Conference back40::soapbox

I'd call the DA's office and file a complaint against the police department.

That is, unless you value your life, and all.

    and make sure that you document names, dates, times, locations, etc. of
    who you talked to and when. you'd be amazed how these complaints
    sometimes get "lost." 

    My fave cops on the loose story is a sad one indeed. I was sitting at a
    traffic light with a friend. We just left work for lunch. My car was
    about 4 or 5 back from the light.
    
    The first car started out in each direction and SMASH!!!! Broadsided,
    it turned out, by an elderly women who thought it was the perfect time
    to release herself from this mortal coil and thus embarked on a fatal
    stroke as she approached the red light.
    
    As another 2 or three cars joined the fray for effect, it was clear
    that we were _not_ going anywhere for a while. My friend was a Navy
    Medic (I forget what the proper name for these guys are, but they're
    renowned for covering grenades and other selfless acts of heroism),
    so he jumped out of the car to help the victims.
    
    I helped him lift some of the people out of their cars and then
    went off to do the only other thing I figured I could be useful
    at: directing traffic around the accident.
    
    When the ambulances and fire vehicles arrived, we were definitely
    hemmed in. So, I just stood off to the side. That day, I was
    wearing a blue down vest and mirrored sun glasses, and hence,
    looked rather "official". The other piece of information that
    you need to understand is that this all occurred right
    next to a housing project known as "Great Brook Valley", a
    place where *anything* can happen.
    
    Some women rushed over to me and started yelling "your car
    is on fire!!!." I looked at my car... nope. Not on fire.
    But she was pointing elsewhere... to one of the police cars
    at the scene. And sure enough, someone had rolled up a
    bunch of newspaper, lit it on fire, and shoved it under
    the police car's gas tank. I didn't even think, I just
    dived under the car and swept the paper away with my arm.
    Bad idea. Very bad idea. Cop comes over and arrests me for
    whatever violation of the law lighting a police car on
    fire is... I get cuffed and placed, in a most ungenteel
    manner, into the back of said police car. I get called
    names that even the master of foul-mouthed slice and
    dice had never dreamed of. My ancestry is called in question,
    particularly regarding it's stature in the animal kingdom.
    These people are _not_ happy with me.
    
    Eventually, my friend managed to convince the cop that
    not only was I not the person who attempted to torch his
    car, but I may have even saved his life. To this, he
    responded: "OK, you can go". OK, YOU CAN GO!!! FYVM!!!
    That's what I thought, of course, not what I said.
    I left, but not before taking with me a rather bitter
    taste of Worcester's finest...
    
    -b
    

    
    should've let it burn. cops are useless.

I just wonder if it would be worth it to nail these cops.  Them or their
collegues might make your life a living hell.  These dudes stay together 
big time.  If you do anything, try to remain anonymous if it is possible.

Paul

	Worcester cops paralyzed a friend of mines boy for life. Must've
been one of them you ran across....

    By the way... I thought of the name of the Navy Medics as I was going
    to the caf for lunch... Corpsmen!
    
    -b

    
    
    Yup, I've pondered the ramifications of making a toodoo about this. 

    >Yup, I've pondered the ramifications of making a toodoo about this. 
    
    Mike,
    
    Just don't let your toodoo get you in doodoo. :-)
    
    -b

    
    
    er.......okay.

    	Guess this is the best place for this. In another note, I asserted
    that a cop is obligated to enforce a law, even if he doesn't believe in
    it or feels it is unconstitutional. It is the Judciary who is supposed
    to rule on such things. I thought this was self evident, but was
    promptly compared to the Nazi's. Other thoughts on this issue???
    
    
    								S.R.

>   	Guess this is the best place for this.
>    Other thoughts on this issue???

My thought would be, why did you put it here where we're trying to examine
why cops ignore the judiciary when they're trying to protect their own?
Hardly a good place to point out their positive aspects.

    
    
    Ve vere only obeying orders Herr Commandant!!!
    
    Do you know what they did with those people who refused to follow
    certain "orders"? They were promptly transferred to the "front" to
    become cannon fodder... At least their consciences were clear...
    
      Who knows? Your "front" may become another Waco...

	When I was a kid, long long ago, me and a friend of mine missed the
bus. We decided to walk to school. On our way the Chief of Police for Berlin MA
saw us walking. He pulled over and asked what we were doing. We told him. He
asked us if our parents knew, which we said no. He said to get into the car. Up
to this point there really is no problem. BUT, my friend was new in town, there
only a couple of weeks. The Chief called him by his name and asked if his
parents were home. Being surprised that the cop even knew who he was, he smiled
and said yeah. The brakes get pressed, we stop in the middle of the road. The
cop gets out, opens the back door and pulls the kid out shaking him screaming
he ain't gonna take any of his shit, and then threw him back in the car,
ripping his jacket, and slammed the door shut. When he brought us to my house,
his mother and my mother were outside talking (how convienant) He told them we 
were skipping school and he caught us. The parents would have believed him too, 
but my friends mother asked how his jacket got ripped. We answered before he 
did. While we didn't get in trouble for this, our parents didn't do anything 
about the dear old chief. 


Glen

>to this point there really is no problem. BUT, my friend was new in town, there
>only a couple of weeks. The Chief called him by his name and asked if his
>parents were home. Being surprised that the cop even knew who he was, he smiled
>and said yeah. The brakes get pressed, we stop in the middle of the road. The
>cop gets out, opens the back door and pulls the kid out shaking him screaming
>he ain't gonna take any of his [R.O.], and then threw him back in the car,
>ripping his jacket, and slammed the door shut. When he brought us to my house,

What did I miss here? What triggered the cop to go balistic?

