Conference napalm::heavy_metal

    	I think keys have a place in HM but it should be used as effects,
    and intro's, things like that.  Ozzy and Dio use 'em but it's way
    in the background.  The Strings and the Skins are in the spotlight.
    Granted Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, and the like influenced music as
    we know it now (this statement should not be taken as the cookster
    and myself in agreement) but I can't see 'ol JS Bach bangin' the
    'ol noggin'.
    
    					Mr Scary II

    A lotta bands (all genres) use keys in the background to fill in the
    space.  Like you said, Ozzy pops to mind, Judas Priest has used them
    too.  In HM, they aren't usually spotlighted or even prominent as they
    frequently are in many other flavors of music (exception: Deep Purple).
    
    In my mind, keyboards are just another tool for the musician, and can
    be used wherever a creative individual wants them.  I think it would
    be limiting to say that any instrument has absolutely no place in
    HM.  Admittedly, some fit better than others.  ...Yeah, that's the
    electric accordian there crankin' through a Marshall...
    
    GH

    FYI - the intro to "And The Cradle Will Rock" by VanHalen was done
    with a Fender Rhodes piano and megaMarshalls.  The ivorys do have
    their place.
    
    
    					Mr Scary II

    
    
             IM for Keyboards RE:106.1....
    
                If it wasn't for the boards the great tunes probelly
    
          wouldn't  be the same.
                    I love whitesnake
                           ozzy..New Sabbath...
                              Axe.....there are so many
    
                                          Keep it up Mr. Berdat
    
               P.S  does anyone like Phantom Guitars ?
    
    
                                             JIM..TAMA
    

    
    Mr Jerrywhite obviously isn't a true believer of HM or he would
    appreciate the power of DEEP PURPLE.
    
    Because if he followed DEEP PURPLE, he would not be asking such
    a B....y stupid question.  Of course keyboards have a place in HM,
    it's people like you Mr Jerrywhite who give HM a bad name, 'cus
    you've got no class.
    
    	       	\ Sweet Child in Time /

    Yo \Sweet Child In Time/,
    	Check out .3 if you will.  Keys do have their place in HM. 
    Deep Purple was a big influence, but keep it in perspective, Ritchie
    Blackmore drove DP, not the keys.  Hey, I play (.5 ass) keyboards
    too, and they fit, but I keep my fiddle around my neck while I play
    'em.  Thanx for your insight into myself and HM, I will cherrish
    your thoughts until about 8:15, at which time I flush it along with
    some other body waste.
    
    
    						Mr Scary II

    Whoa!! 2 months later, and I finally find this topic..
    
    Good come back, Mr. Scary....;')
    
    Don't be so judging "Sweet Chyld in Tyme..." |'(!!
    
    As for Keys??? I played piano for about 4 years. Being the greatest
    guitar lover today, keyboards still have a place in my heart. For
    me piano was hard [this was a couple of years ago, haven't really
    tried it since..maybe I should??], and to hear someone play a perfect
    Motzart or Beethoven was breathtaking. A definite gift. As far as
    keyboards in HM. Depends on what band. In some songs it sounds really
    good. King Diamond uses keys every now and again, and I'm sure there
    are well-knowns out there who use them and you don't even know it!!!
    
    So, yeah, I think keyboards belong in heavy metal. As well as any
    other instrument for that matter. If it sounds good, use it. Digg???
    
    'nuff said ere'
    
    
    -renee>

    Y'know, this (and other) topics has made me listen more carefully
    to things lately.  I play guitar and have trained myself to listen
    to the guitar parts.  In the past, I've pretty much ignored the
    drums, bass, and keys.
    
    Lately I've been listening for these things and have found a lot
    of interesting things.  Even Metallica uses keys on occasion.  I
    certainly feel they have a good place in our music.
    
    gh

    
    
                       You know it!!!!
    
                  I have to disagree that blackmore is THE driving 
               force behind DP.  That ancient B3 more than does it's
               share of wailing and carrying DP's metal tunes.
    
                  I don't even know if you can call "Rising Force"
               heavy metal.  I think they are too refined.  But for
               keyboard negators listen to yngwie's buddy crank, 
        
                         That guy will crunch circles around most
               HV guitarists...
    
    
                  Besides,  You can do so much with Keys nowadays.
    
               I've heard my Keyman actually mimick the sound Cars
               being crushed by large boulders!!!!!!!!!!!1
    
    
                                   How heavy is Heavy-Metal anyway??
    
                
    
                                                  Chris D.
               
                                                            

    
    Re. 11
    You said it!! I really miss the sound of a B3 crankin with Leslie
    speakers screamin' and waivering. No synth I have heard can come
    close to that sound. 
                          mike (remembering fondly DP and Uriah Heep)
    
    

>    You said it!! I really miss the sound of a B3 crankin with Leslie
>    speakers screamin' and waivering. No synth I have heard can come
>    close to that sound. 
    
Really! I had a Roland Juno 106. It was great for all sorts of wimpy
sounds (and had a great string section sound), but it had no *balls*
to it, ya know? Unfortunately, the B3's are so heavy that only the
really successful bands (DP, Santana, a couple others) still use 'em. 

