Conference back40::soapbox

    What did he do again ? I can't remember.

    
    
    He killed and butchered a bunch of people and 
    the "et them"  
    
    
    Sin

    He was part of a three-man work detail.  He was killed, a second man
    was injured, and the third was taken into custody (what's the term for
    arresting a prisoner?).  The third man was serving a life sentence for
    murder.
    
    No motive has been proposed.
    
    I think wherever Jeffrey is now, he has a lot of explaining to do.

    
    was he killed with a fork?
    
    

    A broom handle, if memory serves...

    
    isn' it 'Dahmer' ? No 'l' ?
    
    

    
    ...or did he die during a food fight?

    While I ain't no fan of vigilante justice and therefore can not condone
    the method that was eventually used on Dahmer and send him on to meet
    his maker, I also detest the glorification of the media of "his
    rights".  A local reporter said they thought the prison officials did
    an injustice not to protect Dahmer better than they did.
    
    What about the rights of his victims?  I've had enough of criminals'
    rights.

    Jeffrey's case is an example where "public executions" would do a good
    job in crime prevention.

    
    Ron
    
    Criminals have no rights once they are convicted and sent to the pen,
    they forfeit them along with their freedom of movement. While it was
    a nasty way to die (are their any good ways?) I'm sure alot of people
    won't be shedding any tears for him. Now he has to go before the
    ultimate judge, I wouldn't want to be in his shoes.
    
    Mark

    Mark, I agree with your sentiments, but I disagree completely with your
    first sentence.  Even convicted and incarcerated criminals have rights
    -- less than you or I, but some still.

    
    What did Jeffery Dahmer say to Lorena Bobbit?
    
    
    "Are you going to eat that?"!
    
    
    Paul
    

	Beating him the bathrooms, what a waste of a perfectly good meal  %^)

    Unfortunately, I don't seem to have a life anymore... I was here (still
    trying to make the bloody RPCs work multi-threaded -- <gack!>) until
    very late last night. So.... what I'm about to "report" is second hand
    as told to me by my father this morning (we meet every Tuesday AM for
    breakfast) Anyway...
    
    It seems that Dahmer was killed in the prison gym, after getting in a
    fight with 2 other inmates... he was bludgeoned to death using the
    weights in the gym. He died of blunt trauma to the head.
    
    Apparently, there were supposed to be 2 or 3 guards on duty who were
    watching the gym, including one in a tower with a rifle. For some
    mysterious reason, none of the guards were present at the time of the
    fatal beating.
    
    Conclude what you will.
    
    -b

    
  >>  Conclude what you will.

	i conclude that somehow your father has scooped all the
	network news groups.  ;>

 The families of Dahmer's victims have hired an attorney who wants to 
 sell all the equipment seized from his apartment (pots, pans, freezers,etc)
 and share in the proceeds.




Jim

    My thoughts on Criminal rights, personal rights, other rights...
    
    	If we keep going the way we have been.. Our rights will end up
    trampling all over our freedoms.
    
    As for Dahlmer...a more fitting end could not have been envisioned.
    
    Rod	

Interesting to note that, in the past 24 hours since news of Dahmer's death
broke, I have not seen, read, or heard of any individual decrying the act
of his killer. There's been plenty of talk about the impropriety of his
act, but no one's yelling for his neck in a noose.

Not that I expect or desire to hear such, but interesting to note that it's
not happening, nonetheless.

	of course there's always the fact that he's already in prison
	for life, so it's sort of a moot point.

    <---    8*)
    
    
    
    Rick

    Well, it could have been a guard...

    RE: Steve in .3
                       
    >I think wherever Jeffrey is now, he has a lot of explaining to do.
    
    
    ..and why is that??

    I envisioned him having an interview with St. Peter: "Why did you kill
    this boy?  WHy did you dismember his body?  Why did you have sex with
    it?  WHy did you eat his flesh?"  Stuff like that...

 I've heard reports that Mr. Dahmer became a Christian while in prison.




