Conference napalm::guitar

    I always thought these were kinda cool too, but the balance seemed to
    be off (neck heavy).  I tend to like Explorers a bit better.  That's a
    guitar I've always wanted and never managed to actually purchase.  I
    wouldn't mind having a 'bird either, but they seem harder to find.
    
    So Rick?  How many do you have?
    
    Greg

    That's a good point about these being neck heavy; it's not bad
    on the guitars, but really annoying on the bass models.  My solution
    was to hook the strap over the edge of the upper-rear horn.  Looked
    stupid, worked great.
    
    At one time or another I've owned both reverse and non-reverse (more
    on these later) versions of both guitars and basses.  My current entry
    is a non-reverse Thunderbird II, but I'm always on the lookout for more :-)
    
    /rick

    Didn't Gibson recently reissue the guitars?  How do they compare to the
    originals?
    
    Dave

    A reverse 'bird would certainly enhance my collection.  All this Gibson
    talk makes me wish I still had my Melody Maker and the '62 SG I used to
    have.  Think I'll bring the Les Paul to the next jam; Stormy Monday's
    will apreciate a little 'creamy' tone after all that BITE we subjected
    'em to last monday! Yeah, I need *more* sustain; maybe I can hang a
    ringing note for 2 or 3 verses....Fed, bring that PV again!
    
    Steve Gibson

    Re: .3
    
    Gibson's reissues of 'Birds have not been as obsessive as Fender's. On
    T-Birds, for instance, the 1976 reissues had updated bridges (and a
    legendary predisposition for neck warping).  The late 80s reissues have
    new pickups and new bridges. There were even some Epiphone Firebirds
    sold a couple of years ago with Steinberger tremelos (??!!) that were
    rumored to be total dogsh*t.
    
    Without being able to A/B a current T-Bird with a 60s model, I think
    the new T-Birds seem to recapture the sound and feel pretty well.  It's
    a nice rock bass, because it cuts through with lots of treble but also
    has this grinding thing happening in the bottom that's real
    distinctive.  I've always wanted one (might be the *coolest* looking
    bass ever), but at about $900 new they are a bit overpriced for what
    you get.  It doesn't strike me as a good general purpose bass like a
    P-Bass.  If anyone sees one in Heather Poly finish (a light purple
    offered for about one nanosecond a few years ago) I might break down,
    though 8^)  8^)
    
    I recall a brief reissue of the Firebird VII around 1972 (I remember
    seeing one in a music store in Troy, NY), anyone know about those?
    
    There are also some Ibanez 'Birds out there.  Back in the mid 70s,
    before getting sued by Gibson, they had faithful repros of the Flying
    V, 59 LP, etc. and also did a Firebird (no T-Bird) in that series.
    
    							Brian

    There were several small runs of reverse Firebird re-issues in the
    early 70's; I recall a Firebird V and Firebird VII.  These had medallions
    on them identifying them as special limited re-issues.
    
    In 1976, Gibson did a major bird re-issue series, the Bicentennial
    re-issues.  These were noted for special red-white-and-blue bird logos
    on the pickguard (the original Firbirds had a red bird logo, the T-birds
    a black one).  There were two models, a guitar and a bass.  The guitar
    was a weird conglomeration of features from the original reverse series;
    unbound dot rosewood board, two pickups, gold hardware, stop TP with TOM
    (none of the original birds had this).  The bass was a fairly faithful
    repro of a reverse T-bird IV.  I owned one of the basses for several years
    but never really got comfortable with it and never liked any of the
    others I played either.  Also a similar experience with the guitars.
    They were okay, but just didn't seem like real birds; that bicentennial
    logo was the pits too.  Interestingly, '76 re-issues have achieved some
    collector status and currently trade above their original value, in the
    low $1xxx's.  Not really worth the money, imo.
    
    More recently, the new Gibson started doing re-issues in the late 80's.
    There's a fairly faithful Firebird V repro, accurate except again for the
    stop TOM bridge; not a bad idea really, this was a common player's mod. 
    The body shapes are a very subtly different from the originals, a bit
    clunkier in spots; it looks like the difference between handmaking them
    and taking mass-production shortcuts.  The pickups are also overwound
    compared to the originals, yielding a muddier tone.  Nevertheless, these
    feel to me like better guitars than the '76 series; they really have that
    bird vibe.  The basses are T-bird IV repros, but with black hardware.
    I like these very much, certainly way better than the '76's; again, not
    an entirely accurate repro, but they capture the feel very well.  I'd
    recommend these recent re-issues for someone interested in getting
    into a bird relatively cheaply.

    So, Rick,
    
    do you happen to know anything about Gibson Firebirds?
    
    8)

    Yeah, 'Birds!
    
    Way-y-y back when, I did a clenup job on a Reverse I; the turkey had
    attempted to add a pickup at the neck, by CARVING THE AREA OUT WITH 
    A CHISEL!!! I cleaned up what I could, but it was butchered pretty
    badly...
    
    I owned one of those Ibanez 'Birds. Not too bad, a nice replica, except
    for the neck was bolted on and not a thru-style. 
    
    A good playing buddy of mine had a T'bird bass. What a great bass tone!
                                                                          
    If'n I ever get the chance, I want a F'bird and a T'bird - awesome
    R'n'R instruments!
    
    Bill

    Hey Steve, I can picture you with a nice reverse V, cranking out Rock'n
    Roll Hoochie Coo at the next Stormy Monday's jam.  You NEED one of
    these!
    
    /rick_deranger

   >> Hey Steve, I can picture you with a nice reverse V
    
    me too!

    Man, is that drool I feel coming out of the side of my mouth?
    
    gh

    >>Man, is that drool I feel coming out of the side of my mouth?
    
    I know, I know; I wish Rick hadn't started all this Firebird talk,
    dammit.  I miss my SG's.....I want a 'bird....8*(
    
    

    Well-known 'Bird users:
    
    guitarists:
    
    Johnny Winter (reverse V)
    Steve Stills (reverse I)
    Dave Mason (reverse I)
    Eric Clapton (reverse I for a few seconds in the late 60s...can be
    spotted on the cover of "Live Cream" and snippets of the Albert Hall
    video)
    Brian Jones (reverse and non-reverse models)
    Allen Collins (reverse V)
    Steve Winwood (non-reverse V, seen on UK cover of "Last Exit")
    Sonny Landreth (reverse V)
    
    bassists:
    
    John Entwistle (both reverse and non-reverse, plus "Fenderbird"
    hybrids)
    Overend Watts  (reverse IV) 
    Leon Wilkeson  (non-reverse IV)
    Nikki Six (reverse reissue)
    Glenn Cornick (reverse IV)
    Rick Calcagni
    
    							Brian

    I've seen Dave Mason with a two pickup with Bigsby (non-original);
    not sure if this was a III or a I with pickup added (another common
    mod).
    
    Sonny Landreth plays a III; at least that's what's pictured on the
    jackets of his two recent releases (dot neck).  Also has a Badass
    1-piece bridge/tailpiece added, a common mod for I's and III's.
    The stock bridges on these are that non-adjustable, pre-intonated
    ladder thing; it would probably work ok, except these are set up
    for a wound G string and an unwound G sounds way off.
    
    Brian Jones' two birds were both VII's, a reverse and a non-reverse.
    I've seen a picture of Mick Taylor playing non-rev VII in a later shot with
    the Stones; probably Brian's.
    
