Conference napalm::guitar

    There's already a string under the Clapton basenote in MUSIC bashing
    Lounge Lizard Layla, the underplugged version.
    \Gary

    Yeah, but what kind of picks does he use?
    
    Peter

    
    	o Beck blows him away on that live blues boogie video they're
    	  playing lately - and Eric know it.
    
    	o He can't play a barre chord without flippin' the bird
    
    	o His tone is the pits - he needs that painted SG
    
    	o Someone should tell him Dorian mode is the next step after
    	  Pentatonic
    
    	o He needs a fifth of JD and get back into heroin (sorry)
    
    	o He should be strapped to a chair and forced to listen to
    	  the live side of "Goodbye Cream"
    
    	... btw, just what does Jack Bruce say at the end of (I think)
    	"Sittin'on Top of World" ??  "Eric Clapton  ? you"
    
    	Tommy Summer
    

>    	o His tone is the pits - he needs that painted SG

Izzat the paisley one that Page gave him ??
I'd agree.  :-)

If he could play like in the old days (Disreali Gears, etc...),
I might be able to stomach it.  :-)

jc
 

    Re: .3
    
    I thought it was Ginger saying "Eric Clapton, Jack Bruce..."
    
    Wadda I know...
    
    Geez, you guys have no respect...
    
    						Pressed Rat

    Oh man, you guys for real? You're really pissed with Eric? Damn!!!
    
    Sorry I guess I can't participate in this discussion without straying
    off the topic. You see I think he's a total musician. He writes well, I
    think he sings extremely well, and he plays at the very least , very
    well. I don't like everything he's ever done (in particular that sappy
    "wonderful tonite") and I too did like his tone better in the old days.
    
    This guy is the one musician who I think examplifies the word "growth".
    You may hear him do a pentatonic scale and say "Oh man that's just a
    pentatonic scale". But Fercrissakes folks, the man is an artist not a
    technician. Give him a minor break eh?
    
    "sakman" who owns only one post Cream Clapton recording ...Unplugged
    
     

    >You see I think he's a total musician. He writes well, I think he
    >sings extremely well, and he plays at the very least, very well
    
    
    
    				R E T C H
    

>    This guy is the one musician who I think examplifies the word "growth".

You mean inverse growth, right ??  He was WAY better when he was trippin'...
And that ain't sayin' much...

:-)

jc - Whose daughter just HURLED...

    C'mon, my CAT plays better then...
    
    oops...guess that one's been used already...

    Woa! All this talk about Clapton and his one pentatonic scale is really
    hogwash. If you listened to side 2 of The Plastic Ono Band in Toronto
    you would hear he has played non-pentatonic things. 
    :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)
    
    Jay who_wishes_someone_could_teach_me_to_bend_strings_like_clapton
    :-)
    

>    Woa! All this talk about Clapton and his one pentatonic scale is really
>    hogwash. If you listened to side 2 of The Plastic Ono Band in Toronto
>    you would hear he has played non-pentatonic things. 

	That's not really fair, Yoko probably told him exactly what to
	play for these parts. Without her expert guidance, and these 
	original tunes of Yoko's, we all would have probably forgotten
	all about EC. I suggest that we all send thank you cards to Yoko
	for finding work for Eric Clapton; who knows, he might have ended
	up selling spark plugs for K-Mart if he hadn't been inspired by
	these tunes.

							Jens

    I have seen Eric in concert 2 times,I like his material,although mainly
    the older stuff.  I think the unplugged show was fabulous.
    
    	Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..but then again
    how can you trust people who play pointy headed guitars and two
    hand tap away at a thousand miles an hour 8^).X1000.
    
    PS I have never seen anyone on stage who had the "presence" that
    Clapton had. Wonder what Jimi thought.

    I highly recommend you see a band called "Dream Theater" at a venus
    close to you.  Clapton is history.  Syonara Eric,
    
    jc

    
    
>    I highly recommend you see a band called "Dream Theater" at a venus
>    close to you.						   ^^^^^
    
    	Coop, when they said you were "out there", I didn't know exactly
    what they were talking about, but now...
    
    

    I think that Eric Clapton is kak!The most over-rated guitar player in
    the world at present.I agree with the note,that says that Jeff Beck was
    infinately better.Clapton isn't fit to wipe Beck's bum!
    
    
    
                                                 Staynz

    
    Beck sux, Clapton says more with one note than Satriani could do with
    200 albums.
    
    -Tony

    
    Say what you will...  I'll take his paycheck for the past year.
    Washed up? Can't play? XYZ can blow Clapton away? You can say
    what you want, while all the other "shredders" have come and gone
    people will remember Eric Clapton whether you like it or not more
    than � the others that can "blow him away". And if Clapton's laughing
    about people buying his records and purchasing tickets to his "sold
    out" crowds he's laughing all the way to the bank. 
    
    
    Next unseen   <ret> 
    

    
    	eeks, Fred, we're not talking money here.  As far as who blows
    	him away - I said Beck, not the shredders.  Don't forget, some
    	folks still think he's god on the guitar.  
    
    	I think Jeff's shown a little longevity too...
    
