| Title: | GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion |
| Notice: | Discussion of the finer stringed instruments |
| Moderator: | KDX200::COOPER |
| Created: | Thu Aug 14 1986 |
| Last Modified: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 3280 |
| Total number of notes: | 61432 |
Basenote: Gibson Flat-top Acoustic Guitars.
After all these years, I thought it was about time we had a
note to discuss, in detail, Gibson Flattop guitars.
Gibson has been making acoustic guitars since the early part of this
century. The earliest Gibson acoustic guitars had arched tops with round
soundholes, floating bridges, and trapeze tailpieces that attached
to the rims. The original trapeze tailpiece used bridge pins to hold the
strings in place. Eventually, Gibson acoustic models migrated into two
distinct groups....flat-tops with fixed bridges, and archtops with
floating bridges and trapeze tailpieces. The archtop guitars have been
covered in painstaking detail in Danny Webers archtop note (#1016).
I don't claim to have the depth of knowledge or personal experience with
Gibson Flattops that Danny brings to the archtop subject. I am more of an
enthusiast. During the last few years, I have read as much material as I
could find on Gibson acoustics and have played dozens of differant models.
Most Gibson flat-tops fit into 3 categories which are determined by
size. L-series instruments have fairly small body sizes. These are Grand-
Concert sized guitars. By modern standards these are considered "Parlor-
sized" guitars. The J45 and similar models were considered Jumbo's when
they first came out, but by modern standards these are Dreadnoughts.
The J200 is a true jumbo-sized guitars.
The L-series includes the L0-L10, LG0-LG?, L-C (Century model), and
the Nick Lukas. L series instruments originally had very rounded body
shapes (like the guitar Robert Johnson played), but Gibson eventually
squared off the shape of the lower bout. Generally the models with lower
numbers (ie: L0, LG0) have mahagony back & sides. Some (LG0) even have
mahogony tops. Models with a higher number have maple back & sides. There
were a few instruments with Brazillian Rosewood back & sides, including
the L2. Gibson L-series instruments have very light construction including
very thin tops and light bracing. This makes them quite loud, and
responsive. They have a very focused sound with tight bass....not quite as
boomy as a dreadnought. During the 60's Gibson introduced an inexpensive
series of instruments with L-size bodies. These models were designated
the B-series. I believe there was at least one classical in this series
as well. These instruments not have a very positive affect on Gibson's
reputation for quality. Perhaps the cheesiest feature on these was a
plastic bridge which was screwed to the top from inside the body below
the soundboard. A friend of mine just bought one of these and he is
replacing the bridge with a fixed rosewood bridge. This should be a huge
improvement. I believe Gibson's thinking at the time was that a small
guitar like this will mainly appeal to beginners and younger students.
Small parlor-sized guitars were not trendy at that time.
The J-series instuments have larger bodies. The first model in this
series was the "Advanced Jumbo". It was a very elegant guitar with
Brazillian Rosewood back & sides, Diamond & arrow inlays on an unbound
rosewood fingerboard and headstock, as well as an inlayed "Script" style
logo. This model was only made until WWII. After the war, Gibson
introduced a similar model with more modest appointments. This was
the J45. It featured Mahogony back & sides, rosewood fingerboard w/dots,
Painted Logo and "Only A Gibson is Good Enough" banner on headstock.
The banner headstock was used on many Gibsons from this era until one
of their competitors (Epiphone?) came up with the slogan "When good
enough isn't enough". Although these were billed as Jumbo's they are
really dreadnoughts. Unlike Martin dreadnoughts the old-style J45's have
very round shoulders. By the 60's Gibson had squared off the shape of the
J45 to be more competative with Martin. Most people will agree that the
older style J45 is much more distintive than the 60's version. There were
other models introduced during the 60's that used the same square shape,
including the Hummingbird, Dove, J40, J50, Gospel, Country & Western,
and Blue Ridge. The J45 has been a work-horse guitar among blue-grass,
country, and folk players for years. Recently, many Rock players doing
their "Unplugged" thang have created an increased demand for J45's.
There was also an electified version of the J45 which was designated
the J160-E. This model was popularized during the 60's by none other
than the Beatles. It featured a built-in single-coil magnetic pickup and
volume and tone knobs attached to the top.
The J200 is a true Jumbo. This is Gibson's top line model with highly
figured curly maple sides, back, and neck, multi-binding throughout,
moustache bridge, heart-shaped fingerboard, and inlayed pickgaurd. It is
also known as the SJ200 (Southern Jumbo). There were several other models
that were based on the J200 with slightly smaller dimensions including the
Everly Brothers and J185. J-200's are extremely popular in the country
music world. The large size and fancy trim make this guitar a status
symbol with many players. It's the Cadillac of acoustic guitars!!