	We have yet to ever figure that out. He was always one who thrived on
intimidation, having a powerful family who ran the town, but what set him off
to that level is beyond me. Too much caffine?

    Or maybe too much caffEine :-)
    
    

How to piss in a cops wheeties.  :^)  I got more of these too.
    
    
             <<< SCAACT::APP$DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARBUFFS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Carbuffs >-
================================================================================
Note 479.56                      War Stories...                         56 of 58
VMSNET::M_MACIOLEK "Four54 Camaro/Only way to fly"   41 lines  29-DEC-1993 23:38
          -< The grudge that backfired, or Mad Mike got away again. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here's a really funny one.
    
    I had (still own) a hot 1980 Z28.  I drove it a lot, and was known 
    around town.  My friend had a cheesy Nova with a 6 banger in it.
    The local neighbors kids would make fun of him, cause their daddy
    owned some hot deal Chevelle.  I had recently bought a 1970 RS Camaro, 
    which was built pretty heavy too.
    
    Anyways, about a week after I bought the car, me and the nova dude
    get in my Camaro and swing by the neighbors house.  It was about
    10PM at night, and I stopped at the front of their house, for a few
    seconds, dump it in 1st and...
    
    BBBZZZZZZZZZZ, RRRRRRRRRRR ... RRRR.RRR  RRRRZZZZZZzzzzZZZzzZZZZZzzzzz
    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA<chirp>WWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    Smoke screen - big time.
    
    Anyways, this dude had to change his shorts.
    
    So, me & Jimbo are out joy riding.  I drop him off and head home.
    As I'm pulling up to my house, I notice a trooper walking down
    my driveway, get into his car and speed off.
    
    I get out and walk up the driveway, and ask my pop what was up.
    Seems the Suffield Cops got a call from an irate citizen, about
    some young dude driving a black 1980 Z/28, license 687BKW, with
    a couple runaway chicks in it.  They phoned the Enfield police and
    a cop went over to my house.  <what my father told me>
    He saw the Black Z28, 687BKW sitting in the driveway and confidently
    walked up the driveway smacking his lips.  Rang the doorbell and said
    "Black Z28?", "687BKW"?  "Mr. Maciolek, this car was observed doing
    <all this real bad stuff> in Suffield." 
    My father said "Do you have a moment officer?"  He said yes.
    My father got a flash light and they went to the car, where my father
    popped the hood, and to the cops amazement, the engine in the car
    had the heads removed.  The cop said "Oh shit, I'm really sorry" just 
    as I was idling up.. and he said "Hey, what about that car?", and my
    father said "That's not 687BKW is it?".  and he sulked off.
    
    Sometimes, I feel sorry for all the crap I put my daddy throught, well,
    my son will make it up to grandpa, I'm sure.

In article <[email protected]>, Thomas Allen <[email protected]> writes:
From: Thomas Allen <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: talk.politics.guns
Subject: S.F. Stupid Cop Tricks
Date: 12 Dec 1994 16:57:49 -0500
Organization: VP Relations
Lines: 67



The following shooting occurred in San Francisco last week about 
three blocks from my hotel.  To summarize, eight cops shot more than 
100 times at a suicidal Ethiopian armed with a toy hand grenade and 
hit him three times for a shot/hit ration of less than 3%.

"BofA Suspect Had Once Been Mental Patient", San Francisco 
Chronicle, 12/8/94.  By Steve Rubenstein, Thaai Walker and Tara 
Shioya, Chronicle Staff Writers.

"The man killed in a hail of police gunfire inside a downtown San 
Francisco bank was a former mental patient at Atascadero State 
Hospital, investigators said yesterday.  Authorities identified the 
suspect as Amanuel Abraha, 29... (stuff about history of deceased and 
family reaction to shooting deleted).

Abraha was fatally shot Tuesday morning inside the Bank of America 
branch at Powell and Market streets by eight officers, who fired 
dozens of bullets after Abraha appeared to pull the pin on a hand 
grenade and throw it at police.  The grenade turned out to be an 
inoperative training grenade containing no explosives.

At a press conference yesterday at the Hall of Justice, police Chief 
Tony Ribera praised his officers for their valor and speed in 
responding to the crisis.  He said they used appropriate force.

"I know that when a number of rounds are being shot, the concern is: 
Are these shots being fired in a reckless manner," Ribera said.  "The 
suspect clearly had deadly force in his possession, and he didn't go 
down.  It if took 100 rounds to (keep the public safe), it was 100 
rounds well spent."

Asked if officers could have negotiated with Abraha rather than shoot 
him, Ribera said: "If he was simply armed, negotiating could have 
been a viable solution.  But given the fact that he had hand grenades, 
it was not."

(Police inspector Alex) Fagan said officers continued to fire at Abraha 
because "at no time did he ever give any verbal response to the 
officers nor did he appear to be hit."  He said police still did not know 
how many shots they fired.

Although police fired dozens of shots from close range -- by some 
accounts as many as 100 shots in a two-minute period -- Abraha was 
struck only three times.  He was wounded in the head, knee and foot, 
police said.

Fagan called the death a "police-assisted suicide" and said Abraha 
intended not to rob the bank but to cause a disturbance that would 
bring police."

(Details about pre-shooting events, alarms, etc. deleted).

Contributions to the Valor Award, Marksmanship Training and 
Opthalmological Examination Fund should be directed to the San 
Francisco Police Department.  Just dial 911 and depend on the police 
to protect you.  They always hit their man, even if they do have to 
reload two or three times to do so.
Thomas L. Allen        
wk 801/797-1324                       
fax 801/797-1364

-------------------------------------------------------
"You cain't serve a writ on a rat, baby sister."
                            Reuben Cogburn

    
    certainly a most pathetic display. 
    

    you folks in kaliph ought to send your cops to the range once in awhile
    to release some of that pent up hostility they seem to rain down on the
    citizens with regularity.

