Conference napalm::guitar

    I recall, at the time (1971) I liked my special ALOT!  I'm not sure
    what you mean by the neck being weak. Gibsons in general always had
    some problem of headstocks that cracked or broke (witness the famous
    volute solution). I suspect the neck itself is quite similar to an
    SG standard. I played one of the SG Standard re-issues recently, and
    found it to play quite nicely.
    
    My opinion is that they are great little guitars and are often 
    overlooked because most folks prefer the standard with humbuckers.
    
    jim

    
    Actually I meant by the neck being weak those accidents that guitar
    falls from stand. But that is not a serious weakness. 
    
    Thanks for comments.
    
    
    Hannu

    One more comment about the SG special: According to Wheeler's book,
    the SG special was discontinued in 1971, so it's likely yours is not
    a '74, but somethime earlier. You could probably tell from the serial
    number on back of headstock.

    Re: .3
    
    Yes, but the Special was *reintroduced* later in the seventies.  Anyway
    the mini hummers are defintiely suspect, never saw a set on an SG
    before.
    
    							Brian

     I've seen the mini hummers on SG style guitars made during the
     #��k!ng Norlin years. Hannu, are the pickup frames rounded off
     on the ends near the pickup height adjustment screw?

     Neal
 

    Are those the same minin-H's that are on my Les paul Deluxe?  Are yours
    microphonic?
    
    dawg

    They also put those in Firebirds too...

    Sorry to disagree with several of the preceding, but Gibson had an
    SG Special with mini-buckers from late '72 to '78 (maybe '79). 
    
    Danny W.

    OK, I'm getting confused here...
    
    When I think of SGs:
    
    Custom: 3 humbuckers, gold trim
    
    Standard: 2 humbuckers, chrome trim
    
    Special: 2 soapbars
    
    Jr: one soapbar
    
    Am I getting the Special confused with some thing else?
    
    						Brian

    It appears (correct me if I'm wrong), that the special with soap
    bars went away in '71 to be replaced sometime later with a
    "special" with mini-humbuckers (sounds like a poor substitute).
    
    jim (getting_sentimental_for_my_old_cherry_red_special)ial)
    

    re .9
    
    you're not confused; it's just that Gibson went whacky in the 70's
    (but you knew that).
    
    re mini-hummers
    
    I've mentioned this elsewhere, but the mini-hummers and Firebird
    hummers are not the same beast.  Same size, but different under
    the hood.  One obvious difference, mini-hummers have exposed pole
    piece screws, Firebirds don't.

    
    	I had a weird SG for a while; I bought it used in the mid-'80's. 
    It had a standard-sized humbucker in the bridge position and *2 single
    coils* in the neck and middle position. It also had a newfangled whammy
    bar setup (no locking nut, though). The paint job was a cool metallic
    black.
    
    	It seemed to have come "stock" like that. It had Gibson on the
    headstock but no "Special", "Custom" or similar moniker. Never seen
    one like it before or since. It was actually a nice guitar; I sold
    it during a period when I'd just about had it with the music biz...
    kinda wish I kept it now.
    
    Brad
    

    Gibson trashed the SG line in the '70's--removed most of the carving
    from the bodies, tried different (mostly detrimental) pickup
    combinations and types and other awful things. There was the SG Pro,
    the SG Special I & II and others too horrible to mention.
    
    Didn't recover 'til the late '80's.
    
    Danny W.

    re mini-hummers
    
>    I've mentioned this elsewhere, but the mini-hummers and Firebird
>    hummers are not the same beast.  Same size, but different under
>    the hood.  One obvious difference, mini-hummers have exposed pole
>    piece screws, Firebirds don't.
    
    Woop, musta slid right through my little mind.  I remember you talking
    about someone's replacements for pickups that size being different,
    didn't catch that the originals were different.  How do they sound, in
    comparison?
    
    Greg

    
    Microphones are black and metallic, smaller than those brass-made
    "real" humbuckers. S/N: 198765 or something like that, it is not
    so clear. Below that there is the MADE IN USA -text.
    
