| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 333.1 | How do ya dodat ? | ASAHI::COOPER | Barf and Puke | Tue Nov 15 1988 11:11 | 8 |
| I have the first question too.
How do you find the cross over points of speakers that aren't
labeled ? Ergo, how do I know where to set my cross over to optimize
the speakers ?
Thanks,
jc
|
| 333.2 | For Sound Man read SCREWBALL!!! | NEEPS::IRVINE | Heaven Sent....That's ME :^} | Wed Nov 16 1988 10:25 | 111 |
|
Yo! jc, Here's my I/P for what it's worth.
Setting your crossover depends entirely on the Venue
where you are playing. As long as you are not driving
your speakers to the point of destruction. In a long
venue you may want the bass to be pushed a bit harder,
whereas in a small venue you don't want to vibrate the
crowds ball$ off. It's a matter of experience and
personal taste.(a bit depends on how well loaded your
speakers are and the sort of sound pressures being
produced).
This bit is for your Sound Man 8^).
Taking on the job of Sound Man displays a certain sanity
(or lack of it). The best advice I can offer is as
follows:
1) Go to every rehearsal and learn the songs!
2) Listen to each individual and try to remember the
sound that he/she/it is producing.
3) Set up the P.A. at the rehearsal hall and PRACTICE!
4) Whatever kind of desk you are using will dictate
exactly what you can and can't do. Do not try to make
a 16-2 desk do what a 16-8-4-2 was designed for.
5) At the sound check I would start with the vocals and
would make them loud. You can remember always turn
them down, whereas if they are not loud enough you
could end up with problems. When sound checking
vocals there are two things you will have to do.
i) Turn of all the monitors. Unless you are going to
mix the monitors on a separate desk, the monitors are
secondary to the overall sound, and the band has to
realise this.
ii) Remember that some Vocal effects will effect the
overall signal gain that you have to play with.
6) I would then sound check the Guitars, again making
them loud (remember you can turn them down if
necessary), and panning them stage left and stage
right. Panning the guitars will help make each
guitarists sound more distinct. With modern
guitarists tendency to use multiple effects, the
sound can get quite thick.
Bass Guitar should be loud enough to be punchy but
not overpowering.
7) Next for me would be the drums. Making each one loud
enough to hear but with the Bass drum and snare
accentuated. Solid bass drum and snare is very
desirable. (listen to Motley Crue Girls album)
8) This is where the fun begins. The mix itself. Most
bands rehearse with the sound that they like and it
is up to you to reproduce this sound as far as is
practicable.(do not make the overall sound suffer for
one band member's ego!)
9) When mixing it down, make sure that everything is
clear and loud enough, with the vocals just cutting
over everything else.
10) You should now have the general mix and it is time
to pull in the monitors, drum fill, etc. Make them
as loud as the band wants them to be but not to the
point of Feedback (obvious eh!).
Form this point the job should be easy. DO NOT RELAX!!!
There will always be something just waiting to go wrong,
and if it can it will wait until the band are on stage.
Obvious things are as follows:
a) It may not be loud enough.
b) It may be too loud.
c) And worst of all, members of the band may start
messing with their sound after the sound check.
(Guitarists are the biggest pain in the a$$ for
this. It's something to do with their EGO'S)
Don't let the band walk all over you. They will try it
but be firm and make sure that you are at least
relatively sober until after the show!8^).
By the way jc. I have a tips book from 3RD GENERATION
MIXERS that mat help in setting the desk up. If you want
it let me know and I shall copy it to allin1 and send it
off to you.
Sober for the mean time,
BONZO.
|
| 333.3 | Try this instead! | NEEPS::IRVINE | Heaven Sent....That's ME :^} | Thu Nov 17 1988 12:29 | 7 |
| It looks like jc is struck dumb by my last reply, so here it is
in an easier format.
Forget EGO's Just make them sound good.
BONZO.
who_thinks_this_version_may_be_over_simplified.
|
| 333.4 | There are some good ones,,,,, | 12154::PELKEY | Head for the Mountains, Bush is pres ! | Fri Nov 18 1988 15:57 | 44 |
| My observations... and I've been there a lot of times with this
and hope I can add some value to this topic.
first, get the drums mixed, Each drum, get a good sound on all of
them, then work em all in together. Paying close attention
to the Kick and the Snare.
Then mix the bass.
Get a good solid/smooth bottom end, (bass&Drums) then everything else
should just fit over that.
As far as corssovers and all that goes, it depends more on the
design of your cabinets. Cabinets are tuned to Frequncy responses,
then it's how much the speakers will take (cleanly) on the
volume end, and this where getting good speakers and drivers is a
benifit for a good clean sounding system.