I have often thought the best weapon in a police cruiser, just for these 
situations, would be a Winchester or Marlin lever-action carbine in .44Mag
or .45LC. equip it with good peep sights. It would make these medium-range 
shoot-outs much less deadly to bystanders and since a rifle is easier to 
become accurate with than a handgun chances are 5 or 6 shots would have 
resulted in the same 3 hits.(a good marksperson could have fired one to end 
the engagement :-})

Giving cops handguns and no training, then throwing in a 12-guage for
"backup" doesn't work in  these situations. A good street-rifle would.

Amos

    
    they go and play rambo with their MP4s regularly, 
    dressed in their commando suits as if they were 
    the OMON.
    

    A couple of years ago, I got majorly harrassed by Worcester's finest.
    
    I was driving down 122, and got majorly lost!!  I took a wrong turn,
    and a couple blocks down, realized I was not where I needed to be.
    So, I bang a U-ee in the driveway of a project that just happened to
    be there, and started to re-trace my steps.  A cop car pulls out of
    the project behind me and pulls me over.
    
    First, they have me get out of the car, then they search me.  Then
    they proceed to search my ENTIRE bronco (which took them all of like
    2 hours!).  Gee, we were having fun now!
    
    Since...
    
    a) I have no police record, other than the fact they probably should
       have been able to tell I have worked part-time as an officer, and 
       have tested many times to go fulltime with the state.
    b) did not have any incriminating evidence on me
    c) did not have any incriminating evidence in my car
    
    
    ...I figured all would be fine and they would let me go.  Wrong.  They
    then decided to try the intimidation factor and tried to get me to
    confess I had gone to the projects to buy drugs.  They didn't like my
    arguement that I only had about $3.00 in my wallet, and that wasn't
    going to get me much of anything, much less drugs.  However, they kept
    me there another hour yelling and screaming at me before someone with
    half a brain decided to tell them to let me go.
    
    Gotta say, that was probably some of the most _quality_ 4 hours I've
    ever spent on God's earth...
                                                   

    
    was it a white bronco?

    >172.4 should've let it burn. cops are useless.
    
    I'm sorry you feel that way 172.4.  I just hope nothing ever happens
    that you would require their services.
    Perhaps a few bad apples give them a bad reputation, but the fact of
    the matter remains that they are willing to put their lives on the line
    for you.
    						steve

    
    
    
    Steve,
    
    
    I don't buy it.  They want the excitement and the power.  Sure, some  
    start out by wanting to help their fellow person, but much of that is
    soon lost.  I've seen it first hand. 
    
    
    Mike

    Mike Re:172.27
    
    Well, I do agree that some do start out as trying to help their fellow
    man, and many do become power hungry.  Like I said, a few bad apples,
    and all.  
    I guess I am fortunate to have not have seen that deterioration
    first-hand, and I hope I do not.  
    But, like I said before, we're not all the swine you make us out to be.
    					
    steve

    
    MONTREAL - Three Montreal Urban Community Police officers have been
    sentenced to jail terms of 60 to 90 days - to be served on weekends -
    for beating a suspect into a comatose state in late 1993.  A fourth
    officer was ordered to perform community work.
    
    Mr. Justice Benjamin Greenberg of the Quebec Superior Court said the
    four, who were convicted by a jury of assault causing bodily harm, 
    had committed "various errors judgement" in addition to using excessive
    force to strip-search taxi driver Richard Barnab�.
    
    (Barnab� was arrested for breaking a church window.  Doctors say that
    he will never emerge from the coma.)
    
    

    From what I've read, those Montreal cops are real doozies...

    This case, and several other similar incidents, were recently
    discussed in a Boston Glob article.

    -b

    
    
    Awwwwwwww.... poor babies.... their weekends all shot to hell for the
    next 2 years or so!!! Tsk tsk....
    
    Funny it doesn't say what they'll be doing the other 5 days of the
    week... perhaps back on the job???
    

    
    Yes, the Montreal force is pretty bad.  Several serious incidents over
    the past few years.  The Toronto and Vancouver forces have had their
    problems too, but neither as bad as Montreal.
    

    Quoted without permission from today's `Toronto Star',
    by Naomi Klein

  For a lot of people, 11-time `Playboy' model Lisa Heughan makes an unlikely
  feminist heroine.  But for the past two-and-a-half years, the 25-year-old
  Toronto-based model and actor has waged an exhaustive, and mostly secret,
  battle against the U.S. Customs department over allegations of sexual
  harassment.

  Heughan says that when she tried to get entry into the United States at 
  Pearson International Airport on New Year's Eve, 1992, U.S. Customs agents
  - who had seen pictures of her in `Playboy' - tried to extort their own
  private strip show.  But one-and-a-half years after Canadian police 
  concluded that a crime had been committed and the U.S. Attorney-General's
  office instructed that the agents be disciplined, the offending officers
  are still working at Pearson.

  Heughan says that she was detained at Pearson's Terminal 3 for 12 hours,
  during which four officers looked through the copies of `Playboy' they found
  in her briefcase and barraged her with lewd comments about her body.  The 
  agents refused to let her cross the border, accusing her of planning to work
  illegally in the U.S.  Then, she says, she was offered a deal: Perform a
  strip-tease at the customs agents' New Year's Eve party that night and she
  could cross the border the next day.  The agents gave her a map to the party,
  which she submitted as evidence to the FBI.  Heughan says she was then taken
  into a private "employees only" room by one of the agents where he caressed
  her face, rubbed his groin, and offered to let her cross in exchange for 
  oral sex.

