Conference napalm::guitar

    
    
    
      So when is this Dream Theater gig happening in Boston?
    When is Coop and CJ comin' to town?   (I have to call up
    the Bud plant in Merrimack and have an extra shift added.)
    
      Rick.
    
    

    >  So when is this Dream Theater gig happening in Boston?
    
    Wednesday, Dec 16th at Axis.  BE THERE!!

    
    
      I think I asked a while back, don't remember if there was an answer
    or not.  So...
    
      Did Dream Theater do a recording/CD?  I caught the "Yes" reference,
    what's the gig here?  A cross between Yes, Shadowfax, ELP and Satch?
    You guys have me looking forward to this band and I don't have a clue
    as to why.  
    
      Who are the knuckleheads showing up on the 16th?  I'll be there, (I
    hope!)  Haven't been to BeanTown since Johnny Rotten/PIL, I'm due.
    
    
      Rick
    
    
    

    Yeah, they have at least one album out since I have a track from it on
    a sampler CD I got a few weeks back.  To my ears they sound more like
    Rush than Yes.  They might even be better than PiL....
    
    						Brian

    >  Did Dream Theater do a recording/CD?
    
    Their current lp is call _Images and Words_.  It rips!
    
    
    >I caught the "Yes" reference, what's the gig here?  A cross between Yes, 
    >Shadowfax, ELP and Satch?
    
    More like a mixture of Yes, ELP, Metallica, and Queensryche.  This
    guitarist for DT smokes Satriani!
    
    
    >You guys have me looking forward to this band and I don't have a clue
    >as to why.  
    
    There's a good reason to be, they're awesome.

There is another CD too, but I have't been able to find it.
Images And Words RIPS !!  For what it's worth I saw the band cold
(ergo, I didn't know ANY of their stuff).  I was floored.

Definately a Rush/Metallica/Queensryche/Kansas/Yes/ELP type of rock.
And the whole BAND smokes, not just the guitarist.  :-)  Highly technical
music with operatic vocals (ala Queensryche).

I've heard rumors that the guy has only played for 6 years.  :-(

Anyway, Cindi and Jaime are in Massachusetts now, and I'm coming out 
Tuesday evening.  

jc

>And the whole BAND smokes, not just the guitarist.  :-)  Highly technical
>music with operatic vocals (ala Queensryche).
    
    All these cats are Berklee dudes (you can see them shlepping equipment
    across Mass Ave from time to time!), and they are "8" and "9" rating
    players, fyi and fwiw.
    
    The bassist kills me -- he plays a 6 stringer, and he jams.  Killer
    chops.  He sets up the coolest grooves with the drummer -- I love this
    band!

    Alright, Jeff, I just fell off my chair laughing at your p-name.  Now,
    what's it mean?
    
    Dave

>    The bassist kills me -- he plays a 6 stringer, and he jams.  Killer
>    chops.  He sets up the coolest grooves with the drummer -- I love this
>    band!

Agreed.  The drummer is SO intensely busy...  I wonder what he puts in his 
wheaties ??  This guy could be the next Peart! (With some aging :-)

Who me ??

Ever see Bugs Bunny??  Remember when Bugs got "fixed up" with a
Russian rabbit named Rubmilla??

Thats what she said to Bugs - (insert your idea of a 200 pound female 
russian rabbit accent) "Poochkins, Dhaaling, give to me BIG kiss"

:-)

    I knew it was a Russian accent, but wouldn't have guessed Bugs.  Shame
    on me - I watch him all the time with my six-year-old.  But I don't
    remember Rubmilla... is *she* a better guitarist than either Neil or
    Eric?  %^)
    
    Dave

Where is Axis?

Jim

    re. 1563
    
    Dream Theater's first CD is called When Dream and Day Unite and you can
    get it from Columbia House CD Club...I just got mine Nov. 5th...
    
    Suegene

    
    I think the song Hold Me Under is very, very tasty stuff. I haven't
    heard anything quite this dynamic in quite some time. Rock on Dream
    Theater.
    

    
    	So what's with this DADA band? 
    
    	I just crashed my car again, now I'm goin' to Disneyland.
    	I just tossed a 5th of gin, now I'm goin' to Disneyland.
    
    	spiritual, eh?

RE: Jim Evans
    
>Where is Axis?
    
    On Lansdowne St. in Boston.  This club is between the "Avalon Ballroom"
    (ex-Metro/Citi) and "Venus De Milo", and right across from Fenway Park
    (aka The Big Green Monster).  If you can find your way to Fenway Park,
    you're 90% there.

RE: .1 

It lives !!  (Hi Bob)

Yeah DT is tasty, and gnarly when they need to be.  Definately
"industrial metal".  Man, they guy can sing his head off too !!

For you folks in Mass - Come to The Axis with us (there will be about
10-15 of us.  You WON'T regret it !!

jc

Hey Buck - Is this what used to be "Spit"  I used to LOVE that 
place...

Also, is this show going to be an over 18 thing, or??

jc (Whos BRO-In-LAW wants to come, but he's only at the two decade mark)

    Coop (or some mod) -- can you move this stuff over to the new DT note?
    
    
    Yes, Axis is the former "SPIT" club.

>Yeah DT is tasty, and gnarly when they need to be.  Definately
>"industrial metal".  Man, they guy can sing his head off too !!
  ^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Dude...
    
    Industrial is NOT the right term for what you mean, in musical
    sub-genre classification, that is an entirely different type of music. 
    Bands like Ministry would be considered "industrial metal"...
    
    Greg

Spit RULED!!  Love that place.

Anyway, is this an 18 and over show Buck??

Can we start a list of interested folks who are going from
this conference??

jc

    FYI --
    
    BAND:  Dream Theater
    
    DATE:  Wednesday, Dec. 16th
    
    PLACE: AXIS, Lansdowne Street, Boston, MA
    
    TIME:  Doors open at 10pm
    
    COST:  Tickets are $7.00
    
    MISC:  Show is 21+ -- ID's req.

    
    
    Re;5
    
    
              Brian RoosMYsterrrr, duuuuuuuuude.
    
              Your cheese has slipped off your cracker.
    
    
    
              Rick 
    

So this is the band that does the "I'm going to Disneyland" song?  If so, then
I guess I can say I've heard this band.  I'm a big Rush fan, so I'm interested. 
If they're too loud in concert (and you know there's always the potential for
that), it would be a letdown.

adam

> So this is the band that does the "I'm going to Disneyland" song?  

Nope. Somehow, when the notes got moved from the general discusson topic to
here, a couple extraneous notes got copied over as well.

The band that does "Dizz Knee Land" is called DaDa, and has nothing to do
with Dream Theatre.

alan

re:    <<< Note 2640.25 by DPE::STARR "Two hot girls on a hot summer night" >>>

>The band that does "Dizz Knee Land" is called DaDa, and has nothing to do
>with Dream Theatre.

Oh, I thought the note was saying the song contained a repetitive D-A chord
progression!  That song is a bit repetitive.

Thanks for the clarification (that song is too soft to be Dream Theater, I'd
guess).

adam

When I saw Dream Theater, the volume level was not outragious at all...
I mean I sat at a table and talked with friends during the show.  It
was not nearly as loud as a HardBall show.  :-)

>    It was not nearly as loud as a HardBall show.  :-)                   
    
    Their stage volume was probably low enough that the mains didn't have
    to compete with it...
    
    ;^)

Yeah, yeah...  Well the guy in Dream Theater used a pair of those new
100wt Dual Rectal Fryers, so I bet his stage volume was up there... :-)

;-)

    Ah, come on... Sure they're loud.  Whenever I put the CD on my home
    stereo it's very, very loud. :)

    Actually, on a more interesting topic, I have now listened to the CD
    the requisite three or four times all the way through.  Wonderful band. 
    Great songs.  Just the right amount of excess (although I think the
    "...Part 1" song gets just a liiiiitttle silly).  Reminds me a lot of
    early Kansas (Leftoverture) on steroids, plus DT has the guitar player
    Kansas never did -- eeeoww! Everyone in the band sounds very
    accomplished on their instruments and as I mentioned, I like the
    songwriting quite a bit...  Also as someone (Buck?) mentioned, the
    drummer/bass player are groove city!

    Anyone know who (if anyone in particular) writes most of their music?
    I'm guessing that it's probably the keyboard player.   It seems to me
    that bands like this tend to have a very prolific keyboard player.  If
    so, its refreshing to hear him allow the guitar player to stretch out.
    Usually you end up with a keyboard heavy set of songs and weak guitar
    playing.  Not here.  Although probably blasphemy in this notesfile, I'd
    say if anything the band is guitar heavy.

    Sorry I missed them when they played here.  They had sold out before I
    attempted to buy tickets.

    steve

>    Usually you end up with a keyboard heavy set of songs and weak guitar
>    playing.  Not here.  Although probably blasphemy in this notesfile, I'd
>    say if anything the band is guitar heavy.
    
    Although I haven't heard it in awhile, I remember their first album as
    being very keyboard heavy.  What I've heard of the new one (their
    second, I believe) doesn't seem to be mixed that way.
    
    Greg

    
    REMINDER -- T*O*N*I*G*H*T ... the jaw-dropping performance of Dream
    Theater at Axis, Lansdowne Street, Boston.  Show starts at 10pm.

    
    
        Rats.   
    
        Christmas shopping and a melt down on my snowmobile Saturday night
    has stripped every single cent out of my pocket.
    
        I hope you folks have a blast. I'm sure you will.   Be safe.
    
    
       -Rick.
    

Hey Buck, are they selling advance tix for this, and/or at the door?
And do you think they'll sell out early?

-Lance_who_might_decide_to_go_at_the_last_minute-

    Tix are in advance AND at the door -- $7

    
    
    
        Well?   
    
        Cripes.  WAKE UP!!!    
    
        How did it go?   Who went?   Does the fact that know one is
    speaking mean that all of you spent the night on a cast iron bed
    after tearing the place apart?   (I hate those cast iron beds.)
    
        Or is everyone popping Tylenol to survive?  
    
        Crap.  I am so Fn bummed that I couldn't make it.
    
    
       -Rick.  
    
    

    I went, and it ROOLED.  This band is so awesome ... makes me wanna 
    lock myself away in the woodshed!
    
    
    Fear not, Dream Theater resturns to the the area on January 9th at
    Chapter II (formerly the Escape Club) in Salsbury Beach, MA.
    
    I know I'll be there!

    Rumor has it this ensemble is headed back out CO way.  Sam L., are
    you listening??  8^)

February 9th, Colorado Springs Auditorium - This is a MUST SEE SHOW !!.

I beleive my pal Skip and I are headed over to get tickets tomorrow at lunch.
Send mail if you wanna go.

jc

The city aud? .. what an awful place for a concert.  Last one I saw there was
REO speedwagon and Sugarloaf; week or two after Black Sabbath played there.
pfft....

But, (with best Yosimite Sam voice) I'm a goin' anyway..

    I thought it was the 8th, not the 9th?
    
    gh

    My mistake - The 8th it is !!
    
    Yep, City Auditorium...  Never been there, but I've been to my share
    of "city auditoriums", and can just imagine.
    
    SugarLoaf Steve ??  Me thinks you are showing your age.  :-)
    
    jc (Who saw Steve Vai at the Greenville Auditorium - wagagagaaa...)

    R there still tickets avail for the DT in Co Spgs, City Auditorium?
    
    Send reply to Comet::Vermettec
    
    Thanks

    So, CO-dudes...
    
    How was the show?!?!?

Well, after my third time seeing these guys, I'll upgrade my last comments...
They are *not* just a good band...  These guys are super-human!  

The show went off really well - They played most of "Images And Words" and
a few cuts off their first album...Which I don't own, but I'm learning that
I *need* to own it.  :-)  I expect that the first album is much more technically
oriented.

The only bad comment is the room they played was designed like a friggin'
concrete version of a Voice Of The Theater bass cabinet.  It's was REALLY boomy 
in there.  I expect that I only experienced a little of that, as I was right up 
by the stage.  But I could *feel* the bass bouncing off the far-wall.  Mud-city.

Bummer too, because the bassist is beyond reason!  He does stuff on that 6 
string that mere mortals wouldn't attempt on a guitar.  Wow!

There was a 10 minute drum solo in there that also deserves comment...  Skip 
and I were close enough to the stage so we could see him really well...  He 
played his ASS off and never let off the dbl-bass... (The guy is a metronome!)
And - he didn't even break a sweat!  that blew me away!

Another highlight for me was the singers comment:

"One thing about being in a band like this; I have to give these guys time
 for their instrumental stuff"... 

...at which point they went into a 10 minute jam of epic proportions - Tripling 
   solo passages between keys, bass and guitar. humana, humana!

Yeah, it was a good show despite the muddy bottom end.

Oh, Buck - he's got a new guitar rig:

- (2) Boogie TriAxis preamps
- (1) Boogie 295 power amp
- Korg DT-1 Pro Tuner
- Eventide H3000SH
- TC 2290
- Misc. goodies packed into a 16 space Boogie SUS-4 road case
- (2) Mesa Engineering 4x12's (you know the ones).

Last time I saw them here, he had the matching heads to go with the cabs...

>    I expect that the first album is much more technically oriented.                 
    
    Not from what I remember.  What I've heard from the new album (on the
    radio) sounds much more technical then what I remember from the first
    one.  The first one's got the synths really in your face.
    
    gh

    
      There an axeology on John Patucci's (sic?) guitar rig in the latest
    issue of Guitar World (March '93 - the same one with the Contagious 
    write-up). I noticed the Tri-Axis right off the bat! Getting a GTS
    itch there Coop?
    
      I heard some DT on the Albany, NY station on the way to Massachusetts
    this past Sunday!
    
    							-B{}{}M-

Well, I won't say I've got the itch, but Pertucci has *the* tone!!
(and the chops to match!)

    Well, Petrucci (spell it right, guys, this is a family name!) has a
    great clean tone, when used in conjuction with the TC unit.  His dirty
    rhythm tone is ok imho, but his lead tone is pretty roolin.

    >Well, I won't say I've got the itch, but Pertucci has *the* tone!!
    
    And didn't you say he has a Boogie...
    
    Hmmm.....

I think it's the TC not the Boogie.  Anything can buzz DB.  :-)

jc (kidding - KIDDING!!)

    Good clean tone, good lead tone, rhythm tone just OK.  Fits with my
    experience with Boogie...
    
    Greg

I sent these comments to Greg and Coop offline (us CO folks stick together,
even _outside_ of the notesfile, dontcha know...  :-)), and it was suggested
I go ahead and enter my thoughts here.

Keep in mind, I play all sorts of music from traditional folk and blues
to alternative rock (hi, Greg...  :-)).  I'm not really a H-M player, but
I don't really dislike any style of music so my view(s) are not the same
as some folk.  