Jim

    I don't think Dahmer will be doing an interviews with ol' St. Pete... I
    think the coductor already punched his destination ticket... :-)
    
    -b

    
    The state should have executed Dalmer, not another convict. 
    Vigilantism comes about when government doesn't perform the 
    way the masses would like them too.  No tears for Dalmer, but
    I think he was miserable in prison, now he is just dead.
    
    And in this day and age of criminals being victims, did you know
    that Dalmer wasn't that bad of a guy, he just had an eating disorder!
    
    /art
    

    
    the local rag reported that he had become a Christian in prison.
    
    jeff

    Thanks Jim...
    
    Yes, Steve, Dahmer accepted Jesus into his life while in prison and
    was baptised a Christian before his death.  
    
    Still think St. Peter gave him the "no go"?

    No doubt, he heard all this stuff about "eat my body and drink my
    blood"...
    
    -b

	Buck, if in his heart he truly meant it, he will be talking to St.
Peter. Of course it could end up like it did for Beavis...... :-)

    
    	You think Cardinal Law will be saying his Mass ? oh wrong death!

    I'm quite sure that any interviewing that Dahmer will be doing will be
    with ol' Scratch, himself, who undoubtedly has a nice warm bubbling
    lava pit reserved for him.
    
    At least this unofficial execution will save the taxpayers a possible
    million or more dollars worth of room and board, plus it leaves one
    more bunk available for a more deserving individual...

    
       I heard over the radio that Jeffrey was cleaning the bathroom
    when the other inmate beat him to death...
    
        Hm,,,, bathroom...   Maybe the other inmate was doing his thing?
    Jeffrey looked hungry?

    Title corrected because I couldn't stand it anymore.

    Let's face it... we'll be lucky if the information we get has
    a molecule of fact.
    
    Chip

    Thank you Chelsea, I couldn't stand it anymore either.

    From what I gathered that his head was slammed around a wee bit.... The
    inmate will have bragging rights for a fort night. And in the history
    of psycos... the killing inmate will go into history books. 
    
    There are undergrad courses in this subject. People like Jeff, of
    course our most famous Charlie Manson, and others are topic of
    classroom training. Get an 'A' in mass murdering 101.

    Don't forget JD's mentor:
    
    Hannibal "the cannibal" Lector.
    
    

I found interesting the news reports that mentioned
Dahmer's wish to die.  A death sentence or suicide was
preferable to life behind bars.

Maybe for killers who develop a conscience, a life
sentence *is* the ultimate punishment.  ??? years to
pass thru, reliving what you've done...  hmmm.

This also came up in Diane Sawyer's interviews with the
"Manson women" -- one of them mentioned that she'd have
preferred being put to death, rather than carrying the
guilt into old age.

joanne

               <<< PEAR::DKB100:[NOTES$LIBRARY]SOAPBOX.NOTE;1 >>>
                          -< Soapbox.  Just Soapbox. >-
================================================================================
Note 14.124                        News Briefs                        124 of 124
HAAG::HAAG "Rode hard. Put up wet."                  12 lines  29-NOV-1994 12:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >jerry rubin, formerly of the chicago 7 anti-war group during the '60's,
    >died last night in calif. from injuries sustained 2 weeks ago when he
    >was hit by a car. 
    
    he way jaywalking. remember that next time in downtown anywhere usa.
    
    BTW, the guy that beat dahmer to death is in prison for life. he is 25
    and sentenced for murder one. how ironic. those that despise the death
    penalty and the "hoardes screaming for heads" can now watch those that
    should have gone to the gallows butcher each other in jail. the guy who
    did the killing certainly has nothing to lose. he wasn't eligable for
    parol until 2054. they'll prolly up that to 2060 now.

EXCELLENT!!!!!

One less sicko to worry about getting paroled....

    Jack:
    
    Didn't you see my note against vigilantism?

For those of you so certain that Dahmer is on his way down to the bottomless
pit, I'd suggest that you consider that he may have truly repented and be in
better shape with God than someone who would condemn another to the fire.

And then again, he may not.

