Conference napalm::guitar

    Head down to Newbury Music, 299 Newbury Street (near Hereford) in
    downtown Boston.  Talk to John.  Tell him I sent you.
    
    John just got two used Alembic 6's in, a Europa and an Elan.  
    Both are fairly recent (90's) and pretty clean.  He's looking to
    get around $2k for each of em, and I'd wager he'll talk (don't
    tell him I said that though :-)  Guitar Center in Boston also
    has at least one new Europa 6, if you want to pay twice as much.
    
    /owsley
    

    btw, I don't know about multiple orgasms, but the Europas
    will probably give you multiple hernias
    
    :-)

    If you find a bass that causes multiple orgasms, I'm quitting keyboards
    and guitar and devoting all my attention to bass.

    I take that back.
    
    I just remembered that playing the Steinway concert grands and
    (particularly) the Bosendoerfer that they have in those stores
    near the commons has been known to cause continuous orgasms as long as
    you play.

    But...a very expensive bass is still far less then an inexpensive grand
    piano.
    
    Greg

    Contact C.P. (Chuck) Thornton - a custom-maker of extremely high-end
    basses.  He's lives/works in Bryant Pond, ME.  Tell him I referred you
    please.  You won't be disappointed. 
    
    207-364-7383  
    
    	Dan 

I get my '86 PRS Custom back tomorrow from being refinished.  Pat Wilkins 
from Canoga Park CA did the finish with Amber stains from the PRS factory 
and a headstock overlay hand-signed (autographed) by Paul Reed Smith.
Pat Wilkins thinks this may be one of the best if not *the* best finish
jobs he has ever done.  Jim Mouridian is recrowning the frets and 
reinstalling the electronics.  Jim said the finish on the quilted maple
top is "on fire" and overall the guitar is perhaps the best he has ever
seen.  I don't need multiple orgasms, but I think I am getting an 
erection in anticipation of getting this one back home.

Jim

    > Bass is cheaper than a grand
    
    Maybe true, but I don't care WHAT instrument you play, there is NOTHING
    like sitting behind the wheel of the world's VERY best pianos.
    
    Even playing a simple octave in the bass end generates a feeling of
    power that is even more all-consuming than standing in front of a stack
    of hot-rodded Marshalls.
    
    I.E. the piano is maybe 50 times more expensive and WORTH EVERY PENNY!
    
    You guys will just have to trust me on this.
    
    	db

 >     Maybe true, but I don't care WHAT instrument you play, there is NOTHING
 >     like sitting behind the wheel of the world's VERY best pianos.
    
    If it's got a wheel on it, you might want to reevaluate your
    assertion that it's one of the best ...

   I've also heard wonderful things about the Thornton basses mentioned in .6.
   Haven't actually played one, but everyone I know who has raves about them.
   I figure if I were going to spend that kind of money on a bass I'd probably
   go the custom route.

   BTW, there's a neverending discussion on this subject (and many others...
   typical USENET group) on rec.music.makers.bass.  You can also occasionally
   see a post from Brian Rost there.  And the president of Rickenbacker is a
   participant, too (not that'd you'd be looking for a Rick).

   -- Sam
   

    While I admit the sound of a really good piano can be awe-inspiring,
    there is not a big difference in feel between good pianos. In fact,
    I think a good player could adapt to most decent keyboards... I
    don't get hung-up on the feel of an instrument with a keyboard the
    way I do with a bass. Keys tend to be keys... all pretty uniformly
    spaced and all that. The only keyboard I never managed to get used
    to was my Ensoniq SQ80... and that's not a feel thing... it's that
    I hate the way it goes "clacky clacky" when I play it... real nice
    for quiet songs, ya know... keyboard itself makes more noise than
    the part I'm playing. :-) Complete POS if you ask me, and you can
    use your imagination as to what POS stands for. :-)
    
    Now bass, different story. Feel is everything. Different basses hit
    different players different ways. Never was, for instance, an
    Ibanez bass made that I could stomach to play. I *hate* those things.
    Other guys love 'em. On the other hand, not too many folks like
    the feel of a Steinberger, but I do.
    