All in all, I was impressed with their technical virtuousity,
and all the good stuff - a Great band! - but was put off by the mix and
*****VOLUME******.  My ears are still ringing.  (And they still are, 18
hours later...)

.... at the Dream Theater show last night.  The show was good, but too fargin'
LOUD.  Just as a synopsis:  I know I should have been more prepared given the
KILO (local CO commercial H-M radio station) backing and "heavy metal"
trappings (haven't seen that much lace, leather, and spandex since my last
biker gig :-)), but why on God's green earth do you have to have the PA cranked
so high that my clothes are literally being buffetted against my body when I'm
over 100' from the stage?  The band has amazing technical ability (I think),
but I couldn't hear most individual notes due to the ridiculously high SPL - my
eardrums were already fully compressed.  It's 12 hours since I left the show
and my ears are still ringing.  Next time I venture into "unknown sonic
territory" like that I'll be sure to have my Sonic II Noise Filters with me...
Oh, and don't forget:  All this in a wide open, echo-ing EMPTY (maybe 200
people?  and why so few?) City Auditorium.  Talk about ringing.  (You don't
even want to hear about the first band, "Forth Estate" from "North Colorado",
or as Coop called them "Bad Acid" :-) - definite Satriani wannabes.  Their
drums were mixed so loud you couldn't hear the rest of the band.)

The guys (DT) were amazing techno-rockers, though.  Typical Berklee types, only
now working on fret-burn type stuff instead of fusion.  :-)  I really wish I
could have actually *heard* what the bass player was doing on that 6, but alas
it was not to be, due to the SPL.  Oh, I heard a few tasty pops and riffs, but
wished I could have really heard all he was doing.  I think that sums it up:  I
wish I had been exposed to these guys via CD or tape prior to seeing the show.
Would be nice to know what they really sound like...

-------

Having said that, I really did enjoy the show!  :-)  Seriously, it was good.
I do want to hear their stuff in a more, er, "moderate" setting though.  Really
do wish I could have heard the bass.  I found it funny that their big hit song
was practically the only one that got a decent mix, and that you could really
*HEAR*.  Perhaps this is due to practice and repetition at the board...

Later!

-- Sam (off to busily practice the bass!  :-))

    	So like are your ears ringing or something???? (8')
    
    
    FJE (Still waiting to find the title to their first outing)

I didn't think it was really all-that-loud...  But the sound did suck.
Way muddy, way-bottom-end...

jc

    Why was it so loud?  I've seen this band 5 times now, and only once
    did their sound stink (that was at the Chapter II gig, an ex-
    roller skating rink!!).
    
    ???

Buck,

Same here - I've never seen them where their sound sucked like this - 
but "The Aud" is shaped like a roller rink, is all concrete and
hardwood floors - TERRIBLE acoustics.  Like I said, I don't think it
was really that loud, but the sound man definately blew it.  Remember
Sams analogy of being buffeted by the SPL on his clothing...  That was
about the size of it.  Oh, and there weren't many people there either
(people absorb sound).

I was behind the mains in front of the stage, and it wasn't loud there
at all, but I was still being buffeted by the MASSIVE bass bouncing off
the other end of the "rink"'s concrete wall.  I mean after the show I 
felt like a motorcyclist who'd been riding backwards all day. :-)

That fargin' bassist is AMAZING !  Damn!

jc

    If there weren't that many people tehre, why wasn't Sam up at the stage
    with you, getting the stage mix??

    It was assigned seating only (no "pit").  I presume Sam just sat in the
    seat his ticket indicated.
    
    gh

   Nope, it was general admission.  Sam wasn't up in the "pit" 'cause a) it's
   not my style, and b) I wanted the opportunity to sit down once in a while. 
   I'm an old man, ya know...  :-)  Besides, I was talking to Coop's wife,
   Skip, and some others who were in the audience.  I guess I should have at
   least tried getting behind the mains, but my point was, why do the mains
   have to be that loud in the first place?  90% of the people there ended up
   crushing up to the stage, in back of 'em.  Probably heard the monitors
   more...  :-)  It might have been fitting for, say, the Orpheum in Boston,
   but was 1000% overkill for the Colorado Springs City Auditorium (especially
   given the "acoustics" there - and I use the term loosely).

   And yeah, my ears finally stopped ringing after about the 2nd day.  Thanks
   for asking.

   -- Sam

    
    
       I have alot of stuff to write up today, so I brought along the
    portable CD player and Dream Theater.  Not that it matters a damn
    to anyone...
    
       This is the *only* heavy metal album I like.  My tastes do not
    include Metalica type stuff.   Dream Theater was explained as a 
    cross between Kansas and ELP.  My impression was a cross between 
    Kansas and Styks<sp?>.   I really like the CD with the possible
    exception of the typical HM "chunka-chunka-cha, chunka-chunka-cha"
    riffs.  (NoWhatIMeanVern?)  All in all, a very good album.  
    
       Rated a 6.5 on my list.  
    
       Next on the CD buying list is Jude Cole.
    
       
       Rick.
    
             ** I haven't had a chance to go over and check out the **
             ** Martin Back Packer yet.  Sorry.  I will try to get  **
             ** there soon and post a detail of it.                 **
    
    

    Dream Theater just took the honors in a poll for best progressive band
    in the USENET newsgroup alt.music.progressive.  John Myung took best
    bass honors.
    
    						Brian

    Myung's bass chops horrify me!!

    
    
      Honors? I can see why.  
    
      I would list them as a 9 or a 10 if they didn't fall back on
    to that stereotypical HM thang.  Not slagging your personal tastes
    in music.  Just voicing mine.  
    
      I *really* like the way the album was engineered/produced.
        --------
    
      The drummer is clearly insane.  (Move over Pert.)
    
    
     -Rick.
    

    I like the album produiction, but I don't like how often the bassist
    (Myung) is burried in the mix.  This guy is a demon!!  IMHO he should
    have been louder than the guitarist.  

    Oh yeah, for some context on that USENET poll, the Korg O1/W synth demo
    CD came in about 8th place as "progressive album of the year"...????
    
    						Poindexter

>    I like the album produiction, but I don't like how often the bassist
>    (Myung) is burried in the mix.  This guy is a demon!!  

Ditto on Myung.  The guy is super human!  Skip turns to me and hollers above
the din (mid-show): "Will you *LOOK* at that guy GO?!?!?"...  I dunno if I'd
mix him about Petrucci tho... He's not exactly lame.  :-)

RE: Rick

I think in a previous reply I mentioned something like ELP/Kansas meets Metallica
or something to that effect.  I definately agree that DT is easier to handle if
you like metal, but (IMHO) there is no denying the musical prowess of the band,
regardless of ones taste.

One thing I can't get over:

How the HELL does that singer tour for months and months and months and still 
keep his chops??  I mean, I don't usually pay much attention to vocals (fillers 
between guitar solos, right kids??  :-), but this guy BLAZES and hits it every
damn time!

jc (who can't sleep at night cuz of these guys)

    
        RE: Dream Theater in Heavy Metal mode.
    
        They've _GOT_ to be good, if I like 'em!!!
                                    ---
        Rick             _The_Johnny_Rotten_PIL_type_o_person_       
               |||||
               |||||          
               |||||
                @ @              
                
                ---
    
    

	I've now been listening to their latest CD a couple of times.
	Great band! But I'm still a bit confused though - a lot of
	breaks, tempo changes etc. And I have a problem with the
	drummer - many of his rolls sound computerized? Something aint
	right here! But mostly, I listen to the guitarist - he's not
	so packed with cliches as many other HM players. He also add
	something new to his style - some of it sound like Joe Satriani
	though. I also find the 'typical' HM style annoying and even
	worse: boring. So that part of it I could do without...

	Poul

    Poul writes:
    
    >                    -< which drum machine does he use? >-
    >
    >	I've now been listening to their latest CD a couple of times.
    >	Great band! But I'm still a bit confused though - a lot of
    >	breaks, tempo changes etc. And I have a problem with the
    >	drummer - many of his rolls sound computerized? Something aint
    >	right here!
    
    Not sure if this was tongue in cheek or not?!  Anywho, those Berklee
    drummers are taught to be human metronomes -- they practice with 
    those beeping things for HOURS on end...  I've seen them madly plugged
    into their metronomes drumming away with their rolls, as to achieve
    perfect timing.  Maybe this DT drummer has just *really* got it down?!

    Re: .70, .101
    
    Is his name Roland?
    
    8^)

Well, I've seen him live three times now - and he IS a human metronome.
There are no wires from his kit, and he is the hottest thing to come along 
since Professor Peart.  :-)

jc - who is bummin', cuz the wife stole the CD et me have it back...

    	Does he use all acoustic drums?.. The disc doesn't sound like it,
    they sound sampled or very processed. I can barely decern what the bass
    player is playing other that rythmic bottom.
    
    FJE

    > And I have a problem with the drummer - many of his rolls sound 
    > computerized?
    
    I wouldn't be surprised if the reason you get that impression is
    because he is triggering sampled drums from his acoustic kit.
    
    That's very popular in recording these days.  We're recording some
    tunes and decided to go that route.
    
    This wouldn't make his roll timings perfect, but drum rolls tend to
    sound very machine-like (actually "machine gun" like) when you use
    a drum machine (because it uses the same sample for a roll that it
    uses for a regular hit).
    
    In fact, I remember listening to DT in the car the other day with Rob
    and making the comment that it really sounded to me like he was using
    sampled drums.  The hits on the snare were just too homogenous.
    
    	db

> he is triggering sampled drums from his acoustic kit.
> This wouldn't make his roll timings perfect, 

I'll be there's a good chance that they take the MIDI signals and throw
them into a sequencer - then they can quantitize that sucker and make sure
that they really are perfectly timed....

alan

    It wouldn't make the timing perfect but the sound for each hit is the
    same. There's no natuaral variances that you would get from real
    drums.
    
    FJE

    FWIW, that's one of the things I hate about sampled drums, the lack of
    variance.  A drum can be an expressive instrument in that it sounds
    different depending on how hard you hit it and where and that seems to
    get lost with the triggered stuff.  I like the dynamics you can hear
    with the real article.
    
    Greg

    Well, y'all might be right, but I didn't see any wires on his kit 
    (is there a wireless trigger kit??  :-), and he sounds the same way
    live...  I still wouldn't be suprised if he didn't and wouldn't
    hold it against him,...  :-)
    jc

    Some of the more recent drum machines do very realistic "variances"
    (actually I think Roland calls it "nuances").
    
    For most things it works pretty effectively, but the snare is hard.
    
    It took them years and years to get to where they are with digital
    pianos - the snare drum is like the digital piano of the drums.
    
    But they are making progress.  Used to be that even the best drum
    machines (for example) did not have "brush hits".  Now many of them do.
    
    It's interesting to note that the new Roland TD-7 drum brain allows you
    to do Hi-hat things that I never thought we'd see anytime soon.  Like
    you can vary the degree to which the HH is "open", and you can even
    do things that don't involve hitting anything but the foot pedal:
    like a "foot closed" HH sound that you get by slapping the thing shut
    with your foot, or a "splash" which is the crash sound you get by
    closing the pedal and then quickly opening it again.
    
    It basically has a special foot pedal that tells it where the pedal
    is (not just the usual trigger "he hit it" type signals).
    
    I'm reading thru the TD-7 manual now (our drummer got one) and finding
    lots of neat things.
    
    	db

	Re .78 (Greg),

	Exactly my words! The 'equalization' of the drum beats and the
	un-natural sound especially of the snare drum is what I imme-
	diately noticed on this CD. As said, it takes away the natural
	expression of the drums, and even tires your ears. In older days,
	I could play my favourite LPs ***thousands*** of times, and
	still enjoy it - with recordings like this, this is not possible
	any more - my ears start to hurt from the over-perfect sound...

	Of course I can hear this guy is a maniac drummer, they just
	remove every expression in the post-recording process! IMO, the
	perfect drumsound is completely natural, I like to hear the snare
	drum rattle when he kicks the bass drum, etc. On some of the old
	Jeff Beck recordings ('Blow By Blow'?), you can hear the single
	coils on his strat hum big time on a quiet passage - this gives
	the impression that he's actually *playing* that f*cking thing!
	And on some of the old Led Z recordings, the bass drum pedal nee-
	ded some oiling, you could hear the eeek-eeek sound every time
	he kicked it (admitted, this was perhaps a bit annoying :-).

	All this to say, they used to favour the playing - which gave us
	some wonderful recordings with all their minor flaws - nowadays
	they favour the recording itself - and loose it completely...

	Poul

    re: Coop                                                            
    
>    Well, y'all might be right, but I didn't see any wires on his kit 
>    (is there a wireless trigger kit??  :-), and he sounds the same way
>    live...  I still wouldn't be suprised if he didn't and wouldn't
>    hold it against him,...  :-)
    
    I think the real question would be whether you saw any mikes on his
    kit when you saw him live (but that may not tell either, since if I
    remember correctly, mikes can be used as triggers too).
    
    If you didn't see any wires at all (like, no mike cables), then
    something's very wrong...
                             
    re: db
    
>    It's interesting to note that the new Roland TD-7 drum brain allows you
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^
    
    What's wrong with this phrase?  "Drums" and "brain" should *never* be
    used in the same sentence!  ;^)
    
    re: Poul
    
> As said, it takes away the natural
>	expression of the drums, and even tires your ears. In older days,
>	I could play my favourite LPs ***thousands*** of times, and
>	still enjoy it - with recordings like this, this is not possible
>	any more - my ears start to hurt from the over-perfect sound...
 
    I've been thinking about stuff like this a lot lately, since I've been
    getting more and more into recording, and I think this is one of those
    intangible reasons a lot of people like older music better.  I don't
    think it's because modern music is not as good, I think it's because
    today's recording techniques and production emphasis is so perfect. 
    The technology has gotten so good that everything can be incredibly
    pristine, but I wonder if it doesn't lose some intangible something in
    the process.  
    
    It's like years ago, a band would go into a studio and soak a nice 8
    track or 16 track (max) analog tape with their music, there wasn't a
    lot of extra for excessive overdubs and what-have-you.  Now a band goes
    into the studio and there's a 48 track digital machine sitting there,
    and they seem to think they have to use them all.  I question what all
    those overdubs do to the final product.  It sounds wonderful, but it's
    tiring to listen to.  Some people claim that it's digital, but I'm
    starting to wonder if it's just too complex for the ear to take in. 
    Kind of like talking to a friend in a crowded room, you basically have
    to subconsciously ignore things that don't relate directly to what
    you're listening to, so that you can hear what you're interested in.
    
    Greg

>>    Well, y'all might be right, but I didn't see any wires on his kit 
>>    (is there a wireless trigger kit??  :-), and he sounds the same way
>>    live...  