    Phil Manzanera used a V or VII (I forget) in Cardinal Red, a great color
    for one of these.
    
    Felix Pappalardi used both rev and non-rev T-bird II's; Jack Bruce is
    also rumored to have played a T-bird for a while (never saw a picture
    though).
    
    Actually, tons of players have been photographed with one of these at
    one time or another (except, strangely, Brian Rost); mostly no doubt
    just because they look so cool.  I even remember a publicity shot of
    Thunderclap Newman drummer Speedy Keen holding a bird.

    So Rick, 
    
    after studying Firebird/Gibson trivia all day, what do you do with the 2
    or 3 hours left open, izzat when you sleep/eat?
    
    8^)

    Last year I was in Gruhn's playing a Heather Poly Firebird VII that was
    indescribably cool and sounded outrageous, too. When I got home I
    called George to buy it and found out that it had been scarfed already.
    Rats!
    
    Danny W.

    re .14
    
    It's bad enough you remember Thunderclap Newman, never mind his
    drummer! Another Brian Rost wannabe, I guess. 

    Maybe we can hook Brain, Rick and Danny up with Jeopardy's Alex Tribec
    (sp), eh?
    
    8)

    Ok ok, I get the picture :-)  hey, no mystery, this is just the result
    of 25 years of intense bird-watching.  Whenever my eye catches a
    glimpse of one of those cool shark-fin pickguards, the radar goes up.
    
    Thunderclap Newman came up because Brian just lent me the CD.  Great
    minds think alike eh?
    
    :-)))

    
    	I've always wanted to get a 'Bird; to my ears, there is no other
    guitar better suited to playing slide. Silvertones come close, but
    the Firebirds get the perfect, raunchy sound for slide. I've primarily
    stuck with Strats for playing slide, but a Firebird has always been on 
    my "going-to-buy-one-of-these-days" list. Who knows, maybe I'll have 
    one to slide away on at the next Stormy Monday DECjam....
    
    
    Brad

    re:-1
    
    Brad,
    
    
    i'll bring my LP my next trip up....may i have the honor of you
    gracing it's fretboard with your slide lix?  It's got mini-humbuckers!
    
    dawg

    I cut my teath on a 1967 Firebird I. This was not a reversed style
    Bird. I stupidly traded it into a music store for a cheap acoutic
    around 1973. I really wish I had that guitar back.
    
    Some day I'll buy another !
    
    Mark
    

    >I stupidly traded it into a music store for a cheap acoutic
    >around 1973.
    
    
    
    I HATE it when that happens!  I parted with my old SG that way in 1978. 
    I think I got like $200 on trade in for a Yamaha acoustic.....dam! 
    Thank goodness I've kept my Les Paul, or my Gibson glands would be real
    swollen.....
    
    Live and learn....

     Yeah, well I traded an original '63 Firebird VII (cost me $375 used)
     with gold hardware, ebony fretboard, block inlays, "fretless wonder"
     frets, 3 pickups, engraved tailpiece, in mint shape, for a piece-of-
     shite Les Paul Deluxe sunburst w/large humbuckers, large frets, and a
     baseball bat neck........and I hate fat necks and big frets. 

     DOH!

     Neal-stupid

re: .22, .24

Know what you mean...I *hate* seeing what old Fender Jaguars go for
nowadays. :-)

Maybe we should start a note for stupid things we wish we hadn't done.
We could call it the 20/20 hindsight note.

-Hal

    re: -1
    
    Neal,
    
    
    YOU WIN!
    
    8)

    Stupid stuff....
    
    In the past I have owned and parted with several 1960's SG's, a 1974
    Gold Top Les Paul deluxe, a blonde Rickenbacker Thin Line Hollow Body elec 6
    string with 3 pickups (can't remember model, but it was sweet!)......
    
    I've gone from young and stupid to old and stupid....
    
    8) or 8(, I'm not sure anymore!
    
    dawg

>    a 1974 Gold Top Les Paul deluxe
    
    Hey, that's what I play all the time!  Great guitar, I'll never get rid
    of it.  I saw another one like it in a store today (with *severe*
    finish checking on the top) and they were askin $950 for it.  Ouch!
    
    gh

    I miss anyone mentioning Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown? Doesn't he play one
    with a f-ugly custom leather pickguard?

    He was the first to come to my (narrow) mind.  He also has one of the
    strangest styles of playing I have ever seen.
    
    Later,
    
    RJ

    Okay, to pick up where I left off in .0 (30 replies later)...
    
    In early 1965, Gibson re-designed the Firebird and Thunderbird series;
    this second generation is commonly referred to as the "non-reverse"
    birds.  The rumor is that change was in response to lawsuit threats
    from Fender, saying that the Firebirds were too close to Fender's own
    solidbody line.  I've never seen this officially acknowledged by either
    company though.  If true, it's pretty funny because while you would
    never mistake a reverse bird for a Fender, the re-designed non-reverse
    ones look very Fender'ish indeed.  Another reason (this one official,
    I think) is that the re-design was to allow easier, cheaper manufacture;
    no doubt there is some truth to this.
    
    The body style on the second generation birds was sort of a flipped
    over version of the reverse series; from a distance, you might mistake
    it for a Fender Jaguar.  Overall construction went from nine-ply neck
    through with body wings to a simple one piece mahogany neck set into
    a one piece mahogany body.  Banjo tuners were no longer used, nickel
    hardware went to chrome, the necks got narrower (typical of neck
    changes in all Gibson electrics at the time).
    
    The model designations also changed somewhat (note I only mention
    features as they add or change):
    
    	Firebird I	- 2 P-90's, short vibrola
           "     III	- 3 P-90's
           "     V	- 2 mini-humbuckers, long vibrola
           "     VII	- 3 mini-humbuckers, gold hardware
    
    I'm pretty sure all the necks were dot rosewood, unbound.  The basses
    followed the usual pattern, 1 or 2 pickup, and with the new body and
    neck style of course.
    
    Second generation birds were manufactured in quantities similar to the
    first generation for about three years, till 1967.  Production then tailed
    off to a trickle for the rest of the 60's.  There are some interesting
    transition birds, such as a reverse with normal tuners and P-90's. 
    There was also a short lived 12-string version in the non-reverse
    series; nice idea, but unfortunately the 6-on-a-side headstock design
    really doesn't look good on these.
    
    Second generation birds are much less valuable than their earlier
    brothers from a collector's standpoint, and not without good reason.
    The non-reverse birds are less fancy and ornate, less interesting
    design wise, and have a more mass-produced quality to them.  Nevertheless,
    most bird enthusiasts I know (me included) lust after both types; after
    all, a Firebird is still a Firebird!  You really need at least one of
    each type for any proper collection :-).  Except for the narrower necks
    (a matter of taste) these are still great players and good way to get
    into a "real" bird for low bucks.  I particularly like the P-90
    equipped versions; to my mind, 60's P-90 Gibsons are undervalued and
    underappreciated gems in the vintage market and great "player" guitars.
    On the bass side of things, many players actually prefer the
    non-reverse series over the earlier reverse ones for tone and playability.
    
    /rick

    Isn't there a current 'bird reissue available?  I coulda sworn I saw
    one in a mail order catalog not long ago.
    
    Greg

    
    Did Allen Collins from Lynyrd Skynyrd play Firebird?
    
    
    
    Hannu

     Re .32 - Yeah, the Firebird V has been reissued, but with a stop
     tailpiece in place of the vibrato tailpiece.
 