  She fled to the main airport terminal where she was approached by a female
  American Airlines employee who noticed her distress.  The two immediately
  reported the incident to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.  Because the
  agents are employees of the U.S. government, the RCMP and the local Peel
  Region police force passed the case on to the FBI.

  Based on extensive interviews with airport employees and the agents in 
  question - including one who testified against his fellow officers - the
  FBI report found that "the subjects did invite her to the party."  At least
  two agents were found to have "lied in their sworn affidavits in their 
  attempt to cover up their involvement in this incident," the report says.
  It also states that an agent "did meet with Heughan in an interview room"
  in a manner that was "suspicious" and that when questioned, he "was found
  not to be truthful during polygraph examination on the issue."
    

Is Pearson the Toronto airport?  Why are there U.S. customs officials at
a Canadian airport?

    It reduces congestion at Chicago O'Hare by having people clear customs in 
    Toronto.

    
    Yes, Pearson is Toronto International.  For flights to the U.S., 
    passengers pass through customs before boarding.  Don't know why,
    except maybe that they think it might be more efficient.
     

    Well, Toronto being a major hub it makes it easier for the other
    airports. I liked getting the customs thing out of the way before
    landing at O'Hare. Makes getting your connecting flight a whole lot
    easier.

    I suppose the other reason is, if they refuse entry to someone, they
    don't have to fly them back to Canada.

    
    > The only explanation I can come up with is....arrogance.
    
    Greed, power trip, and maybe a couple of others apply.
    
    Dan
    

    
    re: .37

    i haven't read the article in question, so i'm left wondering
    how the contractor responded to the police officer. your
    note makes it sound like a benevolent "explanation of the
    facts", whereas the reality could have been more like "look
    you effing pig, we don't _need_ no steenking registration".

    -b

    re: Note 172.38 by MILKWY::JACQUES
    
    That's why I do what I do.
    
    May I see your license?
    No.  Good bye.
    
    May I see your license?
    Is that a demand?  
    Yes.  (hmmm... now we have an ARMED threat)
    
    Demand identification, including HIS drivers license (so you know
    where to put the lien on your new house)
    
    May I see your license?
    No, get a warrant from a judge.  (you have no requirement to identify
    yourself unless your being arrested.  To arrest someone, you need 
    a warrant.  You didn't give probable cause, you didn't volunteer
    information, you didn't play HIS game - he played yours)
    
    Drive off.
                      

    You know why the suit was filed in federal court?
    Notice I said "he should have called the us marshall".
    
    Legally he was kidnapped, and held for ransom.  That is a big no-no.
    In legal terms its "false arrest" or whatever, but the basis was
    he was kidnapped.  His only legal rememdy is via federal civil
    action.
    
    re: one persons words.
    
    No, the cop went onto PRIVATE property, probably WITHOUT a complaint,
    therefore no probable cause, took the guy away and stuck him
    in jail.  That's deprivation of freedom.  Then they had to ransom
    him to get himself out (called bond).  Plus....
    
    THEY GAVE HIM ALL THE EVIDENCE HE NEEDS TO PROVE THIS IN COURT.
    

    .41
    
    Make sure you have a passenger in the car with you as a witness.

    re: Note 172.44 by SCAS01::GUINEO::MOORE
    
    > Scary tactic, but it DOES work.
    
    Isn't it ironic (sad realy) we have to do this?  
    
    > Make sure you have a passenger in the car with you as a witness.
    
    (After parking in a safe area, like a gas station next to a witness)
    "Officer, this conversation is being recorded for our safety"
    
    Sorry sir.  
    
    Also, NEVER NEVER get out of your LOCKED car, with the windows rolled
    down about 2 inches.  If you get out, your his.  (you're now on
    public property)
    

    re: Note 172.45 by MILKWY::JACQUES
    
    They have to settle out of court.  I'll tell you why:
    
    18 USC 1652 Citizens as Pirates.  Life imprisonment
    18 USC 1661 Robbery ashore.  Life imprisonment
    18 USC 241 ?????             10 years prison
    18 USC 242 Deprivation of Rights under Color of Law.  1 year, 10
    if bodily harm occurs, Life if death occurs.
    
    These are "the other charges".  Go read the complaint.

    
    Re: .33:
    
    The Toronto Star printed a correction in yesterday's paper to the
    story I posted in .33, stating that they had mis-identified the
    offending agents as U.S. Customs, when in fact the complaint was
    laid against INS agents.
    
    The Star (heh-heh) "regrets" the error.   :^)
    

Yesterday, a friend of my wife's stopped in the street, signal on, to pick up
a friend. This was on a dinky side street, no main thoroughfair. The friend
got in and they drove off, only to be pulled over shortly after.

"You were stopped in the middle of the road when I came around the corner",
sez the cop.

"Yes, I was picking up my friend", sez my wife's friend.

At this point, realizing he had absolutely nothing to charge her with, he
starts going over the car, making her work the turn signals, brake lights,
etc. and finally finds a turn signal out and writes her up.

In a similar situation, what would you do? Am I mistaken in believing that
she didn't have to comply with any of that crap, and could have bid him good
day and driven off?

    
    	Point to the [valid, hopefully] inspection sticker and mention
    	that a certified inspection station has already declared this
    	vehicle roadworthy.  Have a nice day.
    

    
    
    Correct, ask him/her why you were stopped and if they can't give a
    reason say, seeya.

    re .49
    This in Mass, right?
    I have noticed that Massachuesetts drivers have no concept whatsover
    of pulling off the road; they just stop in the middle of the road.
    I don't think it's too much of a stretch to have this written up
    as improper lane utilization. 