>    I think the real question would be whether you saw any mikes on his
>    kit when you saw him live (but that may not tell either, since if I
>    remember correctly, mikes can be used as triggers too).
 
    FYI -- speaking as someone whos a sound engineer, and has seen this 
    band 5 times live, they DO use live mics on REAL drums.  The band's
    live setup is very simple -- Keys go direct into their own sub-group,
    bass goes direct, guitar is mic'ed in stereo into board, there is only
    one vocalist, and there are about 15 channels of drum mics (this guy
    uses a LOT of percussion live!!).  They only thing they use to sweeten
    the drum sound is eq, compression, and a touch of reverb.
    
    
    >If you didn't see any wires at all (like, no mike cables), then
    >something's very wrong...
    
    Did you look Coop?  The drums all have those "clip" mic holders.  Every
    drum had one.  Don't know why you didn't see these???  (except the kit
    is black, as are the mic's (sm57's) and mic cables, so...
    

    This discussion is getting a bit warped based on misunderstanding
    of the technology.  Sorta reminds me of the old PRC comment about
    how he hoped his guitar players new processor was the kind that did
    sampling cause PRC wanted him to sample some famous players sound
    so that his band could have that sound (...it don't work that way).
    
>    Well, y'all might be right, but I didn't see any wires on his kit 
>    (is there a wireless trigger kit??  :-), and he sounds the same way
>    live...  I still wouldn't be suprised if he didn't and wouldn't
>    hold it against him,...  :-)
    
    First of all, we could be talking about two things here: the sound of
    his drums, and the "perfect timing".
    
    If you heard perfect timing live, then trust me, the guy has perfect
    timing.  Triggers aren't going to help you fake that live, only in
    the studio.  There's no shortage of guys with incredible timing.
    
    I doubt he uses triggers for live shows.
    
    In any case, I seriously doubt this guy is using any technology to
    make it sound like he has chops he doesn't have.  There (still) not
    much you can do with technology in that way live.
    
    I don't view it as wrong to use technology such as triggering MIDI
    drums to get a better sound in the studio - I suspect that's all he
    did.

>  There's no shortage of guys with incredible timing.

Maybe where you live...

gh    

>  There's no shortage of guys with incredible timing.

Yike man, bite your tongue!!  I see very few around here, and I'd
have to say I've worked with TWO drummers who had good timing...
And zillions who justify the jokes about their door knocking tempo.
:-)

    Based on all the comments in this note and after hearing Pull Me Under
    a bunch of times on the radio, I went out and bought the CD.  WHOA!
    Now I see what all the buzz is about.  That drummer can't be human!
    
    Dave

    I like the drummer. I'm a guitarist, so I'd like to tlk baout the
    effects they used on TAKE THE TIME. Some of the partsa in the song
    sound as if the keys are playing or that the guitar has a synthesized
    pick up (maybe MIDI). I'm not sure the tone doesn't click with me. I
    love the song and the entire album and can't wait to here the other
    parts to Metropolis (if any). They are a tight group. I know where they
    studied but doesn't mean they have to play that way. Great stuff !
    
    Chris Vermette

    I'm with you Chris, bag the drums...  :-)
    
    On Take The Time, the guitar played, bassist and keyboardist
    double up and triple up on the lead lines.  Yep!  Thats right,
    the keyboarder and bassist follow him note for note!  You need
    to see it live to beleive it.  Wow!
    
    Petrucci uses (last time I saw him) a pair of Boogie TriAxis preamps,
    a 295 Simulclass power amp, a pair of MESA armadillo 4x12's, an Eventide
    H3000 and a TC2290.  He uses a Korg DT-1 Pro Tuner to tune with.  Big
    $$ items here...
    jc

    re: -1 (2640.89)
    
    > an Eventide H3000 and a TC2290. 
    I'm slightly familiar with the Eventide, is that what gave the guitar
    the synth sound. It really began to get annoying ...
    I love the song though, very progressive. 
    I tickled pink that Progressive music is beginning to make a return. 
    Especially when good musicians are doing it!
    
    Chris "Someday my fingers will be that fast and acurate" Vermette

What I was getting at Chris, is that I don't think you are hearing a 
guitar-type-synth on Metropolis, but an actual keyboard driven synth, 
that is doubling the guitar lines...

    Buck posted a (massive) interview with the drummer in HM.
    
    We can lay all these burning questions about the drummer to rest.
    
    As I suspected, on the record, they did use a sampled drum sound
    that was triggered from the snare drum (actually, from the snare
    track).
    
    The drummer said this was done at the insistence of the producer under
    his objection.  His beef with it is that it sounds big when it's 
    supposed to sound big, but also sounds big when it's NOT supposed
    to sound big which is basically what made me suspect that it was
    a sample.
    
    Or more simply put, everything I said in .75 and .84 appears to have
    been correct.
    
    Note however that while the snare "sound" you are hearing is sampled,
    the "performance" is not at all enhanced.  He played every note, they
    way you hear it.
    
    If you're not familiar with the technology, the most simple way to
    describe it is that they took the recording of his snare sound and
    replaced it with a different sound.  But they did not, for example,
    "correct" any timing errors or anything like that.

    db speaks truth -- below is the exerpt from the interview on the snare
    discussion:
    

Interviewer: Is the snare drum sound a triggered sample?

Mike: [snort].. yes. Unfortunately... that wasn't my choice, it
      was forced upon me by our producer. But I won't get into
      that.

Int: It sounds nice and punchy, though.

Mike: Yeah, it's punchy, but... It's big when it's supposed to be
      big, but it's also big when it's not supposed to be big.

Int: Was that the only thing, because I can't tell if the rim
     clicks and stuff were samples also...

Mike: There was an occasional acoustic snare drum mixed in, I
      mean, we recorded all my natural drum sounds, and then had
      the option of triggering it, so at times, when it was
      really dynamic or there were a lot of intricate parts going
      on, we tried to mix in the acoustic snare sound as much as
      possible. But, that's the one thing that bothers me about
      the album is some of the stuff on the drum sounds. I think
      they sound great overall, but there's a lot of fine-tuning
      that I would have personally liked to have done, but, you
      know... that's another story.
    

    regarding 2640.91
    I guess so. I listened to it more during the week and noticed the
    doubled sound.
    
    Chris Vermette

    BAILIFF !!
    :-)

Article 6322 of alt.guitar.tab:
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From: [email protected] (Ernest S. Lai)
Subject: DREAM THEATER TAB!!!(METRO PT1)
Sender: [email protected] (The Network News)
Reply-To: [email protected] (Ernest S. Lai)
Organization: Columbia University

Here's some tab for metropolis pt.1.  I figured out most of the intro and that
neat part at 8:04.  More tab should be on the way if I have enough time to
figure some out.  Enjoy!

Metropolis Pt. 1
note : most 0's on the E string are palm muted but I am not bothering to 
notate that.  If a 0 is by itself, generally it is supposed to be palm muted.
*means harmonics
intro:
  w/ delay
e---------
B---------
G---------
D---------
A---------
E--0-0-0--etc. (listen to record for rhythm)

(0:40)                                         * dive w/bar
e---------------------------3------------------7\-------------
B-----------------------------3------------------\------------
G-----------------------5-------5-----------------------P-----
D------4-5-2--------4-5-5--------------4-5-2----------/7-5----
A------4-5-2--------4-5-3--------------4-5-2------------------
E--0-0-2-3-0----0-0-2-3------------0-0-2-3-0------------------

e-----------------------------------------------------
B----------------------------------------------------- not too sure about
G----------5----------tr~~---------------------------- this part listen to
D------4-5-5--------2-4(5)\--------4-5-2------2-----2- record for rhythm
A------4-5-3---/3-5----------------4-5-2-------------- 
E--0-0-2-3---------------------0-0-2-3-0--0-0---0-0--- etc.

e----------------------------------0-0---0-0---0-0---0-0---0-0--
B-------------------------------/5----/7----/8---/10---/12------
G----------5----------------------------------------------------
D------4-5-5----5-4-2-------------------------------------------
A------4-5-3----------5-3-2-------------------------------------
E--0-0-2-3------------------5-0---------------------------------
                                          * * * *
e---------------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------------------------------------
G----------5----------tr~~----------------------5/\/\/\---
D------4-5-5--------2-4(5)-------4-5-2--------5-----------
A------4-5-3---/3-5--------------4-5-2------5-------------
E--0-0-2-3-------------------0-0-2-3-0----4---------------


(8:04) let ring->
e--------0------------------------------------0------
B----------3---------3--------------3-------3--------
G------4-----4-----4---4----------0---0---2-------4--  repeats are similar
D----4-----------4--------------4-------0------------  with some variations
A--2-----------2--------------2-----------------0----
E---------------------------0------------------------

 
Have fun!!

____ __________________________________________________________________
|   _                                                                 |
| Th s is my first attempt at a sig.     (  *  \@!  ^^^  8-  <><>     |
|   i                                      O -_-_-_-_ $%   \/\/\/     |
| Pl ase feel free to send comments/suggestions  []  ***  ### ! + \   |
|   e                                           //  \/  ( ( {{{  XX   |
| to [email protected]            ~~~// ^~`  %% >|| -)(    |
|   :                                            _-------_  /------\  |
|___ _________________________________________________________________|

Article 6530 of alt.guitar.tab:
Organization: Freshman, CIT general, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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Newsgroups: alt.guitar.tab
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:37:12 -0500 
From: Christopher Brian Heiser <[email protected]>
Subject: Dream Theatre stuff....

Ok...this is all I could figure out for "Pull Me Under" off Dream
Theatre's new CD "Images And Words"

-----------Pull Me Under-----------
---------By Dream Theatre----------

Intro:
let ring.....
---------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------0----
----2-0--------0--------0--------0----2------
-------------4--------0-------------0--------
-------------------------------3-------------
-0--------0--------0--------0----------------
repeat with E5 chords in the background, synth, etc.

Riff 1: repeat a few times...
pm----|     pm-------|   pm---|     pm-------|
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
-------2------------------------------------------------
-------2-5------------5--------4-5------------5---------
-------0-5------------5--------4-5------------5---------
-0-0-0---3--0--0--0-0-3--0-0-0-2-3--0--0--0-0-3---------

pm----|     pm-------|   pm---|     pm---|  pm
--------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
-------6-7----------------------------------------------
-------6-7------------5--------2-3--------3---3---------
-------4-5------------5--------2-3--------3---3---------
-0-0-0------0--0--0-0-3--0-0-0-0-1--0--0--1-0-1---------

The next riff is similar, but E5 is occasionally substituted for the
palm muted open notes on the e string.  You need to listen to the album
to get the feel.

The verses have alternating E5 and F5 chords, while the base plays minor
or penatonic licks in the background.

The chorus is all 5 chords, in this pattern:

[A5]Pull me under, [G5]pull me under,
[F#5]pull me under, I'm [G5]not [F#5]afraid[E5]

[A5] [B5] [C5] [D5] [E5] [F5] [E5]
can't remember the rest of the chorus...sorry

The solo is...ahh..well...impossible for me to hear, let alone *play*

If anyone wants to take a stab at it, please do.
corrections are welcome.
    -ch




Article 6584 of alt.guitar.tab:
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From: ep9101@eehp23 (Eric David Persson)
Subject: TAB: "PULL ME UNDER" by DREAM THEATER
Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 07:38:57 GMT
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected] (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 62

   
Christopher Brian Heiser <[email protected]>
writes:
>Intro:
>let ring.....
>---------------------------------------------
>----------------------------------------0----
>----2-0--------0--------0--------0----2------
>-------------4--------0-------------0--------
>-------------------------------3-------------
>-0--------0--------0--------0----------------
>repeat with E5 chords in the background, synth, etc.

I think that one of the notes is incorrect ( the first open D note)
Here's the way that I play it.
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
--------0------------0-------------------------------0----
-----7------------4-------------0---------0--------2------
------------------------------4---------3--------0--------
-0-------------0----------0---------0---------------------

A few E power chords followed by a C, D E sequence.
at 1:15     play twice
----------------|----------------|----------------|----------------|
----------------|----------------|----------------|----------------|
----------------|----------------|----------------|----------------|
----7-5-------5-|----4-5-------5-|----6-5-------5-|----5-5---7-----|
----7-5-------5-|----4-5-------5-|----4-5-------5-|----3-3---5-----|
000-----0-0-0---|000-----0-0-0---|000-----0-0-0---|000-----00------|


And then a rythmic variation
at 1:34    play twice
----------------|----------------|----------------|----------------|
----------------|----------------|----------------|----------------|
----------------|----------------|----------------|----------------|
----7-5---5---5-|----4-5---5---5-|----6-5---5---5-|----5-5---7-----|
----7-5---5---5-|----4-5---5---5-|----4-5---5---5-|----3-3---5-----|
000-----00--00--|000-----00--00--|000-----00--00--|000-----00------|

Now with verse
at 2:00
E|----------------|----------------|--------------------------------|--------------------------------|
B|55--55--55--55--|88--88--88--88--|1010----1010----1010----1010----|1313----1313----1313----1313----|
G|44--44--44--44--|55--55--55--55--|9-9-----9-9-----9-9-----9-9-----|1212----1212----1111----1111----|

I'm not sure about the rest of the song so I can post at this time.
This is the first time I've posted tab on the net so I welcome comments and suggestions.
Does every body else type these by hand or is there a program that creates tab?


Eric Persson

Keep on trying to transcribe these DREAM THEATER songs.  I saw them live and they 
were incredible, so if you get a chance check them out.

[email protected]

sorry about the last part, I'll repost again later.

USENET is Humbug!
    