     Rick, are you sure about the 9-ply center piece? That's one thing I
     distinctly remember about my Firebird VII, the center piece was carved
     from one piece of mahogany. If it was laminated, I would have noticed.
     Maybe some were, but the one I had wasn't.

     Neal

    RE: Stupid things I've done...
    
    I could have bought a 1958, or 1959 Les Paul Deluxe for $75.00!!! It had
    been refinished, BUT it was done professionally. Gibson couldn't have 
    done a better job (I was 16 years old at the time FWIW). The worse
    part? It had...  yep, you guessed it, a broken headstock. The guy had
    glued it back, but told me that it would be more of a wallpiece than
    a usable guitar. My father then told me that, "a good deal is ONLY a
    good deal *if* you can use it". At the time his advice seemed logical,
    but I've been kicking myself ever since. Then there was my 1964 Gibson
    EB3-L that I sold for $125.00!! I've kicked myself for that too! I have
    since learned that I will not sell any of my guitars!
    
    
    Ofcourse my wife would like me to sell a few, but heck, everybody
    should have toys right? Anyone looking for a '69 Strat for $200.00??
    
    
    				Only kidding! 
    
    			
    				April fool!
    	    
    
    		Rock on,
    			Fred (who's only kidding about the Strat)

    RE: .33
    
    Hannu,
    
    He sure did - I'm suprised it wasn't mentioned in here already!
    
    jc

    re .34
    
    Yes, the nine-piece neck was a standard feature of the reverse
    Firebird and Thunderbird series.  It's actually layed out as
    three fairly large sections with two narrow three-piece stringers
    on either side of the center piece.  Most reverse birds are like
    this.
    
    That said, I have seen a few early '63 Firebirds that had two
    piece necks.  At first glance, these even look like one-piece; you
    really have to look closely for the seam.  It's also entirely possible
    that Gibson did put one-piece necks on a few birds, probably very early
    or very late in the series.  I've never seen a one-piece reverse bird
    neck documented though.
    
    Gibson is noted for a lot of subtle variations and one-ofs in their
    instruments, certainly during the 60's.  (Maybe Danny can comment?).
    It seems for almost any rule you can say about these, there's a
    legitimate factory original example that will violate it.
    
    /rick

    I remember reading in a Rolling Stone magazine a few years ago that
    the original Thunderbird Bass used by Chris Squire on "The Yes Album"
    was being auctioned off. For years I thought the bass lines on that
    album were done with a Rickenbacker bass. He had that clicky sound
    that I've always associated with Ricks.
    
    Any thoughts on this?
    
    Mark
    

   Well, Squire *does* use a pick (actually a filed-down British "pence"
   piece, if memory serves), and T-birds do get that growly sound, so it may
   just be an auditory illusion.  (I always thought he used a Rick too, if
   that means anything.)  A friend has one of the new reissue T-birds (he's
   actually a noter in here, but has been on vacation since this topic
   started), I've played it, I play bass with a pick, and that thing does get
   a specific, snarly sound.  Wouldn't mind having one myself, but I'm already
   up to 7 guitars, 3 of which are basses.  I'll probably just settle for
   putting EMG stacked humbuckers in my Ibanez 5 string.  :-)

   -- Sam
   

    I mentioned earlier that T-birds do have a bit of a Rick quality to them,
    so it makes sense that Chris Squire would be into one of these. 
    Compare the sound of the walking bass section of "Yours Is No Disgrace"
    with say, "Roundabout" from Fragile.  The latter is clearly a Rick, the
    former I'd guess a T-bird.

re: .38

>    For years I thought the bass lines on that
>    album were done with a Rickenbacker bass. He had that clicky sound
>    that I've always associated with Ricks.
    
Jeez, I'd always assumed it was a Rickenbacker as well.  I figured
it was the stereo being sent to a "bassy" amp and a "trebly" amp.
Of course, you could probably do the same thing with a Y cord. :-)

-Hal

    But dude, it's a lot more fun to buy a cool bass then to buy a stinkin
    Y-cord!!!
    
    Greg

re: .42

>    But dude, it's a lot more fun to buy a cool bass then to buy a stinkin
>    Y-cord!!!
    
No kidding!  Personally, though, I get in trouble with studio
gear ("what was wrong with the *old* mixer!!!").

    
    
    I've had what I thought was "Les Paul Fevor" steadily for the last 
    several months and have been saving my pennies for "treatment". 
    Now I'm wondering if I've been misdiagnosed. Perhaps it is some 
    type of "Firebird separation anxiety" that is ailing me ?!?!
    
    If I end up buying a Firebird it'll be Rick Calcagni's fault
    for starting this note.
    
    Mark
      

    I've never seen Chris Squire use anything but Ricks from the 1st album
    on until he starting playing pointy things when Trevor Rabin came along.
    If someone was auctioning off something other than a Rick and said
    Chris played it on whatever song way back when, I'd say he was eather
    full of shit, or the Bass was only used in the studio by him on a rare
    occasion.  Eather way the thing wouln't be worth a lot.
    

    I'll look for the magazine tonight. As I recall, the bass was being
    auctioned off by Southbees or one of the other large auction houses
    that specializes in memorabila. I seem to recall the starting price
    was around $5500.
    
    Of course, I could be totally wet. Those brain cells are a bit
    rusty.
    
    Mark (BTW, "The Yes Album" was my favorite "driving" album for years.
          "Starship trooper, comes sailing on by.......")
    
    

What is the going price for an original reverse Firebird?

Jim

    If you have to ask how much they cost

Again, what is the going price for a reverse Firebird?

Jim

    Depending on the model & condition, from $2k to $7.5k
    
    Danny W.

    A perfect lead in to a reply I was planning on entering anyway:
    
    Reverse VII - top of the line, the one high end collectors go for
      (Mac Yasuda has a matched pair, one lefty and one righty).  Gruhn
      advertised one a couple of years ago for $12,500 but I believe he
      was just trying to test the market.  Typically $7k-$8k in Tobacco
      Sunburst, as much as double in a custom color.
    
    Reverse V - this is THE ONE!  The best bird imo from both a player and
      a cosmetic view.  The trapezoid inlays and long vibrola look perfect
      on this instrument; they should hang one of these at the Museum of
      Modern Art.  Around $5K in Sunburst.
    
    Reverse III - Essentially a V, but with dot inlays and a different
      bridge/vibrola.  The best value for a player, usually around $2500.
      Also a slight advantage over the V in that you can add stop tailpiece
      (using a Badass) without modification; a V would require some hacking.
      They produced more of these than the other models, and you see more
      of them on the market.  You have to decide if the inlays and fancier
      bridge/vibrola on the V are really worth an extra $2500.
    
    Reverse I - More popular than the III, maybe cause Clapton played
      one???  Prices on these vary, I've seen them $2k-$3k in Sunburst.
    
    Non-rev VII - The only non-reverse with collector appeal.  Very few
      were made (like maybe 50).  Still, highest price I've seen on one
      was $5k for a custom color.
    
    Other non-reverses - typically trade around $1000, plus or minus a few
      hundred.  Great values (relatively speaking).
    
    Reverse T-birds - Around $3k for the IV, around $2k for the II, again
      plus or minus a few hundred.
    
    Non-rev T-birds - I've yet to see one over $1000.  Typically fantastic
      players once you get used to the neck dive.
    