    Hannu

    If the pickups have *black* covers, maybe they aren't humbuckers after
    all?  Gibson humbuckers usually have chrome covers with one set of pole
    pieces exposed  along one edge (i.e. not entered).  If the pickup has
    a black cover with exposed polepieces in the *center* of the pickup,
    those are probably "soapbar" single coils, which would be normal for a
    Special.  If they are black and have *no* exposed polepieces, then
    they are one of a variety of cheaper pickups Gibson was using in the
    70s, though most of those that I've seen have *plastic* covers.
    
    							Brian

    I took a peek in Wheelers book, and he does mention the SG series
    introduced in 1972 (even has pictures). He called them the SG I,II &
    III. They all had humbuckers with black plastic covers, and 
    triangular pickguards quite unlike the earlier series. The I (special)
    had only two knobs and some switches while the II and III had the
    full complement of 4 knobs. Appearance wise they looked cheaper than
    the earlier series. It kinda reminded me of when Fender tried to
    cheapen up the Strat. They apparently weren't very successful.

    The 1973 price list has the SG Special with "special-design
    humbuckers."
    
    Yes Brian, these really are mini-humbuckers with black covers.
    
    The SG I, II, & II are even worse abominations that are better not
    discussed.
    
    Danny W.

    re .14
    
    Firebird vs LP Deluxe style mini-hummers, I can't say there's
    a huge difference in tone.  They both sound more trebly with
    less low end than their big PAF style brothers.  The Firebirds
    might push the mids a little more.  The best example of the
    classic Firebird tone I can of think is the album "Johnny Winter
    And Live".  Also, they have a reputation of staying cleaner and
    smoother at loud volume; but then again, Neil Young has one in his
    black LP (so I guess that blows that theory :-)

    Although when I saw him perform he had a slew of Strats (maybe 7, and
    used every one), in the photo accompanying his (last?) album Sonny
    Landreth is shown playing a Firebird in the studio.

	What woods are used in SG`s?I saw walnut get a mention somewhere,
	but that`s about it.
		Do the current models (re-issues?) suffer from the same
	headstock problems that older ones do?
		I`ve only ever played one Gibson SG and that suffered from
	being strung with 008`s which were way too light for me,although the 
	owner seemed happy enough with them!The prices of vintage SG`s in the
	UK are pretty good so bearing in mind to scrutinise the neck extra
	carefully,I might well go for one.
		Favourite SG player is a guy called Mickey Jones who played in
	a UK group called Man in the `70s,he used an SG Std with Bigsby and was 
	noted as being a very tasteful,melodic soloist.The CD reissue of 
	Back Into The Future contains - I think - his best playing,check it 
	out if you can.
					
						Tom. 

    SG's are, for the most part, solid mahogany.  There may have been
    walnut in use somewhere along the line, but it would definitely be an
    exception.
    
    The earliest SG's suffered from weakness at the neck/body joint (heel);
    it's hard to find one that isn't at least showing cracks around there.
    Around 1964, they started to beef up the heel design and continued to
    mess with it for many years to come; this probably helped some but was
    less aesthetically pleasing.  Recent re-issues are back to the original
    style neck-body joint, but maybe they've done some tricks to make it
    stronger.  I haven't seen any re-issues with heel problems (yet).
    
    Yeah, headstocks are also weak, but no moreso than any other Gibson.
    
    I love the Man band; Deke Leonard, the other main guitarist, was also
    an SG man, a white Custom.  And didn't John Cippolina (another SG kinda
    guy) do a later album with them?  Are Deke and Mickey still around?
    
    /rick

    The walnut-bodied SGs were "The SG" and the SG Firebrand model from
    about 78-80 or so.  These are easily distinguished by having the pickup
    selector switch mounted *below* the knobs rather than above, no covers
    for the pickups  and the model name engraved on the truss rod cover.
    
    							Brian

    I wuz an SG guy in a former life...

