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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

2645.0. "Problem with high pitched sting" by NOTAX::WITTENBERG () Fri Dec 18 1992 15:00

Here goes:

My setup sounds great at low to medium volumes.  When the level approaches the
point where you start to "feel" the music (that level where you have to raise
your voice a bit to talk to the person next to you,) a high pitched stinging
sound sort of resonates. The pitch seems to be mostly independent of the notes I
am playing (that is, it's frequency doesn't appear to change with the frequency
of the note I may be playing at the time), and after a while at that volume, it
tends to dominate one's attention.  The sound does not happen when I am not
playing and it tends to be stronger/louder when I play high notes and with more
distortion.

I know what you're thinking, and it's not true:

      It is not the guitarist!  It isn't.  It isn't.  It isn't!   ;-)

The simple solution doesn't seem to work:  I tried to EQ it out, but had no luck.
I could EQ the high frequencies to the point where they were barely audible, but
"the sting" was still there.

Anyway, I assume it is something "wrong" with my equipment, "wrong" with my
wiring, "incompatible" equipment, or atleast something lacking in quality.  The
problem might be as simple "as the system is not 'warm'," but if so, why?


Here's the equipment I am using:
(I have experimented with a number of different wirings.)

Charvel model6  -->  Digitech GSP21pro ==> A/B 600 LX ==> 2 x marshall 4x10s
                     |             ^^
                     |             ||
                     V              \\
              boogie studio preamp   \\     
                     |                \\
                     | *              ||
                     V                ||
                  Hush I --> Yamaha SPX 90 (usually in bypass mode)

This is messy because these dang devices can't decide if they are mono or
stereo.  The GSP is mono-in, stereo-out, mono-fx-send, stereo-fx-return.  The
boogie is mono-in, stereo-out, stereo-fx-send, stereo-fx-return.  The SPX is
mono-in, stereo-out.  (what a bunch of numbskulls who designed this stuff like
this - almost as dumb as the folks like myself who end up buying it)

* - The connection out of the boogie and into the Hush has been dilemma.
I never know whether to run out of the Boogie's FX loop, or out of it's
channel-out.  I am currently using the latter with the volume toned way down.

Anyway, The GSP allows me to put the FX loop in/out of the signal chain, and the
problem exists without the mess of the loop.  

Could this problem be caused by the guitar?  The cables?  I dunno.

Help!
Eric
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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2645.1POWDML::BUCKLEYLose yourself and gain a friendFri Dec 18 1992 15:2624
    I think it's your chain, which is creating this sympathetic resonance
    thing from hell.
    
    Try doing your chain this way:
    
Charvel model6 --> Boogie Preamp --> 600 LX --> Marshall 4x10
    		    |	    | |  --> 600 LX --> Marshall 4x10
                    + GSP21 L |   
                            R +
    
    Guitar plugged into Boogie Preamp.  Mono FX send out of Boogie preamp
    into Mono-in on the GSP21.  Stereo FX-out on the GSP21 into the 
    Stereo FX-in on the Boogie.  Stereo out on the Boogie into Left and
    Right on the power amp, and into their respective cabs.  I'd can the
    SPX 90 as it's a piece of crap, and really screws up anyone's tone.
    I also have reservations about plugging directly into the FX unit,
    and then into the preamp?!  You may also notice I canned the hush out
    of your signal chain ... bogus for tone!!
    
    Anyways, the problem you have sounds like simple microphonic feedback.
    You learn to control it someway.  Myself, I play with so much gain,
    sometimes I microphonically feedback.  I usually setup a "kill" patch
    so I can just shut the damn thing off when I'm not playing.  When I'm
    playing, the feedback is masked.  A kludge fix, but it works.
2645.2GOES11::G_HOUSEBig cheese, MAKE me!Sun Dec 20 1992 18:346
>    I'd can the SPX 90 as it's a piece of crap, and really screws up
>    anyone's tone.
    
    Don't hold back, Bill, tell us what you really think of the SPX-90.
    
    ;^)
2645.3Just a thought from a combo userMVSUPP::CARRDDave Carr 845-2317Mon Dec 21 1992 05:054
If your Valve preamp sits on top of the speaker cabs, could be a preamp
tube "on the way out". This would fit the scenario of only seeing the problem
when the volume is turned up.
*Dave
2645.4additional infoNOTAX::WITTENBERGMon Jan 04 1993 08:2629
Thanks,

By the way, my boogie is not always 'in the chain.'  The whole
FX loop can be switched off by the GSP.  The problem is present
when the boogie is not in the chain - I should'a mentioned that.

RE: -.1
   I recently replaced the tubes.  No change.

