Conference napalm::guitar

    I thought I had posted something about my experiences with the Pacifica
    112 in here, but in case I hadn't...
    
    I would definitely recommend one of these as an excellent value in a
    starter guitar.  The ones I've seen have amazingly good wood quality
    and finish work, tight neck pockets, clean even neck profile, and
    well-dresses frets.  The quality was better than many guitars I see
    at 2 or 3 times the price.  It also seems to be a very playable
    instrument; good solid Strat tones in the single coil positions and
    a very rockin humbucker in the bridge.  My *only* complaint about the
    Pacifica is that it seemed particularly sensitive to picking up noise;
    not surprising at that price.  A little homebrew shielding work would
    probably do wonders.
    
    Of course, the other downside is these don't say "Fender" on the
    headstock, which may or may not be a factor.
    
    In any event, these are a great value imo.
    
    /rick
    

I think either one would suit well as a Student
guitar,,  Looks like you're pricing is about right,
(around 200) for the investment...  

I'm not sure about resale value, so before you go
too far down this road, maybe you'd want to call around,
(Daddy's Junky Music, E.U. Wurlitzer,,) and get a feel
for Resale value on both,,  which one holds it's value
if you're son decides not to pursue the instrument...

You'll probably be splittin hairs at around $125.00
in excellent condition..

I've recommended a few squires, for friends kids who 
want to learn, and they've done quite well for those
kids...  I think one of your comments about looks-appeal
says a lot too,,  beginners are hard to read,,, 
sometimes this does come into play...

I don' know what the situation is, but maybe set the 
limit of how much you'll spend, and let him decide
which one...  granted everyone want's a USA standard
Strat, but who's gonna blow that much on a beginner..
The Squire puts itself as an excellent alternative..
And they do play fairly well once the action and intonation
is set..


but, I don't think there will be a huge difference in
the quality at this price range..  You're getting a decent
starters guitar eiher way..

Not much experience at all with Yamaha Solid Bodies...
so I can't help there..

good luck...
/ray

My favorite cheap guitar is the mexican built Fender Telecaster 
(which is not a Squire - it has a regular size Fender logo on 
the headstock).  Guitar Center loaned me one for a couple
of weeks and it was great.  They sell them new for $200-$250.

Paul

    Another vote for the Fender. Try a Stratocaster for sure.
    
    -kev

    My vote goes for the Yamaha. I think it is a better overall-quality
    instrument. The QC may not be as stringent, so there might be a few
    lemons out there. As with any guitar some sing, some don't. 
    
    I'd be willing to bet a 'singing Pacifica' sounds/feels better than
    a 'singing Squire-Strat'. I don't know about the resale value debate.
    I for one refuse to sell my first guitar for sentimental reasons.
    Besides, a better sounding/playing instrument might help motivate
    the boy. He might also be satisfied longer, delaying the need to
    'upgrade'.
    
    Just my $.02
    
    Larry

    
    I recently had some repairs done on my Yamaha.  I've got an older
    RGX-series model which plays real nice and looks o.k.  A few words
    about my dealings with Yamaha FWIW...
    
    Will I ever buy another Yamaha again?  Probably not.  Fine tuning
    screws were like $25, way-metric of course.  A bridge for this model
    was like $95.  Mind you, all I wanted fixed was ONE stripped fine
    tuning screw (which turned out to be the thread inside, not the 
    screw itself).  At any rate, I finally get my guit back today, after
    3 weeks in the shop!!!  The whole time I keep on getting, "Well the
    screws finally came in and Yamaha sent the wrong size."  -OR-  "Well
    the screws came in and they don't fit."  Meanwhile, the days (weeks!)
    are flying and I NEED this guitar...I ask if they have ever heard of
    Next-Day-Air?!?
    
    I should have tapped a new screw myself....had I known that these
    parts for a fairly popular mid-80's Yamy were so hard to come by (even
    by this authorized dealer), as well as the poor shipping deal and
    misinformation, I would have. 
     