    All the above prices are for clean instruments with unbroken necks. 
    You can deduct about 1/2 for headstock repair and/or refin.  If you see
    a refin, almost guaranteed it covers a headstock repair anyway.
    
    /overdone_watts

    re: -1
    
    I guess that means I couldn't swap my strat for one....... 8(
    
    Re: .44
    
    I know!  All this talk has got me dreamin' 'bout owning a 'bird. 
    Sheesh, GTS is a weird disease.....
    
    Fire_birdawg

	Let's talk some more about the reissue birds currenly being
    made by Gibson. Are they making V's, VII's or both ? What is the
    average selling price with hardshell case for a new FireBird ?
    What colors are available?

	BTW, Heritage is making their own Firebird replica. It's
    called a H357. It has an unbound dot neck, 2 dual coil hummers,
    and a stop tailpiece. This is a reverse style guitar but does
    not have banjo tuners (they appear to be Grover mini's). Looks
    pretty cool, but I'd rather have a Gibson. These do not have
    a Firebird on the pickgaurd (for obvious reasons).  
    
        I was reading through the latest issue of "Vintage Guitar" 
    magazine this weekend and I noticed quite a few Firebirds for 
    sale. Some of the ads indicated that neck repairs had been done. 
    Some mentioned refinish. Many were missing the Gibson logo. 
    Prices ranged from about $600 to $1200. One dealer listed a new 
    cherry Red Firebird reissue for $600. Sounded like a pretty good 
    deal.
    
    	The wheels have been turning inside my head since I read .0
    
    	I WANT A FIREBIRD NOW !!!!
     

	Mark

    Gibson has been making Custom Shop editions of the I & VII as well as
    the standard reissue. The I should sell for around $800, the VII for
    $1300.
    
    Danny W.

     The WantADvertiser had a used antique sunburst reissue Firebird V
     for $500 a few weeks ago. The ad was in for quite awhile. I had just
     bought a used '62 SG reissue, so I couldn't pull the trigger on it.
     There was a white? one in there also, but I forget the price.

     Neal

    These are pretty reasonable prices for such cool guitars. I definately
    see myself buying one eventually. 
    
    Mark
    
    
    

    Cambridge Music in Porter Square had two V style re-issues in stock,
    either brand new or mint used.  One was black, the other red.
    
    One of the nicer re-issue colors (imo) is the Vintage Cherry, a la
    60's SGs.  They were actually some original reverse birds in this finish;
    very rare (and of course expensive).
    
    Anyone recall seeing G.E. Smith's re-issue bird on SNL?  It's sorta purple
    sparkle with a black guard; didn't do much for me.

	I demoed a new Firebird V today at Centre Music in Framingham.
    The salesdude plugged it into a Peavey classic 4x10 amp. The tuners 
    being back-asswords would definately take a little getting used to. 
    I also noticed that the volume and tone pots are reversed from the 
    way that Gibson normally does things. That is, the vol/tone for the 
    neck pickup is *below* the vol/tone for the lead pickup. 
    
        I was able to get some really nice tones happening especially 
    on the neck pickup. The Firebird pickups seem to be a little sweeter 
    than the standard Gibson Humbucker. The bound neck has a really nice 
    feel to it. Overall, I loved everything except the color of this 
    particular Bird! It's creme colored. It's a pretty nice color, 
    but it just doesn't float my boat! I'd prefer sunburst, cherry,
    or *gold*. I've got a 1993 Vintage guitar calendar hanging in my 
    office and the December picture includes a *gold* Firebird VII.
    It appears to be the same "Bullion Gold" found on LP goldtops. This 
    is a really nice color on this model. It's probably a custom shop
    special. I'll be looking at this picture for the entire month of
    December. If I don't buy a Firebird by the end of the month, it's
    gonna be a miracle.
    
        Mark

    Maaaarrrrk!
    
    How MUCH is the dam thang?
    
    my palms are sweating...........
    
    dawg

    Dawgmeister,  Centre Music is asking ~$850 for the Firebird VII 
    including hsc.  I think I'll hold out for a used one.  
    
    	Mark

    >>Dawgmeister,  Centre Music is asking ~$850 for the Firebird VII......
    
      :*(

     Did he quote you a price for the Firebird V in antique sunburst?
     
     Neal

    Gil Southworth (301-718-1667) has a 1985 Heather Poly VII that is
    either the one I played at Gruhn's (see earlier reply) or its twin (I
    think they made three). Claims it's mint and wants $1500. I'm really
    tempted, but while I'm agonizing over it, feel free to grab it so I
    don't have to make a decision.
    
    Danny W.

    Was just watching the Traffic movie from 1972 the other night and there
    was Steve Winwood wrangling that light-greenish Firebird V of
    his...ooh, mama! 
    
    I remember seeing them on that tour when they hit New Haven, CT and
    that guitar looked so cool.  Sounded good, too (Howcum noone ever
    thinks of Steve when they start naming cool Brit-blooz-blasters.  That
    solo on "Stevie's Blues" is genuine proto-Marshall-meltdown, and he was
    only 16 for chrissakes!), even if he was cranking an Acoustic 260
    (!!!)...hey, Albert King liked that amp, too....hmmm....
    
    							Brian

    re .63
    
    Danny, I thought of you when I saw that Heather Poly VII listed.  Please
    buy it before I do something foolish!
    

    From this weeks want-ads:
    
    	Gibson Firebird. Sunburst, 3 years old, all orig. 
     	Exc cond   $725. 
    
    	Gibson Thunderbird bass, 1993, new w/hardshell case  $550
     
    	Howz this for a plan:
    
    	    Danny buys the Heather poli VII
    
    	    I buy the sunburst Firebird.
    
    	    Rick Calcagni buys the Thunderbird (that is if Brian 
    	    Rost doesn't get there first.
    
    	    Gentlemen, start your checkbooks!!
    
    
    	    
    
    
      
    

    What model of Gibson guitar do Slash play? And how much it cost?

>    What model of Gibson guitar do Slash play? And how much it cost?
    
    Slash plays Gibson Les Pauls most of the time.  They cost anywhere from
    about $1200-$1800 (US) to purchase new.
    
    Greg

    My passed question is kinda dum, I'm mean what year are his Les paul
    made and what model#? I wanna know 'cause alot of les paul are look a
    like if some people like me don't really know what type is most popular
    one.
    
    Thanks.
    
    
                                                                   

    
    
    Hey, Klo - I bet there's a Les Paul topic or two in here that might be
    more appropriate for your discussion -- it'll make the info easier to
    find for future fans of the slasher...
    
    

    I've noticed lately that the guitarist in the Max Weinberg 7 (Conan
    Obrien show) has been using a reverse Firebird on and off; tobacco
    sunburst, either a re-issue (probably) or a *very* clean V with stop
    TP mod.  You can really hear that aggressive tone cutting through on
    the commercial break tunes.
    
    /world's_most_dangerous_bassist

    It's funny that you mentioned that because I saw the beginning part
    of the show last night and noticed the Sunburst Firebird as well.
    I also noticed the great tone going into the commercial break. My
    guess is it's a reissue.
    
    They definately look better when someone is playing them than they
    do hanging on a wall!!
    
    Mark  (what's with this Max Weinberg guy, anyways).
    