/john

Oh yeah, and I still think it's the height of bad form for Dahmer's belongings
to be auctioned off, even if it is to raise money for the victims' families.

And besides, who would want to own an 80 quart marmite in which various young
men's body parts had been boiled, anyway?

/john

    
    murica is the adopted home of bad form.

re: .43, Ron

>    Didn't you see my note against vigilantism?


Yes. And other notes that said similar things, to wit, "Dahmer's getting
offed by an inmate isn't a great thing." But no cries for his murderer's
head on a platter. There's a difference between saying an act is wrong
and asking for payback for the perp.

    Good news. What a joyous feeling that must give the families of his
    victims. Too bad we can't have more of these each week. Real shame this 
    Dahmer rearranger couldn't get a chance at Manson. 

    
    i've heard that the families do not necessarily consider it a good
    thing.  the hideous nature of his victim's death must go through the
    parents' mind often.  just thinking about him, seeing his face on t.v.,
    reading about him in the paper, considering his violent death - all of
    this only reminds the folks of their loss and intensifies their grief,
    at least for a while.
    
    i'm acquainted with grief and can understand their situation to some
    degree.
    
    jeff

Mother of one of Dahmer's victims on the Today show this AM expressed
sympathy for Dahmer's family, as she fully understands what they must
now be going through.

    
    Wanna bet Dahmer's family will sue the prison for failing
    to protect their boy?
    

    ... well the two family members of victims I saw interviewed did
        not express a-n-y sympathy, just a sense of justice.

	I don't think he will be let in to the hot pits below...

	Even there they will be afraid of him .... %^)

    I saw the DATELINE interview with Dahmer last night.  He was very
    candid and open about his crimes.  Almost sickeningly so...the thing
    that frightens me the most is that his appearance is as my next door
    neighbor.  
    
    My ex-husband used to criticize my "trusting" personality and I'd be
    mad at him for being so suspicious of everyone.... hmmm now I'm not so
    trusting anymore... I miss that part of my persona.
    
    

	That's the frightening part. Those you see and avoid
beacuse they look like crimals or scum are probably not the
ones to be afraid of. It's the friendly neighbor who graciously
offers to watch your kids that turns out to be the nasty one.

	You can't let your kids out of the house any more.

    >I saw the DATELINE interview with Dahmer last night.  He was very
    >candid and open about his crimes.  Almost sickeningly so...the thing
    
    there are people like that. most aren't locked up. it reminds of that
    movie the silence of the lambs when the docs were commenting on when
    the madman ate the tongue out of someones mouth and his pulse rate
    never went above 85. i've also seen people who could, while skinning
    another human alive, hum amazin grace while sucking on a lolipop.

    You saw this personally Gene?

	Those are the folks who become postal workers and
then eventually snap.

	On the news there was a segment about violence in
the workplace. They were saying that their is a profile
for the type of people who would snap and kill at work.
They mentioned having military background and/or owning
guns a long time were a few of the "dead" give aways.
Don't remember the rest.....

Heard something  on the news Dahmer's parents are fighting over who gets
his remains.

(Does it run in the family or something?)

-Madman

    >They mentioned having military background and/or owning
    >guns a long time were a few of the "dead" give aways.
    
    Give me a break. What a crock. Just proves what a lying stinking bucket
    of weasel piss you have to be to get a job on TV.
    
    -b
    

	The other item I remember was something like, people
who come from foreign backgrounds where guns are used to
solve desputes.

	I thought that one was really choice...........

	Where do they get this stuff, and where do they get
these reporters............%^(

    
    Note 110.61
    
    >Give me a break. What a crock. Just proves what a lying stinking bucket
    >of weasel piss you have to be to get a job on TV.
    
    C'mon, Brian...don't hold back.  Tell us how you *really* feel. :^)
    

    He also said in his interview that the reason he could do what he did
    was that he didn't have a concience.  He bought the evolutionary stuff
    and just believed there was no accountability for his actions.  He
    said, however, that since he's been in prison he's come to know Jesus
    Christ is real and is God and he KNEW God would judge him for what he's
    done.
    
