Conference napalm::guitar

    Almost all digital multieffects will not let you separate the
    compressor from the rest of the chain the way you would like.  This
    rules out everything except the Ensoniq DP-4, which can be configured
    as four independent stereo processors. So all other choices require a
    separate compressor.
    
    Ask Dave Blickstein if it will do the channel switching stuff you
    want...
    
    							Brian

Most of those devices wont switch the amp. You'll need to invest in a rockman
octipus, kitty hawk patch bay (if you can find one), or the digital music 
ground control expander

dbii

Thanks for the replies.

>>    Almost all digital multieffects will not let you separate the
>>    compressor from the rest of the chain the way you would like.  This
>>    rules out everything except the Ensoniq DP-4, which can be configured
>>    as four independent stereo processors. So all other choices require a
>>    separate compressor.
  
The Zoom 9010 also has 4 independent processors, with 4*in and 4*out and 
the Yamaha SPX 990 and Roland RSP500 have two independent processors, so one 
must be able to separate the compressor from the rest of the chain.

Also, the Zoom 9030 and 9050 have an effect loop between the compression
and the other effects. By inserting the pre-amp into this loop, the effect 
will be same: the compressor is before the preamp, the rest of the effects 
between the preamp and the end-amp.
Or... please correct me if I'm wrong.

>>Most of those devices wont switch the amp. You'll need to invest in a rockman
>>octipus, kitty hawk patch bay (if you can find one), or the digital music 
>>ground control expander

Got any (rough estimation of) prices?

Dave, do you own a Ensoniq DP/4? 

    If you would like a bit of the best of both worlds with the stomps,
    the multieffects, and the patching options, I noticed in a catalog that
    I got this last week that Roland (Boss) is offering a new floor pedal
    multieffects unit that has slots in it for 3 (I think) stomp boxes, so
    in addition to the effects in the efx processor, you can stick anything
    else in there that you want and set up patches to either use 'em or
    not.  Seemed like a good idea for someone like me, maybe for you, I
    don't know.  I don't have any idea if it'll switch your amp channels
    for you or not, I seem to remember a couple of the older efx units like
    the Roland GP-8 that would do that.
    
    I don't know if you realize how much some of those processors you're
    talking about cost either, both the Ensoniq DP/4 and the high end Zoom
    processor are very expensive.  If finances are a concern, you're better
    off getting a midi controllable switching device like the Rockman Midi
    Octapus and a couple of seperate units to keep stuff like compression
    and gain boost operations ahead of the amps preamp.  
    
    I went through the same delemma when I was interested in having a bunch
    of effects way back when.  If I found myself needing to do that in a
    live situation again, I'd be back there today.  I think  the unit I'd
    be most interested in is the Ensoniq DP/4.
    
    Greg
                                              

    Re: .3
     
    I suppose in your application you can live with *mono* effects?  The
    Yamaha and Roland only let you operate as two mono units, right?  I
    suppose I assuemd you wanted stereo effects. sorry.
    
    							Brian

    In thinking about it more, I think I'd probably get two less expensive
    seperate midi controllable efx units and use one before the amp's
    preamp and one in the efx loop.  With that, you can get any combination
    of effects, and have it all centrally controllable.  The only thing
    that'd be missing is the channel switching, which could be added with
    something like the Rockman Octapus.
    
    Seems like the system would be just as flexable and would cost a bit
    less.  But I don't know your budget or what you're lookin for in terms
    of sound quality, and that could make a big difference.
    
    The two seperate units would allow a bit more tailoring in that dept
    too.  For instance, you could get a relatively inexpensive unit to
    stick in front of the preamp, that had decent compression and overdrive
    (if that interests you), then put another unit that specializes in
    time based effects in the effects loop.  For instance, you could stick
    a Roland GP-8 in front of everything, and a Lexicon LXP-1 in the
    effects loop.  Cool sounds, lots of control.  In fact, if you used the
    GP-8, it'd switch channels for ya too.  But, it was discontinued long
    ago and when it was new cost as much as the heavy function units you're
    talking about anyway...
    