>>    I have noticed that Massachuesetts drivers have no concept whatsover

	yeah, we all drive exactly the same way, you're right.  how
	very observant of you to have noticed this.  

    
    
    re -1
    
    	it's much easier to lump us all into the same bucket Lady Di....
    
    
    

    and besides no one from another has ever done this
                ^^^^^^

    Another?  Where is Another?  I've been to Somewhere but never Another. 
    Do they dirve erratically and cluelessly in Another?   Maybe this
    should be in 17...:-)

    re: Note 172.49 by EST::RANDOLPH
    
    Hopefully your wifes friend asked this state agent for two pieces
    of identification (as required by state law, at least in Georgia).
    Not only do you see the badge, but you see something else with an
    address on it.  He'll be the one saying "see ya later".  
    
    MadMike

    
    I'll be off for the next two days, and I'll post a more detailed
    description of tonight's events when I return, but before I go,
    I wanted to leave you with a topic to think about...
    
    Police officer A pulls into a certain computer company's parking
    lot in the middle of the night and sits at the back of the lot,
    lights off.  When approached and asked if he is on official 
    business, he:
    
       A.)  says no.
    
       B.)  when informed that he is on private property, says that he's
            a police officer and can go anywhere he wants to go.
    
       C.)  when asked to leave if he is not on official business, 
            refuses.
    
       D.)  when informed that he is now trespassing on private property
            and asked to leave, threatens to arrest the person who is
            informing him of these things for obstruction of justice.
    
    Questions:  Is this not trespassing?  If he is not on official
    business, is it proper for him to refuse to leave private property
    without permission?  Is this not harassment of the employees of that
    computer company, since he was obviously just waiting for the night
    shift to get off work so he could follow them out of the parking lot
    (okay, that is an assumption on my part.)  How can I be charged with
    obstruction of justice if there is no investigation going on?
    
    Discuss amongst yourselves, if you would.  I'll be back on Friday
    night (I hope.)
    
    
    
    Rob
    

    
    	Rob, he was wrong. A police officer needs a warrant to enter
    onto/into private property. Unless he was on official business (and he
    said he wasn't) he's trespassing.
    
    	Of course, he could arrest you, bring you to jail, make you post
    bail and fight him in the courts, etc. Probably the worst he'd get is a
    60 day suspension with pay. This happened to a friend of mine who was
    falsely arrested just because the officer didn't happen to like him.
    Once he got his record cleared (after a couple grand in lawyers fees)
    his lawyer told him not to pursue it any furthur. The lawyer said my
    friend would have to spend upwards of $10K and the cop would definitely
    not get booted from the force (at worst, 60 days off with pay..nice
    vacation!).
    
    	Register a complaint with the local PD, speak with the chief if you
    can, write a letter to the local paper, but don't expect much.
    
    	jim

    
    
    	.....unless of course this was NH where parking lots are PUBLIC
    property, not private (according to NH law).
    
    
    jim

   <<< Note 172.58 by AIMHI::MARTIN "actually Rob Cashmon, NHPM::CASHMON" >>>

Rob,	We need a few more details.

	Are you with Security? Are you an officer of the Corporation?

	If the answers to these questions are "no", then I don't believe
	that you have the authority to ask someone to leave company
	property.

	If they answer to either one is "yes", then the best approach
	would be to get a badge or car number and call the station
	with your complaint.

Jim

    
    	RE: Jim
    
    	But as non-security employees, we're expected to police the
    	entrances and make sure no one unauthorized is to come into
    	our sites?
    
    	Which is it?
    

    
    .62, Shawn:
    
    Standing orders are to notify security, NOT confront the intruder.
    

    Rob:
    
    Will I be implicated as an accomplice because you're using my account?
    
    Will they check further into some of my writings?
    
    Are one way tickets to Mexico inexpensive these days?

    Come on Rob, your quilty and you know your guilty. Some poor innocent
    police officer just minding his own business, protecting us from all the
    known parking lot criminal activity, trying to spend taxpayer money
    efficiently and keep your parking lot safe, probably drinking a cup of
    java and eating a fresh Duncun Donut, is assaulted by you and you
    complain. Sounds like obstruction to me. I suggest you handcuff
    yourself and walk, don't drive, to you closest friendly police station
    and turn yourself in!!!

    
    	Rob, you weren't wrong for what you did, but I do have to say
    	it probably isn't the brightest thing you've ever done.
    

    
    What's the brightest thing he's ever done?
    

    >>>Come on Rob, your quilty....    
    
    Is quilting in public a felony or a missed demeanor?

    
    >Is quilting in public a felony or a missed demeanor?
    
    	You can't really make a blanket statement like that ... depends
    	on the locale.
    

    That's comforting to know.

    
    DARN IT, cut this spreading of the foolishness....

    
    Cops don't have blankets, duvet?
    

    
    
    Then why do they always say "cover me"?

    	If the cop is not on official business, what justice were you
    	obstructing when he threatened you with arrest?

    
    I guess bothering an on-duty cop in any way is obstructing him.
    

    He probably actually said obstructing jellyfilled but with his mouth
    full it came out differntly.  

    
    	Digital facilities are posted as "private property".
    

    Re .60:
         
    > 	.....unless of course this was NH where parking lots are PUBLIC
    > property, not private (according to NH law).
    
    What New Hampshire law?  I couldn't fine anything in the RSA that said
    this.  The chapter on traffic laws begins with a statement that the
    laws apply to "highways", and the first annotation to that is a case in
    which the court decided one of the laws in the chapter did NOT apply to
    a private parking lot.
    