	Since Santa didn't bring me a Firebird, I had no choice but to 
    go out and buy one myself. I ended up buying the sunburst "V" that
    was in the Want Advertizer. This guitar is in excallant condition.
    The sunburst finish is beautifully applied and the wood grain is
    nicely figured. The "skunkstripe" is clearly visible from the tip
    of the headstock to the endpin. I'm really glad I got sunburst in
    stead of a solid color. It would be a shame to hide this pretty
    hunk of wood. 

	The deal included a brown hardshell case with pink lining. This
    is without a doubt the largest guitar case I have ever seen for a 
    solid bodied guitar. The accessory compartment is huge. I honestly 
    believe that Johnny Winters could fit inside this case :^) 
    
	This guitar plays great and sounds outrageous, especially 
    through the new (reissue) Deluxe Reverb amp. It is 100% stock.
    The guy that sold it to me also included a Schaller fine-tuning
    tailpiece complete with bushings. I have no intentions of using
    this tailpiece, at least not on this guitar. 

    	All in all, I'm delighted with this purchase. It's almost
    as if I've got my old Firebird I back. Now all I need is a Les
    Paul and my collection will truely be complete  ;^)
    
	Mark

    Hey Mark, this is scary.  Santa didn't bring me a Firebird either, so
    I had to take matters into my own hands as well.  Only I got a gorgeous
    vintage cherry instead of a burst!  I always had a weakness for that deep
    transparent cherry Gibson finish, and it really looks great on a bird.
    Like the sunburst, you can clearly see the mahogany grain and neck laminations.  
    Mine's also all original, mint shape, and sounds killer.  It was 'born'
    in '90, the same year as my son, so I think I'll eventually give it to
    him when he's older (after Dad breaks it in :-).
    
    Maybe we should get these together and see if they'll mate!
    
    /rick_havin_a_rockin_new_year
    

    Re: last two
    
    Sheesh...you guys are weakening my self-control...
    
    Over the holidays I saw a pic of Sonic Youth bassist Kim Gordon with a
    76 reissue T-Bird in a transparent brown (NOT sunburst) finish.  Which
    suddenly reminded me of one of those I saw at Brian Guitars in New
    Haven, CT fifteen years ago and lusted after in my heart.  The only
    thing keeping me from running to a Gibson dealer (so far, anyway) and
    begging for a fix is knowing that my joy would be short lived when
    later that night my wife would slit my throat  8^) 
    
    Hey, which is better?
    
    	1. Having the kitchen remodeled
    
    	2. Sending your kids to college
    
    	3. Jamming on Mott the Hoople tunes with a T-Bird
    
    Hey Rick, now you need another T-Bird to keep that 6-string company 8^)
    
    							Brian

    Brian, that also sounds exactly like the '76 re-issue T-bird I used to own.
    If it's any consolation, mine was a dog.
    

    Did I tell you guys about my '85 '355. I did? Oh well, never mind...
    
    Danny W.

Jeez, all of a sudden my life seems rather boring.

    -1
    
    You've got that Plexi Marshall top so shut up already!
    ;')

    I got a neat picture of a Bird for Christmas.  My Bro-in-law bought me
    TWO Johnny Winter CD's...."Let Me In" and .....uh I forgot
    already..."Scorching Blues" I think....I have'nt even got to listen to
    'em yet!  Anyway, neat pic of JW and the Bird on the liner.
    
    wish I had one......
    
    8(

    
    	Well, I went the other way.  Sold my '62 ES335 to the guy
    	who sold it to me.  He's called and begged over the years
    	to buy it back and I finally gave in.  I know I'll regret
    	it but since he'll play it and it was just sitting in my
    	closet, I figured I'd let it go back to a good home.
    
    	Btw, he's a terrific guitar repairman - Martin certified.
    	He's out in Western Mass - Holyoke and does most of the
    	repairs for that area's stores including Amherst and Northampton.
    
    	Let me know if anyone wants more info.
    
    	Tom
    

    Hey, Tom, now you got the money for a Firebird  8^)
    
    							

    
    	Actually, it paid for my GR-1, Christmas, 4 days at Waterville
    	Valley, my SO's birthday, and part of Cozumel... ;^)
    
    	But where is that Want Ad?
    

     Re - all

     Did I tell you guys about my '63 Reverse Firebird VII w/triple
     pu's, engraved tailpiece, deluxe banjo tuners, all gold plated,
     ebony fretboard, mother-of-pearl block inlays, fretless wonder
     micro frets??.........

     (picture head hitting desktop repeatedly)
     			   wham   wham wham wham        

     that I traded for a '70shite Les  Paul Deloser...aaaaaahhhhhhhhh  wham

     ugh

     Neal %^)
     

    Yeah Neal, you did. But here, since you brought it up, let me help you

                wham wham wham wham wham wham wham wham

    :^)

    Neal,
    
    read my Pname........
    
    dawg

     			wham

    Speaking of Firebirds, poking through my records over the holidays
    I came across what I consider one of the all-time classic Firebird tone
    albums; "Johnny Winter And Live".  If you ever needed to be convinced
    why players sometimes get irrational over these beasts, this album will
    do it.  The contrast is especially noticable next to Rick Derringer,
    who was using a vintage ES-355 on this date; ordinarily no slouch itself
    in the tone dept but remarkably muddy next to Johnny's screaming bird.
    It's a gas.
    

    I now have learned why I liked the moldy oldie "The Last Kiss" by J.
    Frank Wilson and the Cavaliers (??) so much when I first heard it.  
    Saw a promo shot of the buys and I'll be darned if they weren't holding
    a T-Bird II and Firebird V in the pic... 
    
    							Wolfman

    regarding .70  Guitarist on the Conin Obrien Show:
    
    The latest issue of "Twentieth Century Guitar" includes an interview 
    with "Tony Vivino", guitarist for the Max Weiberg 7.  Tony's picture 
    is on the cover. He has a long history of session work, mainly in the 
    New York area. His weapon of choice is a '50s  Les Paul Custom  with
    Alnico P-90's, but he also uses the Firebird on the show occasionally.
     
    By the way, it turns out that Max Weinberg was the drummer for Bruce 
    Springsteens "E Street Band".
     
    Mark
    

    yeah, check out the number of Springsteen tunes they play for breaks
    
    So did he say whether the bird was a re-issue or not?

    Actually, he was the third (and last) drummer for the E-street band.
    "Mighty" Max replaced Ernest "Boom" Carter, who replaced Vinnie
    "Mad Dog" Lopez.

    >"Mighty" Max replaced Ernest "Boom" Carter, who replaced Vinnie "Mad
    >Dog" Lopez.
    
    Poor "Boom" musta had a short career, then, seeing as how both Max and
    Vinnie appeared on "Born To Run"...
    
    							Stix Hooper

    
    	Always liked Vinnie alot more.  The double bass work on Greetings
    	from Asbury park and Wild & Innocent were great!  Check out
    	Kitty's Back for some great drumming.  
    
    	So, Brian.  What has he done since?  
    
    

    Nothing that I know of other than place some ads in national music
    magazines saying he was available for work.
    
    What does this have to do with Firebirds?
    
    							Brian

    
    	Geez, Brian - I thought you knew everything!!  Didn't you know
    	that "I'm on Fire" and "Fire" were about his passion playing
    	this note's favorite 6-string??
    
    	And, as I'm sure everyone else knows, "Thunder Road" describes
    	his detour into playing bass for a short time!!
    
    	I'm truly disappointed in you, Bri'...
    

    Look out, T-Bird in *gold* finish in the WantAds, $650...
    
