Conference napalm::heavy_metal

    RAP is cRAP!

>    A DisCussIon on This Type of Music that is Doing the World No_Good.

	This is a pretty vague, not to mention absurd statement.  Isn't
	RATM considered RAP, or how 'bout The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy.
	These two are definitely not "Doing the World No_Good!"

	IMHFO
	/Cap'n Quad 

    Don't forget Red Hot Chili Peppers....they also have a *rap* sound.
    
    

    Yeah, but they're not hate rock, and I don't think RATM is either. 
    (although I've never heard them)

    Ken you might want to actually listen to RATM before you *assume*
    anything!!! They are not exactly a 'hate' rap but a very angry bunch.
    And most of the 'hate' rap does have something worth thinking about!

>Title: Don't forget that's what people said bout R&R

    >Don't forget Red Hot Chili Peppers....they also have a *rap* sound.
    
   I'm not singling you out on purpose!  "...gotta take what I got and
   put it in you" isn't my idea of promoting a 'good' theme. And not
   forgetting that's what people said about R&R, it has it moments of
   promoting crap also, IMO. Thankfully the good R&R keeps showing up to
   counter-balance the lame/worthless stuff (which is probably the good
   stuff to somebody else 8^).
   
   In rap, rock and everything else: there's good and bad in all, lyrically
   and musically. Can't say I like rap, but there's been some songs that
   caught my ear (like the above song, 'cept the words turn me off cuz
   I'm not fifteen anymore 8^).

   Rathole topic to get the noters writing again?!  ;^)

   Droid

    
>   I'm not singling you out on purpose!  "...gotta take what I got and
>   put it in you" isn't my idea of promoting a 'good' theme. And not
>   forgetting that's what people said about R&R, it has it moments of

    Maybe it's not a "good" theme, but it's certainly a far cry from "hate"
   
>   In rap, rock and everything else: there's good and bad in all, lyrically
>   and musically. Can't say I like rap, but there's been some songs that
>   caught my ear (like the above song, 'cept the words turn me off cuz
>   I'm not fifteen anymore 8^).

    You should at least take a listen to the Disposable Heroes, adult rap
    and not at all vulgar...except where necessary!  Very "today" orientated.

	/Cap'n Quad
	

    Let me you thunk Perfectly_Clear.
    I didn't Start this Note to say that"Rap is Hate Music",only.
    I'm Sayin that their is"Rap_Hate"Music and there is"Rock_Hate"Music.
    There's A Show About it that Aired on MTV Lasted_Nite.I didn't see
    it But I will catch it Some_Times.(You know how they Re_Peat things).
    All I'm sayin that both these types of Music are not helpin the
    Racial_Tention in this Country and Europe.A_Lotta Whites Connect
    the Hate_Rock with Naziism,While Some Blacks View Hate_Rap as
    Black_Power againest Whitey.
    
      Crazy_Let_Me_Make_This_Perfectly_Clear_Nixon_Al

    
    Let's be honest and admit that the majority of popular rap
    is "gangsta rap" and it ain't about love and harmony.
    Not that I'm for or against that... I like a little hate
    in some of my music, but I resent when it's racial because 
    I can't relate sometimes, because of my opinions on racism.
    
    To the person that completely misquoted the RHCP song 
    Give it Away by saying the words were something like 'gotta
    take what I got and put it in you': get a life, snapperhead.
    That line is really "what I got you gotta get it, put it in
    you" and the song is about being charitable and getting pleasure
    by giving your money and love to others.
    The only "hate" I can associate with RHCP is their disdain for
    the treatment of Native Americans in Johnny (Kick a Hole in
    the Sky)                  
    
    /Motorbreath

    > A DisCussIon on This Type of Music that is Doing the World No_Good.
    
    Moderators, please move this note to the Metallica note.  
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

Hey Motorbrain 8^)

    >That line is really "what I got you gotta get it, put it in
    >you" and the song is about being charitable and getting pleasure
    >by giving your money and love to others.
   