    At any rate, I told the repair shop to tap ANY screw they could find...
    and they did in less than an hour.  Problem solved with absolutely NO 
    help from Yamaha.  
    
    Now I have never tried this Yamaha which was mentioned in the base, nor
    do I know how it might hold up in the (hopefully VERY infrequent)
    repair/parts scenario.  I have tried out many a strat, and I very much
    dig the Strat + and the Ultra Strat +'s.  Of course, these models are 
    more expensive than the lower-line Strats and I really don't know what
    they're asking for one of those new Yamaha's for comparison.  All I
    know is the newer Strats I've tried are real slick in craftsmanship,
    looks, and sound; I'd go with a Fender.
    
    Kev --
                                          
    

    
    RE: my previous reply
    
    I should have also mentioned that my MAJOR gripe was with the music
    store and their sub-contracted repair guy who was quick to disassemble,
    and slow to get the job done.  However, it was the initial lack of
    availability/high cost/poor ship by Yamaha that turned me off.
    
    Kev --
    

    The Pacifica seems to use standard Strat style parts; the bridge,
    tuners, even the pickguard all looked like they would take any of the
    industry standard replacements.  I actually looked seriously at one
    of the cheap Pacificas, with an eye toward upgrading these components.
    Although it wasn't quite clear that I would've even wanted to upgrade;
    it was all surprisingly good quality.
    
    Btw, $189 sounds like a used price on one of these.  They list for
    $320 and usually sell in the mid-to-low 2's new.   If it is $189 new
    it's a good deal.
    

    As the original basenoter to this string, I wanted to thank everybody
    for their feedback.
    
    My son decided to go with the new Pacifica "Strat style" #112. The
    price new was $199 new at EU Wurlitzer in Nashua. He actually ended up
    paying $189 as a package price where he also got a gig-bag case and a 
    used Peavy Audition amp. The total package came to $300, which we were
    both happy with.
    
    We checked Wurlitzer, Cheshire, Tewksbury Music, and Daddy's
    (Shrewsbury). EUW definately had the best Yamaha prices. plus I like
    EUW's lenient 30 day return policy. We had originally bought a red
    Squire-Bullet II Strat for $199 but were not happy about learning after
    the fact about the plywood body.........so we returned the Squire and 
    bought the Yamaha. We later found out (according to several of the stores 
    that the Squires, as well as low end Ibanez and Peavy's all use plywood 
    bodies. Yamaha was the only guitar in the price range that was solid wood 
    and had nice fit and finish details.
    
    I'm rather surprised to see the note regarding service problems.....the
    new Yamaha's have a lifetime warranty. First year and service is done
    by EUW, after one year you have to ship to Yamaha (Calif).
    
    Now my wife wants to buy herself a Yamaha Pacifica 120 (the natural
    satin wood Tele style body). That would have been my choice too but I
    guess it isn't "flashy" enough to suit a 14 year old's aesthetics.
    
    BTW, my son was very tempted to by the Strat standard (no Squire on 
    headstock) made in Mexico......which was $299 new. But since it was his
    own money, he couldn't justify the additional $100 just to own a
    Fender. I thinkl he made the right choice:-)
    
    Thx again,
    
    Jonathan 

    
    
    Daddys in Shrewsbury are idiots!
    
    
    						ian

    I *thought* Yamaha had a Pacifica for around 2 bills.
    
    I understand they have some decent bass guitars for around $200 also.

    
    RE: .10
    
    Indeed.
    
    

    
      The Yamaha Pacifica line did have a high-end model that ran about
    $1,800 list. It had a flame maple arched top (ala PRS) and fancy 
    inlays. The ads about five years had Rik Emmett (ex-Triumph)
    endorsing that particular guitar.
      On the low-end I've seen Pacifica's at store prices of $299. 
    So there's quite a broad range of quality and prices. 