As far as general pointers go, make sure those vocals are the single
most defineable point in the mix. Guitars, keys, bass and drums
shouldn't be over the vocals,,, EVER.
Another pointer is to get the musicians depending on the soundman to
get them "out" through the mains. Stage volume wars *destroy* any
effort even the best sound man can give to running a fine mix. The
amplifiers on stage should just be there for the musicians on stage,
and not get out into the mix.
A good way to help this along is to set the amps up so that
their sound is firing cross stage as opposed to being set up along
the back wall where the speakers are firing right out into the house.
This will only entangle with the mix, and confuse your sound man.
It will aslo attribute to him losing control over the sound as he
will not be easily able to identify whats going on cuz he's just
got too much comming from the stage into the house...
Best pointer I can reiterate though is to make sure to have the
guys on stage get a sound *they* want on stage. The sound man
will take care of the rest. If he's a good sound man, than let
him do his job, and don't worry weather or not *your* getting
through. Trust him, especially if your paying him..
|
| 333.5 | Mixing Board Information | BTOVT::BAGDY_M | On the road to madness. . . | Wed Oct 25 1989 21:49 | 25 |
| ��
Well, since I can't seem to find a topic on
mixing boards and other assorted equipment, I'm
going to start a new topic. (My first ! :^)) If
there's somewhere else that this will fit into
Mod's, please feel free to move it. (But I'm not
waiting until you guys wake up either ! :^))
My brother was flipping through a local Vermont
paper and noticed and add for a Crest mixer.
Specs on it said. . .8x2x1, 4-band Eq., three
sends. $400.00
What he wanted to know (and since there's a
massive amount of knowledge in here) is if Crest
is a good mixer and if that's a half way descent
price for one. He's attempting to get the
equipment together to start a band and had been
looking at getting a Carvin, but if this is
anything comperable, he could save $800 by
getting this instead.
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
METALord"�
|
| 333.6 | | ASAHI::COOPER | Built to BLAST ! | Thu Oct 26 1989 11:34 | 9 |
| Depending on what he wanted to do with the band/board, 8 channels
may not be enough... I suggest going for a reasonably priced used
16 channel mixer... If the price is a little prohibitive, perhaps
you can use the 8 channel mixer for a while, and when your PA grows,
you can premix the drums with the 8 channel.
I'm not familiar with Crest's products though... Just my $.02
jc
|
| 333.8 | Pay the extra... | KDCFS1::FREEMAN | | Thu Oct 26 1989 11:49 | 13 |
| Sounds like somebody trying to unload their old junk. Three sends
may mean 2 stereo outs and one monitor out. He would probably end
up wasting one of the eight channels just to have an effects in
for echo or reverb. Another probability is that the mixer has old
technology op-amps on each strip which will generate more noise
than the more recent Carvin.
Cooper is right though; might be a better idea for the drummer to
buy the eight channel and sub-mix himself. But,if the band is only at
the first rehearsal stage, drums are usually plenty loud for a basement
or private studio. Quality of the 8 channel probably wouldn't be
acceptable live.
R.F.
|
| 333.9 | | PNO::HEISER | I'm bad...I'm international | Thu Oct 26 1989 15:37 | 9 |
| I use a Tangent 16 channel mixer every week. It is nice but is missing
some features that I like (i.e., built-in reverb, lamp, and the ability
to talk in the monitor system so I can communicate with the
performers).
I think he would be better off checking out Carvin and possibly Peavey
(who also make some nice mixers).
Mike
|
| 333.10 | | BTOVT::BAGDY_M | On the road to madness. . . | Thu Oct 26 1989 20:06 | 22 |
|
He told me tonight that he called the guy that
was selling it. Turns out it's made by Cresher
or Cesslar (something like that) out of England.
The history of them was that when they were first
sold, they had a problem and had to recall them.
After that, no dealers wanted to touch them and
they kinda' became a thing of the past. The guy
changed his mind and decided not to sell it.
I guess he's going to look at a 12 or 16 channel
mixer. Said the drummer will have to supply his
own, since he doesn't want to buy all the
equipment that the band would use. Makes sense,
since he's got champagne tastes on a beer
pocketbook. :^)
Oh yeah. . .looks like I'm the bass player for
the band. Just gotta' love it ! :^) (At least
it's rock and roll, but alas. . .it's not METAL.)
METALord"�
|
| 333.11 | it's fun though | PNO::HEISER | love inhalation | Wed Dec 12 1990 14:11 | 9 |
| Interesting replies in here! I was "baptized by fire" when it came to
learning sound. Our church needed someone to do it and I volunteered.
The only real challenge I have now is doing the special presentations
during the holidays. Our choir is big, so I have the cantata to worry
about. Plus the drama parts and lights (spotlights and ceiling
lights).