	
		Thanks for your replies,I think I`m going to have to look
	at new SG`s - there don`t seem to be many used models in Scotland.
		I`ve seen a couple of stores in Guitarist magazine who are
	advertising new SG Specials and Standards,so I might do a trade of
	my Aria or Peavey Renown for a new SG.
		
		Rick,the Manband are still around,playing mostly large clubs 
	and bars in the UK.They have a newish CD out called The Twang Dynasty
	- great title! - which you might get on import.The line-up now is:
	Deke,Mickey,Martin Ace and John Weathers,the latter is the only `new`
	name,who previously played with Gentle Giant,remember them?
		Previous drummer Terry Williams now plays with Dire Straits.

		Deke certainly still plays his white SG Custom,but Mickey
	now plays what looks like a Fernandez Strat replica in a gold finish.
	I read about poor John Cippolina elsewhere in this notesfile - he 
	played a very distinctive SG,a closeup of which is on the sleeve of 
	Mans Maximum Darkness lp.
	
 					Tom - in a reminiscing mood......

    Tom, I certainly do remember Gentle Giant.  Never saw them live (did
    they ever tour the States?) but I was heavily into the first few albums
    for a long time.  I had no idea the Manband were still going; you
    lucky dogs!
    
    Here's a true (I swear it) SG story.  About a year ago, a local axe
    emporium I frequent got in a beat '62 SG re-issue.  It had probably been
    owned by an "alternative" type and was painted (badly) white (looked like
    a can of Dutch Boy and a roller), had stickers all over it, some of em under
    the paint; the thing was a mess.  The shop owner was willing to let it
    go cheap, about $300 or so.  I was thinking it would be a cool idea to
    repaint the thing a la Clapton's Peter Max SG, but the more I thought
    about committing the time and money to the project, the less enthused I
    was.   It was a moot point anyway, because shortly thereafter someone
    snagged it.  He came back into the store about a week later; turns out
    the stickers peeled off easily, and the paint was such a poor job it too
    came up with some fine sanding.  Underneath was a perfect cherry finish;
    the thing looked almost new.  So for $300, he snagged a killer SG re-issue
    (the thing played great too).
    
    So I guess the moral is, keep looking.  They're out there.
    
    /mick_abrahms

    C'mon Rick, SG's don't bring the big prices something like a Les Paul
    would.  I used to see 'em pretty frequently, in good condition, for
    $350-$400. $300 for one with a trashed finish job is no great bargain
    in my eyes.
    
    Greg

    Re: .26 I think I remember seeing Gentle Giant open
    up for Jethro Tull (or maybe it was Yes) in Portland
    Ore. sometime in the mid 70's.  
    
    Dave

    re .27
    
    Well, I saw a new '62 re-issue down at Wurltizers a few weeks ago;
    I'm pretty sure the retail on it was over $1k (either that, or real
    close to the $1k mark).  So I figured $300 for an almost mint one
    was a pretty good deal.

     At last years 1st Annual Boston Guitar Show, Mr. Music seemed to
     have every Gibson available, including the '62 Gibson Reissue for
     $699/new w/case. This may have been a good price 'cuz they also had
     a few GoldTop Reissues w/humbuckers for only $1200, and two '56 GoldTop
     Reissue w/P100's for $1100. BTW, there is another SG ('69 Reissue?) with
     the large bat-wing pick-plate, small head stock, different neck-set,
     (fugly..imho) that costs less than the '62. I have no idea what current
     prices are, though.
     	I have the '62 Reissue and I love it. When I strap it on' it makes me
     play Cream, ACDC and Jethro Tull tunes. %^)

     Neal

    What's the difference between the reissue and a regular SG?
    
    Greg

    Last year a guitar repairer friend got a hold of a really beat-up 70's
    SG...this thing had been converted to left hand,including holes routed
    and drilled for controls,and hand-painted with black household gloss.
    Dave stripped the body down to the wood,and put a thick veneer of
    heavily-figured quilted mahogany on top.He drilled out the new control
    holes,contoured the edge of the body to the original shape,and put a
    beautiful cherry-to-black finish on top,then clear laquer.This guitar
    was the most stunning SG I've seen.Beat most flame tops hands down for
    looks.
    		Jim.