    Along with feel, there's sound. Since I'm a slap player, I want
    a bass that the B/E-string doesn't clack on the neck when I thumb
    it. Does the lowest string have good definition, even if played
    open? Are harmonics in tune? Can I chord I-V-VIII at every
    possible place and not hear any beating? Does it have the marvelous
    sweaty growl that makes the bass the sexiest musical instrument
    ever invented? Can I do a slide on the fretboard without
    it sounding like individual notes? Can I hold the thing for
    three hours without a chiropractic adjustment? When I let go
    of the neck, does the head fall and bounce on the floor? Does
    it effectively hide the 20 pounds I'd so desperately like to
    lose... :-) you know, the important stuff. :-)
    
    By the way, I've noticed a wide variety in instruments of the same
    make and model... about the only absolutely consistent mass produced
    bass is the Ibanez. Each and every one of them blows chunks. :-) :-)
    
    -b

       <<< Note 2989.11 by MPGS::MARKEY "The machine that goes `ping'" >>>
              -< Still looking, BTW so keep them pointers coming >-

>By the way, I've noticed a wide variety in instruments of the same
>make and model... about the only absolutely consistent mass produced
>bass is the Ibanez. Each and every one of them blows chunks. :-) :-)
    
>>  -b


Okay, Clue me in.  Why do you hate Ibanez??  I've played many different 
bases and I really like the Ibanez.

Joe

    
    	"POS" = "piano on steroids", right?
    
    							GTI
    

    Brian, the most orgastic electric bass I ever played through was a
    Fodera 5-string.  It belonged to Skip <mumble>, a Boston area fusion
    player.  You ever have a feeling of electricity when you touch an
    instrument?  (besides due to bad grounds :-).  This did it.  The wood
    sang, even unplugged.  Balance and weight was perfect.  Feel, like
    buttah.
    
    Fodera mostly builds to order, but you can find a few of their basses
    in the high-end bass stores.  You could probably see one in NYC, but 
    you might as well go to Fodera's workshop if you're going to be making
    that trip.  Give em a call on the phone; they're good guys.
    
    Above all, try to check one of these out before you make a final
    decision.
    
    /rick
    

    >Okay, Clue me in.  Why do you hate Ibanez??  I've played many different 
    >bases and I really like the Ibanez.
    
    For starters, I don't like the feel. It's a combination of
    string spacing, and the fact that the strings just hang limply
    on the neck. Very uneven fretwork - with lots of buzz and other
    metallic noise. Necks my hands do *not* get along with.
    
    Don't get me wrong... if you like them, you like them. A
    bass is a personal thing. Most of my fear and loathing of
    Ibanez stems from the fact that I'm principally a slap
    player, and I find them completely awkward for that style
    of play. But even if that could be overcome, there's still
    the sound, which doesn't float my boat either.
    
    I visited someone's house recently who had an Ibanez... they
    brought it proudly, waiting for me to try it out... I told
    them I was more interested in watching them play... :-) :-)
    
    I went shopping this weekend. Played Alembics, Tobias, Pedula,
    Zon, Modulas... tried everything the stores had on the wall.
    At one place, the salesman kept telling me that he had an
    Ibanez bass that was the bees knees... so I played it just
    to get him out of my face. About twenty seconds later, I put
    the thing back on the rack and left the store. It was exactly
    what I exptected. POS. And that's *not* piano on steroids,
    although I got a good chuckle out of that. :-)
    
    -b
    
    P.S. It's not "point of sale" either... :-)

    I'm certainly no slap-meister, but the nicest bass for that particular
    style that I've tried was a Status.  And it one of the all graphite
    ones, not even their top model.  I don't think any of the Boston stores
    carry em, but the Boston Bass Company is an authorized dealer and last
    time I talked to him he was expecting some in (BBC is a guy who deals
    high-end basses out of his basement in Berlin, MA.  508-838-2621).
    
    So Brian, you checked out all these fine basses, how about posting a
    little review, either here or in the High End Bass note (1571)?
    C'mon dude, give it up!
    

    Cool, even some basses I've never heard of... Thornton, Fodera...
    
    Isn't a Fodera a felt hat? Oh, that's Fedora... never mind. :-) :-)
    
    Tried a Clevinger... interesting, but not much use for any
    of my current gigs. Unbelieavable wallop to the E string
    though. What a sound! A real bump and grind engine...
    