Gee sorry, I missed it by 'that' much ;^).  The point is I only heard it
on the radio and this line is belted at you so much, you can't miss it
and he ain't all that legible thankyouberrymuch. So I missed his point,
to bad HE didn't make it clear. Most people I know took this dirty, so I
know it ain't just me.

Snapperhead_Droid
 

    Just for the record, I interpreted that line as "dirty" too.
    
    |KS|
    

>    Just for the record, I interpreted that line as "dirty" too.

Me too. Not that I give a shite...but this is a humerous discussion so. :^)
    

-a

Yea, it is pretty wiped, eh?! I just realized my spelling of 'knickname' 
too, ouch!

    I Don't think this is Funny.There are People out there Bashin
    Each_Other over Their Heads!! And it's Because of Prejudice.
    And this Music just Spurs it on.
    I know That R&R can lead to Sex_And_Drugs_And_Rock_And_Roll..
    But I can live with that. I have So Far Any_Ways ;_),
    This Music is just leadin to "Bash_Yer_Brother" kindda tudes.
    What the F*ck is it good for!!! It's puttin kindlin on the Fire.
    And it's on the Rise.
    Watch the MTV Special (If_You_Care_To).
    
    Crazy_I_Hate_Gettin_Deep_Al

    
    has anybody actually seen the special???  i wasn't really aware that
    this was a big thing, but i did see the scenes with the band members in
    nazi uniforms with violent crowds getting into the music, etc.
    

    MTV's making it look like a big deal, probably because it's a good 
    sensational shocker type thing.  They've shown segments on "The Week In
    Rock" (their weekend "news" show) for the last 2-3 weeks talking about
    racist skinhead bands and stuff, and now they've put together this
    special thing on it.  As far as I can tell, there's not a big following
    to this, and MTV's just spreading it around 'cause sensationalism makes
    for better ratings.
    
    gh

    Oh yeah, and before someone starts slammin on me for my cynicism, I
    have as much distaste for those racist scum as anyone I know.  I find
    the whole issue thoroughly disgusting and am appalled that people would
    (ab)use music to spread this kind of message.

    gh

I didn't mean to insinuate that this TOPIC was humerous at all.
Racial violence in any way shape or form is VERY serious and I'm 
totally against it too.

Unfortunatly fighting voilence with violence is NOT the answer. Dr. King
had it right, IMO.

-a

RE: gh

Yea, exactly. Al, I've always felt that music should be constructive,
positive, and worthwhile.  I have respect for all the artists that 
have the guts to write it, too bad the haters get even a second
of publicity. What do they expect to prove or get? The same treatment?!

Droid

	re .17:

	exactly.

	MTV like other 'news deliver institutions' needs sensations to 
	attract people to buy (watch, in this case) their products.
	If you currently don't have something exciting to show you invent
	a 'big story' and make a theme out of it. What is tragical about
	it is that idiots feel themself inspired by this and act accordingly.
	Bands will continue to make this kind of music as they therefor 
	even get extra airplay. Result: $$$ for the bands, $$$ for MTV and
	hospital for the victims.

	'Journalism' today means to think of a story and then turn around
	the facts until they fit to what sells best. 

	...SJ...
	
    

    Folks,
    
    I can not believe what I'm hearing - go back and re-read your notes
    and you will see that a frightening number of things that have been
    said are essentially the same kinds of reasoning that the PMRC used 
    to justify record labels:
    
    	"music should be constructive, positive, and worthwhile."
    
    	"this Music just Spurs it on"
    
    	"This Type of Music that is Doing the World No_Good."
    
    Amazingly enough, that last quote is almost EXACTLY what Jesse Helms
    once said about rock.
    
    	db

    You're right, db.  Good point.  But I do find that partcular subset of
    rock to be disgusting.  I also think it's bogus for MTV to be dredging
    it up just to boost their ratings.  It's underground now, and can stay
    there for all I care.
    
    gh

    This Shite is still goin on Heavy in Germany.
    Theres An Article in Novembers Rolling_Stone That I'll Gladly_Post
    if Any_One is Interested.It's InTitled"Germany Stomps Skin_Head Music."
    
