Conference napalm::guitar

    I've never heard of a Ramirez Conceptio.  I'd guess if the maestro was
    willing to sign it, it must have been an upper-end instrument. 
    
    Ramirez 1As from the seventies seem to go for $4000 to $5000 (with 
    Brazilian rosewood)-- don't know if this guitar is comparable.
    
    Heck, I'll give him two D2-Rs for it!
    
    Bozo is most notably a maker of 12 strings.  Don't know much else
    about him.  I think Leo Kottke used to play a 12 string built by him.
    
    Jim

    Ramirez currently has 3 lines of guitars: the conservatory, estudio, 
    and prefessional concert series.  
     
    Current Ramirez list prices range from $1,199 for the R1
    (mahogany sides and back, solid cedar top, conservatory line) to 
    $18,999 for the Centenario (the top of the line 1a class profession
    concert guitar in Brazilian rosewood).  More "run of the mill" 1As
    list at a little over $6K.  Don't know what a typical discount is.
    
    If this is an upper-end instrument, your friend may want to contact
    a major dealer to sell it.  Get an issue of Acoustic Guitar magazine
    and look for specialty shops like the Guitar Salon or HandPicked
    Guitars (www.handpickedguitars.com, I think), and/or the big vintage 
    and acoustic dealers (e.g., Elderly Instruments, Mandolin Bros.)
    
    Jim

	This is what someone from Guitar Salon wrote:
    
Dear Greg,
			As for the 1st guitar, I would like some
clarification regarding the signature of Segovia.  Do you mean that it
has a gold label which says: "Segovia Model" and the signature of
Ramirez?  That is the normal status of the 1a Ramirez guitar from this
period.  Also, are you sure it's spruce top and not cedar?  Please let
me know and I'll try to give you more info.

==============================================================================
		Unfortunately... this does not totally match the description
	given to me.  I was told Concepcio with Segovia's signature.  There-
	fore... there is no telling what it is or what its worth.  I think I'll
 	take a chance, make the trade for the D2R, and learn the Malanguena.
	( I have 2 boxes of Classical music at home )

    The question of Spruce vs Cedar arises since most Ramirez guitars of
    this vintage have cedar tops, not spruce.  Probably less than 1 out of
    10 will be spruce.  What is interesting, though, is that it may be
    even less likely that anything but a professional series Ramirez would
    have a spruce top-- all of the current Conservatory/Estudio instruments
    have cedar tops.
    
    Jim

    	Hi Jim,
    			I contacted Guitar Emporium, and got some 
    	confirming info / opinions.  What I was told was that the
    	Ramirez Concepcion is a mid-range line slightly under the 1a.
    	Best case value would be around 3k.  Worst case value would
    	be nothing, based upon the wisdom of Andres Segovia  who said
    	that a guitar has a useful lifetime, - once its over, it should 
    	be just thrown away.  So, its really based upon condition, with
    	gain for material, i.e., Brazillian rosewood preferred over 
    	Indian, and spruce being the preferred soundboard over cedar.
    	Value appreciates on material, depreciates for bad condition,
    	i.e., its dinged up, warped, cracked, etc.  So, to offer it
    	for a D2R is not a bad idea, ( particularly if the D2R is less 
    	than a year old and in new condition; and the Concepcion is
    	moderately worn/dinged ).  And, so far, most of your opinions 
    	and advice on the matter were for the most part right on,
    	and quite appreciated.  
    						Thankyou.
    								Greg
    	
    							

    re: Ramirez
    
    If it has solid sides and back (if its just under the 1a, it should be),
    then you'd likely be getting the (much) better end of the deal.  The 
    downside is that if you just want to sell the guitar, the market for 
    quality classical guitars is much smaller than the dreadnaught market 
    (it may be worth more, but only if you can find a buyer).
    
    As far as guitars having a useful lifetime...  For classical guitars,
    this is somewhat true-- particularly (at least according to some
    folks) with cedar tops.  With reasonable care (no extremes of
    temperature or humidity) we are talking about 20-30 years of heavy use
    (4-6 hours per day), though.
    
    Good luck!
    Jim

    
    	gee.. I wonder if he'd take the Hohner...

5 hours per day for 20-30 years would be enough playing time for any 
guitar I intend to own.  What that?  50,000 hours.

Jim

    
    	Did you hear about the guitarist who got taken to the cleaners?
    
    	He was De-martin-ized.

    That would surely be something to dread, not?
    

    > That would surely be something to dread, not?
    
    Perhaps.  It could also be a big "no OOO, Oh no!"

    
    	I'd like to take credit for the De-martinized joke.
    	I have a very dry humor.

    but its clean.

    	Yes.  Please beware of bad puns like Jim says.

    
    	Well.... the Bozo and Ramirez were exellent sounding, 
    	but went through too many repairs.   The Ramirez had 
    	cracked varnish, two repaired cracks on the back, an 
    	artfully spliced piece of brazillian rosewood.  The
    	Bozo had a couple cracks repaired.  Both needed work.
    	They were fun to play, - but I didn't take them home.
    	Particularly since, an 0016C can usually be had for 
    	somewhere around 5 bills.