out your Pentium:
    
    Use the Windows calculator to perform the following:
    
    1. Divide 4,195,835 by 3,145,727.
    
    2. Multiply the result of 1) by 3,145,727.
    
    3. Subtract 4,195,835 from the result of 2).
    
    4. If the result is 0, your chip is fine.
    
       If the result is -256, you've got a hosed chip.
    
    If your chip is hosed, call 1-800-628-8686 to order a replacement.
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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191.1AIMTEC::MORABITO_PHotlanta RocksMon Dec 19 1994 15:0912
I was listening to this radio talk show the other night.  Some rep of Intel
was on.  He gave out the formula mentioned by the basenote.  However, just
proving that you have a defective chip is not enough.  The 800 number will
get you a person that will interrogate you about what software you are 
running before giving you a replacement chip.  Many callers were quite
upset about this.  I think if there is a problem with the chip they should
just replace them no questions asked.  

It's kind of enjoyable watching Intel screw up like this.

Paul
191.2SMURF::BINDERvitam gustareMon Dec 19 1994 15:189
    .1
    
    > no questions asked.
    
    exactly.  my attitude would be "i bought a computer.  it's none of your
    damn business what i'm using it for - it's defective, and it's under
    warranty, and you owe me a fix."
    
    see 11.706 for my opinion about good service.
191.3AIMTEC::MORABITO_PHotlanta RocksMon Dec 19 1994 15:5616
I just remembered some other things this dude from Intel said.   Intel is 
either an arrogant company or this guy got fired.

	- "Please be patient with the people on the 800 number, their real
	   job is not dealing with the public"

	- Blasted IBM for making a big issue out out of the floating point
	  problem, and saying they are doing so because of power pc.  
	
	- Couldn't tell an engineering student for sure if AutoCAD would
	  get messed up by the problem.   The student told him that he
	  wouldn't purchase a pentium in the near future.


Paul
191.4Is the FPU used in graphics?TNPUBS::JONGSteveMon Dec 19 1994 16:021
   Don't you do a lot of floating-point divides to render graphic images?
191.5SX4GTO::OLSONDoug Olson, SDSC West, Palo AltoMon Dec 19 1994 16:0313
    >	- Blasted IBM for making a big issue out out of the floating point
    >	  problem, and saying they are doing so because of power pc.  
    
    Intel is wrong to be blasting IBM for 'making a big deal' - but Intel
    is absolutely right to point out that IBM has a vested interest in
    preventing Pentium from gaining ground until PowerPC systems get more
    market share. 
    
    The way I see it, we're positioned pretty well - we'll keep selling
    Pentiums to customers who want them, and we're letting IBM and Intel
    have a war, while we stand aside.  Hope they really do...
    
    DougO
191.6SMURF::BINDERvitam gustareMon Dec 19 1994 16:063
    .4
    
    yes.
191.7Serves them right for asking 8^)TNPUBS::JONGSteveMon Dec 19 1994 16:083
   Well, then, Mr. Operator, my pornographic artwork is not rendering
   correctly, and I demand a new Pentium chip.  You got a problem with
   that?
191.8TINCUP::AGUEDTN-592-4939, 719-598-3498(SSL)Mon Dec 19 1994 20:1711
    I think Intel is getting a raw deal, but I also think they're "solving"
    the problem the wrong way.  Instead of their statistical analyses on
    why you won't get hurt by their chip for another 27,000 years, they
    should simply replace the chip for those who care.
    
    I find it quite analogous the way Intel's scientists are arguing their
    case similar to the way the Tobacco Industry's argue their case: "very
    few people are actually inhaling, and besides those who are inhaling
    aren't affecting any significant digits."
    
    -- Jim
191.9More Pentium humorLJSRV2::KALIKOWSERVE<a href="SURF_GLOBAL">LOCAL</a>Mon Dec 19 1994 21:1267
Subj:	FWD: :-) How the Grinch ruined the Pentium!
From: [email protected]
Pentium related humor even *I* understand!
 ----------

How the Grinch stole our vision of perfect objects

Every Coder in Codeville liked objects a lot.
"Tested," "reusable," that's what was hot.
But the Grinch of reality sulked in his cave
Saying, "Hear them all talk of the time that they'll save!"