    One thing about the Pacificas; there's surprisingly little
    difference between the $2xx model and it's higher priced brothers.
    They add fancier hardware, woods and colors for the money, but pull
    one off the rack and it doesn't play a whole lot different.
    I personally can't see much justification for going with one
    of the higher priced models.
    

    
    if it were up to me...I'd go for the Fender but this is purely on
    resale.I don't think Yamahas hold their price too well.
    
    
    
    ....but then again,everything's a dog compared to a Les Paul! 8)
    
    
    							ian

    
    	RE: Pacifica
    
    	Sounds like pool sticks, basically.  They all hit balls, but
    	some are prettier than others.
    
    	Especially within a manufacturer, where most are made of the
    	same woods, and differ in colors, inlays and graphics.
    

    
    
    except for the fact Steve Vai has never let rip an awesome guitar
    solo on the electric cue!
    
    
    
    now playing the tennis racket is another story! 8)
    
    
    				ian

    Oh, so now we're talking 'bout the high-end Pacifica's from a few years
    past....
    
    A friend of mine was given one by a Yamaha rep. I asked him why 
    he never played it. I also asked if I could borrow it for a few days
    since he wasn't using it. I didn't like the sustain, tone, or pickups.
    
    Different strokes for different folks, but I wasn't impressed in the
    least by this 'high-end' guitar. 

    
    	I picked up the Pacifica 312 Saturday for $299.  Gold hardware,
    	pearloid pickguard, nice sunburst, and the damn whammy stays
    	so in tune I can't believe it.  Came with a gig bag and chord.
    
    	Also a free complete setup within 2 months.  
    
    	I like the humbucker in the bridge vs. single coils.
    
    	I have 10 days to get my money back but I doubt I'll bring
    	it back.  It's a very nice contrast to my Ibanez Artist and
    	sounds great thru the DeVille.
    
    	Tom
    

    
     I seem to be in the base noter's shoes at the moment. My 12 yr.
    old son has caught guitar fever(he's been playing my Guild acoustic
    for the past few months) and desperately wants an electric. So, off
    we went, first to Music 1 in Billerica where he sat with a Squire
    Strat. Definately love at first sight...;^)
     Then we drove over to EU Wurlitzer in Salem NH. and checked out the
    Pacifica 112. He wasn't as thrilled with it. I thought that the
    quality of construction and materials was better than the Strat.
    The cost for the Pacifica was $199 and $179 for the Strat.
     My question is where can we see more Squires to test drive? We live
    in the Wilmington Ma. area. I work in MRO.
     Wurlitzer of Salem only had the higher end Fender models. Apparently
    they just got into the Fender line there and couldn't say if or when
    the would get the Squire line.
     Is anyone familiar with Music 1 in Billerica? 
    
    thanks for any input, 
    Bob
    

    
    Head down to the Guitar Center in Boston.  Last time I was there they
    had a ton of Squire Strats.
    
    Kevin
    

zip down to Mr. C's in Marlboro (right on Rte-20 behind
the country Villa rest.  Not sure if he has any of the
squires there or not..)  he is a fender dealer.

Squire's are probably *the* definitive beginner guitar
though...

Good luck...

     Well, made it over to Guitar Centre in Danvers last night. I must
    say, that's the most guitars I've seen in one place in my life!
    As you enter the showroom there are approx. 40 Squire models staring
    you in the face. All but five of them were white. The others sunburst.
     The price was $199, not sure if that included gig bag. We also played
    a Fender Standard Stratocaster, made in Japan, that I thought was
    a real nice guitar for the money($269). My son felt it was too
    heavey after playing it for a while. His favourite so far is the
    first Squire he played in Billerica.
     Mark, I'm not familiar with the country Villa restaurant location.
    Are we talking about the shopping area west of 495 on rt 20?
    
     Thanks for the help so far.
    