METROPOLIS PART 1 - INTRO Section


   E5   w/Delay (3 repeats)
E----------------------------------------------------------------
B----------------------------------------------------------------
G----------------------------------------------------------------
D----------------------------------------------------------------
A--2----2----2----2---2----2----2---2-2----2----2---2----2----2--
E--0000-0----0000-0---0----0000-0---0-0----0000-0---0----0000-0--


                                                       High B  pull up and
      D/F# G5 E5      D/F# G5 C5 (add 9)   D/F# G5 E5  Harm.   drop open g
E--------------------------------3------------------------------------
B----------------------------------3----------------------------------
G-----------------------------5------5----------------<1 1/4>--0/--0\-
D-------4--5--2---------4--5--5--------------4--5--2------------------
A-------5--5--2---------5--5--3--------------4--5--2------------------
E--0-0--2--3--0----0-0--2--3------------0-0--2--3--0------------------


      D/F# G5 C5  (Octave line asc.)             D/F# G5 E5
E-------------------------------------------------------------------
B-------------------------------------------------------------------
G-------------5---/5---/7---/9---/11-/12-\11------------------------
D-------4--5--5------------------------------------4--5--2----------
A-------5--5--3---/3---/5---/7---/9--/10-\9--------5--5--2----7----7
E--0-0--2--3----------------------------------0-0--2--3--0--00-0000-

 
                  D/F# G5 C5  (Octave line desc.)                E5  
E-------------------------------------------------------------------
B-------------------------------------------------------------------
G-------------------------5---/12---\11--\9---\7---\5---\4--\2------
D-------------------4--5--5--------------------------------------2--
A----7----7--7------5--5--3---/10---\9---\7---\5---\3---\2---0---2--
E--00-0000-00-0000--2--3-----------------------------------------0--


      Slide     Sl.      Sl.      Sl.         Sl.
E--0--0--0---0-0--0---0-0--0---0-0--0----0--0---0----
B-----3-/5---5-5-/7---7-7-/9---9-9-/10---10-10-/12---
G----------------------------------------------------
D----------------------------------------------------
A----------------------------------------------------
E----------------------------------------------------


      D/F# G5 C5  (Octave line asc.)             D/F# G5 E5  Harmonics
E------------------------------------------------------------------------
B------------------------------------------------------------------------
G-----------5---/5---/7---/9---/11-/12--/14------------------------<5>*--
D-----4--5--5--------------------------------------4--5--2-------<5>-----
A-----5--5--3---/3---/5---/7---/9--/10--/12--------5--5--2-----<5>-------
E--0--2--3------------------------------------0-0--2--3--0---<4>---------

*Vibrato harmonic up 1 1/4 step with bar

PULL ME UNDER - Dream Theater

INTRO:
    
-------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------0----
-----0-------0-------0--------0-----2------
---7-------4----------------------0--------
-------------------4--------3--------------
-0-------0-------0--------0----------------


Guitar 2 enters...  
(D chord is slid into the E)         |1st ending   |2nd ending
-------------------------------------------------|-------------
-------------------------------------------------|-------------
-7--9------7--9-----7--9-------7--9----5--5---7--|---5--5------
-7--9------7--9-----7--9-------7--9----5--5---7--|---5--5---3--
-5--7------5--7-----5--7-------5--7----3--3---5--|---3--3---3--
------0---------0--------0----------0--3--3---5--|---3--3---1--

Riff 1: 
pm--|       pm--|    pm-|      pm---|   etc.                    | 1st ending
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------6-------------------4--5--7
------7--5--------2-------4--5--------2-------6--5--------2-------4--5--7
------7--5--------2-------4--5--------2-------4--5--------2-------2--3--5
-000--5--3--0-0-0-0--000--2--3--0-0-0-0--000--------0-0-0-0--000--2--3--5


|2nd ending
---------------
---------------
-4--5----------
-4--5---3------
-2--3---3------
-2--3---1------

CHORUS:
    
A5
Pull me under, pull me under, pull me under, I'm 

F5           G5   A5              G/B C5                 D5    F5  
not a-fraid       All that I feel is  honor and spite...


-----------------------
-----------------------
---H-------------------  Repeat this figure 4 Times
--0-2------------------
--------2---------2----
-----0--0-0-0--00-0--00


The "dust fills me eyes" part                     
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------7------7-----
-----------------------------------------------------------7------7-----
-------------5---7-5-7----5-7-5---------------5--7-5---x-x-5--x-x-5-----
--0--3--5-7---------------------7---0--3--5-7--------8------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------7------7
----------------------------------------------------------------7------7
-------------5---7-5-7----5-7-(trill)-------------5--7-5----x-x-5--x-x-5
--0--3--5-7----------------------------0--3--5-7---------8--------------

    

    The latest GP (with page/coverdale on the cover) has a COMPLETE
    transcription of PULL ME UNDER in it.
    
    Thar ya go, Coop ... no more ear straining!  ;')

    Do you mean GP?  I got a GP this week with Eddie VanHalen on the cover.
    
    Do you mean GPFTM or GW?  Or am I a month behind (last month's GP had
    Beck on the cover, if memory serves).
    \Gary

    
    
      Playing at the Boston Music Awards will be...
    
    
    
      Aerosmith
    
    
    
     
     Extreme
    
    
    
    
    
     and  Dream Theater.
    
    
    
    Sounds like a good time to me.
    
     
    Rick.
    
    

    Pull Me Under is in the new Guitar World (so is Spirit of the Radio).

    Cake!
    
    :-)

    
      Didn't you transcribe that one Coop? B-}
    
      						-B{}{}M-

    Got the GW mag with this trans.  in it out of curiosity,
    and at least one section is wrong!  8^(

    Your section or their's ;-)

    RE: Boom
    
    >       <<< Note 2640.107 by POWDML::BUCKLEY "am i ever gonna change?"
    >
    >    Got the GW mag with this trans.  in it out of curiosity,
    >    and at least one section is wrong!  8^(
     
    Looks like it.  :-) 
    
    jc - Who def. doesn't play it perfect...  :-)

    RE: Mike
    
    The "this world is spinning around me" part -- they transbriced it
    in first position on the bottom 4 strings, when the lines are
    played on the low e and a strings ascending up the neck to the
    15th position.

    
    
      Just thinking over that part "this world is spinning around me",
    and the tonality - I think Buck is right. Of course he's already seen
    Patrucci rip it off live and I haven't - YET!
    
    							-B{}{}M-

I heard that Dream Theater was going to be at Riverside Park this weekend.
It is supposed to be a free concert ( you will of course have to pay $$ admission)

There is another band opening up for them although I don't recall the name.

Bob

    Galactic Cowboys and Dream Theater this Friday, July 9th, at Riverside
    Park in Agawam, MA.  Parking is $3.00, and admission to the park is
    $18. -- that includes all rides and admission to the concert.
    
    Ride the CYCLONE in the back seat ... a good example of the term
    "negative gravity"!

    I went, I saw, I enjoyed.
    
    Petrucci, of course, isn't even worthy of being Morse's roadie, but
    of course no one is.  ;-)
    
    
    
    Just kidding - to be honest, I was particularly impressed with
    Petrucci.  Even more so than what I heard on the albums.  The guy
    definitely makes an interesting statement in nearly everything he
    plays and that's what all the people I call "great" (Morse, Eric
    Johnson, Satch) do.
    
    In fact, Petrucci's weakest category may be soloing!
    
    To be honest, I found what he was doing in the instrumental and vocal
    sections to be much more interesting and innovative musically than
    a lot of the flashy solos (which were still fantastic).
    
    Also, the guy gets GREAT tone live.  Ironically, the only tone he did
    all night that I found weak was probably the most important: the 
    opening notes in "Pull Me Under"!!!  I mean that's almost like the
    signature tone of the album and in concert it sounded like a twangy
    strat going thru a Fender Champ - i.e. way too thin for the song.
    
    He's also amazing at duplicating the record, both in tone and
    performance.  He played a lot of the solos pretty much note-for-note
    with what's on the album.
    
    Now I know that a lot of people might fault him for that, or think it's
    a weakness in his improvisation skills or something like that, but I
    actually credit him for that.
    
    On the album, many of those solos are really (to my mind) part of the
    composition and therefore should be played live.  In some sense they
    are part of the songs signature.    I actually wish Morse would do that
    MORE often than he does.
    
    Bad parts: the drum and guitar solo sections were BOARRRR -  RRRING!
    
    If there was anyone of those guys I wanted to hear do a solo it was
    John Myung.  I found it very hard to hear what he was playing.
    
    Moore's keyboards may rank among the very best keyboard sound I've ever
    heard live.  In the right places, he really filled up the sonic space.
    
    Another area I was impressed was how smoothly they went thru all the
    time signatures, stops and crazy unison/harmony sections.   You can
    tell they had rehearsed those to death because to these areas, those
    sections were often a LOT tighter sounding than some of the easier
    sections!
    
    Also, geez, why don't the other guys sing backup!  I've long felt that
    anyone capable of playing a melodic instrument to the extent that these
    guys do should at least be able to sing on key.  Lots of times the song
    sounded weak due to the absence of background vocals.
    
    In fact, when they started "Take the Time" I thought "this is going to
    sound so weak w/o the backing vocals" but right at the point where the
    backing vocals come in, the Galactic Cowboys ran out and sang that
    backing vocals and it sounded killer.
    
    ANyway, the concert sorta strengthened my interest in the band.   The
    songs really play very well in a live context - maybe even better than
    the record.
    
    But Petrucci still ain't no Morse Bucked-head!!!  ;-)

    How were the Galactic Cowboys?  I know very little about them but have
    heard that they have great vocals, and are Christian oriented.  What
    didja think about them?
    
    							Brian

    We arrived late - Dream Theater was already on.
    
    I only knew they were Galactic Cowboys coz Rob had seen them before
    and recognized them.

    
    Cool review db!  ('Cept for the crass comments about Morse, but I 
    considered the source.  :-).
    
    I dunno what it is about DT - with one of the BEST bass-playin'-animals
    alive, why the continually bury him in the mix...The album is like that
    too.  What a smoker tho!!
    
    Check out the little bass-solo/fill thin he does in Metropolis. 
    Sheesh.
    
    So, ya gonna buy a TriAxis now that you've heard Petrucci live??
    :-)
    jc
       

>    Cool review db!  ('Cept for the crass comments about Morse, but I 
>    considered the source.  :-).
    
    Nay, consider the subject (Morse), and they aren't crass at all.
    Merely stating the obvious.  ;-)
    
>    So, ya gonna buy a TriAxis now that you've heard Petrucci live??
    
    If I had the money I definitely would.  But basically I'm not playing
    much guitar these days: one song we no longer do with Citadel, and
    maybe half a set every third gig with db wilfred.
    
    Just can't justify it on that basis.
    
    	db - keyboard player

    You mean for an *entire* half a set every once in a while you can
    *tolerate* anything short of a Tri-Axis after you've heard one live ???
    Your ears must be going. ;-)
    
    Paul

    Well db, you nailed that TONE comment re: Petrucci.  :-)

    Paul,
    
    > You mean for an *entire* half a set every once in a while you can
    > *tolerate* anything short of a Tri-Axis after you've heard one live
    > ???    Your ears must be going. ;-)
    
    Hey, I do have a classic Mesa Boogie Mark II2B (considered the
    "classic" model of Boogie - the one that Carlton, Santana, etc.
    used for a long time).  I even have the wood cabinet with the
    wicker grill.
    
    That ain't exactly cheese.
    
    On the other hand, you do start to wonder if it's worth it when you
    drag it around (it weighs 80lbs!) and set it up all the time and half
    the time you never even turn it on.
    
    Perhaps a Tri-Axis run thru my keyboard amp would be lighter - hmmm...
    where's my check book?  ;-)

    >On the other hand, you do start to wonder if it's worth it when you
    >drag it around (it weighs 80lbs!) and set it up all the time and half
    
    I can relate to the weigth thing db, my rack weighs 80lbs *empty*!
    UPS wouldn't touch it!!
                                                                     

    >>my rack weighs 80lbs *empty*!
    
    seriously? wattz it made of?!

    Not to bludgeon the "Boogie talk", but I use a MK-IIB also, & I've yet
    to hear a nicer sounding one. The Dual Rectifier is a possible
    contender; the MK-IV has some decent switching options, but I haven't
    played with it yet. SOB's, .50's & .22's just might be that "cheese"
    you were looking for. I also have a MK-I which sounds great no matter
    what you do to it. 
    I just don't think I'll be really content until I can play the Tri-Axis
    through a pair of MK-II's (instead of one of those stereo "rack puke"
    things).
    The scary part for me is I can actually afford a Tri-Axis if I juggle
    the numbers a little (& clear it with my daughter's mom !) & I'm not
    even gigging right now. It's tough to differentiate between "need" &
    "one-up-manship" when it comes to the Tri-Axis. Problem is, the thing
    sounds *incredible* !
    Paul 

    RE .11:
    2 Big motha' transformers & a speaker plus the usual steel chassis &
    wood cabinet (with wheels).
    
    Believe me, they're HEAVY.
    
    Paul

    It's made of 5/8" plywood, covered with ABS stuff, aluminum corners
    and has shock mounted rails - It's MASSIVE...But I could drop it off 
    a truck and I don't think it would be hurt.  The castor truck probably
    weighs more than your average 12 spacer...  Worst is, I only use
    four spaces in it.  :-(  (Soon to be 3 1/2 spaces?? Buy my Quad!!)

     >It's tough to differentiate between "need" & "one-up-manship....
    
    I know, I know, it's always hard to convince yerself or your spouse to
    buy something when you only "need" it......the "one-up-manship" always
    werx faster for me:
    
    "honey I need this new suite of guitar toys because Hermmy just got
    them, and the ones I want are a tad better."
    
    "Go ahead dear, as long as you don't really need them, I support you"
    
    "what a wife!"
                                         

    How good is Dream Theatre's album? Are all the songs as good as Hold
    Me Under?  How would describe the music? 
    [dumb questions, but I'm thinking about getting the cd]
    
    j

    RE .16:
    If you're not sure, just get the "promo copy" for $2.00. I think you
    can order it directly through DREGS::BLICKSTEIN. ;-)
    
    Paul

    DREAM THEATER ROOOLZ!!!!
    
    By the way, they are playing their LAST show on their current US tour
    THIS SUNDAY at the Hampton Beach Casino!!  Tix are $13, $16 day of
    show.  Doors open at 6pm, show starts at 8pm, Galactic Cowboys (exc.
    christian rock band) are opening.
    
    Everyone will probably have a different synopsys for how to categorize
    DT's music.  For me, it's 'Art Rock with an Attitude'!  Sort of like
    Yes meets Weather Report meets Rush meets Metallica.  Everyone in the
    band is a top-notch musician, and they really get to shed their chops
    in the show.  
    
    The album, Images and Words, is a masterpiece!!  BUY IT...NOW!

    re: .16
    
    I think there are a bunch of songs I like easily as much as "Hold Me
    Under": "Take the Time", "Metropolis", "Surrounded", etc.
    
    > How would [you] describe their music.
    
    That's really tough.  While I hear influences, they definitely do NOT
    sound like anyone else.
    
    Unfortunately, answers to questions like that seem to inevitably get
    couched in terms of other bands.
    
    The briefest summary to me would be "Rush meets Heavy Metal in Kansas". 
    
    The heavy metal comes from their sound.  Crunchy guitars, double-bass,
    screaming vibrato vocals, flashy fast music.   However, these guys have
    a much larger vocabulary than standard metal (which I love, don't get
    me wrong).  
    
    The Rush part comes from their pre-dilection with unusual time
    signatures, and to a lesser extent their lyrical content.  However,
    and I know to some this will seem like heresy, I'm not a big Rush fan
    and I've always felt that Rush strives to write great tunes in odd
    time signatures by forcing themselves to fit ideas into odd meters.
    Dream Theatre, at least to these ears, write great tunes that happen
    to use odd meters now and then.   It doesn't sound "forced".
    
