Conference napalm::heavy_metal

      	Your message is confusing..do you want an opinion on Rush and
    Saga???
    
    	Tell ya what I'm gonna do I throw a Rush in and see what happens.
    
    	Rush has two very talented people, of course Im talking about
    Neil and Geddy.  They are the two that make rush what it is.  They
    could use any old guitarist to play what he does.  Its too bad that
    Rush dosent have an equal amount of talent instead of a 2 out of
    3 ratio.  They need to liven up the git part.  And maybe chill out
    with all the dynamic bass leads.  I play bass and love a strong
    bass but after a while it gets a little boring just hearing bass
    and drums with the ocasional git solo and chord thrown in there.
    
    just an opinion  8^)
    
    Bk
    
    

	Sorry for the confusion...

	Thanx for you opinion on RUSH.

	But RUSH would sound very strange with Yngwie on guitars,
	and Cronos (I think he uses a bass but not sure !) on bass !

	In my fist message, I was talking about a style of music
	not only RUSH. Bands named were examples to let you see
	what I was talking about with Progressive Rock.

	Any other opinion ?


			Didier  "Long Live Rock & Roll"  

    
    re .2  Yes Cronos does play bass.
    
    It definitely would be wierd with Mr Attitude on git.  But I didnt
    mean to replace Alex.  I think he could put out a little more in
    the tunes.  He takes a back seat to Geddy and Neil.  A band that
    would be a good example would be genisis(I know not HM).  They have
    a good mix.  All are very talented but none really outshines the
    other.  Another would be ELP, again another good mixture.
    
    just an opinion
    
    Bk
    

    
    Ok.
    
    Anyway, HM bands don't respect the fact that every member has to
    be as good than the singer or the guitar player. 
    See first Yngwie LP (you hear nothing but the git !)
    
    There are always back seat performers in a bands and it's right.
    I'm not sure that a band with a top singer, git, drummer, and 
    bass player all together would work. They would fight for
    leadership.
    
    Ever heard of Marillion ?   

    re: .-1
    
    >    Ever heard of Marillion ?   

    Maybe, tell us more!
    
    gh

I've heard of them.  I think they're FANTASTIC !

"Kayolee, is it to late to say I'm sorry ?"

Go for it.  They make me think of Rush, and I'm the worlds biggest Rush
fan...

jc

    
    
    	And talking of Marillion, they've just released "B"sides Themselves
    on vinyl.  It was previously only available as a C.D.
    
    Time to slaughter some cucumbers,
    
    		Darron.

    
    MARILLION is the best Progressive Rock Band of the moment. Most
    of stupid people said when they first started that they copied
    Genesis. Rubbish ... they are 1000 and 1000 of times better than
    Genesis ever was.
    
    They released the following LP.
    
    	Script for a Jester's Tear
    	Fugazi
    	Reel to Real   (live)
    	Misplaced Childhood  85
    	Clutching at Straws  87
    	and Bside themselves witch is a compilation of singles previously
    	    unreleased on album.
    
    
    
    Watch out cuz Marillion isn't HM (never said that !!)
    
    Try if you dare Misplaced Childhood on CD (only) and tell me
    your feeling...
                   
    
    RE .7                                        
    
    	It' not Kayolee but Kayleigh
                                                 
    
    You cannot be RUSH biggest fan cuz ...
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    			... I already am.    
    
    
    			Didier   "Forgotten Sons"
    

    Are Marillion still together?  You guys have sparked my interest.
    
    I really liked the early Genesis stuff, but when Peter Gabriel left,
    they got WAY too commercial (spell mellow and unoriginal). 
    
    gh

    
    	Sure they are. The last album is doing well in Europe.
    
    	If you like old Genesis, you should like Marillion. Their
    	sound is more powerful and new than Genesis.
    
    	Singer's name is Fish. He is a scotish giant that used to
    	be tree-worker (found nothing better). He is the band
    	big attraction.
    
    	 
        I'm surprised  you never heard of them. They are pretty well
    	known in Europe.
    