      Crazy_Third_Reich_&_Roll_Al???
    
                    I Don't Even Think Sooooooooo

    
    
    	Hi Crazy_...
    
    	I am interested, please post it, thanks
    
    	...SJ...

                 GERMANY STOMPS SKINHEAD MUSIC
    --------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hate Crime is on the rise Across Europe and America.In the last three
    years in the U.S.,22 Murders were allegedly Committed by Racist
    Skinheads,according to AntiDefamation League of B'nai B'rith.In
    Germany,where vicious attacks on Non_Germans by Neo_Nazi Youths are
    practically a daily occurance,the best orchestrated-and best publicized
    -police actions have targeted not the actual perpetrators but the Rock
    Bands whos music is said to inspire the Violence.
    Unlike the U.S.,Germany has no First_Amendment.Certain types of speech,
    percieved as dangerous or disruptive,are banned.There,an intelligence
    agency,the Office for the Protection of the Constitution,monitors
    Skinhead bands.,transcribing the lyrics so they can gather legal
    evidence.
      Since the begining of the year,The German Police have staged regular
    raids,searching the homes of Skinhead band members and a variety of 
    record distributors.The first happened in January;1,500 records and 
    250 CD's were seized in southwest Germany from bussinesses and private
    homes.A month later in a nation wide raid,records were confiscated from
    bussinesses such as Rock_o_Rama,a former Punk label that mutated into
    Germany's most notorious publisher of facist Records.In mid_July, the 
    police raided the offices of the publishers of Skinhead Fanzines.
      The bands routinely violate German laws forbidding the use of Nazi
    language and symbols and the spreading of propaganda that incites 
    violence of of racial hatred.And unlike the youths who beat up
    foreigners or burn down their houses,the bands are relatively easy to
    catch.As Graeme Atkinson,a Frankfurt_Based editor of the British
    Anti_Fascist magazine"SearchLight",puts it:"The bands are the most
    visable element on the scene.They're like a Cucumber in a bag of
    Srawberries."  (What_The_Hell_Does_That_Mean...)
      Confiscating truckloads of recordings and fanzines has not made the 
    facist thugs magically disappear.However,the violence continues
    unabated."[The raids]are not very dangerous for the Skins"argues
    Michael"Moses"Arndt,the editor of A Weel_Established_Leftist Fanzine,
    ZAP."The police say'Look,We are doing Something,'in fact,they do
    nothing."
      The most tangible result of the raids is what could be called a Hot
    100 of Skinhead songs:a long list of recordings banned for sale to
    those under 18,issued by a German Goverment office called the Federal
    Examiner for Writing Which Endangers Youth.
      Arndt and other Music Industry sources claim that these police
    actions only turn the Neo_Nazi band members into Heroes.They insist
    that the sale of a record by Storkraft(Whose name means"Distruptive
    Force"and who are one of the best known Skinhead bands)have multiplied
    tenfold to 50,000 since the raids began.(The number is impossible to 
    verify,since Neo_Nazi records,sold only by Under_Ground mail order
    distributors,don't appear on industry charts.)
      In March the band Radikahl was tried in their hometown of Nuremberg
    for"disseminating propaganda fpr organizations adverse to the state."
    At issue was thr band's repeated performance of a song
    called"Hakenkreuz,"which means"Swastika.""Put the Nobel Prize on Adolf
    Hitler,"lead singer Mandi W.,22,would sing."Hoist the Red Flag with the
    Swastika."
      Radikahl members,in what has become a key legal strategy for such
    bands,denied that the song was really theirs.They testified that they
    picked it up,unthinkingly,the way one might lift a pen from someone
    else's des,from an earlier incarnation of their band called
    Giftgas(German for"Poison_Gas").
      Radikahl argued that they were just guys who like to play Rock n