Great example - the opening of "Perfect Strangers" and of course
                the opening of "Lazy" from 'Made in Japan'

Where are all the keyboard players nowadays that love this sound?
Why do they all want to sound like Steve Winwood or Madonna's band?

cat

    I saw Iron Butterfly a little over three years ago in Las Vegas.
    They had a B3, it smoked (and had to be repaired) twice during the
    show.  If I remember right, they finished without it.
    
    gh

    Personally, I don't think any synth (other than a sampler ...) can
    truly duplicate the B3/Leslie sound just like no amount of of solid
    state goodies can duplicate a wall of Marshalls.  Someone earlier
    mentioned Uriah Heep, now there was a good mix of guitar and keys
    without overkill on either part.  If they were around today they'd
    probably sound a lot like Europe ... and we would all need dramamine.
    
    
    				Mr Scary II 

    *****************     N O     **********************
    

    I recently read a quote in one of the guitar mags by former Loverboy
    guitarist Paul Dean about his feeling towards keyboards ... it read
    *something* like" ... keyboards are like condoms .... use them only
    when you have to ...."  Makes sense to me !
    
    
    				Scary
                               
    (guess that means I practice unsafe Rock & Roll ... and always will)

    I think it depends on what sound you like. Thing is, an organ can
    sound great in some instances, but at the same time I can't
    picture a regular piano in metal! Queensryche definitely uses
    keyboards well, as well as sound effects I always thought belonged
    to the d*i*s*c*o* (sorry!!) world. Being that I play piano, I'd
    have to say yeah, I like keyboards in Heavy Metal! So sue me!!
    
    

    	A regular piano is OK for HM ballads like Home Sweet Home by
    Motley Spew, Aerosmith uses one on their ballads also. Any one who
    doubts the ***king power of keys in HM has to listen to Mr. Jon Lord
    as mentioned earlier Perfect St. Rangers intro, for ex. The intro
    to Lazy is even better on Mach Head. IMO the leading force behind
    DP was an equal combo of Gillan, Lord, Blackmore. They were OK as
    soloists but BLOODY INCREDIBLE together.
    
	If you doubt keys should be allowed in HM, then what do you think
    of bands that uses orchestras? 

    				CB

    For an example of keys in a metal type format, check out Dream Theatre. 
    They make extensive use of synth equipment and it's not way back in the
    mix or just on ballads.  
    
    Overall it sounds good, but at times I think it's a bit too much (but I
    *am* of course, a guitar player...).
    
    gh

    
    I think keyboards in metal can sound great, but not all the time.  I
    think one of the best songs that has keyboards in it is Savatage's
    Prelude to Madness.  They wouldn't have been able to achieve anything
    as good with out em'.  Kim

    
    
    	Keys belong in HM.....look at what it did for parts of
    Operation:Mindcrime..... kind of gives it an errie effect.  Same
    for some of DIOs' stuff...and the intro to MR CROWLEY is excellent.
    
    BK
    

    NO! Use a REAL piano.......
    
            Frizkid
    

    
    Dream Theater wouldn't be the same without the keyboards!
    

    
    keyboards are a big must.  DT, king diamond, fates warning, dio...  all
    way cool keyboards
    

    Another excuse to mutter on about ~U~F~O~. Mutter, mutter, mutter.
    
    barry.

>    Another excuse to mutter on about ~U~F~O~. Mutter, mutter, mutter.
 

	Speaking of UFO, hey Barry and others, did you know 

	That Michael Schenker has his own fan club, which
	he is president of!!!!!!!!!1    Talk to Tristan or
	see note 860 for more details!!!


							-Seth

    
    
    
    Just say 'no' to keyboards!

     Just Play 'notes' to Key_Boards!

    
    
    	Little Angels have cool keyboards aswell, you forgot then,
    
    		Lu

    
    
    the Little .......who???
    
      
    
    
        ;^) x 100
    
                                                 staynz

    I think there is a place for keys in HM, but the applications are
    limited.  In some bands, like Vessell, it ruined the edge.

    I don't think the *keys* ruined the edge in Vessell, I think it
    was two things:
    
    1) The sound the dood got (really wimpy)
    2) the mix (keys WAY too loud, guitars WAY too soft!)
    
    
    I think with both things tweeked, Vessell would have rocked with the
    best of them

    
    
    RE:mike
    
    I'll agree with that... personally, I don't dig keys in a band.. pretty
    much depends on the style of music.. 
    
    (wow, I've been agreeing with Mike alot lately...) ;')

    Church organ and bass synthesiser work very fine with metal rock.
    
    Sorin

    Re: Sorin
    
    Yeah like a gigantic pipe organ!

        Got a question for anyone who can help me, those of us who play
    keys, what kind of bass pattern do you use? I'm a play-by-ear type,
    but my left hand turns into a vamp, turning anything I'm playing 
    into a kind of jazz-stomp. Please for to be helping me! Most confused
    I am! In need of wound-patch I! Thanks in advance.
    
                                     Conqueror of The Planet of the Leather
                                      Goddesses...
                                        
                                         Spaceknight