The models with the most collectors appeal include the J200, Advanced
Jumbo, and L-C (Century Model). Advanced Jumbo's are extremely rare, and
are also desirable for their rosewood construction. These are from one of
the greatest era's in guitar building (just prior to WW2) and this is
perhaps Gibson most prolific period. If you ever find a nice clean original
Advanced Jumbo guitar, expect the price to be at least $5k. J200's are
always desirable due to the fancy appointments and fine woods. There is a
large demand for these guitars and prices reflect this fact. A new J200
will set you back about $2k, but a vintage one will cost at least double
that amount. The Century Model is very unique in that it has pearloid
(mother of toilet seat) covering the entire fingerboard. The fingerboard
is inlayed with rosewood blocks that have MOP inlays. This model was
introduced in honor of the city of Chicago's 100th anniversary. It was
only made between '33 and '36. The pearloid fingerboard design was first
used on Gibson Banjo's. Gibson also made an archtop guitar with the same
basic cosmetic appointments, including the pearloid fingerboard and same
style rosewood/MOP inlays. This was also introduced in the '30's.
All of the Gibson flat-tops that I have played have had great tone,
and nice comfortable necks. Older models have wider v-shaped necks. During
the 50's the neck profiles were rounded out to meet the market demand.
By the 60's necks got skinnier just like on the rest of Gibson's line.
The lack of mainstream popularity has kept prices down to earth on most
Gibson acoustic models, except for the collectables listed above. Prices
aren't cheap on these guitars, but they are not sky-rocketing like they
have on old Martins.
Age has a lot more affect on acoustic guitars than it does electrics.
Older instruments are bound to have suffered from stress cracks, lifted
bridges, loose braces, etc. and it is very common to find evidence of
repairs. The older the instrument is, the more forgiving we need to be.
This is especially true with L-series instruments. The tops are quite
fragile due to the thin/light constuction. Many of the Gibson enthusiasts
that I know actually prefer to see some cosmetic wear on an older
instrument. They feel that it gives the instrument more "character".
Personally, they can have the beat up guitars. I prefer nice clean mint
instruments, although a don't mind a little bit of character from lacquer
checking, and other minor anomalies.
In the last 10 years, Gibson has opened a new manufacturing plant in
Boseman, Montana. This plant is exclusively for building acoustic guitars.
The first few years of production were not without problems, but over the
last few years the outgoing quality has been elevated to an extremely high
level. New Gibson acoustics are excellant and represent extremely good
value. Gibson has introduced many new models, and has reissued many older
models including the old-style J45. Some of the older instruments like the
Advanced Jumbo and Century models have been reissued in limited quanities
as part of their "Historic Collection" series. Gibson is also reissuing
some of the square dreadnoughts from the 60's/70's like the Gospel, Dove,
etc.
The Boseman plant also has a very busy custom shop and is beginning
to offer many fancy extras. This sort of mirrors what Martin has been
doing for many years. At some of the larger guitar shows (ie: the South-
West Texas Show) Gibson has displayed many of the very ornate guitars
with custom inlay work and other unique features. The pictures I saw of
these custom creations almost made it look like an "Inlay-Shootout" where
they were competing to see who could build the most ornate instrument.
I own 1 Gibson acoustic. It is a Blues King from about 5 years ago.
A friend of mine owns about a dozen including an LC, L2, LG2, J40, J50,
B-<mumble>, Everly Bros, L-Jr (the Gibson junior guitar from 1926, used
to belong to me). His J50 is reputed to have belonged to John Lennon but
he has nothing to authenticate this. He purchased it from the Music
Emporium and they claim they can prove it was Lennon's original guitar.
The top has been stripped down in an earlier life (something Lennon and
Harrison were known to do. They both had Epiphone Casino's with stripped
tops).
I'd be interested in hearing from other noters with info on Gibson
Acoustics. Dr. Weber? If any of the info I'm offering here is incorrect
please feel free to correct me. I am still learning about this stuff.
Mark Jacques
| T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 3066.1 | The new AJs are monstrous | ROADKL::HALL | Euripides pants, Eumenides pants | Wed Apr 12 1995 16:32 | 35 |
Just a coupla thoughts on the Gibsons.
I have a J45 that I bought new in 1967. I thought at the time that it
was a monstrous guitar, but hey, I was 14. It's a good instrument, but
not great, and certainly no match for its Martin counterpart, the D-18.
However, I have played at least one J45 that had great sound, so I know
there have been some very respectable J45s. One of the things mine has
is an adjustable bridge, that is, the bridge has screws on either end
of the saddle to adjust the action. This, I believe, is the Kiss of
Death for the sound, and one of these days I'm going to get around to
replacing the bridge with a solid one, hopefully making a world of
difference.