    -b

    >C'mon dude, give it up!
    
    Don't worry man... I will. I'm still doing the homework, that's all.
    This is gonna take a while. Remember, patience is a virgin! :-) :-)
    
    -b

    Fodera is a small New Yawk builder, probably been around about ten
    years now.  Vinny Fodera originally worked in Ken Smith's shop, then
    set off on his own.  They do the typical multi-layer exotic-wood bodies
    and necks, all hand made, very very nice.  Their logo is a large inlaid
    butterfly on the headstock.  You can probably get their address and number
    from an issue of Bass Player.
    
    Someone was selling a Fodera 'Anthony Jackson Signature' 6-string in the
    WantAds recently for $3k.
    

>    While I admit the sound of a really good piano can be awe-inspiring,
>    there is not a big difference in feel between good pianos. 
    
    Let's agree to just disagree here.
    
    	db

    db,
    
    I think I may have mis-stated my point a bit. There tends to be
    more uniformity of feel in pianos than there is in basses... or
    any stringed instrument for that matter (and before someone
    "corrects" me that the piano is a stringed instrument... look it
    up. The piano is a percussion instrument.)
    
    I believe there are fewer variables in the _feel_ of a piano than
    there are in stringed instruments. You have 88 uniformly-sized
    keys which only move in two dimensions...
    
    This is not an attempt to belittle piano or keyboard instruments
    in any way. I just don't see the comparison. The variability among
    pianos lies more in the sound, in my opinion, than in the feel.
    It's definitely a big difference. I've played the Steinways, the
    Falcones... and I've played the Young Changs. No doubt about it...
    BIG DIFFERENCE in sound. Fairly minor difference in feel... sure,
    the Young Chang is stiffer and lacks the harmonic character of a
    Steinway... but consider this: a good pianist, such as yourself,
    can play either one and create a reasonable performance. I consider
    myself a good bass player, but there's basses out there -- good
    high-end basses --  that I couldn't get a decent performance out
    of if I was in a contest and Rosanne Arquette was the prize...
    :-) :-)
    
    Anyway, I don't think we disagree... which is why I thought it
    important to restate my point lest we embark on another war of
    violent agreement. :-) :-) :-)
    
    -b

re:      <<< Note 2989.11 by MPGS::MARKEY "The machine that goes `ping'" >>>

>	Never was, for instance, an
>    Ibanez bass made that I could stomach to play. I *hate* those things.
>    Other guys love 'em. On the other hand, not too many folks like
>    the feel of a Steinberger, but I do.

   That's interesting.  I have both an Ibanez 5 string and a Steinberger 4
   string, and while they're very different, I love 'em both.

   Different strokes, I guess...

   -- Sam
   

    > I don't think we disagree.
    
    I think we do.  I think there's a big difference in the "feel".
    
    	db

    Well, I'm sure everyone is just _dying_ to see us argue about
    this db. Pickings have been a bit slim since you and Mike buried
    the Morse/Satch hatchet. :-) :-)
    
    Anyway... I've got another musical iron in the fire -- that I
    can't get into at this time -- but I was going through a bunch
    of older (mostly junk) basses that I have sitting in my parent's
    attic.
    
    I came across this semi-acoustic Klira bass that was a knock-
    off of the old Hohner Beatle Bass. I just might resurrect
    this beasty though it's gonna take a *lot* of work. I haven't
    seen one of these basses in a long-time, but while I was
    shopping in Beantown saturday, low and behold... one of the
    original Hohner's hanging up on the wall at the Guitar Center...
    
    Didn't play it, didn't even price it, but it piqued my interest
    none-the-less. 
    
    My parent's attic yielded some other goodies, such as an
    unbelievable P-bass neck (circa 1967) that I forgot I had.
    The body is just some stock piece of junk... but that neck!
    Phew! One of these days when I'm in a bass-building mood...
    :-)
    
    -b

>    Well, I'm sure everyone is just _dying_ to see us argue about
>    this db. Pickings have been a bit slim since you and Mike buried
>    the Morse/Satch hatchet. :-) :-)
    
    Whaddaya mean?  Satch drools, Morse rules!

    >I assume you mean Hofner?
    