    
    			Try it 
    
    
    			Didier  "Lavender Blue"

    Here is some none-HM related news again ;-)

    Fish (fabulous IMO) lead singer of MARILLION, left the band. He'll
    start a solo carreer and Marillion (the rest of it :-( ) said they will
    continue with another singer. Still don't know him yet.


    Didier "I don't like my fav bands breaking up"  

	Marillion has released new double live album. I have the CD ---
	Good stuff.
	
	Nick

	This is right, and Fish is still singing on this 2xCD. 
	You'll find a set a various songs on Disc 1, while you
	have the complete "Misplaced Childhood" live on Disc 2.

	Good Live post mortem

	Didier

    re: .2,.3
    
    	Give Alex Lifeson (Rush) a break!  He certainly doesn't stand out 
    now that keybards have taken over Rush's once-classical rock sound.  
    You have to admit that Rush would have been totally different if some
    of their mellow work didn't open up into a wailing guitar solo in the
    middle.  Lifeson has added his own dimension to the band, and his own
    style and sound that wouldn't be Rush without it.
    
    Steve

    	I don't know where you Rush "fans" have been.  Marillion was
    opening for Rush on their Power Windows tour.
    
    Steve

                no kidding.    so  why  are  you  telling us rush
                'fans' this?  i've been with rush all along.
                
                - rob peart -
                
                :')
                

    Yeah, what he said !
    
    ;^)

-1, -2 yeah, what they said! 
    
    
    
    CJ

    -1, -2, -3 yeah.....what they said 

    
    RUSH Roooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllllllllllllllllz!

    Anyone know what Rush is up to anyway?
    
    CJ

    re CJ
    
    After speaking with my good friend, Mr. Lifeson, he asked me if
    I would like to record with them during their next studio session.
    I checked my calendar to see if I had any other plans, but fortunately
    I wasn't busy.  I dropped in for a couple of weeks.  Gave the boys
    some new ideas, and we got recording.  Geddy needed some backups
    on keyboards, so I decided to lend him a hand.  We had fun, but
    after three weeks of recording, we decided it was time to hit the
    road and do some small concerts.
    
    We then proceeded to my backyard where we jammed in front of my
    friends for about 2 1/2 hours.  Neil and Alex sounded fine, and
    Gedddy was as good as ever.  We then proceeded to tour the Southeast,
    playing at weddings and graduation parties.
    
    But then the time had come for me to part.  They BEGGED me to go
    on the road with them for their next big tour, but I told them I
    couldn't.. I could hear DEC calling my name.
    
    jab
    

                
                re -1 ...
                
                
                
                shutup!  :')
                

    
    
    	Will someone please hand me my waders .... ?
    
    
    
    				Scary

                RE: JBONNO
                
                    You been  drinkin'  MAD  DOG  20/20  again  ?
                Sheesh. . .delusions of inebriation or what ?
                
                METALord"�

    Marillion are releasing their first single without Fish, and with new
    vocalist Steve Hogarth, on 28th August in Britain and it's called
    "Hooks in You".
    
    I went along to the video shoot and couple of weeks ago at the Brixton
    Academy, London.  They were just shooting the band playing to a backing
    tape of the single, but they did play one live song, which sounded a bit 
    dodgy to me, and a tape of some of the new album which is due out in
    October I think.
    
    With this new singer their style has changed too, they are more
    commerical IMO, and gone are the sometimes depressive, introspective 
    lyrics that only Fish could write and sing.
    
    Marillion are touring towards the end of this year, and so is Fish as a
    solo performer.  I'm going to try and get to see Fish because it should
    be interesting to see what material he does, and how well without
    Marillion behind him!
    
    Em (who wishes it was a Chelsea Monday)

I've heard the a new song which is called "easter". I've found it pretty good. 
The voice is *really* different. This guy has a very high voice, and IMO a 
female tone of voice. The music is excelent as usual. With this new voice I
think they sound a bit more like IQ. 

Didier

    There was also a progressive rock band King Crimson. Their first LP "At
    the court of the Crimson King" is a reference and the track 21-st
    Century Schizoid Man is really heavy. The rest includes the famous
    ballads Epitaph and the title track. And Uriah Heep's first 5 LP's ?
    Regards, Sorin
    PS Queensryche looks to me as progressive heavy metal.