RE: .1
   I'll give it a try tonight.  I think I tried that wiring when I first
   got my GSP & Boogie.  I think I disregarded it because I have difficulty
   finding a good setting on the boogie which allows the flexibility I want.
   The sounds from the two channels are not independent.  To get a heavy
   distorted sound from the lead channel, I have to put some distortion
   in the 'clean' channel.  Not really what I have in mind.  In the
   configuration I have now, I can use the GSP to switch the boogie in
   or out of the chain via the MIDI pedal.  This way I can get a range from
   solid-state clean to tube scream via MIDI (MRP).

   The only thing useful I use the SPX for is pitch detuning.  I spend a lot
   of time just playing along with CDs and for the odd song (Satch's "Friends"
   or Extreme's "Rest in Peace" are recent tunes that come to mind) where
   all strings are tuned 1/2 step flat, it makes life a lot easier.  The tone,
   once detuned, is awful but it gets me though figuring a song out.  I'd
   never play for someone else that way.

   I am curious about your comment on the Hush.  Do you feel that way about
   Noise Gates in general, or just Rocktron's implementation?
2645.5Another win for analog over digital...GOES11::G_HOUSEBig cheese, MAKE me!Mon Jan 04 1993 13:0313
>   The only thing useful I use the SPX for is pitch detuning.  I spend a lot
>   of time just playing along with CDs and for the odd song (Satch's "Friends"
>   or Extreme's "Rest in Peace" are recent tunes that come to mind) where
>   all strings are tuned 1/2 step flat, it makes life a lot easier.  The tone,
>   once detuned, is awful but it gets me though figuring a song out.  I'd
>   never play for someone else that way.
    
    Gross!  Why don't you just get a tape deck with a pitch control on it? 
    Still sounds a little funny, but not nearly as bad as using an SPX90
    pitch shift function.  Then you just tune the tape to your
    instrument.
    
    Greg
2645.6BTOVT::BEST_Gsomewhat less offensive p_nTue Jan 05 1993 07:407
    
    Greg,
    
    You mean you *speed up* Nuno's solos to figure them out? ;-)
    
    
    guy
2645.7Pitch controls go both ways, dude...8915::G_HOUSEBig cheese, MAKE me!Tue Jan 05 1993 11:507
>    You mean you *speed up* Nuno's solos to figure them out? ;-)
    
    That's right, Guy.  That Nuno's chops are just so sorry that I just
    can't manage to keep my level of interest up enough to learn his songs
    unless I speed 'em up quite a bit.
    
    Greg
2645.8BTOVT::BEST_Gsomewhat less offensive p_nWed Jan 06 1993 12:4912
    
    Yeah, I have that problem too, Greg.....
    
    
    
    
    ....NOT!!! 
    
    ;-)
    
    
    guy
2645.9Method for figuring out muddied bass linesDREGS::BLICKSTEINHere all life aboundsThu Jan 07 1993 14:1426
    >I think I disregarded it because I have difficulty finding a good
    >setting on the boogie which allows the flexibility I want. The sounds
    >from the two channels are not independent.  To get a heavy distorted
    >sound from the lead channel, I have to put some distortion in the
    >'clean' channel.  
    
    Sounds familiar.  We, in here, refer to this as "the classic boogie
    problem".
    
    By the way, don't laugh at the idea of speeding up to figure out
    parts.  
    
    It works EXCEPTIONALLY WELL for figuring out bass parts that are buried
    in the mix.  Speeding them up seems to bring them right up to the front
    of the mix and the higher pitch makes the bass easier to hear.
    
    I do this quite a lot.
    
    It's kinda funny cause I have a dubbing deck with a 2x capability.  
    
    To figure out the bass parts, I need THREE tapes: 1 with the material
    I'm trying to learn, a scratch tape, and one tape to record on.
    
    I dub at 2x speed to the scratch tape, and RECORD the output of the
    deck while it's doing that onto another tape and THAT tape is what
    I use to learn the part!  
2645.10Save Some EffortTECRUS::ROSTGive me Beefheart or give me deathThu Jan 07 1993 14:3715
    >It's kinda funny cause I have a dubbing deck with a 2x capability.  
    >To figure out the bass parts, I need THREE tapes: 1 with the material
    >I'm trying to learn, a scratch tape, and one tape to record on.
    >I dub at 2x speed to the scratch tape, and RECORD the output of the
    >deck while it's doing that onto another tape and THAT tape is what
    >I use to learn the part!  
    
    Yo, db!
    
    I take it you sold your four-track, since the average four-track
    running at 3-3/4" will play the tape at double speed no sweat.  The
    Tascam 424 is even cooler since you play tapes at either half or double
    speed.
    
    						Brian
2645.11%^)NWACES::HICKERNELLI'll see it when I believe it.Thu Jan 07 1993 14:505
    re: speeding up to figure out bass parts
    
    Do you do this with Jaco's lines, by any chance?
    
    Dave
2645.12GOES11::G_HOUSEBig cheese, MAKE me!Thu Jan 07 1993 15:153
    I'm sure he does, Stu Hamm and Les Claypool's too.
    
    Greg