    I do indeed. Sorry 'bout that.
    
    -b

   BTW, I mentioned rec.music.makers.bass a while back;  Someone from
   Modulus Graphite recently posted an article, including a pointer to
   their WWW Home Page.  I pulled it up, and it turns out they have an
   online catalog.  Nice .GIF images of their stuff, too.  Check it out!

   http://128.149.29.19/~scott/modulus.html

   -- Sam
   

>    high-end basses --  that I couldn't get a decent performance out
>    of if I was in a contest and Rosanne Arquette was the prize...
    
    Man, I read this as "Rosanne Arnold" when I saw it the first time... 
    Not sure the word "prize" would be the word I'd use in that case
    though.
    
    FWIW, I think it's kind of interesting that you hate the Ibanez basses
    so much when the only two bass players I've personally known who were
    real heavy (and skillful) slappers both played 'em.  One guy has the 6
    string version and one the 4.  I do know the Ibanez 4/5 string basses
    I've played have had really thin necks, they seem to target guitar
    players who want bigger strings.  If I wanted to play a Strat, I'd
    stick with guitar.  Now the 6 string my friend has is a completely
    different animal.  Different scale, different feel to the strings,
    different quality of fretwork, different sound.  You may still not like
    'em, but it's a radically different feel then the $500 jobs that you
    find in every music store.  One would certainly hope so, considering
    that it cost something like $1.8k.
                                    
    Greg

    Oh man... if I was in a contest and Rosanne Arnold was the prize... I'd
    play like crap on *any* bass just so I'd be *sure* to lose! :-) :-)
    About the only way I'd spend a night with Rosanne Arnold is if we were
    restaurant hopping in LA. I bet she knows where to eat!! :-) :-) :-)
    
    I think I did try one of those high-endy Ibanez jobies... I didn't
    look at the price tag, 'cause I wasn't buying regardless of price.
    But the saleman had that pleading "buy this bass pleeeeease" look
    in his eye. Must be a high-commission item. :-) :-)
    
    String spacing. That's my biggest gripe. And that wierd floppiness
    in the strings. They all seem to play like they're tuned 2 or 3
    half steps low. And that poingy sound drives me nuts. All I can
    think of is that really old video game named "pong", tuned in
    half steps up the neck. But enough. I think I've rather completely
    trashed the I-word already...
    
    So far, I like one of the Alembics I tried the best. I plead
    ignorance of the particular models, but there's one type of
    Alembic that has a more rectangular cut to the neck (which I
    didn't like at all), and then there's one with a softer curve
    which is quite nice. The thing that struck me about this
    particular bass is it had that fretless growl to it. Plus
    the B string is very responsive, with great definition.
    The downside is the width of the neck. It's fargin ridiculous,
    but I have fairly large hands so I should be able to adapt.
    Gotta try some of these other basses though before I make
    the jump. Maybe what I need is a few new basses. Yeah, that's
    the ticket... :-)
    
    I got hired to do some session work and the producer is
    noted for demanding a wide variety of sounds (he came
    over my house this week and although I already have quite
    the arsenal of basses, he was bitchin' 'cause I didn't
    have one of these or one of those... so I told him to
    go get me some endorsement deals. :-) Pretty sure though
    that Ibanez won't be knockin' on my door soon... :-)
    
    Already picked up one new bass... a Music Man Stingray 5
    stringer... used. I've been collecting MM basses for a
    while and this one matched the shirt I was wearing... so
    hey, who can resist? :-) :-)
         
    -b

    >>tringer... used. I've been collecting MM basses for a
    >>while and this one matched the shirt I was wearing... so
    >>hey, who can resist? :-) :-)
    
    I like the way this man thinks!
    

    Must be nice to have more extra money then you know what to do with...

The coolest bass I ever tried as a fretless pedulla...I almost took up playing
bass it was so cool...

almost

dbii

    >Must be nice to have more extra money then you know what to do with...
    
    Don't assume... I don't. I run a business, and since my business is
    music related (a music production house), and since it is a real
    business and in fact accounts for a majority of my income, music
    equipment is deductible. It's a hell of a lot better than giving
    it to the stinking thiefs in Washington DC and Beacon Hill, and
    I make further profits as I resell portions of my collection.
    