    That's essentially what I did with my SG Std. Bought it from DB for
    $75, repaired the damaged headstock, and then refinished it with
    transparent cherry lacquer. I had a lot of fun with that project!
    Mine is a 1975 model, with the small pickguard, and small block markers. 
    
    My cache of Gibson weapons has grown to 5. I now have an ES345, ES175,
    SG Std. Firebird V, and Blues King acoustic. I still need a Les Paul
    though  ;^)
    
    Mark
    
    
    
    
    

    	re.27	Greg,prices of SG`s in the UK are fairly steep,Les Pauls even
	more so.A typical used SG..say from c.`74 would be ~ $600 to 800,while
	a new model will set you back around $700 for a Special and $900 for a
	Standard.This makes as little sense to me as it no doubt does to you,
	considering as you rightly point out that they are by no means 
	collectable classics like LP`s.Hence my (probable) intention to buy 
	one new.

		BTW there is a book called simply The SG Book available here,
	I`ve got a copy ordered,so expect SG trivia to increase soon!
		
		Rick,yes indeed,Man split up in `77 or so and reformed in `83.
	Their first re-union gig was at the Reading Festival,which I couldn`t
	attend due to being engaged elsewhere....well,getting married actually..
	..however a CD of that gig has been released in the UK recently called
 	Live At Reading `83,and features reworks of some of the old tunes.
		You mentioned Gentle Giant possibly supporting Yes,are you maybe
	thinking of a bizarre English band called Gryphon who played mediaeval
	rock music and definitely supported Yes on a European tour?
		As a footnote to this,Gryphon had all their gear stolen in 
	Glasgow the afternoon of their gig with Yes - I remember being in a 
	music shop that day listening them trying to explain to the staff what
	a crumhorn was!!

    
		Staynz...it WAS McCormacks!!!!!!      %-}

		
						Tom

    re: .33
    
    Mark did an outstanding job on his SG.  db, you'd be proud.  If he
    hadn't pointed out the repair I would have thought the thing was new.
    
    But I'll still take the ES-175.  %^)
    
    Dave

    >>But I'll still take the ES-175.  %^)
    
    
    That's because you *have* an SG!
    
    8*P

>    That's because you *have* an SG!
    
    Yeah, but it's an Asian Epi, not a real Gibson.  And besides, since I
    can't play and I'm just dreaming anyway, why not dream I'm a jazz
    guitarist?
    
    Dave

    Dreamin' yer a jazz guitarist with *my* daughter cleaning yer ES175?
    
    

    Not exactly cleaning, y'know...  Does the song "Dirty White Boy" mean
    anything to you?  %^)
    
    Dave

    I think Dave's buckin to replace Alan in that photo...

>    I think Dave's buckin to replace Alan in that photo...
    
    That's easy, 'cuz Alan's not in the photo - just Christie.  Poor Greg,
    you must be the only guy in Guitar who hasn't seen it.  %^)
    
    Dave

     >That's easy, 'cuz Alan's not in the photo - just Christie.  Poor Greg,
     >you must be the only guy in Guitar who hasn't seen it.  
    
    Let's make that REAL clear.....I showed Alan my daughter's high school
    senior *picture*, not the actual being.  If he is ever in the same room
    as Christie, or even the same state, it will be by his and her doing, 
    not mine......it will also be his *UNdoing"......she's way too fast for
    him!
    
    dawgy daddy.....
    

>    she's way too fast for him!
    
    Mmmmmm...

    You reading that, Alan?  Sounds like a challenge to me!

    
    I saw a nice "NASA Memorial" SG in local guitar shop last Saturday.
    Looked great! With two silver humbuckers. They were asking about
    1000 $. But that is in Finland!
    
    
    Hannu Still_Happy_With_74_Walnut_Special

    Where's it been?
    
    Dave

    
    Not on the moon, I guess. Didn't notice any spacedust on it. 8-)
    
    
    Hannu