For comparison's sake, I've owned a D-18, and currently play a Martin
HD-28 and a little Taylor 412 (which I love).
John Ramsey's Folklore Center in Colorado Springs carries new (Bozeman)
Gibsons, and I've played at least two rosewood Advanced Jumbos down
there that are among the best I've ever played, including prewar
Martins and Collings. They ain't cheap; they've been priced between
$2100 and $2700, but out of the box they can stand up to the prewar
Martins, and are probably well worth the price.
Why don't I buy one? Besides the price tag, I mean? This is
embarrassing, but the problem is that it's not a Martin, Collings,
Santa Cruz, etc. These are GREAT guitars, but I just can't past the
fact that it's a Gibson. I know, it's pretty silly, and there are
other folks who are looking past the name and getting for their sound.
Who knows, maybe some day I'll grow up, or they'll make an AJ with a
natural top. Yeah, that's it... It's that sunburst finish.
OK, back to something productive...
Charlie
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| 3066.2 | Black sheep of the acoustic world | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Wed Apr 12 1995 22:47 | 18 |
Daddy's Junky Music in Shrewsbury, Mass had an advanced jumbo reissue
hanging on the rack for several months, and sold it for $800. I could
kick myself for not buying it while I had the chance.
Amazingly enough, I hear the same thing from many dealers about Gibson
Flat-tops. Music Emporium will sell Gibson acoustics, but no one that
works there will touch one. They all prefer Mahtins. The same goes
for Fiddler's Choice, The Village Fret Shop (NH White Mountins region)
and several other well-known dealers in vintage instuments. Just
between you and me I'm glad. This attitude keeps prices within the
reach of mere mortals like me.
It's about time someone noticed this note. It's going on a week since
I entered it. People have far more interesting things to discuss is my
guess. :^o
Mark
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| 3066.3 | the good-ole 60's | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Wed Apr 12 1995 23:04 | 12 |
One other thought. Gibson Guitars made during the 60 and 70's were
generally built like trucks (ie: thick tops and heavy bracing).
I believe this was done to reduce the amount of warantee repairs.
As a results, these instruments are not as loud, or responsive
as the older models, or the newer models which are based on the old
designs. J45's seem to vary widely from one instrument to the next.
The best of the bunch are great instruments.
Mark
| |||||
| 3066.4 | another fan | BABAGI::MORIN | Thu Apr 20 1995 09:52 | 8 | |
Gibson flat tops are still my favorites. I have a 1940 J-55 that I'll
be buried with (unless the Television takes up too much room). After
having my everyday guitar crunched by unknown assailants(1964 SJ), I
bought a Martin D-35 as a replacement, and, after careful
consideration, I'm going to make a lamp out of it, sell the lamp, and
buy another Gibson.
Robin
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| 3066.5 | Recycle it! | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Tue Apr 25 1995 10:47 | 6 |
Have you considered having the damaged Gibson acoustic repaired?
If you're not planning on fixing it, howzabout selling it to me?
How extensive was the damage?
Mark
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| 3066.6 | Gibson Rarities | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Thu Jun 08 1995 11:05 | 19 |
I have a couple more fun facts to add to this string.
Regarding the LC Century Model, back in the 30's when the Century
Model was introduced in honor of the City Of Chicago's 100's
anniversary, Gibson also introduced the Archtop guitar version, as
well as a Century model Mandolin. All 3 had the same cosmetic
appointments. At the time, you could buy a "Century Set" which
included all 3 instruments.
Regarding the Nick Lucas model acoustic, when the Nick Lucas model
was introduced (I believe it was late 1920's, Depression era) it
was the most expensive guitar model on Gibson's entire price list.
Obviously very few people could afford to buy one of these guitars.
The few people that did often requested custom options be added.
Original Nick Lucas guitars are quite rare, and the ones that have
custom features are generally one-of-a-kind. For this reasons, prices
are very high (ie: $10k and higher).
Mark
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| 3066.7 | Another Gibson joins the herd. | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Mon Jun 26 1995 16:07 | 20 |
As a mentioned in the Guitar Show string, I picked up a Gibson LG1
this weekend at the New England Guitar Show. The dealer was asking
$500 for it, and I aquired it by trading 2 other instruments.
This guitar was made in 1966. It features all-mahagony construction
with a solid spruce top, sunburst finish, skinny neck, and kluson
plate-mount tuners. It is sized like a Martin 000. A lot of people
don't like 60's Gibsons because of the skinny necks, but for certain
playing styles the skinny neck comes in handy. Overall, the guitar
is in very good condition, plays great, and was a good instrument
to aquire. The weak link on this guitar (and many acoustics from this
era) is the bridge. Believe it or not, Gibson used plastic bridges
on these instruments. The bridge was screwed down to the top from
inside. A friend of mine has converted a few of these to Rosewood
bridges and it makes for a huge improvement. He has already agreed
to upgrade this one for me. Despite the plastic bridge, the guitar
has very good tone. I can't wait to hear it with a Rosewood bridge.