    							Overend

    Although I am now a savvy collector who knows everything there is to
    know about vintage guitars,  I have sometimes made a decision that
    turned out to be less than prudent. One that I remember happened almost
    exactly 30 years ago (so that would be "Oh, What a night, late
    December, back in '63"). 
    
    At that time I played five nights a week and did studio sessions on
    weekends, and my main guitar for that was (of course) an ES 355. Much
    of the playing I did really needed a solidbody and I didn't have a good
    one, so I stopped in at Manny's and spent the afternoon trying guitars.
    I was down to three possibilities: a sunburst Firebird VII, a white LP
    (SG) Custom and a sunburst Fender Jaguar. I really liked the looks of
    the Firebird, but it didn't have enough "stuff" for me, especially
    since it had a rare stop tailpiece. The  sideways vibrato tailpiece on
    the LP Custom looked great, but didn't work well and it also didn't
    have enough stuff. The Jaguar, with its separate lead/rhythm circuits,
    multitude of switches, smooth-working vibrato, string mute and
    3-color sunburst was what got my heart racing and that's what I
    bought. It was actually a good choice, music-wise, since the New York
    studio scene required a Fender (though most players used Telecasters)
    and I used it (or sometimes a candy apple one) whenever I needed a
    Fender sound.
    
    When I sold it in the '70's, I could only get $175 and didn't get a
    phone call until I took the  word "Jaguar" out of the ad ("Fender
    Guitar for sale, call for details") Except for the first few years I
    had it, I kept thinking about what a jerk I was for not buying the
    Firebird, especially after Gibson "un-reversed" them.  Just so you
    know, the Firebird was the cheaper of the two guitars. If it had just
    had the Vibrola Tailpiece, I would have bought it.
    
    
    Danny W.

re: .98
    
>    When I sold it in the '70's, I could only get $175 and didn't get a
>    phone call until I took the  word "Jaguar" out of the ad ("Fender
>    Guitar for sale, call for details") Except for the first few years I
>    had it, I kept thinking about what a jerk I was for not buying the
>    Firebird, especially after Gibson "un-reversed" them.  Just so you
>    know, the Firebird was the cheaper of the two guitars. If it had just
>    had the Vibrola Tailpiece, I would have bought it.
    
And just to add insult to injury, old Jaguars go for a lot more money
than that nowadays.

-Hal (who kicks himself for selling his Jaguar cheap way back when)

    An sb Jag like that is probably worth about $800. Compared to the rise
    in value of other vintage guitars over the last 20 years, getting rid
    of the Jaguar then was a good idea. I used the money to help buy a '55
    Byrdland for $400, which would be worth $5000 today. I've sold lots of
    guitars that became worth more later--dealers do it every day. It's
    only annoying when you wish you had it back, and I don't.
    
    Danny W.

Yes, Danny, but do you reget not getting the Firebird and keeping it?

Jim

    Hey Danny, did that Firebird have a *stock* stop TP???  I don't think
    I've ever seen that on a vintage bird.
    
    /rick

    Rick, that question has bugged me for years. In 1963, I didn't think
    much of it. Firebirds were new and mostly ignored or reviled, and
    Gibson had frequently sold things that differed from the catalog
    description, so I assumed that the Vibrola was optional. Otherwise, I
    would have tried to find another one. It wasn't until later that I
    found out that they were all supposed to have it, and by that time the
    original one was gone, so I could take another look at it. It's very
    possible that someone had replaced the factory tailpiece--I wasn't as
    observant then as I am now and probably wouldn't have noticed a
    professional fill job on the holes--unless I had decided to buy it.
    
    Just to further prove that I wasn't as dumb as you might think, I
    worked all over New York until 1966 and never saw a single guitar
    player with a Firebird. 
    
    Danny W.

    Has anyone try the Gibson's Night Hawk yet? I saw one in Kurlant Music
    in worcester, it has small body. price $700.00 I asked. it is worth?
    
    KL
    

    Gil Southworth told me he sold the Heather Poly Firebird VII to Bill
    Kaman, of Ovation Musical Instruments. There must be a punchline to
    this, but I can't think of one.
    
    Danny W.

     Any of you guys see the Firebird Reissue for sale in the WantAD
     for $600?

     Neal-tempted-but-has-to-wait-until-after-the-June-stock-buy

    Here's my 'bird story from this year's Boston Guitar show.  On the way
    out I shared an elevator with a guy who had just bought a vintage
    T-bird.  It was a reverse body II (single pickup) in Inverness Green
    Metallic.  The finish was beat, it had a headstock repair (done
    poorly), and no case; he was just carrying it by the neck out to his car.
    I even remember this bass from last year's show.  But the thing had mojo.
    I heard him trying the bass out earlier in the day and it sounded great
    (of course).
    
    A chance encounter that ended my day at the show on an upbeat note.
    
    /ox

    You forgot the punch line: how much did he pay for it?

How many digits in the price tag, 4 or 5?

    I didn't ask him what he paid (I mean, how can you put a price on
    happiness :-) but I think the sticker was somewhere around $2k.
    Since it's been hanging around at least a year (same dealer had it
    last time) I'd guess he took it home for less.  Not a bad deal, really.
    

    
    	Well, as I mentioned before, I went to the Boston Guitar Show with
    my eyes open for Firebirds and Les Paul Gold Tops.
    
    	I thought as far as Firebirds go, the show was a dissapointment.
    There were very few Firebirds there this year compared to last year.
    This year there were just a few, and they were either old ones with
    BIG price tags (big for me, anyway) or new ones that didn't "move" me.
    
    	There were a few nice Gold Tops to look at. Quite a few were out of
    my price range again, and there was one dealer who had two that were
    pretty "iffy". I saw one with mini-humbuckers that I liked but the guy
    wasn't budging much on the price, and I didn't want to pay that ammount
    for one with mini-humbuckers.
    
    	So I had a good time looking, but ultimately left empty-handed.
    
    	Not to be out-done, though, I went to Daddy's in Nashua on Sunday.
    They had a 1991 cherry Firebird there. Originally tagged at $799, they
    were planning at selling it for $650 at their big "closed door" sale
    last night. I squeezed them down to $600, and walked out of there with
    a Firebird of my own! 
    
    
    	By the way, my friend who accompanied me to the Guitar Show bought
    an Ernie Ball Sting Ray bass from Mr. Music at the show. Nice bass!
    
    
    Gibson Firebrad
    

    Whoa Brad, congratulations!  You didn't find Johnny Winter hiding in
    the case, did you?
    

    Yo Firebrad, just out of curiosity, what were they getting for the
    gold-top Les Paul Deluxes (mini-buckers)?
    
    Greg (who plays one)

    > Whoa Brad, congratulations!  You didn't find Johnny Winter hiding in
    > the case, did you?
    
    
    	Sh*t! That's what that srawny white thing was! I thought one big
    pale Daddy-Long-Legs crawled into the case. I shoulda known by the
    tatoos...
    
    
    	The first concert I ever went to was a Johnny Winter show... maybe
    that's why I've had a longstanding interest in Firebirds. To my ears,
    it is *the* slide guitar. The only other guitar that compares is a
    lipstick pickup Silvertone.
    
    	Which reminds me.... does anyone know anything about those new
    Danelectro/Silvertone copies by Jerry Jones?
    