Let's wake this topic up.

Did any of you tried "Seasons End" by Marillion with Steve Hoggart on vocals. I 
think the whole stuff is perfect IMO. The voice is fantastic, and the music is
very powerfull. The melodies are so good. They grow so much in you, it's 
unbelievable.

I saw them live, last September and they were very good. The singer looks 
strange (new wave type) compare to the other guys. 

They are coming back tonite (in the same tour, I know it's strange but ... good) 
and I'm gonna go again...

Any opinions ?

Didier "Can't wait for tonite's concert....:-)"

    
    	Add Masters of Reality to this list ... they seem to fit
    	the criteria in the base note.
    
    	Great stuff!!
    
    							GTI
    

    
    Re: .48
    Didier, do you really think the new Marillion with Steve Hogarth
    is that good? His singing is excellent, and the band sounds as
    good as always, but they've lost the angry sound they had with
    Fish as their lead singer. Even "Easter" does'nt compare to such
    tunes as "Clutching At Straws", or "Script For A Jester's Tear".
    Did Fish do all the writing for them, or have they simply begun
    to change their style? I'm looking forward to the new album to
    see what they come out with. 
    
    All in all, definitely one of my favorite bands!
    Spaceknight
    

    Savatage's last "Gutter Ballet" it's also a progressive one.
    Talk Talk an ex-pop band switched since the last 2 LPs to pure
    progressive music. Talk Talk is not heavy at all but should please to
    many progressive metal fans (warning it's slooow..). Gentle Giant and
    Barclay James Harvest are also very good progressive rock bands.
    I know little about Genesis and Marillion but I enjoy very much Yes and
    Rush.
    
    Sorin

Re: Spaceknight

Yes I do really like this album. I rank it 2nd after "Misplaced...". For the
angry sound, I agree they have lost it, but they've lost it after their 2nd
LP ("Fugazi"), a long time ago. I really prefer the latest album compare
to "Clutching..." for example. "Easter", "Seasons's end" and "the Space" are 
really master pieces IMO (the melody specially). 

>    Did Fish do all the writing for them, or have they simply begun
>    to change their style?

Fish isn't writing anything in the last album, and I think they didn't change
their style, they just getting more perfectionists, melodic instead of angry.

The concert last night was very good. The crowd was wild. They played all 
"Season's end", 3 tunes from "Misplaced...", 4 from "Clutching..." and 
"script ...". Steve sounds good on old songs too. He is getting better and 
better on stage. It was the 5th time I saw them, and last night was ranked 
2nd in the 5. (first being the "Misplaced tour").

I don't know. A lot of people seems very critical to the new album. I do 
*really* like it. May be you have to listen to it a few times, but yesterday 
night Fish wasn't there anymore, and I dont think anybody complained.

Didier 

    
    Pete, you still haven't picked it up??  You should, and soon
    considering they are playing in like 3 weeks. - Kim

    
    Re: .52
      No offense meant, Didier, just curious. Tone came off all wrong!
      Spaceknight
    

Re : -1


No problem !

Didier

    
    	Anyone heard about Van Der Graaf Generator? This band has a
        magnificient singer/songwriter and music is very heavy and
    	full of energy.
    
    	Maybe one of the best progressive rock-bands in the world.
    
    	Hannu H.

I've just heard rumors that Pendragon got their stuff released on CD. Anybody 
can confirm this (in the UK maybe).

From what I've heard they have on CD :

The Jewels
Live 9:15 + 1st mini-lp 
Pow Tow (never heard of this one before)

They just released a new single, new album is due soon.

Didier

PS : I think if you happen to like RUSH, you should give those guys a try. It
worked for me :-)

    
    one of these days ill have to find this album. sounds cool and i love
    rush! :')
    

    I grew up on progressive music!