Later, Mark
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| 3066.8 | J45 fever. | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Mon Nov 27 1995 09:47 | 31 |
For the last couple of weeks, I've had in my possesion, a brand
new Gibson J45 reissue model. It belongs to a friend of mine. He
offered to sell it to me, but I'm trying to work a trade instead.
This is a reissue of the late 40's J45 complete with the banner
headstock and a special anniversary label inside the body. It is
of course sunburst, with a nice chubby neck and beautifully grained
spruce top. The sides and back are very nice mahagony with a medium
redish-brown finish. This guitar comes with the most outrageous
hard-shell case I've seen from Gibson. The case is dark brown on the
outside with a Gibson/Montana logo. The inside is lined with purple
fuzzy material.
This guitar plays very well, although the strings are a bit stiff.
It has a perfect low-end growl without being too boomy. I've played
a few other new J45's that were not the reissue model, and they
did not grab me like this guitar. The only feature on this guitar
that doesn't appeal to me is the kluson tuners with trapazoid buttons.
Original J45's had plate-mount klusons with white oval buttons. I can
always swap tuners to make it look a little more like the original.
This is a very minor nit, but it means a lot to an old-time J45
loyalist. The trapazoids are a little too fancy for the humble J45.
I offered to trade both the Gibson Blues King, and the LG1 for this
J45. I figure one great guitar is better than 2 so-so guitars. The
J45 would definately get played a lot more than either of the others.
This would also free up a little more space in my home studio. I'll
keep you posted on the outcome. Stay tuned!
Mark
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| 3066.9 | Acoustic bracing. | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Tue Nov 28 1995 15:07 | 32 |
One subject I didn't touch upon in the base note is bracing. This
is a non-trivial matter when it comes to acoustics. There are 3
basic forms of bracing used on acoustic guitars...ladder, X, and
Fan. Ladder bracing is found on the less expensive guitars. It
provides a sturdy support structure for the top, but it does not
allow maximum vibration, and therefore tends to dampen the top
resulting in a muffled sound. X bracing is found on more expensive
models including most Martins, Guilds, Gibsons, and other top-line
models. It provides the needed support for the top, but does not
dampen the top nearly as much as ladder bracing. Fan bracing allows
for maximum top vibration, but does not offer much structural strength,
therefore it is not used on steel-sting guitars. Is is mainly only
found on classical (nylon-string) guitars.
Ladder bracing is found on the lower line Gibson models including
the LG0 (mahagony top), and LG1.
X-bracing is found on most of Gibson's top models including the
J45, AJ, L2, LG2, J200, etc.
Gibson has made very few classical guitars over the years. These
are the only fan-braced Gibsons you're likely to find.
The same principles hold true with respect to archtops. I suggest
you consult Danny Weber's note (1016) for details on arch top bracing.
When I have more time, I'll talk about acoustic guitar sizing.
Mark
| |||||
| 3066.10 | 12 strings? | SLBLUZ::BROCKUS | Who is John Galt? | Tue Nov 28 1995 15:45 | 26 |
I have a Gibson B-45-12, twelve string, S/N 155xx It's a georgous piece of work. I only wonder what it sounds like. It was purchased, new, by my father in about 1967. He didn't get to play it much, and he died in 1968. It sat in the same closet in the same house for 27 years, with air conditioning and heat, so it faced no extremes. With medium or heavy strings, tuned up some. I am learning the guitar, found out my mother still had this one, and got it out. The top is buckled, the bridge is warped, and the bracing is loose. I have gotten two estimates for repairs so far, and will get another this week. The first two were $200 and $400 for repairs. This guitar still has some of the tags and tissue paper it was sold with. I am curious what year it was actually manufactured (probably 1966 or 1967), and how much it would be worth after being repaired. It will not be for sale, due to the family attachment. thanks, JPB | |||||
| 3066.11 | E::EVANS | Wed Nov 29 1995 08:04 | 6 | ||
Since you have tags and it wasn't used much, maybe you could get Gibson to do some of the work under warranty. I was able to do this with my Martin. Jim | |||||
| 3066.12 | Feed a cold, starve a fevor! | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Thu Dec 14 1995 08:00 | 11 |
Well the J45 deal is done. I ended up keeping the L00 Blues King.
It really is a good playing/sounding guitar and I decided it is
one guitar a need to keep.
I traded the LG1, my old Harmony Bass and cash for the J45. Now that
it officially belongs to me, it's time to get it polished up, change
strings, and tweak the action. This is one guitar that I'll keep
forever. My kids can fight over it after I go to that big blues-jam
in the sky.
Mark
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