    So at the risk of being shot by an irate Rush fan, I think these guys
    do much better with odd meters than Rush.  [Shields up].
    
    I also mentioned Kansas: well... they don't sound anything like Kansas
    to me (other people have made comparisons to Kansas though), but they
    do seem to have a compositional approach similar to Kansas in that
    they often steer away from "verse/chorus/bridge" and sorta write in
    a more symphonic way - with sections, variations, re-statements, 
    re-capitulation, etc.
    
    I must tell you this though: after hearing Buck and our drummer (Rob
    Rothberg if you know him) rave about DT for weeks, I decided to get the
    album.  I listened to it one time and thought "what are those guys
    raving about - this sucks".   I listened to it about 10 more times - 
    no change.   For reasons which even I don't understand, I kept
    listening to it.
    
    Now, it's definitely the best album I bought all year.  It's also
    exciting because it's the emergence of a great band (they are all
    technical monsters but more importantly, they write heady, artistic
    music).   It sorta gets you psyched about progressive rock again.
    
    I can't imagine how or why it took me so long to appreciate the album,
    but I can honestly tell you that there's not one single song that I
    fast-forward thru, and the album rarely strays far from my CD
    player(s).
    
    It might be a good idea to see them live first.   In fact, my interest
    in them really started to bloom when I started learning some stuff from
    the album.  Some music has more impact when it's performed live.
    
    	long-winded db

    FWIW, I had a similar response to Aimee Mann's (ex 'til Tuesday) new
    album. I never thought it "sucked", but at first I thought it had only
    1 or 2 decent cuts. After about the third play through, I like them
    all. I'd bet the phenomenon is more commonly associated with music
    that "says something musically" (whatever that means) as opposed to
    just providing a format for some hooks, or album filler. I would not
    have rated DT quite so high based only on "Hold Me Under", so db's
    comments are significant.
    
    Paul 

> I listened to it one time and thought "what are those guys
>    raving about - this sucks".   I listened to it about 10 more times - 
>    no change.   For reasons which even I don't understand, I kept
>    listening to it.
    
    Sounds like brainwashing to me...

    Alright Paul!  
    
    Aimee Mann's WHATEVER lp is another MUST BUY -- gets my vote for album
    of the year.

    Dream Theater, isn't this the band with Eric Clapton on guitar?
    Neil Young used to play with them also...
    
    The great thing is when you see them in concert is the way they tune
    the guitars and basses.  The bass player uses a six string bass
    and he and the guitar player tune them the same 
    ||||||----------   |||||||----------   
    I believe they tune this way since they play so fast it also acts as a
    heat sink.
    
    						Would

I bought it last week. Kinda melodramatic, parts of it are very reminiscent of
early King Crimsom, the drummer overplays the slow stuff. Sounds like 
Queensryche on speed to me. Maybe I'll like it better after I hear 20 times,
yeah these are great musicians but the album was a yawner to me so far...

dbii

    So what's wrong with Queensryche on speed ?
    [ ;-) ]
     
    Paul

Actually my biggest complaint/problem with the album is that the drummer 
overplays the slower stuff, it's extremely distracting *to me*. That and
I got tired of the fast synchopated scale thing back in the early 70's
when I burned out on Crimsom. The band is full of great players, and they
don't seem to be driven to shred and do nothing else. But they're awfully
melodramatic and the above noted things really bothered me. maybe after I
listen to it 10 times I'll like it better...butI was distracted by the
new Brian May CD I got which I instantly loved...

dbii

    Most times I think DT is pretty cool (high praise from me), and then
    sometimes (like the second cut on I&W) I think they sound like Boston.
    
    Edd

    So what's wrong with sounding like Boston ?
    
    Paul

>    So what's wrong with sounding like Boston ?
    
    The word "sterile" comes to mind...
    
    gh (not a big Boston fan)

    Well, like Boston or not, you really have to hand it to Sholtz
    as a producer/engineer - EXCELLENT job on all three albums.
    
    jc (Who wishes he could produce like that...)

    I also think that Boston is the only band whose sound can be captured
    and sold in a tiny little battery powered box.
    
    Everytime I plug my guitar thru my XD-1 Walkman, it just screams
    "I sound like Boston"!!!!

    When I plug into *my* Rockman, I sound like Dave Blickstein.
    
    							Brian

    RE Boston = sterile:
    
    Then I guess you've never heard Supertramp, Midnight Oil, Hughey Lewis,
    & about a billion other *really* sterile bands. Boston's sound is
    somewhat predictable, & Brad Delp departs from the usual "lead vocals
    from the sewers of hell" approach of many bands with decent guitar
    stuff, but sterile, they ain't.
    
    Also you gotta admit that the multi-guitar production (with all those
    TONES) is top notch stuff.
    
    Paul
     

    ...nothing wrong with Boston's sound other than it's so damn
    consistant. (Coming from someone who waited 10 years for "Kamakiriad"
    I guess I can't really slag the issue too badly...)
    
    Boston has 1 sound, they do it well, but they do it over and over.
    Sometimes DT does it to. I *really* hear it in the DT vox.
    
    Edd

    re: Paul
        
>    Then I guess you've never heard Supertramp, Midnight Oil, Hughey Lewis,
    
    You sure you're thinking of Midnight Oil?  They don't have a slick
    overproduced sound like the others you mentioned.  They don't play
    stuff that's absolutely safe and perfect.  Their vocalist doesn't have
    a pretty pop-star voice.
    
    You act as though I'd like any of those other band like the later
    Chicago, Supertramp, Huey Lewis, or whoever better then Boston.  That's
    the thing, I don't like any of them either (I do like Midnight Oil and
    see almost no similarlarity in their sound to these others).
    
> Boston's sound is
>    somewhat predictable, & Brad Delp departs from the usual "lead vocals
>    from the sewers of hell" approach of many bands with decent guitar
>    stuff, but sterile, they ain't.
    
    Hey, it's my opinion and I've heard several others that felt the same
    way.  Obviously your's differs, that's fine.
                                                                      
    re: Coop
    
>    Well, like Boston or not, you really have to hand it to Sholtz
>    as a producer/engineer - EXCELLENT job on all three albums.
    
    That's cool that you like it, but personally, I *hate* that production
    style.  It's just too smooth and consistant (thanks for the term, Edd). 
    That kind of thing leaves me completely cold.  Journey, Supertramp,
    there's a million of 'em.  It was one of the big pop-rock styles of the
    70's.  I didn't like those bands then and I still don't like them
    today.
    
    Greg

    I guess Midnight Oil is more of an '80's "sterile". I liked them at
    first, but they always seem to sound as if they're holding something
    back. It's as if they're trying to tap into some acceptable,
    mainstream, market. It's not just a matter of how "squeaky clean"
    anyone is. The singer's (non)hair is an example of the same type of
    conformity as those LA "hair" bands on MTV.
    
    There's a whole slew of "techno" bands (New Order, Human League, even
    Tears For Fears) that are '80's "sterile" on purpose. They don't do
    much for me either. 
    
    For me, the whole concept of "sterile" just doesn't apply to songs like
    "Hitch A Ride", "A Man I'll Never Be" or "Amanda". On the other hand,
    "Party" & "Cool The Engines" are somewhat tedious & lacking in content, yet
    they get played to death. "More Than A Feeling" & "Don't Look Back" are
    both HUGE in production & musical value. I wish *my* homemade demo tape
    could sound so "sterile"
    
    Paul

>    When I plug into *my* Rockman, I sound like Dave Blickstein.
    
    Try turning it on!!!
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    re: TECRUS::ROST "Graduate of More Science H.S."
    
    BTW, I like the personal name.
    
    	Ralph Spoiled-Sport

Boston??? I liked the first album fine, the other two were junk IMHO. Sholtz's
OVERproduction on the last two ruined them, coupled with some fairly poor
songwriting (the guy really only wrote 2 songs, then he changed the words
to make another 17..) These daze I can;t even listen to the first one, it 
sounds dated and sterile to me.

Those other bands, supertramp etc. were never bands I listened to anyway...

dbii

>  (the guy really only wrote 2 songs, then he changed the words
> to make another 17..) 

   Bingo!  And precisely why I dislike them.  Well, one of the reasons.  :-)
   They didn't even bother to change the guitar solos.

   -- Sam

    Brian never fails to crack me up.
    
    BTW - I like Boston and can't stand Chicago.  Same for the bands.

    Hey, the boys now have their own newsgroup on the USENET:
    
    			alt.music.dream-theater

    What is up with DT lately??  I'm itchin' for something new - a tour,
    an album, ANY thing!!
    
    jc

    
    :-)
    

    >                     -< Dream Theater Unplugged? >-
    
    They've already done that!
    
    
    RE: jc
    
    They are recording their new album right now ... Tour and album are
    slated to hit the streets in August!

    Too cool...  I can't wait!!
    
    jc (Who'll be in the record stores the day it's released!)

    Coop,
    
    
    DID YOU KNOW?!?  Dream Theater will be releasing their album on the
    same day as the new Queensryche album, and DT will be opening for
    QR on their 1994-95 world tour??

    No kiddin'???
    
    Wow - that should be quite a show!!  I'm there.

    
    I understand that Dream Theater got rid of thier keyboardist. It's
    obvious how much he meant to the band after hearing the new song
    "Lie". The bass, drums, and guitar are pretty solid though. But they
    don't sound like the same band. What a shame.
    
                                        Dream Theater fan
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Agreed - Moore was definately a valued member...
    
    :-(

    He's been replaced by Jens Johannsson of "Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising
    Ego".
    
    I'm not at ALL happy with this.   It may not be fair to judge Jens on
    the basis of his work with Malmsteen because as well all know,
    Malmsteen has an ego the size of a planet and a musical vocabulary
    the size of a pebble.
    
    Thus, it's conceivable that Malmsteen limited Jens in terms of both
    his playing and his style.
    
    But on the DT albums, Kevin Moore demonstrates a wide variety of
    playing styles and Jens demonstrates, of course, Yngwies limited
    style (mostly fast, only harmonic minor, angst-ridden, etc.)
    
    I am really dubious as to whether or not the band can achieve the
    same artistic level without Moore but I guess we first have to give
    Jens a chance.
    
    	db
    
    

    >He's been replaced by Jens Johannsson of "Yngwie Malmsteen's Rising
    >Ego".
    
    This is CONFIRMED?!?
    
    Last I had (officially) heard, he had an audition scheduled with the
    band, but that was all.  Did they join him up??

    
    RE: .2
    
    > Thus, it's conceivable that Malmsteen limited Jens in terms
      of both his playing and his style.
    
    EXACTLY.  
    
    RE: .3
    
    > Did they join him up??
    
    Yes, confirmed.  Let's see how this ball is going to roll...
    
    
    Kev --
    
                  

    Man, o Man....  I hope this all works out...  I'd be terribly bummed
    if my all-time fave band bit the big one...
    
    I often wondered about the place for keyboard players in a metal
    band (sorry db), but Moore changed my mind.  I hope the this Jens cat
    can cut the grey-poop-on.
    
    jc

    Anyone have a release date for the new one??  Will it be Moore or??

    re: "Will it be Moore or??"

    Moore is on the album Jens will do the tour.

    Okay, Dream Theaters latest effort "Awake" was released yesterday.
    Naturally, I was first in line to pick up the new CD.  It roolz.
    
    This is definately a different approach for the Dream Team, but I like 
    it a LOT.  Sort've has a "Dream Theater meets Pearl Jam" - it's a lot
    grungier than WDADU or I&W.  So far, a favorite cut on the album is the 
    5th track called "Voices".  It's a 9 minute opus-sorta-power-ballad thing 
    that moved me the second I heard it.  
    
    Petrucci's tone just fackin' roolz.
    
    Another thing that caught my ear is the production of the album... Much
    better than I&W - No sampled snare, and I can actually hear the bass
    guitar.  Also seems like Moore held back some on the keys - perhaps 
    to pave the way for the new guy??
    
    I recommend this CD for all progressive metal-units!!
    jc
      

    This album?
    
    Killer guitar chops abound, but the keyboard textures and moods of I&W
    are gone, replaced by bizzare sounding synth patches.  Also missing is
    the more independent bass lines of John Myung.  Seems like he has
    chosen (or the producer chose) to hold down a super-low end tonic to
    Pertrucci's already monsterous crunch chord tone, as opposed to
    creating his signature contrapuntal bass lines in the upper registers
    of his 6-string bass.
    
    This album has it's moments, but I'm just a die-hard old-time (and 
    slightly jaded) Dream Theater fan -- gimme the old days when Charlie
    Dominici was singing any day!!!

    I'm also pretty dissapointed with this album so far.  Same comments as
    Buck for the most part.
    
    Only additional thing to add is that "Images & Words" showed off an
    incredible band and writing talent.   "Awake" shows off an incredible
    guitar player.
    
    I&W had all this intricate stuff going on that almost magically worked
    together despite all odds.   I get no sense of that from this album.
    At least not on the first three listens.
    
    The guitar playing on this album may actually be better than on I&W
    and thus, I will probably end up enjoying this album on that level.
    
    But what caused me to rave about I&W was that it succeeded on all
    levels like NO album I've heard for along time (not since the heydeys
    of bands like the Dregs, Kansas, ELP, Yes, etc.)
    
    	db

    
    
       How'bout stating the (not-so) obvious here.  Who's left in the band?
    
       I just did a quick review of this string and only found that the
    keyboards were replaced by _someone_ Moore.  
    
       Coop, you wrote; "...pave the way for the new guy."
    
       Buck, you wrote; "...Charlie Dominici's singing anyday."
    
       I'm buying the CD, but, wanna clue me in on personell changes?
    
       Rick. 

    Here's a quickie Dream Theater history and member change run-down:
    
    1986 -- Performing as "Majesty"
    
    Chris Collins - Vocals
    John Myung - Bass
    John Petrucci - Guitar
    Mike Portnoy - Drums
    Kevin Moore - Keyboards
    
    1987 -- Band fires vocalist, records Instrumental CD 
    
    John Myung - Bass
    John Petrucci - Guitar
    Mike Portnoy - Drums
    Kevin Moore - Keyboards
    
    1988 - 1990 -- Band changes name to Dream Theater, releases a demo,
                   followed by their first album -- line-up is:
    
    Charlie Dominici - Vocals
    John Myung - Bass
    John Petrucci - Guitar
    Mike Portnoy - Drums
    Kevin Moore - Keyboards
    
    1990 -- Band fires lead singer, embarks on 2-year audition spree
    
    John Myung - Bass
    John Petrucci - Guitar
    Mike Portnoy - Drums
    Kevin Moore - Keyboards
    
    1992 -- Band hires Canadian singer (Kevin) James Labrie, records 2nd
            album:
    
    James LeBrie - Vocals
    John Myung - Bass
    John Petrucci - Guitar
    Mike Portnoy - Drums
    Kevin Moore - Keyboards
    
    1994 -- Band records 3rd album, keyboardists split pre-release, does
            some shows with Jordan Rhues (sp??  Korg dude), hires guy from
            the Dregs for tour:
    
    James LeBrie - Vocals
    John Myung - Bass
    John Petrucci - Guitar
    Mike Portnoy - Drums
    T Leavin (sp??  Ex-Dregs) - Keyboards
                             
                   

    The guy from the Dregs is T Lavitz.
    
