Conference napalm::guitar

    
    Tony,
    
    Sounds similar to the problems I have experienced with an ME6 I bought
    last year namely great at low 'home' volumes but awful when driven
    through a valve amp running at 80%. See 2627 and 2647 and see if my
    experience matches yours. I assume the ME5 and ME6 have the same guts
    at the end of the day.
    
    Richard

    Tony,
    
    Don't know about the ME5, but on the ME6, if you set the overall master
    volume at "42" (Yeah I know meaning of life and all that), You will be
    sending the same level from the ME6 to the amp as your guitar is
    sending in....
    
    I had a sinular problem as described by Richard and yourself, but got
    round it by bring the overall afect level downb slightly and keeping
    the graphic under major restraint.
    
    It eliminated all the breakup except in the miost radical sounds
    (screaming harmonics etc,) but that again is probably a lack of control
    on my behalf.
    
    Bob

    
    The master volume has a range from negative '?' to +7. Its currently on
    +7. What are the implications of this level in/out stuff ? I'm a guitarist, 
    not an electrical engineer 8^) ???
    
    >> I had a sinular problem as described by Richard and yourself, but got
    >> round it by bring the overall afect level downb slightly and keeping
    >> the graphic under major restraint.
    
    Hmm.. but wouldn't I lose more volume still ?
    
    -tony

    Richard,
    
    Read your notes and wondered what amp you settled for. My amp head is a
    Valvestate Marshall which I believe is mainly a solid state amp (why do
    they call it "Valvestate" then??).
    
    -tony

    Tony,
    
    I am using pure tranny power in the Peavey... and it works... even at
    gigs the amp is never above 4.... the only problem seems to be
    chorus/flange type of sounds....
    
    but I get loads of welly without the sound breakin' up...
    
    Bob

    I've known two players who've used an ME5 -- Both players had a
    VERY muddy sound -- but it wasn't their rigs, it's my opinion
    it was the damn fx unit!!  Something about the sound of the
    reverb and delays in there, really muddied their sound to
    the max.  
    
    I would try using more "amp" and less "fx" and see how that works.
    Also use the internal EQ to try and clean that thing (ME5) up. 

    
    Re: Bob
    
    Might try and borrow another amp, thanks for the suggestion.
    
    Re: Buck
    
    I'm very happy with the sound of the unit at low volumes but when
    its cranked I get problems. I spent some time with minimal effects and
    using the amps distortion but its not my scene, I like a processed
    modern sound but I do appreciate that other people don't.
    
    -tony

    RE: TTT
    
    >I'm very happy with the sound of the unit at low volumes but when
    >its cranked I get problems. I spent some time with minimal effects and
    >using the amps distortion but its not my scene, I like a processed
    >modern sound but I do appreciate that other people don't.
    
    No no no, you totally misconstrued the gist of my reply!!  I'm not
    saying to use less "fx", I'm saying the ratio of "dry sound to fx
    sound" needs to be less.  Eg, if you put a 80% effected signal out into
    your amp, it's going to sound like a mess when you bring it up to any
    volume.  Besides that, if you're into the "totally processed" sound, I
    honestly think you're going about it the wrong way by 'front ending'
    your amp with a multi-fx unit.  I think post-gain fx work much better.
    
    Why didn't you just go for the Scholtz modular set-up??  It's the
    ultimate in processed guitar sounds, and all the units (gain,
    compression, eq, delay, chorus) are made to work in conjunction with
    one another...
    

    
    Ahh I see! Ok, I'll give that a try with the mix. Do you think the 
    quality will improve if I include the me5 in the amps fx loop ?
    (obviously the best thing to do is try it for myself but I won't get a
    chance to crank the sucker until Thursday).
    
    As for the Scholtz stuff, its a bit pricey for me unfortunatley 8(
    
    -tony

    I think it theoretically it may work better in the loop of the amp
    than front-ended.  Give it a shot (in fact, everyone should try 
    different configurations with their individual systems to see what
    works best with the pieces they have).

    This thing about "sounds OK at home but crap at the gig" might mean you
    should think about how the ear responds to low volume signals.  That's
    why they put a "loudness" button on stereos, to boost the crap out of
    the bass at low volumes so that the tonal balance sounds more like what
    you hear when the volume is cranked.  In general, you don't need so
    much low end at high volumes, so tweak that EQ!  To get rid of
    muddiness in reverb/delay sounds, rolling off the low end EQ before
    going into the verb will work wonders.  Reverberant bass is just mush.
    
    Try setting the FX unit up with the amp cranked to stage volume at home
    (if you can).  Maybe you need to have two sets of patches, "home"
    patches and "gig" patches with each optimized for the volume you will
    be working at.
    
    							Brian

    
    	Exactly, Brian.  I needed a set of patches when I went into my
    	Boogie and had to copy and tweak them for when I went direct
    	into the PA.  It sucks to find this out on stage!!
    