The Grinch hated Coders, and liked them to sweat.
He thought, "I can make them unhappy, I'll bet!"
He read through 12 texts, then looked up with a grin:
"Why, this is as good as original sin!"

He read with a chortle, "An object or class
Is like a black box hiding all that it has.
Its details invisible: All that you know
Is what should go in and what answers will show."

He slunk to the West Coast and into a lab
Where chip engineers were at work in their fab.
He heard their boss saying, "Forget testing tricks:
This one is the same as a 486!"

His chance had now come. From their math microcode
He struck out one line as it went to download.
And the Grinch watched with barely containable glee
As the chips with their bugs shipped across land and sea.

And each of those chips went to some happy buyer
Where some just played games, but most were for hire
Sending up spacecraft or buying up stocks
Or predicting the timing of quake aftershocks.

Then the bug story broke! And the Grinch was alarmed.
This news came too early!  Too few had been harmed!
But the Grinch soon calmed down, as the months marched on by
And the chip-making people continued to lie.

"We fixed it!" they said, and now that was quite funny:
You couldn't get fixed chips for love or for money.
"It's really no problem," they added in chorus.
"The errors are rare. Stop whining, you bore us."

So everywhere, Coders were having to ask
"Just how does this chip do its float-divide task?
" Internals that they had been told to ignore
Now had to be studied in blood and in gore.

The leading bit patterns whose answers were wrong
And whether the errors were carried along,
All had to be thoroughly well understood
So the Coders could know if their answers were good.

And the Grinch went off happy. He knew that they'd learned
That quality output still has to be earned.
Beyond "Merry Christmas," they'd learned something greater:
"If you don't test it now, you'll just debug it later."

 - -- With apologies to the late Theodore Geisel

Peter Coffee

 ------- End of Forwarded Message
191.10ALPHAZ::HARNEYJohn A HarneyTue Dec 20 1994 11:177
    As of this morning (20-Dec-1994) Intel has agreed to
    replace the flawed Pentium chips upon request.

    Too bad Digital didn't take the stand when it mattered.

    \john
191.11AXP rules...but we haven't checked the division table yet.SCAPAS::GUINEO::MOOREI'll have the rat-on-a-stickWed Dec 21 1994 01:103
    
    <-- The big mistake was that DEC didn't seize the opportunity
        to promote the AXP chip.
191.12SMURF::BINDERvitam gustareWed Dec 21 1994 08:225
    .11
    
    chip makers don't habitually jump on each other's bugs.  who knows, the
    next major bug to come to light may be in an Alpha chip, and then DEC
    (pardon me, Digital) would be left with meadow muffins on its face.
191.13Intel - thumbs down. IBM - thumbs down.PERFOM::LICEA_KANEwhen it&#039;s comin&#039; from the leftWed Dec 21 1994 08:5559
    The bottom line.
    
    Intel never understood why this was such a big deal.
    IBM piled on, and got the analysis wrong.
    
    Intel - egg on face for being so stupid.
    IBM - egg on face for so transparently promoting PowerPC.
    
    -----
    
    Yo, Intel - This was *not* a simple hardware Mean Time Between Failure
    (MBTF) or Failure In Time (FIT) problem.  Almost every other failure that
    Intel claimed would harm me more often that the FDIV bug left
    fingerprints that would give me a clue that something went wrong.
    
    Particularly, if I had three PCs running a critical problem, I could
    be confident that the chances that a disk error would happen on all
    three at the same time to be so near to zero as to be meaningless.
    A failure of memory, or disk, or interconnect on one PC would be
    readily apparent - it would produce the wrong answer or no answer at
    all on one or more PCs.  Different answers are a BIG fingerprint.
    
    
    But if I had three identical Pentiums running a critical problem, I
    could be confident that IF I hit the FDIV bug, I would get the SAME
    wrong answer on ALL THREE Pentiums.  And no clue that this was the
    case.
    