    He didn't say, God forgave me and I'm okay now - he said, "I'll answer
    to God for what I've done."
    

    A psychopath has no conscience - whether he believes or disbelieves
    in god is irrelevant.   

    Make a good Borg I bet.

    >>You saw this personally Gene?
    
    only the results.

>	Where do they get this stuff, and where do they get
>these reporters............%^(
    
    	And where do they get all those people who believe them...

    Wow. This must have been damaging in some way, no?

    .65
    
    He was not a psychopath as far as I could tell.  He said he knew
    conciously what he was doing and he was motivated by "good looks" and
    the more gory it get the more lustful and sexually satisfying it
    became.
    
    But, I find it hilarious that you would doubt his OWN words, do you
    have some "in" with psychopaths?
    
    He emphatically stated that having been taught evolution created a
    disbelief in God for him, thus the accountability for his behavior was
    gone.  If when you die your dead, it didn't matter if he killed or was
    killed.
    

    So he was trying to blame evolution for his atrocities.

    Sounds to me like he wasn't too remorseful.
    
    Glenn

    <---- Ya, the crusades are a good example.

    He did talk about one episode that was *clearly* psychotic... he woke
    up in bed in a hotel where he slept with a man he picked up in a local
    bar... upon awakening, he realized he had beaten the man to death but
    could not remember doing it...
    
    Besides, should we trust the psychological self-diagnosis of someone
    like Jeffrey Dahmer? Certainly, something was not quite screwed on
    correctly...
    
    -b

    
    should we trust psychology at all?  though clearly a serious, heinous
    outworking of inner thoughts his behavior could be simply and accurately 
    characterized as "sin".  now some would imply that this sin
    is no worse than, say, obesity and we shouldn't criticize it.  but i
    think the consequences of our sins are how we usually measure their
    seriousness.
    
    jeff

    There's a difference between a psychopath and a psychotic.  A
    psychopath, otherwise known as a sociopath, has no conscience; s/he
    knows society's definition of right and wrong, but just doesn't give a
    damn about it.  A psychotic has problems dealing with reality.  It's
    not that s/he doesn't care, but that s/he isn't sure what it is.

    I view Dahmer's death as a failure in prison security and potentially,
    a lost opportunity for psychological study.
    
    From what little I saw of him being interviewed on TV, he struck me
    as perfectly sane and rational -- though, obviously, he had a
    compulsion to sexual murders and more.
    
     

    Chelsea:
    
    Well, for one thing, sociopaths and psychpaths are two different
    things -- they are *not* the same. Further, I didn't say that
    because Dahmer had a psychotic episode that he was a psychopath...
    I was refuting the claim that Dahmer wasn't mentally ill because
    he said he wasn't... bull. I gave an example which illustrates
    that he wasn't just your average sinner with an appetite for
    the bizarre. I'm not saying he was definitely mental ill; I'm
    making no diagnosis at all... but to say, "Well, he said he's
    fine so he must be" is silly (which you didn't say, someone
    else did... or at least said so in effect... )

    RE: .77
    
    >I view Dahmer's death as a failure in prison security and potentially,
    >a lost opportunity for psychological study.
    
    Not really.... they can still pick his brain...
    
    

    .64
    
    > He bought the evolutionary stuff
    > and just believed there was no accountability for his actions.
    
    most evolutionists don't believe that there is no accountability,
    they're god-fearing believers.  they simply don't buy the six-days
    hooey.  what dahmer bought was atheism, which is a different kettle of
    fish entirely, and i'll thank you to keep the difference straight.

    All that matters is how they react to theories and ideas.
    
    We need more theory and idea control.

    Re: .78
    
    >sociopaths and psychpaths are two different things -- they are *not*
    >the same
    
    So tell us the difference.
    
    >I didn't say that because Dahmer had a psychotic episode that he was a 
    >psychopath...
    
    So?  I never said you did.  I'd have referenced your note if that had
    been my intention.