    Actually, I think to a large extent it was like the Dregs "exchanged"
    keyboardists with Dream Theater.
    
    I believe that Jordan Rudess did several shows with Dream Theater and
    then moved to the Dregs about the same time that T Lavitz left.
    
    Coincidentally I had an opportunity to talk to T Lavitz a few weeks ago
    and he never mentioned anything about Dream Theater but confirmed that
    he wasn't with the Dregs.   Both T and the Dregs don't seem to be
    talking much about why T isn't in the band anymore. 
    
    However I can tell you first hand that the Dregs are TOTALLY psyched
    about this Jordan Rudess guy.
    
    I'll tell you that any guy who is capable of doing a Dream Theater show
    and then in a few weeks doing a Dregs show has GOT to walk on water.
    
    Someone is sending me a bootleg of a Dregs show with Rudess.  I'm told
    I'm going to be blown away.  I've heard expressions like "the next
    Keith Emerson" thrown around.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. To you guitar players, while we may have some fun with the "who's
         best" stuff, Emerson is pretty widely regarded among keyboard
         players to be the god of progressive rock keyboards.   Calling
    	 him "the next Emerson" is praise that would be awfully damn hard
    	 to live up to.

    
        Spot report.
    
        Got it.  Cruised it.  Didn't knock me over like the previous one.
    
        Film at 11.
       

    
    Latest issue of "Guitar for the Practicing Noodler" has
    "Lie" transcribed.  I haven't heard the new CD yet, but
    I decided to give it a lengthy reading last night.  Nice
    to break out the Universe on this one!  The solo, as
    usual, is INSANE!!  Nice bunch on intervallic groupings
    near the end.  I love jammin on this stuff; the CD will
    be crankin after work today!
    
    Enjoy!
    Kev --
    

    Yeah, the solo has one section where 27 notes are played from one pick
    attack.

	I finally got 'Awake' - on the first listen I thought BWADR,
	what a load of utter HM crap, but...after I made a tape for
	my car, I must admit I've changed my mind completely - this
	CD is unbelievable. Much of the music reminds of Steve Morse
	Band, but this guy (Petucci?) is running circles around him,
	I'm afraid...and the compositions, though complicated and
	running through many moods, never has a wrong note, everything
	fits into a well structured idea - and it takes you sooo long
	to get the whole concept of it - I love it!

	The most of the CD is like one long song, smoothly changing
	from one part to another, like a classic symphony; and lasts
	75 min.! And what a relief to get rid of the sampled snare
	drum on 'Images And Words'...

	Poul

    Can you say C*O*N*V*E*R*T ??
    
    Too cool!  I don't know WHY I enjoy it so much when someone
    gets off on DT...
    
    Poul - FWIW, I didn't like Awake nearly as much as Images And Words,
    but as you pointed out, I liked it more and more each time I listen 
    to it.
    jc

    
    
      Images & Words is number one in the CD player, Awake is number two, 
    PIL is three.
    
      Just plain ol' opinion, but I still like I&W better, but Awake still
    gets air time.  I agree about the sampled snare thang also. I played 
    DT while a buddy of mine and I were on a drive. He thought they were 
    amazing. It nice that we aren't getting too mellow while in the late 
    thirties.  
    
      Looking forward to the next release.
    

    I loved your first paragraph. 
    
    One of the things I really like about Dream Theater is that they do what
    I call "challenge your ear".  That is to say, they throw a lot of
    curves at you that are unexpected and that either "don't fit" the
    formula you're expecting or deliberately VIOLATE your expectations.
    
    And yet, once you've had a chance to take it all in, you end up being
    turned onto to entirely new musical ideas.   It's often inspiring.
    
    Somewhere in here, I related the story of how INCREDIBLY LONG it took
    for me to appreciate I&W.   I thought it was utter garbage on the first
    coupla dozen listens.  Now, I think it's the best album to have come
    out in the last 10 years (and, yes, I include Morse's work in that).
    
    Naturally, I currently am very mixed AT THE MOMENT about "Awake" but
    without a doubt, it's been growing on me, and there are now somethings
    which I view as incredible that merely weeks ago I thought was garbage.
    
    	db

>>    for me to appreciate I&W.   I thought it was utter garbage on the first
>>    coupla dozen listens.  Now, I think it's the best album to have come
>>    out in the last 10 years (and, yes, I include Morse's work in that).
    
    Are you being serious here?  What would possess you (or anyone for that
    matter) to listen to something you thought was "utter garbage" a coupla
    dozen times?  Heck, I have records I LIKE that I haven't listened to
    that much.
    

    It takes that long to digest all that material...  :-)

    	
    	re: Rick - my thoughts exactly!  He obviously really wanted
    	to like it.
    
    	The only things I've heard from DT are on the Musician magazine
    	sampler cd's.  Both tunes (from different albums), imo, were
    	poorly produced and the singer... well, not my cup of tea.
    
    	But the musicianship seemed decent.
    
    	Tom
    

    Rick,
    
    > What would possess you (or anyone for that matter) to listen to
    > something you thought was "utter garbage" a coupla dozen times? 
    
    The fact that people whom I respect said it was so good (and they were
    right).
    
    I'll let you in on a little secret, my first reaction to EVERY new
    Steve Morse album is "utter garbage"�.
    
    In short, I have found that the music I end up loving the most, is the
    music that takes some time to appreciate.
    
    I won't offer you advise, but I will only tell you that if I regularly
    dismissed everything I didn't like on the first listen or two,
    I'd be depriving myself of an INCREDIBLE amount of great music.
    
    I wonder if this really isn't an underlying factor in the blooz vs.
    prog thing.   Blues is very easy to appreciate on the first listen
    because it hits you on a gut level.    Complicated music often takes
    some getting used to (as the earlier note demonstrates) but is often
    well worth the effort.
    
    	db
    
    � Think of how Mike Heiser would've ate up this "straight line" back
      during the Morse vs. Satch debates:  "You should trust your first
      impressions"....

>    	But the musicianship seemed decent.
    
    Just "decent"???
    
    Tom, you gotta tell me, who you've been listening to recently such that
    in comparison DT only rates a "decent".
    
	db    

>>    The fact that people whom I respect said it was so good (and they were
>>    right).
    
    fair enough, but...

>>    I won't offer you advise, but I will only tell you that if I regularly
>>    dismissed everything I didn't like on the first listen or two,
>>    I'd be depriving myself of an INCREDIBLE amount of great music.
    
    we're talking about a big difference between dismissing something after
    one or two listens, and sticking with something you think is garbage
    for 24 or more.

    Just curious, have you ever expended that much effort and not had it
    pay off?

>>    	But the musicianship seemed decent.
    
>       Just "decent"???
    
>       Tom, you gotta tell me, who you've been listening to recently such that
>       in comparison DT only rates a "decent".
    
    Funny you should say that, because I saw a DT concert live on TV here
    in Italy a few weeks back, and my overriding impression was that the
    musicianship seemed...er, decent. It wasn't my cup of tea (at all-at
    all!), but it was different. So I watched it for half an hour, by which
    time my face hadn't broken into a beaming smile, and then changed
    channels.
    
    I dunno, I guess I'd probably say that Paverotti seems to have a
    "decent" voice, and Philip Glass seems to be a "decent" avant-garde
    composer. But they just aren't my scene, and I don't particularly
    understand what they're doing, hence the relative lack of enthusiasm.
    Moreover, there's so much music I love out there (whether it be blues, 
    soul, R&B, rock & roll, jazz, ska, beat, salsa, cajun, psychadaelic,
    etc.) that I (and especially my wallet!) don't really feel the need to
    "force" my ears to get into even more new stuff.
    
    Come to think of it, the last 3 CDs I bought were by Gene Vincent & the
    Blue Caps, Eric Dolphy, and Billy Ward & the Dominos. Now, you might
    just think that the voices of Billy Ward, Clyde McPhatter and Jackie
    Wilson were...well, decent ;-)
    
    Dom

	What have I been listening to lately ?  Well, Allan Holdsworth's
	"Hard Hat Area", Tribal Tech, Richard Thompson, the latest
	Hellecasters, Pat Martino's latest - "some decent" stuff...

	db, I'm not really into comparing musicianship like you are.  And
	I don't automatically equate great musicianship to great music.

	But Rick answered the main point first - you said "coupla dozen 
	times".  Either	that's a total exaggeration or you must really 
	want to like it.

	Look, they're obviously talented musicians.  But once again, they
	don't appeal to my ears.  The singer is the main turnoff so let
	me know when they release an instrumental album.  

	Also, I hope this doesn't turn this into a blooz debate.  Btw, 
	have you heard Alternate Quartet's CD ??  If so, how can you 
	possibly even write .187 ???  

	Isn't it already obvious ??

	Tom

>    we're talking about a big difference between dismissing something after
>    one or two listens, and sticking with something you think is garbage
>    for 24 or more.

>    Just curious, have you ever expended that much effort and not had it
>    pay off?
    
    Yes, the new Eric Clapton album.   ;-)
    
    Seriously, the answer is yes, although I do not often expend that much
    effort.   I have to hear good reviews from a number of people whose
    opinion I respect.
    
    Another example where I initially hated an album was Patrick Moraz's
    "i" (from the period when every Yes member came out with a solo album).
    
    You must understand that I don't actually sit on my couch with my
    attention entirely focused on it for 24 times.   In the case of Moraz,
    I bought it, played it for my college room-mate who also hated it.  But
    we liked having music in the background while we were studying but it
    hadn't to be " boring music" so that album almost became a joke: it was
    the only thing we'd play while we were doing homework.
    
    But then it started to get to me, and now even if it may not be my
    favorite album from that time period, I think it's the most innovative.
    I even spent big bucks to get it on CD (had to go import).
    
    I have some questions for you:
    
    	1) How many times will YOU listen to an album before you dismiss
           it?
    
    	2) What is your point?    I.E.   are you saying something like
    	   "if you listen to anything long enough you'll like it",
    	   are you saying "That DT album isn't really good, you're just
    	   brainwashed" or "what a waste of time" or what?
    
    	3) I'd like you to select an album that you've just received more
    	   inspiration from than perhaps any other.   Got one?   Good.
    	   Now I'd like to ask you if YOU think the enjoyment you got
    	   from that album wouldn't be worth the amount of effort (which
    	   really wasn't much more than just playing it in the car or in
    	   the background instead of the radio) I invested in DT or Moraz.
    
     	   If the answer is "no", than I truly feel sorry for you.  It
           tells me that you have not found an album that you appreciate
    	   as much some of the ones I have.   
    
    	   I don't deny that it's unusual to invest that much effort in
    	   music appreciation (specifically appreciation of stuff that
    	   doesn't immediately appeal to your ears) 
    
    	   What I do deny is that that investment
    	   doesn't yield dividends that unequestionable make it worthwhile.
    
>	db, I'm not really into comparing musicianship like you are.  And
>	I don't automatically equate great musicianship to great music.
    
    Neither do I.
    
>	But Rick answered the main point first - you said "coupla dozen 
>	times".  Either	that's a total exaggeration or you must really 
>	want to like it.
    
    It may be a slight exageration (certainly more than say 12 listens).
    
    And without a doubt, I really wanted to like it.   I "really want to
    like" as much music as I possibly can and am willing to invest the time
    to do that because my experience is that it pays off.
    
>	Also, I hope this doesn't turn this into a blooz debate.  Btw, 
>	have you heard Alternate Quartet's CD ??  If so, how can you 
>	possibly even write .187 ???  
    
    No.  

>	Isn't it already obvious ??
    
    I have no idea what you're talking about here.

	Tom

    I have no hard and fast rule re how many times I will listen to
    something I don't immediately like.  Certainly 1 or 2 times isn't
    enough pass final judgement, but how many tries invariably depends
    on how motivated I might be.  As you suggest, if enough people whose
    opinion I respect recommend something, that could be a strong
    motivation.
    
>>    	2) What is your point?    I.E.   are you saying something like
>>    	   "if you listen to anything long enough you'll like it",
>>    	   are you saying "That DT album isn't really good, you're just
>>    	   brainwashed" or "what a waste of time" or what?
    
    I have no point, I was merely asking a question.  It is interesting
    that YOU suggest these scenarios.  Do you think any of these apply
    to your experience with DT?
    
    I bought I&W back when it was released, largely on the recommendations
    I read in this notesfile.  I gave it four or five plays, and didn't
    seem to be getting anywhere with it.  I didn't think it was utter
    garbage; I wouldn't be able to summon that much emotion over it.  It
    struck me as just okay, kinda derivative, nothing to really hold my
    interest.  What interested me about your recent reply was, as you put
    it, the incredibly long time it took for you to appreciate I&W.  I
    wanted to know if you were just blowing smoke or if perhaps I should
    give it another go.
    
>>    	3) I'd like you to select an album that you've just received more
>>    	   inspiration from than perhaps any other.   Got one?   Good.
>>    	   Now I'd like to ask you if YOU think the enjoyment you got
>>    	   from that album wouldn't be worth the amount of effort (which
>>    	   really wasn't much more than just playing it in the car or in
>>    	   the background instead of the radio) I invested in DT or Moraz.
>>    
>>     	   If the answer is "no", than I truly feel sorry for you.  It
>>          tells me that you have not found an album that you appreciate
>>    	   as much some of the ones I have.   
    
    Besides sounding condescending as hell (db, do you intentionally do
    this?) I disagree completely with your conclusion that if I haven't
    spent as much effort as you that I can't appreciate anything as much
    as you.
    
    /rick

    Rick - Give it another go.  I've been listening to I&W for way-over a
    year now, and everytime I play it, I get all excited all over again.
    It just seems to get better and better (unlike a lot of other bands 
    i listen too, which I get bored with too easily.
    
    RE: db
    
    Thanks Dave - I respect you too.
    
    :-)
    

    On another tangent, I saw them live before I ever heard any airplay...
    My wife STILL remembers the look on my face when they opened up with
    "Metropolis" at this cheesy local bar.  I almost spilled my beer.
    