    
    

    
    >	Yo Firebrad, just out of curiosity, what were they getting for the
    > gold-top Les Paul Deluxes (mini-buckers)?
    
    > Greg (who plays one)
    
    
    	There was only one Deluxe Gold Top there; the guy had $950 on it.
    He wouldn't go lower than $900. That was more than I wanted to spend.
    
    	Personally, I like the sound of the mini-humbuckers; I think they
    get a unique, individual sound. I also think the Les Paul body shape
    looks nice with those little pickups. But from what I've been told, the 
    ones with the mini's are considered less collectible.
    
    
     

    They look cool. Is that what Joey  S P A M P A N A T O  is playing for a
    bass these days? I remember being 13 in Provincetown one summer and a
    band by the name of The Charlie Brown Generation was playing an
    afternoon set at a cafe/nightclub called the Hip Gazebo. Bass player had
    one of those long-horn models.

>    >	Yo Firebrad, just out of curiosity, what were they getting for the
>    > gold-top Les Paul Deluxes (mini-buckers)?
    
>    	There was only one Deluxe Gold Top there; the guy had $950 on it.
>    He wouldn't go lower than $900. That was more than I wanted to spend.
    
    Ouch...
    
>    	Personally, I like the sound of the mini-humbuckers; I think they
>    get a unique, individual sound. I also think the Les Paul body shape
>    looks nice with those little pickups. But from what I've been told, the 
>    ones with the mini's are considered less collectible.
    
    I wonder why that would be, there are less of them around.  I always
    thought the Deluxe was considered an upgrade to the Standard, but a
    step down from the Custom.  Am I off-base here?
    
    Greg

>    I wonder why that would be, there are less of them around.  I always
>    thought the Deluxe was considered an upgrade to the Standard, but a
>    step down from the Custom.  Am I off-base here?
    
     The Deluxe was a real down-grade from the '50's models and late '60's
     reissue of the GoldTop. The 1-pc mohogany body now 2-pc laminated, the
     1-pc neck now ~3 pcs, 2-pc maple top now many pcs and the seams could be
     seen through the finish, and was carved flatter, the headstock is as big
     as the LP Customs' headstock and the pitch shallower, many had a volute,
     the pu's are epiphone leftovers, die-cast, not steel, bridge and tail-pc
     w/chrome, not nickel, plating that had a tendency to peel, nylon bridge
     pcs. Let's see...have I left anything out? Oh yeah....they weigh a ton.
     I owned 2 of them, one with big humbuckers installed, but it didn't
     matter. They just didn't sound good. Norlin=CBS.

     Gibson actually reissued the Deluxe......WHY??

     Bad things man..bad things

     Neal

    If you're looking for the ultimate Firebird at a lower than premium,
    but still way expensive price, my old buddy Dave Hussong has one of the
    mates to the Heather Poly Firebird VII I mentioned awhile back, but
    this one is in Sunburst! 
    
    This guitar and several custom color ones were built recently by Gibson
    out of original Firebird parts that were found when they closed down
    the Kalamazoo plant. It would probably satisfy all but the most serious
    collector in terms of authenticity and vintage feel. From the pictures
    Dave sent me, it's choice. It's also $4k, which is more than I'd spend
    for one, but that's about half the cost of a '60's model. On the other
    hand the Heather Poly one sold recently for around $1500, which is what
    I offered Dave for the Sunburst. He laughed. Being old buddies only
    goes so far.
    
    
    Danny W.

    Are these new/old 'birds marked in any way to identify them as such.
    And are you saying the $1500 Heather Poly was one of these?????!
    

    The Heather Poly VII had a modern serial # and Custom Shop stamp. I
    don't know about the Sunburst--when I talk with Dave again, I'll ask
    him.
    
    And yes, the HP was supposedly one of these. Makes it seem like a
    bargain, doesn't it?. I can account for about a half dozen of these
    critters, so far. Some were assembled in 1985, another batch in 1991.
    They were mostly VII's complete with Vibrola tailpiece, though I've
    also seen several V's.
    
    Will these become as valuable as original ones.? Hard to say, but some
    reissued or custom models seem to have acquired their own
    mystique--witness the "Guitar Trader" bursts, for example.
    
    Danny W.

    re: Neal
    
>     The Deluxe was a real down-grade from the '50's models and late '60's
>     reissue of the GoldTop. The 1-pc mohogany body now 2-pc laminated, the
>     1-pc neck now ~3 pcs, 2-pc maple top now many pcs and the seams could be
>     seen through the finish, and was carved flatter, the headstock is as big
>     as the LP Customs' headstock and the pitch shallower, many had a volute,
>     the pu's are epiphone leftovers, die-cast, not steel, bridge and tail-pc
>     w/chrome, not nickel, plating that had a tendency to peel, nylon bridge
>     pcs. Let's see...have I left anything out? Oh yeah....they weigh a ton.
>     I owned 2 of them, one with big humbuckers installed, but it didn't
>     matter. They just didn't sound good. Norlin=CBS.

    Where did you get your information from?  Very little of this holds
    true for my Deluxe.  The body is 1 piece mahogany, no seam (it's got a
    transparent finish on the back so you'd be able to see it).  I can see
    no seams through the finish on the top.  It seems to have the same
    curve to the top as other Les Pauls I've played.  There is no volute. 
    The bridge and t-piece are nickle, not chromed nylon.  It doesn't weigh
    any more then any other Les Paul I've played.
    
    I'm not sure what you're talking about with the pickups.  Die-cast?
    
    Yes, it has a 3-piece maple, which I actually prefer because they cut
    them a little thinner then most LP necks, so it's not so
    baseball-battish.  It's been very stable over the 3 years I've had it. 
    
    Everyone that's played it says they love the feel and the sound of the
    guitar (including myself).
    
    I presumed it was an upgrade to the Standard, since it's got larger,
    nicer fretboard inlays.
    
    Greg
                           

     Greg, re-read my note. I thought it was pretty clear. I get the feeling
     you're confusing the Standard with the Studio or some other model.

     Neal

>     Greg, re-read my note. I thought it was pretty clear. 
    
    Apparently not clear to me.  All I read was a bunch of complaints,
    almost none of which apply to my guitar of the same model I thought you
    were describing.
    
>    I get the feeling you're confusing the Standard with the Studio or some
>    other model.
    
    I don't think so, I know what a Standard is.  Dot inlays, nickle
    hardware, full sized humbuckers.
    
    And I know what a Studio is.  A budget model, no maple top, no binding
    on either the body or the fretboard, dot inlays, full sized humbuckers.
    
    Greg

    Except for the pickups, the Standard and the Deluxe are the same
    guitar. The changes made in 1971 were across the board and not confined
    to the Deluxe. Since then, models with both types of pickups have been
    made that were more faithful to the original Les Paul models.
    
    Recent Deluxes are just as nice as Standards if you like the sound of
    the smaller pickups.
    
    Danny W.

>    Apparently not clear to me.  All I read was a bunch of complaints,
>    almost none of which apply to my guitar of the same model I thought you
>    were describing.

     You're confusing complaints with facts. To cut costs, and increase
     profit, Norlin made these changes to much of the Gibson line when
     they ran the company. No need to take it so personally. So you like
     your guitar...great.
    
     I really don't want this to turn into a long distance pissing contest.

     Neal          

>     I really don't want this to turn into a long distance pissing contest.
    
    I don't either.  I'm not upset, just trying to understand 'cause you
    stated a bunch of stuff as facts that didn't seem to fit with what I
    see in my guitar.
    