    Re: .80
    
    >what dahmer bought was atheism,
    
    Not necessarily.  Atheists can believe in accountability, but to a
    mundane power rather than a spiritual one.

    "psychpaths"? Where's Chelseee

    Like the power of Gray Skull?

    .70
    
      >  He was not a psychopath as far as I could tell.  He said he knew
      >  conciously what he was doing...
    
      That's what a psychopath _is_.  The person knows what he's doing
      and he _enjoys_ it.  I have no 'in' with psychopaths as you 
      suggest, but I have read extensively about them.  Have you?
    
    

    Sociopath = my ex-wife.
    
    Psycopath = Norman Bates.
    
    Good match, actually...

    Chelsea,
    
    
    Thanks....
    
    
    IT needed it....
    
    
    Sin-te-da

    what... What.... WHAT?????

    Evolution was evidence to him that there was no God..., this led to his
    atheism [if you use the definition no God regardless of mundane
    powers]. Which led to his "no concience". 
    
    What he said, not me.  Take it or leave it.

    I'll leave it.
    
    Sounds to me like he was trying to blame what he did on something
    other than himself. Which tells me a lot.
    
    Glenn

    I took it as self analysis especially since he stated that he now
    believed in God would be accountable to Him.  This was accepting
    responsibility not running away from it.

    Regardless of his motives, his logic is flawed.  More than sufficient
    reason to "leave it."

    	Well, acording to some of the talk I'm seeing over in the evolution
    note, If he "accepted" God before he died, as his farther said he had,
    then he gets to go to Heaven not Hell. Doesn't seem Quite fair.
    
    
    								S.R

    	re .94
    
    	See the parable of the vineyard workers.

    
    I'm not quite sure whether I'm an atheist or not. (*)
    
    Yet I feel accountable for all of my actions. And I will also be
    judged by/for my actions. Judges are: my own conscience, my family, my
    friends, society, the iurisdictive powers and all human beings that have
    yet to be born.
    
    Heiko
    
    ----
    (*) There's a special word for that. Agnostic?

    Someone help... Simply because you huddle up the the evolutionary
    theory, right, wrong, and conscience are nonexistent?
    
    Flawed is an understatement...
    
    Chip

                We're all amoral Secular Humynists donchaknow.

    Speak for yourself,Dr Dan  :-)

    
    Having stumbled through The Origin of Species once, I fail to see
    what in Darwin would make one peckish for human flesh.  Did I miss
    a chapter ?
    
      bb

    Re: .90
    
       > Evolution was evidence to him that there was no God..., this led to
       > his atheism [if you use the definition no God regardless of mundane
       > powers]. Which led to his "no concience".
    
       JD probably was a liberal democrat, too.
    
       Just another good reason to vote Republican.

    But John Wayne Gacy was a Republican, so what are you gonna do?

    Unfortunately, many in here are taking Jeffrey Dahmers' words as being
    the only way to interpret a message.  We all have filters, we all see
    things differently, to simply respond that his reasoning is ludicrous
    is shallow commentary.
    
    Nancy

    .103
    
    Yeah, but was John Wayne Gacy a creationist or an evolutionist? 
    Knowing the answer would shed a lot of light on his pyschopathology,
    doncha think?

    He was a republican.

    
    
    See!!!!!  Meowski's right about dem repubs!!!!!
    

    .105 see .103... works both ways.  

.108 see .105.  I was replying to .103.

Once we clear up Gacy's political and religious affiliations
as they relate to his psychopathology, then we can go on to
ask other pertinent questions, such as:

Did JWG part his hair on the right side or the left side?

If JWG and Dahmer got into a philosophical discussion on the
nature of god, who would win?

Did JWG prefer neckties or bow ties?

    SNARF

 Oooh!

    What was served at Jeffrey Dahmer's wake?
    
    FINGER SANDWICHES

    with grated nerves.

Nope, I heard it was Dahmernose pizza.

(insert groans here)

The other inmate who was beaten along with Dahmer is no longer in critical
condition.

He's daid.

/john

    I heard on the news that the murderer of these two murderers believes
    himself to be "son of God" -- or some such.