    Greg
                           

prices:

The kitty hawk stuff you'll have to find used, good hunting

I'm not certain about the rocman octopus, the digital music ground control
expander was in Muscian's Friend a couple of issues back, seems like I 
remember it being a little over $200, I could be wrong.

I don;t own the ensoniq, if I was buying a multi-effects I'd get a digitec
tsr-24 or one of the new sony's

dbii

 
  I like the idea of two (less expensive) separate midi controllable efx
  processors in combination with a midi-patch to control the channel switching
  both the efx processors! 
  This gives me more flexibility, all controlable from one footpedal at
  probably less costs.

  For the first processor - between the guitar and the preamp - a (19") midi 
  controlable compressor will probably be sufficient. I don't know what is 
  available at reasonable prices, but I will check that out. (It will probably 
  cost twice as much here as in the US, but I just have to get used to that 
  idea; Or is anyone willing to trade for a couple of pieces delicious dutch 
  cheese?:-)

  I'll check out the prices of a midi-patch (the Rocktron octopus, the digital
  music ground control expander,and maybe some others).
  This thing is simply *required* with the most units for the amp-switching that 
  I want. The only effect units that provide direct channel switching are the 
  ART mulitverb Alpha, the Korg A4 and the good old Roland GP-8.

  For the second processor - in the boogie's effect loop - I now have more
  effect units to choose from (more?? sigh) because it doesn't have to do
  channel switching and it doesn't have to deal with the compression.
  This means that I can actually use effects like the Yamaha SPX 990 and the 
  Roland RSP 550 in stereo(!), of course provided that I buy a sereo setup some
  time in the future :-)
  
  Efx units to choose from are:
    *) ART multiverb Alpha 
    *) Ensoniq DP/4 
       I don't know if I can afford it. What is the going price in the US?
       About $1200?
    *) Rocktron Intellifex
       Anyone got any experiences with it?
    *) Lexicon LXP-1, LXP5 or LXP15.
       I thought the LXP-1 is a single effect unit only, right?
       The LXP5 is a multiFX which can do reverb, delay, modulation, eq, etc
       up to 5 at once.
       The LXP15 is very expensive over here: it costs f3013 dutch guilders 
       which is about the same as $1500! 
    *) Zoom 9030 or 9050
       I found out that the Zoom 9010 is not for usage on stage: it needs too 
       much time to switch from one preset to another.
    *) Roland RSP 550
    *) Yamaha SPX 990
    *) Kawai RV4
    *) Others? Sony?? I thought they had only single effect units. Which Sony
       were you refering to Dave?
       I tried the Digitech TSR 24 (or GSP 2101) but I found it too complex
       to operate. But the bench tests were very positive about this one.

  I think that my budget will make this list shorter...
  This afternoon I will check out the prices for the midi patch, midi foot 
  controller and available 19" compressors, so that I can see what's left over.
  I will let you know.

  - Guus.

  BTW I read somewhere that once you start with a 19" rack, you'll keep spending
  money: one effect unit, add a mid patch, two effect units, buy a separate
  pre-amp, new stereo speaker set, new end-amp, etc.
  It's not my intention but I have to admit that untill so far, they were 
  right... 

    I don't own a DP/4.  I did put some money down on one, but at the
    time I couldn't really afford it.
    
    I now have a GSP-2102 (and am selling a Roland GP-16).
    
    I know with great certainly that the DP/4 can provide you with
    a compressor that comes before the pre-amp but I'd be very surprised
    if it could do the channel switching part for you.
    
    I think it may be hard to find something with all the combination of
    features you want.   
    
    A lot of these units do have an external send that you could use
    for your pre-amp, but usually the pre-amp send is either at the
    beginning or the end of the chain.   Putting it in the middle
    requires an extra set of ADCs and DACs (somewhat expensive).
    
    My advise - if you can't find any one thing that does it all, by
    a compressor separately and then you can pretty much pick the unit
    you want according to other preferences like sound, flexibility,
    MIDI, etc.
    
    There are some pretty decent compressors out there for well under $200.
    
    	db

    re the dp4
    
    	Doesn't it take a real long time to change patches?
    Like a couple of seconds, which is not really acceptable.
    
    P.K.