    Hi,
      Is this place definitely abandonned or this is just an impression?
    I'm also a MARILLION (and Pendragon) fan, so I would like to say to you
    that several album are available (for a long time...) :
    	- Holydays in Eden : The most 'Pop' (the one I like teh least)
    	- Brave : A very good concept album with alternance of anger and
    emotion... (A very good one)
    	- Afraid of sunlight : The last one, but not least : it's really a
    good album and I'm waiting for the next live here in Nice...
    
    Hoping for your opinions...
    
    	RV 

    
    Is Afraid of Sunlight the latest out in the stores? I am also a big
    Marillion fan, but prefer Fish to Hogarth as a singer. Hogarth to me
    has a cloying type of vocals.....
    
    My favorite(s) are Misplaced Childhood and Fugazi!
    
    Mike
    

    I liked the two things they had running on MTV ("Kayleigh" and
    somethin' else I don't remember the title of), but I never really
    got much further into checking them out.
    
    I heard they are "like Genesis" and I'm not a big Genesis fan although
    I like some of their stuff.

    
    Check out Misplaced Childhood or Fugazi by Marillion, excellent albums
    where the former is like a concept/story album, songs roll into the
    next one, etc....for the most part of the album. Clutching at Straws
    was what got me hooked on them. I have Reel to Real someplace on
    cassette (I think I still have it), along with Script for a Jesters
    Tear. Great colorful artwork on MC, Fugazi, actually all the regular
    albums have cool drawings/graphics. B'Sides Themselves is another one,
    and The Thieving Magpie.....6 of one/Half Dozen I think was another
    collection type album, Magpie is live along with RTR. I much prefer
    Fish over Hogarth though, but you may enjoy them better. If you were in
    SHR and I had my own car here (still using rental till car is fixed,
    end of next week I hear now) I'd pop some in the car and give ya a spin
    of them!
    
    Mike
    

    Hi Mike,
            You've got it; Afraid of Sunlight is their latest and it's
    available since July here in France : one word only ; it's BEAUTIFUl
    like the first single of this album... I think if you're really a
    Marillion fan, you MUST buy it, I promise you won't regreat it...
    
    RV

    
    Since I am such a fan of theirs (would have LOVED to seen them live
    with Fish though!) I have been looking at it every time I go to Newbury
    Comics near where I live. Most of their stuff is Import, same as Fishs
    solo efforts. I may bite. How does it compare to Holidays in Eden,
    Brave and Seasons End? If it is more along the lines of Holidays or
    Brave (which I wasn't too impressed with btw....but still like the band
    as a whole!) I may not get it yet, try to get a listen somewhere.
    
    Mike
    

I also prefer the Fish period (Script for a Jester's Tear is excellent) but
from the new period, Season's End has also great moments.

Sorin

    
    I saw Marillion with Fish 8)
    
    
    hands up who's jealous? 8)
    
    Misplaced Childhood are was best.
    
    
    						ian

    pril snarf

    I have _Script for a Jester's Tear_ which is phenomenal, and I recently
    bought _Brave_.  I don't know what it is about _Brave_, but it doesn't
    do much for me yet.  I'll have to listen to it some more.  I'd love to
    pick up some more Marillion, especially the early stuff, but as someone
    else mentioned, everything I find is import!  
    
    I've also heard that Pendragon and IQ are two other 'neo-progressive'
    bands ala Marillion.  Does anybody care to share their opinions on
    these bands, and where can I find their CD's at a reasonable price?
    
    Steve

    
     a friend of mine has every single/album Marillion ever released and
    he raves constantly about Reel to reel...it may be their first album.
    
    Try some of the new Fish albums..not the first one(which bites)but the
    2nd one which is really good.If kinda rock music with Celtic sounds
    running thought it then you'll love it.The single released from it was
    iInternal exile and was superb.Lots of references to Socttish areas I
    used to live and grew up in...including a place called Grangemouth!
    
    
    					ian

    
    Yo Ian!
    