    Perhaps you should consider that I might have been kidding around
    a little too (I even gave you a hint in the form of a smiley face...)
    
    -b

    Perhaps you should consider that I was completely joking.  I didn't
    think the hint was necessary.
    
    Greg

    Fine. Peace bro.
    
    -b

    GREG, YOUR TO BLAM!!!

    BLAM ??  Dat looks like Jesse_speak

    Nope I recognize that.... that's RCASCO drive through romor mill
    speach... right outta B_CELTS.
    
    As in, "I heard Mark West is gonna trade his Fodera 6 string to
    Oliver Miller for an Alembic Europa and 12 boxes of Swiss
    Chocolate..." :-)
    
    -b

    only 12 boxes?  

    
    B,
    
    I've played the Modulus Graphite... not impressed.. especially
    considering the price-tag. The Alembic is a real nice bass, but
    also over-priced (their active electonics are great, tho!!).  I've played
    Pedulla's ...also not impressed. I absolutely love the ZON 5-string!!
    It's big bucks but worth every penny (seriously considering this as 
    my next toy). Right now I play a Carvin LB75 w/ EMG's. Players are
    always coming up to the stage and drooling over the sound of this
    thing. I'd never consider a bolt-on neck again (Carvin's are all
    Neck-thru w/ Wilkerson bridges... EMG's make a big difference!!)
    I've probably got about $1000 into this bass and it blows away the 
    Modulus Graphite (IMHO). I also share your opinion of the Ibanez line.
    Totally overrated!! Still have a major woody over the ZON. If you can
    spring for the bucks, go for it (I'm still saving my pennies...)
    
    /Bill_K
    
    PS - still the sweetest sounding bass I've ever played/owned is my
         '67 Jazz with active Alembics and a BadAss... I can get any sound 
         I want...from a deep acoustic bass sound to an incredibly bright 
         snap! Too bad it isn't a 5-string...
    
    

    
    Sam,
     
    Nice to see your still giving a good home to my Steiny.
    I still miss this one...
    
    /Billy_K

    I Know A_Band of Young Kool_Cats who are Practicin Outta Dracut,MA.
    Lookin fer A Bass_Player.
    
    
       Crazy_Nerds_Need_Not_Apply_Al
    

    
    	I'm surprised no one has mentioned Sadowsky basses. If I remember
    correctly, Paul Sadowsky is a N.Y.C. builder that is reputed to build
    a really fine Bass very similar to a Fender Jazz bass. Rick Calcagni,
    I thought you were interested in these basses at one time.
    
    	Personally, if I had 2-3 killobucks to invest in a bass, I'd use
    the money to put together an entire arsenal of basses including a
    J-Bass, Rick, T-bird and maybe even one of them acoustic-electric jobs. 
    For $3k you could probably buy all four. I paid $600 for my Jazz bass
    about 3 years ago and it's mint. 
    
    	BTW, I just wanted to point out that "GTS" is shorthand for 
    "Guitar Toy Syndrome", a disease that has ravaged this notesfile 
    for the last several years. There is no known cure, but to relieve
    the synptoms of GTS it helps to buy 2 or 3 new guitar toyz
    
    			a week!!!
    
    	Mark

    You're right Mark, Sadowsky is worth checking out.  He recently started
    building 5's, no 6's yet though.  The design is very similar to the Fender
    Jazz, and brought up to 'modern' standards.  Lots of studio guys are into
    these.  Note that they are a bolt-on design though, and I think Brian said
    he was looking for a neck-through.
    

    More ideas.  I've been hearing a lot about the new Music Man Sterling
    bass.  Slightly smaller body and J-bass string spacing.  Another
    bolt-on, but I've been told this bass is especially hot for slap-style
    playing.  Brian, since you're an MM kinda guy you probably already know
    about these, but thought I'd mention it just in case
    
    /rick

Wasn't there a Mouridian bass in the Want-Ads?

Jim

    I've played a Sadowsky... they're cool but for my money, nothing
    makes a better Fender than a Fender...
    
    As for spending the money on a bunch of basses... I already have
    a lot of basses... Music Mans, Fenders (both vintage and newer),
    a stereo Rick, a Steinberger, a Zon ... even a MIDI-ized bass.
    I just brought an old Beatle bass (my first "real" bass) to my
    luthier last night to get rebuilt. That will bring the count
    to 11.
    