    	At least there's 64 places to put 'em.
    
    	I'd leave the low volume patches alone, copy them to another
    	group, and set the EQ like you wrote.
    
    	Tom
    

Tone-bro,

Try this:

Guitar----> ME5 ----->FX loop Return

This will bypass your Preamp/EQ section and use only the power section of 
your amp.  BTW - The Valvestates are Hybrid - 12AX7 premp toob, MOSFET 
power section.  

I've found the above config works real well with your kind of rig!

jc

    
    Hey Coop, do you really mean that I effectively use the fx return jack
    as a sort of 'input' from the fx without using the send jack at all ? 
    Never tried that, but will do now...
    
    Thanks for all the advice folks, I'll try all suggestions Thursday. 
    
    -Tony 

    >Hey Coop, do you really mean that I effectively use the fx return jack
    >as a sort of 'input' from the fx without using the send jack at all ? 
    >Never tried that, but will do now...
    
    Give it a shot, but not sure it will work.  We tried using the RETURN
    on my fx loop for Boom's 610S preamp and it was a NO GO!  Even tried
    faking out the amp by instering something into the send jack...nada!
    

    Worth a try tho' I guess...
    
    -tony

Yeah TONE, give it a shot.  I used to do this with Toms old GP16 and a Marshall
MOSFET and it worked fine!!

jc

    There is hope for me yet then ...

Gotta chime in with Buck too - You GOTTA try everything (config wise anyway).

jc

    Remember if you're using the efx loop return as an input, that the ME5
    will probably have to be operating at line level, not instrument level. 
    So you'll effectively be using it as a preamp.  
    
    I used to run my old Mp-1 into the efx return of my Kitty Hawk M3,
    using the tube back end of the Kitty and it worked pretty well (even
    though I was never happy with the tone the Mp-1 made).
    
    Greg

    
    
      Re: .15
        That's for sure. The REXX 610S didn't sound too hot going into the
    5150's instrument level (real tinny). Same thing happens with the 610S
    into the M5's front panel (yuk!). BUT - The REXX 610S into the M5's
    effects return is MAGIC. Sounds KILLER!
    
      Hey Buck! - Did we ever try switching your effects loops ON while the
    610S was plugged into it. I noticed that on the 5150 I tried the other
    day!
    
    							-B{}{}M-    

    
    Tony,
    
    Havn't settled on a replacement amp yet. It's pretty hard to convince
    'er indoors that having spent 250 quid on this box of tricks I need to
    spend another 250+ to make it work properly! I am approaching this
    proposal with care!
    
    Having done a lot of market research and the general opinion seems
    to be that I need 80-100 watts of 'clean' power. The cleaner the
    better. Now the problem I have is varying views on what 'clean' means.
    I've heard varying views from "It's gotta be a straight solid state amp
    of as high a quality as you can afford. No built in effects etc etc.
    You should consider Trace Elliot acoustic amps" to "The cleanest amps
    around are Valve amps".
    
    Personally I can't identify with the latter statement. I can see how a
    valve amp will give you a clean distorted sound (sounds like a
    contradiction!) but used with no effects I would have thought valves
    were anything but clean.
    
    Puzzled of Reading

>        That's for sure. The REXX 610S didn't sound too hot going into the
>    5150's instrument level (real tinny). Same thing happens with the 610S
>    into the M5's front panel (yuk!). BUT - The REXX 610S into the M5's
>    effects return is MAGIC. Sounds KILLER!
    
    Yeah, that was the same way it was with the Mp-1 into my M3.  Plugging
    it into the front panel instrument input (with it set at instrument
    level output) sounded like dung, but pluggin into the efx return
    sounded a *lot* better.

    Greg

    	FYI.. Some manufacturers may use isolated jacks that allow them not
    to connect a ground to one of the FX loop jacks to prevent ground loops
    and the terrible buzzing hums associated with them.
    
    FJE

   re: last few

   Whereas my SOHO preamp seems to sound like utter sh!t when plugged into
   anything other than the front end (inst. level) input of any amp I try
   (several) so as to allow use of the EQ controls of the amp to shape the 
   sound.  Also has the nice feature of providing a real master volume for
   the seperate channels on the SOHO.  Can't wait for my Red Box to show up,
   so I can see how that'll help the sound.

   -- Sam (glad he's got his Marshall up his sleeve, too...  :-))

    
    Well I tried some more last night :-
    
    Method			Result
    ------			------
    Direct into FX return	No output at all 
    Using standard FX loop	When using a clean patch sounded fine,
    			        but when using a patch with distortion
    				output had a really high pitched feed back
    		                problem and NO sound came from the guitar 
    			        AT ALL - any clues ?
    Back off w/ bass eq band	Little bit more clarity but too thin and
    				tinny.
    
    
    Still stumped.