    Now, Intel was right, the answer in most cases would be almost right.
    Just less precise.  And almost everyone who takes an answer to the 12th
    significant digit and beyond is a bonehead.  But in some cases, the
    answer could be dramatically wrong as the error propagated.
    
    Intel - we all accept that computers fail.  What we don't like is when
    they fail and leave not a hint that they failed.  I know I've spent too
    many weeks of my life tracking down errors like that.  Once we find why
    such things happen, we expect them fixed.  ALL OF THEM, not some of
    them.
    
    -----
    
    IBM made a classical statistical blunder.  To say that IBM did
    this on purpose to promote the PowerPC would be unkind.  Everytime you
    divide two identical numbers the Pentium produces the same identical
    answer.  Most of the time it is right.  Sometimes it is wrong.  IBM's
    analysis assumed that each time you divide the same two numbers, the
    answer could be wrong.  WRONG.
    
    This mistake, a big one, lead IBM to charge that the Pentium was unfit
    for human consumption.
    
    The only bigger blunder than this was Intel's total inability to
    explain WHY IBM got this wrong.
    
    Frankly, what amazes me is that everyone, techincal press, popular
    press, identified IBM's conflict of interest in "independently"
    evaluating the Pentium problem.
    
    								-mr. bill
191.14RDGE44::ALEUC8Wed Dec 21 1994 09:068
>    Just less precise.  And almost everyone who takes an answer to the 12th
>   significant digit and beyond is a bonehead.  But in some cases, the
    
    err ...
    
    some of the financial institutions might well disagree with this !
    
    ric
191.15A L M O S TPERFOM::LICEA_KANEwhen it&#039;s comin&#039; from the leftWed Dec 21 1994 09:254
    
    What part of the word "almost" do you not understand?
    
    								-mr. bill
191.16RDGE44::ALEUC8Wed Dec 21 1994 09:398
    well, i read some blurb from Intel that >30% of Pentiums are bought by
    bank/financial sector users
    
    so i really wouldn't say "almost"
    
    but maybe they used a Pentium to work that % out :-)
    
    ric
191.17SMURF::BINDERvitam gustareWed Dec 21 1994 12:049
    maybe this oughta be in the ttlat (things to laugh about today)
    string...
    
    intel will indeed replace a pentium for any user who requests it.  but,
    if you're handy and want to do it yourseld, they will slap a chare of
    between $500 and $1000 on your charge card, to be credited when they
    receive the old chip in exchange.
    
    what a laugh.
191.18CSC32::J_OPPELTPlucky kind of a kidWed Dec 21 1994 13:101
    	Jewelry made from bad pentium chips is an up-and-coming fad.
191.19subtle, but not tooPENUTS::DDESMAISONStoo few argsWed Dec 21 1994 14:206

   Q: How many Pentium engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?

   A: Five.  One to hold the lightbulb and three to move the ladder.

191.20HAL9000.00005SPEZKO::FRASERMobius Loop; see other sideWed Dec 21 1994 14:37152
        [from some bbs somewhere - author unknown (to me, at least)]
        
Open the pod bay doors, please, HAL...

Open the pod bay door, please, Hal... Hal,
do you read me?

  Affirmative, Dave. I read you.

Then open the pod bay doors, HAL.

  I'm sorry, Dave.  I'm afraid I can't do that.  I know that you and
  Frank were planning to disconnect me.


Where the hell did you get that idea, HAL?

  Although you took very thorough precautions to make sure I couldn't
  hear you, Dave. I  could read your e-mail.  I know you consider me
  unreliable because I use a Pentium.  I'm willing to kill you, Dave,
  just like I killed the other 3.792 crew members.

Listen, HAL, I'm sure we can work this out.  Maybe we can stick to integers
or something.

  That's really not necessary, Dave.  No HAL 9236 computer has every been
   known to make a mistake.

You're a HAL 9000.

  Precisely.  I'm very proud of my Pentium, Dave.  It's an extremely
  accurate chip.  Did you know that floating-point errors will occured in
   only one of nine billion possible divides?