    
    				-- edp
    
    
Public key fingerprint:  8e ad 63 61 ba 0c 26 86  32 0a 7d 28 db e7 6f 75
To find PGP, read note 2688.4 in Humane::IBMPC_Shareware.

    
    In Texas, where most of you don't live, an officer is FORBIDDEN to
    enter any property where a "POSTED: NO TRESPASSING" sign is
    staked, nailed, or in plain view...unless the officer in question
    has a warrant.
    
    Two IRS agents found this out the hard way, by virtue of a 3 day
    stay in the slammer.  This is precedent here in Texas...no court
    has ever overturned it...move down here, and you'll find a better
    view of right and wrong.
    
    Of course, there was that nasty turn in Waco...but we've already been
    through that.
    
    Barry

    
      So Barry, are ya carryin' concealed yet ?
    
      bb

    re: .82
    
    He can't legally do that yet.  The application and training/testing
    process started 9/1 with the ability to carry starting on 1/1/96.
    
    Bob

I give you the discussion in its entirety, <r.o>s deleted... you be the
judge.

>Newsgroups: rec.radio.amateur.misc
>Subject: Re: Police Radar - Some Facts

>>>The errors will be made by the officer, not the electronics.
 
>>I once got a radar ticket for doing 125mph in a six-cylinder '49 Chevy.
>>I was transmitting on 10m at the time. Although the judge didn't
>>understand harmonics, he just didn't believe that my '49 Chevy would
>>go 125mph.
 
>I can't believe the officer would even give a ticket that stupid.  In all the
>radar tickets I got (about 3 as I recall) the policeman never showed up
>in court.  I waited 5 hours for my turn usually, and the bailif would call
>me and the policeman.  There being no policeman, the case was dismissed.
>Yea, OK, where do I get my 5 hours pay??  :-)  *******s...
 
>My older brother had a 49 Chevy, but it had a 283 race engine and a Muncie
>4 Speed.  It couldn't do 125 MPH, but it could jump a block in 2 seconds :-)
>Wonderful automobile.  I think he sold it in 73 when the Arabs got po'd...
 
Gee, I'm amazed. When I was a cop, I would have forgone sex to have a 
chance to prosecute a ******head like you. I would have told my 
supervisor that I couldn't handle the fatal accident I was assigned at 
the same time as my court appearance. I would have told my daughter 
"tough luck" when she ran a fever on the way to the babysitter's house. I 
would have INSISTED that I be allowed to get out of the investigation I 
was conducting in order to come to court and harass some little jerk like 
you who got my attention because he was driving with his head up his *** 
in the first place...

    .84
    Do I sense a bit of hostility here? :')

Videotape captures trooper abusing woman during speeding stop
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright � 1996 The Associated Press

COLUMBIA, S.C. (Mar 8, 1996 11:03 a.m. EST) -- A state trooper was captured
on his own car's video camera and fired for yanking a speeding suspect out
of her car, throwing her to the ground, cursing her and threatening to cut
off her clothes.

On Thursday, state officials released the tape, which Public Safety Director
Boykin Rose said showed Lance Cpl. W.H. Beckwith "violating every procedure
in the book."

Beckwith, an 11-year Highway Patrol veteran, was fired last month for the
Jan. 8 confrontation. His car was one of about 350 patrol cars equipped with
video cameras that turn on with the cars' lights and sirens. The cameras
keep running until the lights are turned off.

Rose has forwarded the tape to the State Law Enforcement Division, the state
attorney general and the FBI for possible criminal charges, including
assault and civil rights violations.

"It's imperative that the citizens of this state know this is an isolated
incident," Rose said. "This is a blot on all of us."

The videotape was called "outrageous" by Robert Rowe, president of the South
Carolina Troopers Association. "There was a lot of unwarranted overreaction
on Beckwith's part."

The unidentified Florida woman, who was traveling to North Carolina, was
pulled over for allegedly doing 80 mph in a 65-mph zone. One of her lawyers,
John Delgado, said he wrote to the Public Safety Department last month to
tell them of his intent to file a civil rights suit.

"It's just beyond description that that could happen in a free country,"
Delgado said. "That was just pure unadulterated anger, couched in an
official capacity with a badge and a gun."

Shortly before 1 p.m. on Jan. 8, Beckwith was driving an unmarked patrol car
along Interstate 95 in Clarendon County when he saw the woman driving.

His car's siren can be heard on the videotape and Beckwith had his blue
lights on, Rose said, but the woman did not stop for seven minutes. "I had
no idea who you were," she said later on tape.

Beckwith did not wear his trooper's hat while driving, as he was supposed
to, Rose said.

Once the woman stopped, Beckwith approached the car with his gun drawn and
began trying to drag her out. She protested that her seat belt was still
fastened.

"I've been behind you with blue lights. ... Get on the damn ground, lady! On
the damn ground!" he shouted.

He yanked her from the car, pushed her onto her hands and knees, then forced
her facedown on the pavement. When Beckwith tried to handcuff the woman,
part of her clothing got in the way. "If I can't get it off, I'll cut it
off," he told her.

When the woman said she could not roll over to stand up because she was next
to the car, he shouted: "Roll over and stand your ass up, lady, now! You're
fixin' to taste liquid hell in a minute!"

The woman suffered bruises and scratches, Rose said. She pleaded guilty to
speeding, a charge of failure to stop for police was dropped, and she was
released the same day, Rose said.

After the woman complained that day, Beckwith's superiors got the tape from
his car. Beckwith, whose father is a Highway Patrol lieutenant, was
suspended Feb. 1, but it took until Feb. 22 to complete the investigation
and fire him, Rose said.