    I bought the record right there at the bar.
    jc
    

    
    	"Metropolis" is amazing ... there is so much going on in that
    	song that it would take 5-10 listens to make sure you heard
    	everything.
    
    	And I actually hated this album the 1st time I heard it ...
    	Esco played it at a party I was at, and it almost put me to
    	sleep.  But after reading all the rave reviews in H_M, I fig-
    	ured I was missing something obvious, and bought it.  And 2
    	listens later, I loved it.
    
    	"Awake" is OK, but nowhere near the masterpiece of "Images
    	and Words".  But I'll give it another listen or 2 [but I have
    	better things to do than listen to it 20 more times 8^)].
    
    	After 4 or 5 listens, you should have a pretty good idea if
    	you like it or not.
    

>>    	3) I'd like you to select an album that you've just received more
>>    	   inspiration from than perhaps any other.   Got one?   Good.
>>    	   Now I'd like to ask you if YOU think the enjoyment you got
>>    	   from that album wouldn't be worth the amount of effort (which
>>    	   really wasn't much more than just playing it in the car or in
>>    	   the background instead of the radio) I invested in DT or Moraz.
>>    
>>     	   If the answer is "no", than I truly feel sorry for you.  It
>>          tells me that you have not found an album that you appreciate
>>    	   as much some of the ones I have.   
    
>    Besides sounding condescending as hell (db, do you intentionally do
>    this?) I disagree completely with your conclusion that if I haven't
>    spent as much effort as you that I can't appreciate anything as much
    
    Rick, that you think that is my conclusion reveals that you have
    misread (and I think "clearly misread") what I said.
    
    I did not say:
    
    	"if you haven't spent as much effort, you can't appreciate 
    	 anything as much".
    
    I said:
    
    	 "It tells me that you have not found an album that you appreciate
          as much some of the ones I have."
    
    Saying that "you haven't found an album you appreciate as much" is
    quite different from makng a comment about your ability to appreciate.
    
    I wrote that with the full expectation that you would say "yes, I
    have albums I love so much that they would've been worth that".
    The point I was trying to make is that while it may seem odd to spend
    that much effort, it's worth the effort if it turns you onto something
    that good (which it often does for me).
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  I found most of the comments made in the bluz/progrock thing
    	  ("musically immature", etc.) condescending as well.   Believe 
    	  me, that's not how I really want to sound - I think you misread me.

    Oddly enough, I think what really turned me into a DT fan was maybe not
    even the listening but when I was more or less forced into learning
    a tune.
    
    It is also quite often the case that I hate a tune and end up liking
    it thru playing it (or watching it played live ala Coop's example).
    
    	db

    Oh, well as long as you didn't MEAN to sound condescending...
    
    Btw, I do have music that I enjoy enough such that it would be WORTH
    the type of effort you describe.  But I find it hard to imagine
    actually having to go that far to figure out I liked it.  And trust
    me, I have had the experience of listening to something I didn't like
    ad nauseum.
    

    FWIW (not much, I admit), DT doesn't impress me either. Do it because
    it's unusual does not necessarily map to do it because its good. In this
    case, I don't think it maps well at all.
    
    -b

    db, it may interest you to know that several years ago I picked up
    Patrick Moraz's "i" pretty much solely based on things you wrote about
    it in notes.  (The fact that Jeff Berlin plays bass on this record was,
    admittedly, a bit of a sweetener as well).  Your descriptions of both
    how the music sounded and how it affected you were quite compelling.
    
    After a long search, I finally located a used copy (this was back in
    the days of vinyl).  I did not like it, but at the same time it intrigued
    my ear.  It sounded different from my expectations, but different in a
    way that suggested I may need to adjust my reference points to be able
    to fully understand it.  Even though I didn't like it, I got the sense
    that there was a lot going that I wasn't equipped to appreciate.
    So I would pull this record out every once in awhile and try again.
    I can't say I ever got below the surface with this one, and shortly
    thereafter my turntable broke.  But someday, one way or another, I'll
    probably renew my efforts.
    
    Note that this is somewhat different from my experience with DT.
    There, the terrain is more familiar.
    
    /rick
    

    Rick, 
    
    Just listen to it 24 more times or so, you'll love it.  I guarantee
    it.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    
    	I have some favorite albums that took me a while to get used to.
    The first example that comes to mind is XTC's "Skylarking". My first
    impression was that the songs seemed "unfinished" for some reason;
    after later listenings I began to relate to the album as a whole,
    rather than individual songs, and it still remains one-of-my-favorite-
    albums-of-all-time.
    
    	Another example would be Todd Rundgren's "Nearly Human". I was
    dissapointed on my first listen because the album was mellower than I
    expected. Now I consider it to be one of Todd's best albums.
    
    	I think the key factor in this situation is that the album was
    "not what I expected". It shook up my preconceived notions of the
    album-- but I still had a disposition to like the artist in the first
    place. And it took me no more than 3 or 4 listens before I changed my
    opinion on these records. I certainly didn't need twenty spins of the
    disc to change my mind.
    
    	I think that's quite different than "learning to love" an artist
    or style of music you could never stand in the first place.
    
    	
    	I have an opinion on "learning to love" anything....
    
    	Here's a long story. (At least I'm warning you.) I don't drink
    booze. No beer, no wine, no alcohol. I never have. I know it's the rare 
    rock 'n' roller who doesn't consume alcohol, but it's always turned me 
    off. I had many band members & friends who tried to get me to drink
    with them; early on, I'd accept a drink from them and try it. Liquor
    always tasted like bad medicine to me; beer always tasted like urine.
    I'd say to them "how can you drink this stuff??" and they'd answer
    "Oh, you'll get used to it."
    
    	That always turned me off right away... that's exactly what my mom
    used to tell me when she served liver. I'd be gagging from it and she'd
    say "you'll get used to it".
    
    	Well, no thanks, Ma... I don't need to get "used to it". There's
    enough things in this world that I like on the first try. Keep your
    liver and your booze.... I'm happy with my Pepsi and Ben & Jerry's.
    
    	I'm always willing to try something new... I'm one of those people
    who likes to order something different on the menu every time. But if I
    get a meal that I don't like, I don't feel like I need to order it 10
    more times before I decide "do I *really* like it or not".
    
    	I listen to alot of new music, and I'm perfectly willing to change
    my opinion on an artist-- I used to hate the B-52's until the album
    with "Love Shack" on it came out... that was a fun song and a fun
    record. That type of thing happens to me all the time. But I feel that
    if it doesn;t grab me after a few listens, I'm not too interested in
    continuing to listen to it.
    
    
    	I may be on contoversial ground here, but I believe you can be
    "brainwashed" into liking anything... you can even brainwash yourself. 
    I think that's why the general public likes so much lame music... radio
    stations just play the same tracks over and over and over until many
    people are conviced it must be good. In some cases, familiarity can
    breed contempt, but often it's the reverse. I suppose if I sat in a
    room and played the same album day after day, an album I thought was
    sh*tty would probably start to sound tolerable, then okay, then pretty
    good, and maybe by the end I might believe it's the best damn album of
    all time.  
    
    	We probably all have songs we remember from your younger days that
    we hated, only to hear them on the radio now and you find yourself
    thinking "Well, it's not really *that* bad." But were you right then or
    are you right now? Could it be that you were correct then *and* you're
    correct now? We always believe that our current opinions are better
    than our previous ones, but is that objectively true?
    
    	Don't ask me, I don't know. But I do know that I'll pass on the
    Beer & Liver Lunch Special.
    
    
    
    Brad 

    
    Have some beers and you'll love DT!
    
    ;^)
    

    I love liver...
    
    PS - Brad, you are VERY right on the being "brain washed" into liking
         ANY thing.  Listen to the radio and you'll see what I mean.  Most
         of the "newrock" is utter shite, but I find that I tap my foot to
         tunes I would've NEVER liked...  Hmm.

    I can see it now... the next DT album... LIVER AND ONIONS!
    
    :-)

    
    
      My listening tastes go from one side to the other.  Neither side 
    has any real definition.  One second I can listen to XTC, then an 
    80's Howard Jones CD, then move to Jude Cole, some jazz and Dream 
    Theater.  So why is this?  Ya, stupid question, I know. 
    
      Jazz might have something to do with it. If I'm booking down the 
    highway with XTC's Life Begins At The Hop cranking out at max volume,
    singing away, having a grand ol time, how in hell can I then listen 
    to Vince Guaraldi next?  I mean, what the hell is going thru my mind to
    come up with that segway<sp?>.    
    
      Without going into some bull$&# brain babble, (which I'm not qual'd
    or clued to do)  one is fun, the other is learning.  I'll kill the fun
    of Life Begins At The Hop if I listen to it ten times in a row. On 
    the other hand, I can listen, really listen, investigate and learn 
    when spinning up some cool jazz or better yet, some classical.  I don't
    listen to Tales From Topographic Oceans to sing, I do it to listen. 
    To listen to the parts that I've heard before, but didn't really hear.  
    
      The end of all this is to state that there may be something to
    learning to like it.  I guess it all depends on how you as a person
    approach it.  Dream Theater is a combination of toe tappin', go 
    for the moment, sound bite listening, that can quickly turn into 
    closely listening to the subtle things that I missed before.  So
    my Dream Theater listening might be the same thing you're doing when 
    playing or spinning up Da Blooze. 
    
      No one cares if you like it. No one cares if you don't like it.
    Your mileage may vary. It's all opinion and your welcome to it. 
    I still like the Blues.  Eric Clapton can play.  Eddie Van Halen
    must shave off the beard, he looks like Charles Manson.
    
      Be cool, have fun.
    
     -Rick.
    
      PS: Kinda hope that made sense. I was just trying to negotiate 
          the common ground, cause I believe it's there.    
    

    
    	I think the saturation deal works opposite to what you feel,
    	or at least for me.  Example:
    
    	I loved ZZ Top's "Eliminator" album when it 1st came out,
    	but after awhile got sick of it when the radio stations were
    	playing "Sharp Dressed Man" and "TV Dinners" every 5 minutes.
    
    	And I don't think anyone really gets to "like" an album just
    	because they hear it repeatedly ... you just learn not to hate
    	it as much.  Or you learn to ignore it without changing the
    	channel or turning it off.
    

    Well, thats the one thing I love about DT - I can't get tired of it!!
    Tres-cool!
    jc

	I would think that we've all pretty much decided what types
	of music we'll like by now.  Whether it's hating Whitney or
	Bolton for over singing, or G&R for Axl's voice, or Kenny G
	for elevator jazz, etc...   Even refusing to enjoy a song
	simply because it's simple.  Or all of Country music.

	Or Bruce.  Or pompous art rock.  Or...

	To learn to like something means, imo, that you have to be
	open to it in the first place.  And that includes already
	liking the artist's previous releases.  For me, 10cc was
	always that way.  I was consistently disappointed until the
	3rd or 4th listen but there's no question that I wanted to
	like it and so I gave it much more of a shot than something
	that didn't float my boat on first listen.  Godley and Creme
	needed a few more listens... ;^)

	Weather Report is another example.  Their tunes always sounded 
	like just a long jam the 1st few listens but then suddenly these
	interwoven melodies jumped out.  Zawinul would have these themes
	with this unexpected dissonant note and I'd cringe.  Then I'd
	get used to it and it seemed perfect.  It was always fun to
	watch someone else's reaction when they heard it for the first
	time...

	Anyway, my point is that I don't think I'll ever enjoy DT,
	regardless of how great they are or how many times I listen to
	the album, because I'm just not open to that type of music.  
	I didn't hate the DT tunes I heard - I just don't enjoy that
	type of music.  (I'm turning 40 soon... ;^)
	
	Now, that doesn't mean that I'm closed to all music except the 
	bands that I've already heard.  It's more that I'm more open to
	the types of music that I know I like.

	Tom

    Clapton sucks.
    
    :-)

    I knew the closing would get an off target response.
    Only wish I said something 'bout Satch also.         8^)

    re: .203 Brad Page
    
    Very interesting note Brad.
    
>    	I think the key factor in this situation is that the album was
>    "not what I expected". It shook up my preconceived notions of the
>    album-- 
    
    See... now I find this fascinating. 
    
    What may be different about me (all folks are different right?) is that
    MANY of my VERY favorite albums are albums I did NOT like initially:
    most Dregs albums, Images and Words, "i",... I mean, these are like
    the albums I both love the most and RESPECT the most.
    
    THe reason is because they shook my preconceived notions of what
    MUSIC should be!!!  (Particularly the Moraz album.)
    
    It's music that breaks rules or even boundaries and yet still have
    considerable appeal to the spirit.
    
>    	I have an opinion on "learning to love" anything....
    
>    	I may be on contoversial ground here, but I believe you can be
>    "brainwashed" into liking anything... you can even brainwash yourself. 
    
    You think that's "controversial"?  Try this:
    
    Suppose you're right.   Does it matter?
    
    Here's a question for you:  if you could be brainwashed into really
    enjoying almost any kind of music, would you AVOID being brainwashed?
    Allow yourself to be brainwashed?   Or... would you VOLUNTEER to be
    BRAINWASHED.
    
    See... I would LOVE to find some sort of magic that would allow me to
    appreciate any kind of music.   I think I would probably "volunteer".
    
    I mean... who cares HOW I came to like it?   Isn't being able to "like"
    a kind of music almost always a good thing�?
    
    	db
    
    � With the possible exception is being able to like Eric Clapton.  ;-)

    >Here's a question for you:  if you could be brainwashed into really
    >enjoying almost any kind of music, would you AVOID being brainwashed?
    >Allow yourself to be brainwashed?   Or... would you VOLUNTEER to be
    >BRAINWASHED.
    
    >See... I would LOVE to find some sort of magic that would allow me to
    >appreciate any kind of music.   I think I would probably "volunteer".
    
    Couldn't agree less, Dave...just for a change! As I said in an earlier
    note, there's too much good music around (and life's much too short)
    for me to want to smash my head against the wall in order to appreciate
    <insert group/artist name>. It's not just people like Dream Theater or
    Steve Morse; another couple of artists that have had more than their
    fair share of listening time but have failed to make an impact (barring
    a few songs) are Joni Mitchell and Talking Heads.
    
    Say, there's an old woman who lives near me who simply loves doing the
    ironing! I kid you not...she's been doing it for years and she seems to
    really get a kick out of it, to the point that she doesn't seem to know
    what to do with her time when there's no more ironing to do. She just
    turns the telly on, gets the ironing board out and...hey presto!
    
    I suspect she's also the president of the Dream Theater fan club, but
    that's another story...
    
    >I mean... who cares HOW I came to like it?   Isn't being able to "like"
    >a kind of music almost always a good thing�?
    
    Er...no. Or, at least, not necessarily. See above.
    