Mike
|
| 333.12 | They're a rockin! | ICS::BUCKLEY | and he shall reign for ever and ever | Wed Dec 12 1990 14:14 | 6 |
| >The only real challenge I have now is doing the special presentations
>during the holidays. Our choir is big,
Cool! Are you guys doing any bitchin black spirituals?
Buck, whos wicked into gospel tunes!!!
|
| 333.13 | | PNO::HEISER | love inhalation | Wed Dec 12 1990 14:20 | 15 |
| Re: -1
Not this year, but we have. We usually purchase the tracks and books
for the cantatas and perform them.
The best church I ever attended was a black gospel church on Ft.
Devens. That place was jumpin'! I went there from the summer of '79
to the fall of '80. Then I moved to Phoenix. Their potluck dinners
were great too! Talk about great soul food!
Some of the big churches (i.e., 5000+ people, 100+ voice choirs) around
here use live orchestras for the cantatas. I'd love to do sound for
some of those!
Mike
|
| 333.14 | | ICS::BUCKLEY | and he shall reign for ever and ever | Wed Dec 12 1990 14:29 | 8 |
| -1
actually, the bigger the ensemble, the less micing you need.
Basically, two mics in an X-Y pattern, or an M-S pattern does
nicely! With the option of an overhead in omni mode for ambience!
B.
|
| 333.15 | | PNO::HEISER | love inhalation | Wed Dec 12 1990 15:36 | 10 |
| Buck, when they built our new sanctuary, I told them to put reels
above the ceiling so we could drop mics from overhead. They said they
didn't want to limit the position of the choir.
Re: your p_n
We've never done this and I'm not real familiar with it (other than
that song). Is this a Christmas piece or Easter piece?
Mike
|
| 333.16 | | ICS::BUCKLEY | and he shall reign for ever and ever | Wed Dec 12 1990 15:52 | 8 |
| RE: my p_n...
I thought I sent ya mail on it? But my cluster has been so wigged out
of late, my mail probbaly went off into VAXpurgatory!
It's traditionally a Christmas piece...a line taken from the Hallelujah
Chorus, which is in the 2nd movement, towards the end of the Messiah
by George Frederick Handel! The piece totally roolz!!
|
| 333.17 | | BTOVT::BAGDY_M | I'm the Lord of the Wastelands | Thu Dec 13 1990 06:54 | 11 |
| | Chorus, which is in the 2nd movement, towards the end of the Messiah
| by George Frederick Handel! The piece totally roolz!!
The choir that I used to be in (of which there were so many)
used to do that just about every Christmas. My parents told
me once that the first time I sang that song was when I was
about four years old. It's just that I've gone from Soprano
to Alto to Tenor through the years. :^)
METALord"�
|
| 333.18 | deja vu! | ICS::BUCKLEY | and he shall reign for ever and ever | Thu Dec 13 1990 09:55 | 10 |
| >It's just that I've gone from Soprano to Alto to Tenor through the
>years. :^)
No way, that's a riot!!!
I started my singing career in the 4th grade...did District and all
that stuff...I can say that I've sung major pieces in ALL of the 4
vocal ranges!! ;^)
Buck, once a soprano, now a true baratone! ;^)
|
| 333.19 | | PNO::HEISER | love inhalation | Thu Dec 13 1990 11:31 | 3 |
| Re: tenor
is that like tenor 12 miles from everyone else? ;-)
|
| 333.20 | Just keep that mike away from me and we'll all be safe! | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Join the Brotherhood of Tone | Thu Dec 13 1990 18:47 | 5 |
| I started my singing career in church choir when I was probably four or
five. I've gone from singing something like soprano to sometime
something like frog...
gh
|
| 333.21 | "Somebody saaaaave me !" ... *flush* | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Joke 'em if they can't take a ... | Fri Dec 14 1990 01:29 | 4 |
| I started my singing career in the bathroom ... and that's about where
it should be ! 8^)
Scary
|
| 333.22 | that's my voice? | PNO::HEISER | love inhalation | Fri Dec 14 1990 11:20 | 1 |
| ...then along comes puberty and it ruins everything ;-)
|
| 333.23 | | BTOVT::BAGDY_M | I'm the Lord of the Wastelands | Fri Dec 14 1990 11:46 | 10 |
|
At least I can honestly say that I don't need a
bucket/basket/pickup truck/dump truck/ bucket loader to carry
a tune ! :^)
RE: Scary and `Somebody save me' *flush* !
I'm roooooolin' on that one !
METALord"�
|
| 333.24 | | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Joke 'em if they can't take a ... | Fri Dec 14 1990 21:16 | 4 |
| Ya had to be there ... wish I hadn't been ....
Scary (who sings a couple tunes now ...)
|