    Roll."We simply want to be a band",guitarist Peter U.said."I'm only 
    interested in the feel of the guitar,"said guitartist Thomas S.The band
    members were convicted of spreading propaganda but were only given
    fines ranging from $4,500 to $6,700.
      Some Skinhead rockers were clever enough to start reinventing
    themselves well before their day in court.For exsample,in the May issue
    of a slick,Neo_Nazi fanzine,Moderne Zeiten(Modern Times),Storkraft's
    Jorg Petrisch,who is notorious for leading his audience in the Nazi
    saluate,claims that his legal problems(and bad press)can be blamed on
    his fans.They were the ones who had the brawls,cried"Sieg Heil"and
    destroyed property while the band innocently played"songs againest
    drugs and for friendship".
      Petritsch reportedly tells fans,"Use your brian,for talk is
    silver,and silence is gold."With this supposed message of tolerance,
    he could be sharing the lesson he learned from police raids:Discretion
    pays off.In September,Petritsch was sentenced to two years probation..
      According to Cologne_Based rock journalist Ralph Christoph,Petritsch
    got off easy because he told the judge that he doesn't want to sing
    about hate anymore.Christoph,who has Co_authored a book on rock and 
    politics in Germany,argues that xenophobia ccan't be solved through 
    censorship because the extremist rock bands are only expressing,albeit
    crudely,anti_foreigner sentiments held by more mainstream elements of
    German society.He also points out that untill recently cencorship was 
    used primarily againest those with Left_Wing views.Those who speak out
    againest the Neo_Nazis are also subject to censorship.
      "They are blind in the Right eye,"asserts Staffi Agoropoulos,the
    singer and guitarist of a Thrash_Metal band from Bremen,Rumble Militia.
    Agoropoulos says that the German goverment excuses the crimes of
    Right_Wing extremists and goes after leftists,such as the militant
    Anti_Fascists,who fight back.
      Rumble Militia's latest CD is an outcry againest Neo_Nazi violence.
    The title song,"Wieviel Hass Wollt Ihr Noch?"(How Much Hate Do You
    Still Want?"),lists the locations of the most infamous acts of Skinhead
    terror and declares,"I've had Enough!"It then challenges the Skinheads
    with a question,"Why not throw Molotov CockTails at BigWigs?"
      The CD was pressed in Norway and shipped back to Germany.In Hamburg,
    A customs officer read the lyrics on the back cover of the CD and and 
    called the special bureau which deals with Left_Wing Terrorism.In June
    the police visited Robert Kampf,who runs Century Media Records_Germany
    in Dortmund,Rumble Militia's label at the time.According to Kampf,the
    police knew it would not be good publicity to prosecute a band for a 
    song againest skinhead violence so soon after a deadly arson attack by
    Right_Wing youths on a Turkish home in Solingen in May.Kampf recalls
    being told,"If you don't sell the album anymore,we don't make an
    Issue."
      "To call publicly for violence,thats what they said I did,and it's
    againest the Law,"says Agoropoulos.Rumble Militia-consisting of 
    Agoropoulos,who's Greek,A Turkish guitarist,A Bulgarian bassist and 
    A German drummer-are the perfect multicultural retort to Neo_Nazi rock,
    and they've been censored.Unlike Storkraft,Rumble Militia haven't
    learned to speak in code."For the last time,we printed the lyrics on
    the cover,"Agoropoulos says."Maybe that was my fault."
    
                 by Karrie Jacobs/Rolling_Stone Magazine.

    re: -1
    
  >  Confiscating truckloads of recordings and fanzines has not made the 
  >  facist thugs magically disappear.
    
    Gee, I would have though that would have done it!  :')
    
  >  "I'm only 
  >  interested in the feel of the guitar,"said guitartist Thomas S.
    
    Guess he's not interested in the sound huh?
    
    Thanks_for_typing_that_in_Al!
    
    |KS|
    
    

    
    	Thanks AL,
    
    	currently don't find the time to reply more.
    
    	...SJ...