    Bob

     Ah, did I say Mark? I meant Ray.....
    
    
    sorry.
     bob

    
    Guitar Center routinely sells the Squire Strats for $169 when they
    have a sale, so that $199 is a price place-holder.  8^)
    
    Kevin
     

Hi Bob,

Mr. C's....

From MRO1, head down to the lights by the sea food
place (Used to be Toms)..  Take a left at these lights, 
(your heading  towards Northboro on Rt 2, the car dealer
ship, and the Burrows plaza is about 1/8 of a mile
behind you, you'll go up a small hill.)

At the top of the hill there's, there's a strip mall/plaza
on your Right.  Mr. C's is in that plaza..

by the way, for the extra 70 bucks,,, may wanna
really think about the Jap Import...

    
    Hmmm, these Squires were taged with a "Green Tag Sale Price" sticker.
    Sure looked like a sale price....
    Maybe there'll be a "RED TAG SALE!!"  ;^)
    
    As an aside, I bet I coulda convinced him to go for that Japanese
    Strat if it had been red instead of vintage white.
    
    bob

just look around, you'll find one in any color you
like...

    As the original basenoter, I thought I'd give an update to what my son
    and eventually my wife bought:
    
    My son ended up bringing the Pacifica back to Wurlitzer's and exchanged
    it for a Fender Strat (Mexico) in burgundy metallic with maple neck and
    fretboard. It plays quite effortlessly and has a nice tone. I think
    that his decision was largely driven by the "FENDER" logo. He has no
    regrets except that now a year later he lusts for something new and
    different.
    
    My wife who had always played folk guitar but wanted to diversify
    decided to start taking lessons and bought herself the Yamaha Pacifica
    in the tele style body in the natural alder wood finish. For the money
    I don't think you can beat the fit and finish detailing on this. The
    neck has a great feel and after plaing both, my preference is for the 
    Yamaha's rosewood fingerboard. I tend to find the all maple neck on the
    Fender a bit to slick. The only oddity that we've noticed with the
    Yamaha is that it seems to have become louder over time when played
    through an amp. Even my wife's instructor commented that the pickups
    seemed to have developed a hyper-sensitivity. 

    
    Thanks again, all, for the input. I just ran down to Mr. C's for
    a quick look. Their Squire Strat was $199. Their Korean model was
    a bit higher.
     I think for now we'll go back to Music 1 and see what we can do.
    My son is pretty convinced he wants that first Squire he played.
    I'm trying to convince him to get something a notch or two better.
    Strange, I've never had such a hard time trying to get someone to
    spend more of MY money before.
     ;^)
     I agree that the Pacifica line appears to be good value. Like the
    basenoter say's tho, it's a "Fender" thing.
     cheers,
             Bob(who's trying very hard not to buy anything for himself!)

    Well your son had started on a journey that for some of us will never 
    end.   That glitsy new guit begins to look dull pretty fast for some of
    us and we end up trading up to something better only to find out that 
    in twenty years time that same guitar that you paid $200 for and sold
    for $50 two years later is now worth your annual salary.   But I think 
    I have it figured out,,,,,,, KEEP EVERYING!!!!  Now if I can just
    convince my wife.
    
    Signed Bruce_who_sold_a_fifty_seven_tele_in_1965_for 75_bucks!!!
    

    
    My wife has never become accustomed to the "If I want this, then that
    one goes" style of toy management.  Or how I could buy something
    one week and sell it the next. She thinks that must mean I didn't 
    want the item in the first place.
    
    Nope, just doesn't get it. 8-)  
             

     My son Ian is now the VERY proud owner of his first(and undoubtedly
    not his last) electric guitar. The Squire Strat came home with us last
    night along with a Fender Frontman practice amp, gig bag, chord, picks
    and 4 lessons. Total after tax was $309.
     Ken Lemire at Music 1 was great to deal with and spent a lot of
    time with Ian.
     Thanks for the all the suggestions and pass the earplugs...;^)
    
    cheers,
     Bob