    
    
    Oh, and don't forget.. he's black...
    
    (Figured I'd say it before some liberal does...)
    

    ******  **** ***** ********* ****** ****
    
    
    
    THIS JUST IN... Coroner did an Autopsy on Dahmer and they found
    
                JIMMIE HOFFA...
    
    
    
    
    
    Sin-te-da

    re: .87
    
      One of the funniest replies I ever read!!
    
    on Dahmer:
    I can't help feeling sorry for the guy and I believe God feels
    sorry for him too.  I saw the interview and the single thing 
    that struck me was that he said when he was a teenager, he had
    thoughts that he considered "unsharable."
    
    How would you like to be weird to the max, know that you are, 
    and feel that there is literally nobody you can turn to for 
    some kind of help.  I'll bet he didn't want those weird compulsions.
    
    The record also indicates it was years between the death of the
    first person he murdered and the second one.  All the while he is
    walking around probably convinced he is the most perverted thing 
    to walk the face of this earth and he can't share his thoughts
    because they are "unsharable" as he put it.
    
    As far as the evolution thing.  I appreciate the spin people are
    putting on it, but his spin (going by his words) is that thinking
    there is no God, he had no sense of ultimate accountability.  My
    feeling is that I have known some professed atheists who have at
    least a sense of altruism.  They would have a sense of not doing a
    certain thing because its wrong.  Apparently, altruism wasn't enough
    motivation for Dahmer, he needed an egocentric one, i.e. abject fear
    as in "There's a God and if I do this I might fry!"
    
    Still, if such a fear motivation can suppress bogus outward acts,
    I'll take 'em!!!
    
    Anyway, I hope Dahmer is saved, but I wonder if a heart as hard as
    it must be to be able to do what he did, is able to be drawn anymore
    by the love of God.  I guess only God knows.
    
                                                 Tony

    I caught part of an interview with Dahmer's mother (who is a licensed
    psychologist BTW); she stated that although he had been attacked
    earlier this summer it was Dahmer's request NOT to be isolated from
    the rest of the prison population (read into that what you will).
    
    Apparently it is now SOP for most prisons to keep high profile
    prisoners isolated from the prison population because they know 
    there usually will be some nutcase who will kill someone like
    Dahmer just for the notoriety.
    
    

    
    Too bad Dahmer's dead. We could have fed Barney to him.
    
    ;^)

    I caught a clip of 'Demolition Man' yesterday evening, the part
    where Pheonix is defrosting his palls. Never noticed before but
    he quotes "Jeffery Dahmer, I love this guy!" As if to say de-ice
    him.

    
    The perp is claiming "God told him to do it".  Enterred courtroom
    singing/chanting hymns, I'm told....
    
      bb

    
    <-------
    
    He looks much bigger than any rabbit I've ever seen!!!
    

    
    "Well that's no ordinary rabbit!  That's the most foul, cruel, and 
    bad-tempered rodent you've ever set eyes on!  He's got huge, sharp... he 
    can leap about...LOOK AT THE BONES!
    ...
    I warned you, but did you listen to me?  Oh, no, you know, didn't you?  Oh, 
    it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?  Well it's always the same, 
    I always say... I always tell them but do they listen to me?  No..."
    
    

        Manky Scots git!    

    re .125
    
    giggle, I loves that movie !! But don't start now 'cause I most
    unfortunately manager to memorise most of it. I think I watched
    it a few too many times !!!!

    
    <-- no such thing as watching _MP&THG_ too many times, kind of like 
        _It's A Wonderful Life_.

    But, me's a Brit, and therefore must do unto one's countrymen and 
    all that whatever !!!!!

    BTW, What's _It's A Wonderful Life_ ????

    
    Cossack!!

    
    
    Tell him, Deb.  Only one of the finest pieces off celluloid ever to
    come out of hollyweird.
    
    
    Mike

    cellulite, did somebody mention cellulite???

    
    	This happened almost two and a half years ago?
    
    	My, how time flies.
    

    yeah, i really miss the guy.