    I have, lemme think here, for Fish solos':
    
    Songs from the Big Chair (I believe that's the title) Cover tunes mostly
    Internal Exile (like most of this album)
    Wilderness of Mirrors, whateveritscalled, with the hill (Excellent IMO)
    Suits  Not that bad, a lot of people criticising it in
    a.r-n-r.marillion newsgroup way back when....
    Uncle Fish and the CryptKeepers, Live from Germany circa 1992-ish, 2 cd
    set.
    There are at least two to three other "Live" ones, all appear to be
    recorded very closely during a tour over there it seems. I didn't get
    the second one due to songs being relatively the same for most of them.
    I do enjoy Fish as a singer, his range, style, etc...are excellent
    IMHO! Fish ROOLZ! ;-)
    
    BTW - There are also a lot of Single tune disc's of his stuff in
    Newbury Comics up in Salem NH for anyone interested in checking him
    out, I STILL HIGHLY RECOMMEND Misplaced Childhood! out-f*&&ing standing
    Marillion! Excellent Iam Mosely(sp) on Drums and Steve Rothary on
    guitar! I have one of their videos too, Live from Loreley. Decent show
    for them anyways, but Fish was really showing a paunch at that one!
    
    Mike - Metal/mENTAL/Marillion Fan!
    
    
    

    
    	"Songs from the Big Chair" is a Tears for Fears album.
    

    
    Then it is Songs from the Mirror. I knew I was thinking of the same
    thing when I wrote that reply.....and that was a decent album by TfF
    too! Best imo!
    
    Mike
    

    
    cool....I have met Fish(kinda)once.My friends and I were at a concert
    held by a local radio station with a bunch of local bands(Nazareth
    being one of them)and Fish was strolling about the audience.My friend
    (Karen,it was Dave)marched up to him,thrust out his hand and told him
    he had every album he's ever been on.Fish looked very nervous,shook
    his hand and buggered off rapidly.
    
    btw...his wife is the lady in the  "Lady Nina" video.
    
    also,wasn't "songs from the big chair" a Tears for Fears album title?
    
    							ian
    
    
    

    	What I can say to you about the last album (Afraid of sunlight) is that
    it's the closest one to "Seasons end"...
    However, you're all right when you mention the Fish period was the
    best. My favorite songs are "Forgotten Sons" from <Sript for a jester's
    tear>, "Assassing" from <Fugazzi>, and definitely <MISPLACED
    CHILDWOOD>...
    	RV

    
    I've listened to Afraid of Sunlight a few times now, and it does grow
    on you.  At first I thought it was rather weak, and most of the songs
    are fairly low-key, but in it's own way it is good, and 'Beautiful' is
    a lovely song.
    
    I think since Steve Hogarth took over, the band has changed a lot, and 
    lost a lot of the 'edge' it had even in Season's End.  
    
    At first I didn't like Brave, but having listened to that a quite a 
    few times, I do like it.  When I saw them live in 1994 (I think), they 
    played the whole album, and it didn't really work.  The crowd wanted
    to hear older Marillion stuff, and when they did play some at the end
    everyone came alive!
    
    AofS is worth checking out, but I don't like it as much as Season's End
    and Holidays in Eden.
    
    Emma

    
    
    Assinssing is a great song.
    
    I only ever heard 2 Steve Hogarth songs,one was "uninvited guest" which
    was good and other one that sounded more like Peter Gabriel than Peter
    Gabiel.Both were no where near as good as old Marillion.
    
    
    						ian

    Here is the place for all the progressive band, so I would like to
    speak of one group particulary : DREAM THEATER. I think it's the 1st
    band "hard rock progressive" that exists. The sound it's great, the
    guys play very well... I own all of their albums and I definitely love
    this band.
    	I hope someone else here have heard of this band...
    
    	RV

    -1
    
    RV -- Check out note 542.* sometime...

    
    	And once you get to note 542 you might realize how many of their
    	albums you DON'T have.
    
    	8^)
    

    ...I wouldn't say DT was the first prog-metal band...
    
    I love DT, but they ain't the first...
    :-)

>    ...I wouldn't say DT was the first prog-metal band...
    
    An AWFUL lot of people would tell you that Kansas was the first
    prog-metal band.
    
    Although I'm way short of convinced, a lot of Kansas fans view Kansas
    as being significantly "metal".