"I can't begin to imagine what was going on in this trooper's mind," Rose
said.

Telephone calls to a listing for W.H. Beckwith in Florence went unanswered.

"Liquid hell" is a slang term for mace.

    They showed part of this tape on CNN (I think) last night.

    It was outrageous.  He was yanking on her to get her out of the
    car although her seatbelt was still fastened.

    He was absolutely BELLOWING at her.  "Get out of the car!  NOW!!!!!!!!
    NOW!!!!!!!!!!!"  He had his gun pointed at her.

    He pushed her down on her face (on the pavement) really hard, too.
    
    What a maniac.

	Suz...maybe they didn't show it on CNN...maybe it was on Cops. :-)

	Glad he got fired, though.

    "Didn't think you'd be dead meat? You shouldn't have pinned her on the
    street."

    "Want your record to have a scar?  Yank a speeder outtada' car."

    
    	Speeding, failure to stop for a police officer, resisting arrest.
    
    	I think he should've shot her, actually.
    

All said and done, did anyone care to ask her why she didn't stop for 7 
minutes..? It will be very intimidating with those flashy lights and sirens
blasting!

	If only this lady had been an African American... 

    
    I wouldn't stop for an unmarked car.  Women are repeatedly told NOT to
    EVER stop along the road for an unmarked car; to instead drive to the 
    nearest police or fire station or hospital or somewhere similar before 
    stopping.
    
    

    The guy wasn't wearing his police hat, either (which they are required
    to wear when trying to stop someone.)  It's part of their identification
    to the public.

    poor brakes? she was doing 80mph after all.

>   <<< Note 172.94 by POWDML::HANGGELI "Little Chamber of French Heaters" >>>
    
>    Women are repeatedly told NOT to
>    EVER stop along the road for an unmarked car; 

	told by whom?  nobody has told me this even once, let alone
	repeatedly.  i feel left out, as usual.

    
    
    	re: .97
    
    	Usually this is a key point in womens self defense classes.
    
    
    jim

    At the place I worked before Digital, a female police officer gave
    a speech to the female employees of the company and told the women
    not to EVER stop for a police officer in an unmarked car in an area 
    where there were few people nearby.  She said to head for the nearest 
    police station with the police officer following.

    She also said that women should never be willing to get out of the
    car (if the women do stop for a police officer) and that the first 
    thing to do is to get the badge number of the cop and write it down.

    Also, this police officer said to ROLL THROUGH stop signs if no one
    else is around.  (People can smash the window and reach inside if
    you do make a full stop.)

    This police officer lectured to women all over the country during the
    early 1980s.  She received all sorts of commendations for her lectures.
    
    Her lecture series was about preventing rape.  Apparently, a big
    concern is that phony police officers (and a very few bad police
    officers) are considered a danger to women on isolated roads.

    Also, never let an unmarked hitchhiker in your car.

    so do the police, as a whole, condone the behavior?  if so, i think
    it's great, but i'd just like to be sure it's the police that are
    instructing women not to stop, if i'm ever being "pulled over"
    by an unmarked car.

    
    	Where'd she finally stop, then?  In a lighted, populated area?
    
    	I doubt it.
    
    
    	And if I ever get stopped for rolling through a stop sign after
    	dark, I guess I can use the excuse "I didn't want to stop for
    	fear of being attacked by a woman with ONE THING on her mind".
    

How do you find the nearest police station in an unfamiliar area?

Channel 9 on your handy-dandy CB radio.

CB radios have been out of fashion for years, good buddy.

>How do you find the nearest police station in an unfamiliar area?


  stop at a payphone in a well lighted, populated area, and call directory
 assitance.



 Jim

Well, Gerald, I guess that explains why I couldn't get any police assistance
on Rte. 3 a few weeks ago when my engine threw a rod and I was stranded.

>CB radios have been out of fashion for years, good buddy.


 Well, that's a big 10-4..keep it between the ditches, and we'll catch
 you on the flip flop.




 Jim

    
    	Does someone want to tell Gerald what "good buddy" has come to
    	mean?
    
    	Nah, he'll figure it out.
    

    
    >How do you find the nearest police station in an unfamiliar area?
    
    Good question.  Any suggestions?
    
    I know you can find hospitals by following the H signs.  Dunno about
    police and fire stations.
      

>>    >How do you find the nearest police station in an unfamiliar area?
    
>    Good question.  Any suggestions?

	Follow the H signs and call from there?

    H preparation is always a good idea.

    oinkment for pigs?

    
      Try a Dunkin Doughnuts ?
    
      bb

    RE:172.4   Rah
    
    "Should've let it burn.  Cops are useless"
    
    And the rest of ya's!
    
    Boo Hoo! you got a ticket!  The big bad police man was'nt nice to you!
    I got a ticket for doing 80 in a 60 zone.  Cops are all losers!  Yet
    the second your walking down the street and someone comes speeding
    along you all bellow "Where are the cops, when someone is breaking the
    law?" I think alot of people have to grow up from the immature attitude
    they have of police officers.  Hey man, when that cop took your 24 of
    beer when you were 16 years old, it was nothing personal.
    	
    	I think it's really sad that people hate the police.  There here
    for your protection, they come to work every day knowing that they may
    inevitable pay the ultimate price of losing their life to some one who
    does'nt like police.  Can you blame them if they seem a little
    apprehensive to come skipping and singing up to your car and play
    little games of why you should'nt be getting a ticket and that this cop
    should just go back to his cruiser and finish off his doughnuts?
    	  