    And, by the way, bass #10 was...
    
    	An Alembic Europa 6 string. New. I got it at near cost;
    	it pays to know people. :-)
    
    I couldn't resist this bass... it was just too nice. I'm still
    in the market for another bass... I've decided that it will be
    a 5 string fretless. So, please, by all means keep the pointers
    coming.
    
    As for the Sterling... *very* cool bass. I've played one, but I
    haven't bought one yet. I'm holding out on further MM purchases
    because of something I've got cooking... :-) :-) :-)
    
    -b

    
    I've heard a lot of great things about the Sadowsky's, but I've
    not had a chance to rap my mitts around one yet... Anyone able
    to review this one for us???
    
    /Billy_K
    

    It's Rodger Sadowsky, not Paul.  He makes custom guitars and basses and
    has been kind of a "luthier to the stars".  A big proponant of the
    "epoxy in" fret method.  I've read several articles he's written for
    luthiery magazines, seems like an interesting guy.  His specialty is
    well crafted traditional Fender-style instruments.  I read once that if
    you like Gibsons, PRS is a good custom upgrade for you, but if you like
    Fenders, a Sadowsky would suit you better.
    
    Greg

    
    Dumb question, probably, but do you tune the 6 string with a low
    B and a high C?
    
    Dave
    

    >Dumb question, probably, but do you tune the 6 string with a low
    >B and a high C?
    
    
    the Dream Theater dude's (John Myung) 6-string basses are tuned
    B, E, A, D, G, B

re: .51, .52

>    >Dumb question, probably, but do you tune the 6 string with a low
>    >B and a high C?
>    
>    the Dream Theater dude's (John Myung) 6-string basses are tuned
>    B, E, A, D, G, B

I think a high C is more common, though.

-Hal

    Speaking of DT... aren't they playing in Beantown tonight?
    
    -b

    >Speaking of DT... aren't they playing in Beantown tonight?
    
    Indeed they are, but tonights show is sold out (scalper city).
    
    Here is a list of dates, should anyone wanna catch these guys in
    action:
    
    21 OCT      Boston, MA
    22 OCT      New Haven, CT
    24 OCT      Buffalo, NY
    25 OCT      Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    27 OCT      Baltimore, MD
    28 OCT      New York, NY
    29 OCT      Pittsburgh, PA
    31 OCT      Columbus, OH
    
    01 NOV      Grand Rapids, MI
    04 NOV      Milwaukee, WI
    05 NOV      Chicago, IL
    06 NOV      Detroit, MI
    08 NOV      Minneapolis, MN
    10 NOV      St. Louis, MO
    11 NOV      Kansas City, MO
    12 NOV      Oklahoma City, OK
    14 NOV      San Antonio, TX
    16 NOV      Dallas, TX
    17 NOV      Austin TX
    18 NOV      Houton, TX
    20 NOV      El Paso, TX
    22 NOV      Denver, CO
    25 NOV      Salt Lake City, UT
    28 NOV      Seattle, WA
    29 NOV      Portland, OR
    
    01 DEC      San Francisco, CA
    04 DEC      Tucson, AZ
    05 DEC      Tempe, AZ
    09 DEC      Los Angeles, CA

    
    Geez... If I knew what to do with 6 strings, I'd play one of those
    tiny little things with the skinny strings ... NOT!!
    
    Besides, they may watch the guitarist, but they GRIND to the bass!!
    
    /Billy_K

    To answer the question... I'm using the BEADGC tuning on my six string.
    The rationale for the B string on guitars -- being a natural element
    in a barred chord -- is less important in my eyes to bass players...
    but being able to play symmetrically for all scale positions is...
    so that's why the C string.
    
    The real bonus though is the low B string... 
    
    -b

    You mean you don't play barred chords on your basses?

    I do play bar chords from time to time... :-)
    
    -b

    I accidently tuned the high C to a B one night; it was cool.  I use
    chords on the upper three strings and the different tuning led me to
    some new voicings.  Funny how a simple change like that will uncover
    the obvious.  But normally, I stick with a high C.
    
    /rick