    Greg

    Danny, I talked to Dave Hussong last night.  That custom shop bird is
    already gone, back to the previous owner! (and at a substantial profit
    to Dave I guess).
    
    /rick

    Good thing--I've been looking at the pictures and starting to waver :-)
    
    Actually, I don't like these things enough to spend that much on one,
    but if it had been priced where the custom colored ones were, I would
    have bought it. Although, after seeing a $7500 asking price on some
    custom-color Jag in Vintage Guitar, $4k for the Firebird doesn't sound
    so out-to-lunch.
    
    Danny W.

    Naw, not me.  I was calling re another matter, dropped your name
    and mentioned the Firebird; that's when Dave said it had been sold.
    

    Dave & I have a lot of history between us. He's gotten me some of my
    favorite guitars and we've had several painful experiences--nothing
    that was his fault, just weird circumstances. He's one of the very
    short list of dealers I trust, FWIW.
    
    
    Danny W.

    The latest Vintage Guitar came in the mail the other day, and while
    paging through it my radar locked onto a small photo in one of the
    dealer ads of what looked like a very nice non-reverse Firebird V
    in a custom color.  My heart jumped a beat and I scanned the listing,
    there it was.  1965 Firebird V, refinished in Kerry Green, $1000.
    The V has the nice long Vibrola and two mini-hummers; the perfect bird.
    Kerry Green was a legit Gibson custom color at the time, a very light
    blue-ish green.  Besides looking extremely cool (imo of course), I
    have a special fondness for this color.  My first real bass, the one
    I cut my bass playing teeth on and did countless sleazy bar gigs with,
    was an original Kerry Green T-bird.

    I was dialing before the paper hit the table.  "We just sold it two
    days ago".  Oh well.  Bird refins are typically done to hide a
    neck/headstock repair so I was curious, did this one have a repair?
    "Nope".  How do you know?  "We did the refin.  It came in stripped,
    we just finished it to make it more marketable".  Damn, a nice bird,
    a really nice color, no repairs.

    Good thing it was gone; I didn't need it and probably couldn't have
    resisted.

    /rick

    
    	Anybody out there???
    
     I have a -76 reissue Firebird that I'm in love with except
    for those banjo tuners.They all have terrible play between
    the gears and obviously hard to get in tune.Are there any
    replacement parts that will fit??
    
    
    				Jan Torstensson Sweden

    Are you looking to get rid of banjo tuners altogether, or just that
    particular set?  The tuners on my circa '90 re-issue seem okay, you
    could probably get a replacement set directly from Gibson.
    
    These tuners were never *that* great anyway; the main thing they have
    going for them is the coolness factor.
    

    When I bought my Firebird V reissue, it included a fine-tuning
    tailpiece that replaces the standard stop tailpiece. I guess the
    previous owner did not like fine tuning the guitar with the
    regular banjo tuners. I have no problem with the banjo tuners
    and have never used the fine tune tp. Anyone wanna buy it?
    
    I would not replace the banjo tuners on a bird with anything
    but another set of banjo tuners. It's blasphemous to even think!
    
    Mark

    
    Do I have any options but banjo tuners,given  I do not want to
    do any permanent damage to my boid? Would the -90's machines
    fit right on? Mine are gold plated by the way.
    
     Do you guys play heavier strings on your Birds compared
    to shorter neck guitars? My .010 strings feel like .009
    on my LP or Strat.Comment?
    
    			Jan, Sweden

    No, I don't think there are any alternate tuners available that
    wouldn't require at least some new screw holes to be drilled.
    
    I use 010's, but they don't feel different to me than on other
    guitars.  The Firebird scale length is standard Gibson 24.75",
    just like a Les Paul.
    
    /rick

    
    a co-worker of mine just got given a free Firebird.Ok all the hardwear
    has been taken off and the back of it has been chewed up but it was
    free and will cost about $250 to get it to excellant condition!
    
    
    
    Eric,ya lucky shite!
    
    						ian

    	Yes, indeed it was a nice find for me.  Now let's just see how it
    plays when i get it back in a month or so!!
    
    Eric

    
    
    
    remember to take before and after photos!
    
    
    						ian

    I take it you are having someone restore it for you. Exactly what work
    is required, and who is doing the work?
    
    Oh and what kind of Firebird is it? Reversed or non-reversed? 
    Firebird I, III, V, or VII?
    
    Inquiring minds and all that.  I have a reissue Firebird V. It's the
    best playing and sounding guitar in my entire electric arsenal. The
    mini-humbuckers sound incredibly sweet. 
    
    Mark

    	I have a guy referred to me by Gibson doing the restoration for me. 
    His name is Ken Nash and he works out of Ron's Guitars in Groton, CT. 
    I saw pictures of some of his before and after work.  Believe me, this
    dude is a magician.  All that really needs done is to refinish the back
    of the body and polish up all the brass (yes, brass).  Almost all the
    metal, like the tuners, is brass.  The back of the body is heavily
    damaged.  The guy that gave it to me started to refinish it himself and
    didn't realize that he was trying to remove 20 - 30 coats of lacquer.
    
    	As far as the guitar being a Firebird I, III, V, or VII or
    anything else, I'm not sure.  I'm not a guitar expert (yet) by any
    stretch of the imagination.  Ya know, still a beginner.  However, you
    have aroused my curiosity and now I'd like to know.  I looked it up on
    Gibson's Web Page and it doesn't indicate more than one model for 1976
    with the exception of color.  Any experts at the HLO site out there
    that can take a look at it when I get it back?
    
    	Any more information I get, I'll definitely let ya know.
    
    Take Care,
    Eric

    If it's a '76, then that pretty much narrows it down.  Reverse body,
    two pickups, stop tailpiece, unbound dot neck, right?  If so, that's
    a bicenntenial re-issue.  Nice guitars, kind of a cross between an
    early 60's III and a V.  Does it have the original guard with the
    red-white-and-blue firebird logo?
    
    /rick
    

    	You pretty much nailed it there although I haven't seen the neck
    because it was covered with masking tape but everything else you said
    is correct.  It does have the original guard with the red, white & blue
    firebird and says '76 on it.  Only 2 1/2 more weeks 'til I get it back!
    
    Eric

    Whats a refinish job like that go for ($)?  Mark

    If he is refinishing it "right" (nitro-cellulous lacquer, in an
    original Gibson color) you should expect to pay at least $200 or
    more for a refin. Generally, refins do not add value to an 
    instrument unless the instrument is a complete basket case to
    begin with. Anything made of mahagony requires extra time/effort
    to apply a paste-wood filler and allow extra drying time and
    sanding. I would not do a job like this for less than $300.
    I also would not refinish 1/2 of an instrument. It's all or
    nothing. 
    
    A pro will go to great lengths to preserve the stamp on the
    back of the headstock which includes "Made in USA" and the serial
    number. 
    
	Mark
    
    

    	RE .146:
    
    	It's pretty apparent you have some experience in this area.  The
    guy that is doing my Firebird quoted me $250-$300.  He said he could
    blend the front and back and noone would be the wiser.  Should I
    believe that?  It is also in writing that he has to preserve the serial
    number.  That was one of my few specific requests for the job.  I asked
    for the best possible job he could do and money was no object.  That
    left him WIDE open to do what he wanted and that was the quote he gave
    me.  I hope it turns out like I expect it to.
    
    Eric