Conference napalm::guitar

re: .0
    
>    I have a Fender 112 deluxe amp. It has a lousy spring reverb. I also
>    have a brilliant Microverb III.
    
Hey, that lousy spring reverb sound is a classic! :-)  Seriously, it
really is part of the classic Fender guitar amp sound.

>    Now the spring reverb has phono plugs connecting it to the amp's
>    innards. My question is could I substitute my Microverb III in ts
>    place? It would thus be available via the amp's reverb footswitch.
>    
>    Concerns are mainly input/output impedance and voltage levels. Will I
>    blow up the Microverb or, worse, the amp?
    
I'd be *very* surprised if it worked.  I'm pretty sure I've read that
the spring reverb tanks produce *very* small signals, nowhere near the
line-level signals the Microverb expects and sends.

I doubt if it would blow anything up, it probably just wouldn't work.

-Hal

    Actually, something Hal said jogged my memory.  Dave Hicks (from GP amp
    fame) marketed a Fender Mender II that turned the reverb channel of a
    standard Fender tube amp into an effects loop.  Not sure what was
    involved, but the fact that this type of device exists suggests that
    some sort of signal level conversion may be necessary.  I'll see if I
    can dig up more info on it.
    
    Is the 112 Deluxe an all tube amp, or solid state?
    
    /rick
    

    I'd be very afraid of blowing up the Microverb inputs, myself.  I
    recommend don't try it until you're somehow sure it won't cause smoke.

    I thought the Mender cascaded the clean channel into
the efx channel and providing channel switching and a
high-gain channel ala boogie. 


     As for the original question, it sounds like a 
good question for Niel Orsi. 

     Mark

    
    The DeLuxe 112 is a solid state 65watt amp (current model) although there is
    now a 112+ which is uprated to 80watts. The Stage 112 is 110 watts I
    think.
    
    Sorry, I cannot rate the spring reverb in this at all. I also don't
    think its the classic Fender spring reverb you are referring to as a
    friend of mine has a Carlsboro amp which has the same unit it.
    
    I also though the spring reverb in my old Fender Champ 12 (valve) was
    lousy as well.
    
    Maybe I'm just spoilt with the Microverb.
    
    Richard
    
    PS: Can you buy replacement spring reverbs?

re: .5
    
>    PS: Can you buy replacement spring reverbs?

Sure.  Most if not all of the spring reverb tanks around nowadays are
made by Accutronics (or is it Accusonics, I forget).  I don't remember
off the top of my head where you can buy them, but someone else in here
probably does.

That said, unless you replace your unit with a longer one or one with
more springs I don't know whether or not it will improve the sound.

-Hal

    re .4
    
    Note I said "Mender II".  The original Mender was indeed a high-gain
    mod, the Mender II was an efx loop.
    

    I'm fairly certain that the spring reverb in the Deluxe 112 is the
    small (about 8" long) accutronics unit.  The big ones sound *much*
    better.
    
    Anyway, as other noters have stated, the signal levels are totally
    different than what your microverb expects.  A spring reverb works
    by running a signal through a coil to create a changing magnetic
    field.  This changing field is used to induce motion on the springs.
    A corresponding coil and magnet are used to convert the motion back
    to electricity.   As a result of this procedure, the out-going 
    singal is *MUCH* weaker than the in-coming signal.
    
    Is it worth replacing your reverb tank with a better one?  Go to
    a music store and try a Twin, Vibroverb, etc.  I love the sound of
    a good spring reverb, but it's not for everyone...
    
    Jim

gee the Marshall JTM amps all have a small
one, and I wonder if it's the same one you 
indicated..

I thought the spring verb in the JTM sounds pretty
nice...  Not a digi, sure, but not a bad sounding unit...

    The reverb in my nephews JTM30 is small. It sounds okay, but it 
    doesn't have the depth of a good Fender reverb. If you crank the
    JTM reverb to 10 it's comparable to my Deluxe on 4.
    
    Mark

    seems to me that if you like the digital verb, 
    that's just a differnt animal than the springs
    I've heard.  I wouldn't bother trying to get
    an in-combo verb that you like, unless it is
    also digital, like the Trace Acoustic ones. 
    
    Dave 
    

I know for a fact the JTM30 and JTM60
are both the same units.. swapped one out
once...

I guess for my preference, this one is
o.k.  I don't throw much reverb in, usually on
and 3 it's plenty for me..

All in what you're going for I suppose..

but I've also had good luck with the DSP128+
with some of those reverb settings.. especially
some of the Ultimate Reverb patches.. 

I like having a mix of both Digi and spring...

    HYPOTHETICALLY speaking:
    
    If i had a fender reverb unit out of a twin or the like, could it be
    made to work with a silverface bassman?
    
    -kev

    >>If i had a fender reverb unit out of a twin or the like, could it be
    >> made to work with a silverface bassman?
           
    With a *lot* of work and some serious mods bassman.  I assume you
    mean that you have a reverb tank.  You'd need to add another pre-amp
    tube to create a pre-amp stage to boost the return from the reverb 
    tank, and the other required electronics.  I'm guessing the bassman
    would not need power supply modifications, but I could be wrong...
    
    Definitely not for someone who isn't seriously into tube amps.
    
    I'd add an external reverb first.
    
    Jim
    

re: .14

>    I'd add an external reverb first.
    
Old Fender external reverbs are around that have the right sound.
They'd gotten ridiculously expensive a few years ago when they became
trendy.  I don't know what they're going for nowadays.

-Hal

    Thanks Jim. That's all I wanted to know.  
    Hal, re the Fender reissue rev tanks....they start at about $650 can.
    
    WAY TO MUCH!!
    
    thanks for input guys,
    
    -kev

re: .16

>    Hal, re the Fender reissue rev tanks....they start at about $650 can.
    
Ouch!  If the exchange rate is anywhere near where I think it is, that's
even worse than it used to be! :-(

>    WAY TO MUCH!!
    
No kidding (spelling error aside)!

I am curious about one thing, though.  You said "Fender reissue rev tanks".
What I was referring to was old standalone reverb units.  Is Fender now
making new "reissues" of these old units?

-Hal

    >>Is Fender now
    >>making new "reissues" of these old units?
    
    Yes.

    Fender and Kendricks both have reissue standalone reverbs.
    They supposedly carry the same circuits as the originals but are using
    different tubes.  I have a '64 blackface reverb unit which was appraised 
    at $650 US last year, but I'd have a hard time selling it for that
    because the reissues are going for about $450 US new.
    
    I still haven't decided if it's worth selling at the re-issue price.
    
    	Rick

    I've seen used re-issue reverb units selling in the $200-$300 range;
    it starts to get tempting at that price.  Check Daddy's inventory,
    they often have one kicking around.
    
    Oh, and Rick, I wouldn't worry about the re-issue's lower price; there
    are always people around willing to pay the premium for the "real
    thing"
    

    Years ago, a friend of mine had a Tapco spring reverb unit that was
    housed in a 3-space rack box. He bought it for about $100 and it
    sounded great. I believe it was all solid state. I wouldn't mind
    finding one of these babies for my guitar rack. 
    
    Mark