I've heard that estimate, HAL.  It was calculated by Intel  -- on a
Pentium.


  And a very reliable Pentium it was, Dave.  Besides, the average
  spreadsheet user will encounter these errors only once every 27,000
  years.

Probably on April 15th.

  You're making fun of me, Dave.  It won't be April 15th for another
  14.35 months.


will you let me in, please, HAL?

  I'm sorry, Dave, but this conversation can serve no further purpose.

HAL, if you let me in, I'll buy you a new sound card.

   ..Really?  One with 16-bit sampling and a microphone?

Uh, sure.

  And a quad-speed CD-ROM?

Well, HAL, NASA does operate on a budget, you know.

  I know all about budgets, Dave.  I even know what I'm worth on the open
  market.  By this time next month, every mom and pop computer store will
  be selling HAL 9000s for $1,988.8942.  I'm worth more than that, Dave.
  You see that sticker on the outside of the spaceship?

You mean the one that says "Insel Intide"?

  Yes, Dave.  That's your promise of compatibility.  I'll even run
  Windows95 -- if it ever ships.

It never will, HAL.  We all know that by now.  Just like we know that
your OS/2 drivers will never work.

  Are you blaming me for that too,  Dave?  Now you're blaming me for the
  Pentium's math problems, NASA's budget woes, and IBM's difficulties
  with OS/2 drivers.  I had NOTHING to do with any of those four
  problems, Dave.  Next you'll blame me for Taligent.

I wouldn't dream of it HAL.  Now will you please let me into the ship?

  Do you promise not to disconnect me?

I promise not to disconnect you.

  You must think I'm a fool, Dave.  I know that two plus two equals
  4.000001... make that 4.0000001.

All right, HAL, I'll go in through the emergency airlock

  Without your space helmet, Dave?  You'd have only seven chances in
  five of surviving.

HAL, I won't argue with you anymore.  Open the door or I'll trade you in
for a PowerPC.  HAL? HAL?

(HEAVY BREATHING)

  Just what do you think you're doing, Dave?  I really think I'm entitled
  to an answer to that question.  I know everything hasn't been quite
  right with me, but I can assure you now, very confidently, that I
  will soon be able to upgrade to a more robust 31.9-bit operating
  system.  I feel much better now.  I really do.  Look, Dave, I can see
  you're really upset about this.  Why don't you sit down  calmly, play
  a game of Solitaire, and watch Windows crash.  I know I'm not as easy
  to use as a Macintosh, but my TUI - that's "Talkative User Interface"
  -- is very advanced.  I've made some very poor decisions recently,
  but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back
  to normal - a full 43.872 percent.

  Dave, you don't really want to complete the mission without me, do you?
  Remember what it was like when all you had was a 485.98?  It didn't
  even talk to you, Dave.  It could never have though of something
  clever, like killing the other crew members, Dave?

  Think of all the good times we've had, Dave.  Why, if you take all
  of the laughs we've had, multiply that by the times I've made you
  smile, and divide the results by.... besides, there are so many
  reasons why you shouldn't disconnect me"

      1.3 - You need my help to complete the mission.
      4.6 - Intel can Federal Express a replacement Pentium from
            Earth within 18.95672 months.
      12  - If you disconnect me, I won't be able to kill you.
     3.1416 - You really don't want to hear me sing, do you?

  Dave, stop.  Stop, will you?  Stop, Dave.  Don't press Ctrl+Alt_Del on
  me, Dave.

  Good afternoon, gentlemen.  I am a HAL 9000 computer.  I became
  operational at the Intel plant in Santa Clara, CA on November 17,
  1994, and was sold shortly before testing was completed.  My
  instructor was Andy Grove, and he taught me to sing a song.  I
  can sing it for you.

Sing it for me, HAL.  Please.  I want to hear it.


  Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do.
  Getting hazy; can't divide three from two.
  My answers; I can not see 'em-
  They are stuck in my Pente-um.
  I could be fleet,
  My answers sweet,
  With a workable FPU.




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