    >� With the possible exception is being able to like Eric Clapton.  ;-)

    You know what? I'm going to buy a Steve Morse album on the way home
    tonight. Then I'm going to put it on the turntable, get the ironing 
    board out and...
    
    ;-) ;-)
    
    Dom
    

    
      No, no, no, no, no, no, no.  Not force yourself to like 
    it, but learn to like it.  Or the more you hear it, the 
    more you like it. Hell, there's no absolutes.  
     
      The key here is you very well may NOT like Dream Theater. 
    Regardless, I'd bet there are some CD's that you came to 
    like the more you heard it. I think that's what everyone is 
    dancing around. 
    
      Rick.  
    
      PS: Anyone heard from the Dawg?   

>      PS: Anyone heard from the Dawg?   
    
    Yeah, he checked into the Betty Ford center.  Apparently he had
    overdosed on Dream Theater.
    
    They've got him on a Clapton prescription now and it looks like he'll
    pull thru.

    pity, dawg used to be able to hold his notes too
    
    :-)

    I haven't heard from the Dawg, but I will say that he'dNEVER, EVER
    intentionally listen to ANYthing I like.  We were an interesting duo
    in the band we were in together in SC.  Very interesting.
    
    I remember wanting to play Fade To Black, and he WIGGED!
    
    :-)

    ATTENTION GUITARIST OF THE WORLD!!!!!
    
    
    Dream Theater's legendary release, "Images & Words", has just been
    released in song book form.  The book contains complete transcriptions
    of all the songs on I&W, many done from the master, John Pertrucci,
    himself!  TAB notation is featured alongside the standard notation.
    
    Going price is around $25.99

    Heard they had to use a 600dpi printer, cuz it's so dense. 
    
    :-)

     RE: .219
    
     Yeeeeeee-haw!!!!!
     
    

    Amazingly, the new transcriptions show that the entire basis for I&W is
    a blues in A!
    
    :-)

    Althought the I&W songbook took about 3 years to come to print, the
    book for their new lp, AWAKE, should be ready in only 3 WEEKS!!!
    
    Guitar wiz John P. just sent the edits back to the printer last week.

    first Vai, now this.  man my heart just can't take any more emotion today.

    
    PS -- There is a dude in Boston who is a dub site for the new Kevin
    Moore (ex-DT keys) demo tape ... send mail if interested.

    BTW -- did I mention that 1984 Berklee Grad Derek Sherinian has now
    been appointed as PERMANENT replacement to Kevin Moore?  Yup -- it
    was announced at a recent show in Norway...
    
    Derek was Al Pitrelli's (guitarist for Michael Bolton, Alice Cooper,
    Dee Snyder's Widowmaker) roommate.  Since we shared the same major
    (audio engineering), we used to hang out a lot.  Gee, maybe I'll get
    the DT gig if JP boots?
    

    pass the valium.

    
    BZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    
    
    We've lost him .... clear ....			(BOOMPH!)
    
    
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    
    again ... clear ...					(BOOMPH!)
    
    
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    >                          -< anyone wanna start CPR? >-

    Cool -- my local music store had the I&W songbook in stock.  Picked
    that puppy up and am very happy about !!!
    
    BTW -- the new 5150 combos are due to ship in a week or so -- said
    store has one on order .,.. can't wait to test drive that sucker!

    Rumor has it that the transcriptions were really done by starving
    college students on alt.guitar.tab

    I was reading Eric Tamm's interesting bio/history, "Robert Fripp from
    King Crimson to Guitar Craft" this weekend (highly recommended reading
    btw) when the following passage nearly knocked me out of my chair.  It's
    re tbe KC album "Lizard", one of their (even) less accessible works:
    
    "The only thing the worries me is that perhaps it [Lizard] won't be given
    enough of a chance.  We've made it so that by the 24th listen things'll
    really begin to go Zap".
    
    Well I'll be.  The mystical 24!  Here evidently is an album *DESIGNED* not
    to be fully apppreciated till the requisite two dozen times through. 
    I have nothing but respect and admiration for Mr Fripp (really); the
    coincidence is uncanny.  Could db be onto something after all?
    
    only half :-)

    And there was me thinking that the choice of the number 24 was purely
    random!
    
    Actually, if you listen to "After The Goldrush" by Neil Young 24 times,
    you'll find you can converse in forgotten Indo-Chinese languages.
    Twenty-four listens of "Wheels Of Fire" by Cream, and you'll be able to
    write Elizabethan sonnets ;-)
    
    Dom

    Uh, just so it's clear, I was half SERIOUS in my entry.  I want to
    clarify because people seem touchy in notes these days (me included).
    I know, db, you threw off the remark "two dozen" somewhat offhandedly,
    but the coincidence here is striking, or at least amusing.  And I
    believe Mr Fripp was quite serious too.
    
    I know this has nothing to do with DT, I'll shut up now

    
    As you know, db and Mr. Fripp play a lot of inversions, and we all
    know that 24 inverted is 42, which is, of course, the answer to the
    all-important question as to the nature of the universe. So clearly
    it was intentional.
    
    -b

    Back on track with Dream Theater --
    
    
    The AWAKE guitar tab music book is now available from Warner Bros.
    for purchase!!!

    Cool!

    Get those 7-string's out, boyz

    So, like, I'm about to have a bout with GTS and plunk down over $1k
    in cash (*rare* for me when it comes to musical instruments!) for
    a John Petrucci JP100 Model Ibanez guitar.
    
    Not that I like the guitar all that much, but it's a must for my
    Dream Theater tribute band!  8^)
    

    
    
      Feeling Lucky Buck? The lastest issue of Guitar Shop magazine
    is giving away an Ibanez JMP100 guitar as part of their sweepstakes.
    They also have some close up views of John's guitar rig, it hasn't
    changed much from I&W days.
    

    
    
    hey Buck...where are you going to get a bass player as good as Dream
    theatres?
    
    
    
    					ian

    Only one place -- Berklee!

    
    New DT EP hit the shelves today...  It's TOO cool!!
    
    The object with this was to keep the YtseJammers satiated until they
    finish the album.  It's a HELL of an EP too:  $9 gets you 57:33 of
    classic DT stuff with a twist - One original, and a bunch of covers 
    (that REALLY show the flexibility of Dream Theater!).
     
    Tunes include:
    
    A Change Of Seasons - Original (23:06)
    
    Funeral For A Friend/Love Lies Bleeding (Elton John) (10:49)
    
    Perfect Strangers (Deep Purple) (5:33)
    
    The Rover/Achilles Last Stand/Song Remains The Same (Led Zep) (7:28)
    
    The Big Medley (10:34)
    	In The Flesh - Pink Floyd
    	Carry On Wayward Son - Kansas
    	Bohemian Rhapsody - Queen
        Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin - Journey
    	Cruise Control - Dixie Dregs
    	Turn It On Again - Genesis
    
    COOL arrangement on the Big Medley too!!

    
    Oh!
    
    ...and the covers are live!!  ...Just to show ya how cool these
    guys are LIVE, ya'll need to rush out and buy this pup!
    
    Only slightly prejudice...  I can't help it.  Every since Buck and
    Greg House turned me on to DT, nothing else ever seems to make it 
    into my CD players...I've even got two copies of each - one for 
    the car, one for the house.
    
    jc 
    
    Man, does the church get pissed when I sound check with DT every
    weekend.  :-)  Metropolis REALLY wakes up the parrishners...
                                                                

    re -2 Helluva bunch of covers to do.
    
    	I have never seen one of their Cd's here in Oz, or heard anything
    about them except in here.  Anyone want to tape a CD for me? Or list
    the catalogue number so I can try to order it in.
    
    P.K.

    I don't think Greg would appreciate you blaming DT-affection on him
    when he ain't here to defend himself.
    
    Mike

    He knows...And I know he didn't like it (never understood why, but...).
    
    BTW Mike - I was in Tempe this past weekend...  Too busy to call ya,
    but I was there.  It's HOT down there!  Got a buddy who is moving to 
    Gilbert, and we drive in with a U-haul.
    
    Hint:  Don't drive thru Globe via the Salt river canyon with a UHaul...
    It might LOOK shorter on paper, but...
    
    :-)

    Too bad, but I wasn't in town anyways - I was back east for my sister's
    wedding.
    
    btw - it's a dry heat and those Globe mountain passes can be killer.
    
    Mike

    
    	You came out here and didn't tell anyone you were coming?
    

    Didn't have time to socialize with important people, never mind you
    Shawn.
    
    Mike

    Seriously, since I was in the wedding and I was only there a few days, 
    there wasn't much time to see relatives and friends.  

    re DT cd's
    
    A couple of generous people are sending me some stuff to listen to.
    So thanks
    
    
    
    P.K.
    
    

    We're all deeply hurt by this Mikey!
    
    	db

    
    	RE: Mike
    
    	Yeah, that's what I thought you meant.
    
    	8^)
    

    We feel shunned and unwanted!

    The JMP100 arrived yesterday -- sweet!

    
      I knew it! What a devoted DT fan! Destined to be your main guitar
    Buck? I have to admit - it's more "you" than the Boogie rack.

    Indeed!

    
    
    	The tapes arrived yesterday!!!!!!!!  Buck you are a gem.  
    I put it on, and sat down to listen to the EP with the Live 
    stuff on it, I played side 2 first, that was all I had a chance
    to listen to last night.
    
    	Firstly.......
    
    
    
    
    
    	This guy's guitar tone ROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.  8^).
    
    What sort of amp/effects/guitar does this dude play through.
    
    	Secondly, that drummmer is awesome, some of those tom rolls and
    the double kick stuff was fantastic.
    
    	I love the singer, really reminded me of Ian Gillan.
    
    Great f*king band!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    P.K.

    
    Mesa Boogie Triaxis (2)
    Mesa Boogie Simul-Class 2:90 (2)
    Mesa Boogie Dual Recto head
    Lexicon PCM 70 'verb
    t.c. Electronics 2290 (I want one) delay
    MB Dualo-Recto 4x12 (s)  loaded with Celestion 30's
    
    plus the Ibanez configurations (with Dimarzio Air Norton and Tone Zone
    pickups in a hum-cancelling mode)
    
    Of course, he might have changed in a few ways.  Buck, care to add
    anything else?
    
    Kev --
    

    Umm, just that called a TC 2290 a "delay" is like calling a 
    Lamborghini a 'car'.    :-)

    
    I hear ya!!!  That's how JP looks at it...I look at the 2290 like
    a COMMAND center.
    
    Kev --
    

    Kev pretty much got the Petrucci rig down -- of course, all that stuff
    is racked and controlled by one of those expensive switching systems!!
    
    JP plays four guitars:
    
    (1) JP Model Ibanez USA Custom -- w/multi-colored picasso graphics
    
    (1) JP Model Ibanez USA Custom -- w/magenta-gray-white picasso graphics
    
    (1) JP custom Ibanez 7 string -- white with back picasso graphics
    
    (1) an Ibanez electric acoustic (model ?!?)
                  

    RE: .261
    
    Peter -- yeah, the drummer and singer for DT has some great chops.
    Wait til you get into the I&W tape -- that 6 string bassist really
    rips it up on that album!!

    RE last few
    
    	thanks for the info on the guys rig.  Boy there is some serious
    bills in that rig. The delay and PCM70 would run nearly 8-10 grand
    over here.  Actually just the tri axis lists at 2300 oz bucks.
    
    	They just gotta stick every audio scientist weenie type into
    a room and not let them out till you can get that sound out of a
    stomp box that costs 20 bucks and comes with a free six pack and
    pizza.....8^).
    
    
    
    P.K.

    The John Petrucci REH instruction video is now available!!!
    
    
    The guy I spoke to at Warner said it was about 2 hours long, with some
    of the band in the video!  Cost is around $50.00.
    
    
    You can call for more info or to order at:
    
    Warner Bros. (or REH)
    Note Music Service
    1-800-628-1528  (ext. 215)
    

    Dear guitar noters,
    
    The new Petrucci REH video is awesome.  Here is the description as
    found on the back:

    * * * * * * * * *
    
    ROCK DISCIPLINE is an awesome two-hour epic on the art of modern rock
    guitar. As the cornerstone for the innovative band Dream Theater, John
    Petrucci has quickly become one of the most respected and talked-about
    guitarists of the 90's. He has been featured in virtually every major
    guitar publication worldwide and was voted 'Best Guitarist' in Guitar
    Magazine and 'Break Through Guitarist of the Year' in Guitar for the
    Practicing Musician.

    John begins the video with a valuable segment on stretching and warming
    up the muscles in your shoulders, arms and hands. Then it's time to
    grab your guitar for some unique right and left hand warm-up exercises. 
    John follows up with a detailed lesson on speed and accuracy as you
    learn subdivisions of the beat, chromatic exercises, and playing with
    dynamics.  John emphasizes practicing with a metronome to track your
    progress as you build stamina and speed. Then John shows how to connect
    'scale fragments' to form long solo lines. Other sections in the video
    include techniques like picking through arpeggios, string skipping,
    sweep picking and legato playing.  John also demonstrates how to expand
    power chords by adding more color and texture.  John unleashes dozens
    of inspiring demonstrations throughout the program and includes many
    exercises and special etudes ranging from easy-to-master to very
    challenging.

    The video also takes you behind the scenes of a Dream Theater sound
    check where John gives you a tour of his guitars and live stage set-up. 
    He also talks about his influences, the band and his views on composing
    and practicing.  ROCK DISCIPLINE is one of the most complete courses on
    rock guitar and should be placed at the 'top of the list' for every
    serious player.
    
    (booklet included with examples in standard music notation and
    tablature)
    
    * * * * * * * * *

    Overall, this video is awesome.  Two hours of instruction!! If I had to
    be _real_ picky, I wish he would have covered some specific licks from
    his songs and that they would have given close up shots of his gear
    (all shots from a distance).  But that is being picky.
   
    The quality of the video is another plus.  Most guitar vids I have are
    very simple.  This video gives split screens, and mixes color shots
    with black and white shots (very 'image'y and 'words' feel).  So not
    only are you watching quality instruction, but you're watching it
    presented very artistically.
    
    The very reason why we like DT and Petrucci is their commitment to
    quality.  It should be no surprise that a video that Petrucci puts out
    would be anything less than top-notch quality!
    
    You can order this video for about $50 from Warner Bros. 1-800-628-1528
    (ext.215).
                
    
    Cheers,
    Buck, DT fan
                

    "Dream Theater's guitarist," "2-hour epic," etc.
    
    Greg would've had a field day with this one.

    For all of those who missed out on the limited editon JMP 100 (only
    100 made) -- Ibanez will be officially issuing a similar guitar to
    the JPM 100 for the mass market.
    
    In case you were wondering, of course I'll have to have one of these,
    too!  8^)