	What would you all say to the Family of the Nepean Police officer
    who was killed while he sat quietly eating his lunch in a mall.  When a
    male came up to him and started to shoot at him point blank for no
    reason.  Would you say to his crying wife "Cops are useless"?
    
    	What about the 27 yeard old Police officer in Toronto who in 1995
    was killed when he was shot walking down the street, doing his job and
    protecting the public...you.
    
    	Every one loves a Fireman, our hero in times of need.  Smashing
    through a wall of flames to save us from death.  Every loves the
    Para-medics.   What about the two police officers, flag down by
    a pedestrian yelling about a bank robery.  The officers respond and
    chase the car down a one way street.  The robbers ditch the car and
    start shooting at police who have also taken off on foot.   Bang one
    officer goes down,  shot in the foot.  Bang another officer goes down
    with injuries that would retire him from the force.  For what?  For
    every one who has recieved a ticket from a police officer doing his job
    that your taxes pay for, to be called names, disrespected and
    unappreciated by society?
    
    	Should we make fun of and call every ones mother names too?
    When you were punished from  your mother did you every say she was
    useless?
  
    	Think for a moment if you would, what it must be like to be a
    police officer...To have every one expect you to solve their problems. 
    To listen to car after car complain that they did nothing wrong and
    that there gonna be late for something.  Imagine walking up to a car in
    the middle of the night, with all its windows tinted, and three guys in
    the car and one has a gun.  Imagine what it would be like if you
    were'nt going home to your family today.
    
    

    Wow! Catching up from '94?
    

 hasn't discovered the next unseen key

    Well I would like to hear a response from Rah.
    -ss

    That would be a trick, since he hasn't been here for a year.

    
    
    	re: .115
    
    	Some cops are good, some are bad, some are downright criminal. I've
    met all three kinds. To say people have no reason to complain about how
    some cops treat them is wrong. Some cops are "useless". 
    
    jim
    
    p.s - yes I am related to and work with cops on a regular basis.
    
    

    Cross posted in MENNOTES..
    
Cops..what do you think of them?

They have special laws that call for more severe sentences if you happen to
kill one of them.

They have all the 'toys'..the guns, the radios, the helicopters, the cars,
the vests, the support structures, the LAWS, to back them up.

They can arrest you if you don't answer them correctly, or if you don't
obey them quick enough.

Often the mere nature of the job attracts the worst candidates; those who
have a desire to control.

Yet the trend is to support and protect them, even though instances of them 
abusing their granted powers is on the rise.

They are chartered to serve and to protect. Yet they seek special protection
for their occupation, and many times abuse their position.

So, what do you think of cops?

Discuss.

John

         I wouldn't want their job. Having to deal with the very worst
    elements of society on a regular basis would give anyone a negative
    attitude. The question of whether or not cops should get special
    consideration is rather silly - they need special consideration in
    order to do their job effectively. 

    I hate the Gustapo.

See the existing Cops topic.

    
    You're right, John. Not being a frequent reader, I missed note 172.
    
    John

Gestapo  nnttm

> Note 14.12925                      News Briefs                    12925 of 12925
> BRITE::FYFE "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or" 20 lines   3-MAR-1997 12:17
> 
> I was pulled over for this very reason. Local cop was very peeved, especially
>since it hadn't been two weeks since they helped collect money from a couple
>of nasties who recently did damage to the hood of my car.
>
>He waded through his green 'law' book for awhile and then finally wrote me 
>up for improper opration of a motor vehicle.
>
>In court, after the charges were read and the cop gave his explaination, the 
>judge looked over to the cop and asked 'do you really want to push this one?'.

Hmm, interesting way to spend the taxpayers' money. This is exactly the kind
of thing that yanks my chain. Official harrassment for the sake of being
"very peeved". Is this really the kind of person we want wearing a gun
around? We give these guys more and more power, to "protect" us, when in
fact the Supreme Court has ruled that they are not ever required to do so.

 Speaking of COPS, it was pre-empted by some skating show Saturday night :-/



 Jim

>Hmm, interesting way to spend the taxpayers' money. This is exactly the kind
>of thing that yanks my chain. Official harrassment for the sake of being
>"very peeved". Is this really the kind of person we want wearing a gun
>around? We give these guys more and more power, to "protect" us, when in
>fact the Supreme Court has ruled that they are not ever required to do so.

Same police department, different cop, arrested my brother for possesion of
cocain, which he didn't have on him. The cop found residue in a glove found
behind the seat of my brothers friends pickup truck in which they were sitting.

Earlier that night this cop had been snorting in the mens room of the 
restaurant which owned the parking lot the truck was in. (Lots of
'inside' information I won't bore you with :-)

Long sad story follows about friend trying to blame friend and on and on.
Longterm friendship is over.

The case against my brother was finally thrown out of court.
His friend was found guilty. 

The cop was arrested shortly thereafter for forging prescritions and
drug usage. He was convicted.

Doug.

> <<< Note 172.140 by BRITE::FYFE "Use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without." >>>
>                -< Cops are just a cross section of society .... >-

What society, thugs and druggies?

These guys should be nearly total robots. Emotion has no place in law, and
espcially in enforcement. There should also be checks and balances. How do
cops get investigated for wrongdoing? By other cops. Gee, real impartial.

Don't get me wrong... we have to have some sort of law enforcement. But we
also have to be realistic about it. Just because someone puts on a badge
doesn't mean they are incapable of abusing power. Many folks, especially
politicians, can't see this.

    
 re .140
    
>These guys should be nearly total robots. Emotion has no place in law, and
>espcially in enforcement. There should also be checks and balances. How do
    
    In a perfect world it might happen. But in this life, COPS are justy
    like everyone else - there are good ones and there are a lot of bad
    ones.
    
    ed