    This discussion has come up a number of times on the "People of the
    South Wind" list (Kansas' Internet interest list).
    
    I DEFINITELY see it in some songs... and actually... given that...
    maybe it's true because, of course, not EVERY tune that DT does is
    heavy metal.
    
    	db

    Well, not every tune Kansas does is metal either...
    
    I'd vote for Rush, but I don't consider Rush as metal...although they
    can get pretty metallic sometimes, it's, umm, well, ahh, ??
    
    I dunno 

Re. RV

Queensr�che and Fates Warning (Perfect Symmetry) are also progressive metal.
Do you know them ?

Kansas, Rush, Yes, Uriah Heep, to name few, are among the ancestors of 
progressive metal.

Sorin

    Hi Sorin,
    
    Excuse me all to say that DT is the 1st progressive metal band but when
    I wrote this note I was under the charm of the new song released by DT
    (A Change of Seasons)...
    
    Yes, I know Queensr�che & I adore it. I don't know Fates Warning, so
    how good is it? Which album I can buy in order to not be deceived.
    Kansas : I dont know too, except that DT recorded a song from this band
    live on their last mini-album (A change of Seasons). 
    
    Of course, I know Rush and I like it...
    
    	RV
    

    
    re: -1 
    
    For Fates Warning, I would suggest "No Exit" which has 6 tracks, the
    last of which is a 7 or 8 parter and about 22 minutes long! Excellent
    tune too! The whole album is quite good IMHO. Their earlier stuff
    reminds me of very early QR, ie their EP with "The lady wore Black" and
    the album "The Warning". QR has evolved into a more mature band, that's
    for sure, better recording helps too! When I last saw QR this summer I
    thought that the show was EXCELLENT! My friend isn't a real big QR fan,
    but he remarked on a couple things; 1) Geoff Tate was a bit
    over-melodramatic (to which I said: "No Way!" He played the show
    excellent as usual), 2) He was impressed with them overall, and thought
    the drummer was excellent, to which I concur, he is an excellent
    drummer, especially with the new kit he is playing (I liked his
    double-base Tama though better!). Great show though, Geoff really was
    into it IMO. Will probably go see them again as that was the 2nd time I
    have seen them and I thought this was better than Building Empires Tour
    where they played Operation:Mindcrime in its entirety (they did most of
    it this last show though!).
    
    Mike
    

    Does the sound seem a bit lik DT (long spacial key/guitar/drum/bass
    solos)? (I think about the "No exit" album from Fates Warning)
    
    Thank you
    	RV
    

I haven't heard "No Exit" but only "Perfect Symmetry" which should please a 
DT fan. Very good on headphones where you can better appreciate the sound 
quality and the instrumentals. 
Heavy you ever heard Crimson Glory's "Transcendence" ?

Sorin

    Ok, I'm ging to buy one of those 2 albums this week-end... I'll send
    you my feeling.
    
    	Thank you
    RV

    
    I ordered Inside Out or something to that effect and it is a lot like
    Parallels IMO, but I like Parallels better than this one! I think they
    should stick to the older style of their music, but have the singer get
    off the high end somewhat! Sorin, did you get Theatre of Tragedy yet? I
    haven't.....waiting to see if someone else does and give a review!
    
    Mike
    

    Does anyone here know something about a band called ELOY. I think it's
    a progressive one, not the greatest one but...
    
    	I heard one album (I don't remember the title but some tracks are :
    Invasion of a megaforce, Hero,...) and it seems very "spacial" to me.
    Any judgement???
    RV

Re. RV

Eloy is a German band and I've heard few years ago a CD from them. Not
bad at all but not very special either (IMHO). Interesting.

Re. Mike

I don't think I'll grab Theatre of Tragedy very soon as I slowed down my
CD buying. I have to find time to listen what I already have. I watch only
for my very favourite bands (Queensr�che, Uriah Heep, Slayer, Sepultura
and few more) or something really exceptional.

Sorin  

    Hi Sorin,
    
    That's exavtly what I think about this band...
    
    RV