    	Brian - ah, that makes sense.  I had heard that it was F* you
    	since I figured that Ginger didn't have a mic.  
    
    	oh yeah - another reason to bash Eric is because Bob Conroy
    	likes him and just bought a Strat...
    
    

     Re- .3
    
     >... btw, just what does Jack Bruce say at the end of (I think)
     >"Sittin'on Top of World" ??  "Eric Clapton  ? you"
    
     He says "Eric Clapton...vocal"  after Crossroads which Eric sings.

     IMO, Eric has been dead for a long time. But for me, he still lives
     through John Mayall and the Bluesbreakers, Cream, and Blind Faith.
     I listen to those recordings and hear a young guitar player with a
     Gibson, a Marshall, and a fire in his gut...and it floors me still.

     Everything he's done since are just songs.  

     Neal    

    I saw EC at Great Woods this past summer and the musical
    power he radiated was phenomenal. Everyone I went with 
    agreed that it was one ofthe best shows they's ever seen.
    Everyone on stage was like an appendage to EC. I've seen
    him 3 other times; one in the late 70's that was great
    (from what I remember :-) ), once in '85 that was flabby,
    and once in '88 that was pretty good.
    
    FWIW, I'm still waiting to become musically sophisticated
    enough to 'get' Beck and Steve Morse and Joe Satriani.
    I always sense a real nasty cut-throat attitude in Beck's
    playing. Maybe that's why some people like him. EC's certainly
    put out some crap-ola (e.g. Backless), but his slow blues
    has always had a lot of warmth and humanity in it.
    
    - Dave

    If we aren't all TFSOed out of here in the next twenty years, we can
    see if there are bashing notes for Dream Theatre, Satch, Fred Abatelli,
    etc. then.  Or if anybody can remember who those guys were.  It's easy
    to tromp on the pioneers who have gotten old and laid-back.  I haven't
    bought a Clapton album since "461 Ocean Blvd." but I still respect the
    guy.
    
    As far as the "fire in his belly", give him a break.  At least he's
    still alive and playing music.  Maybe you would prefer that he burned
    out like Peter Green?  When you guys get rich and famous, we'll see
    what *you* choose to play....agagagagagagagagagaga
    
    							Brian

    
    I've never been the biggest Clapton fan, but I did manage to aquire two
    Clapton CD's, one solo album, and a couple of Cream albums.  I like 
    'em all.
    
    For a time, Clapton was a guitar pioneer, introducing scads of young
    guitarists to the blues and blues-based rock.  I'd be willing to bet
    that in the late 60's most Saturday morning music store guitarists did
    *not* think they could out play him.
    
    Ok, that was a long time ago.  Other guitarists have come along, some
    real fretboard surfers.  They can play Clapton's licks with one hand
    while tapping Eruption with the other hand.  So what?  Where's the
    problem?
    
    Clapton has survived enough personal tragedy to keep EAP busy for
    years: drugs, women, children falling out windows.  He's still playing
    and maybe having some fun in the process.  I'd bet my guitar that he
    doesn't give a rats ass if xxxx can blow him off on the guitar!  Why
    should he! 
    
    
    He's got to get a chuckle out of the fact that he's still so popular. 
    If Satch, Eric Johnson, and Clapton were all to appear on the same
    bill, who whould headline?   Right, the old guy.
    
    Kevin
    
    
      
    
    
    
    

    RE: -1 well said, Kevin....
    
    
    >> I'd bet my guitar that he doesn't give a rats ass if xxxx can blow him
    >> off on the guitar!
    
    *  I'll bet my guitar that most of us don't give a rat's ass about each
       other's opinions on EC or any other axe hero. I like his chops, most
       of his music, and it really doesn't matter (to me, anyway) what
       anyone else thinks......I do get a chuckle when guys claim to be
       *better* than EC, tho.......agagagagagagag!
    
    *  This seems to have turned into a Clapton praising topic,
       interesting..........
    
    *  The man IMHO gets more mileage out of the fewest notes than any
       other of my fav guitarists...
    
    Stevo
    
    8^)

    I'm not a very big fan of EC either, but once in a while he comes out
    with a song that I just love.  "Pretending" and "Tears in Heaven" are
    prime examples.
    
    Mike

    >*  I'll bet my guitar that most of us don't give a rat's ass about each
    >   other's opinions on EC or any other axe hero. 
    
    
    hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
    
    So why are there so many replies in here already?

     Claptons a has been , Beck wipes Eric and his tired blues scale
     box position licks away. JMHO   x 1,000,000 B*) 's

Well I think you gotta put Clapton in perspective, IMHO he's over the hill but
he did some very great solos in his day:

While My guitar gently weeps
Badge
Crossroads
Bell Bottom Blues

IMHO the Derick and the Dominoes Layla album still stands as one of the all
time best albums ever done, even if it took 2-3 years before anyone even
noticed it, except die-hard Clapton-Allman fans.

I've seen him 3 times in concert, the first time Lynyrd Skynrd blew him off the 
stage, the second time was magic, Santanna was the warm up and the 
Carlos/Eric/George Terry jam of little wing should've been recorded as great
moments in guitar history. The third time, he was so-so (and I've never been 
back since).

I think it's real easy to dump on anyone, Neil, Eric, Satch etc. but music may
be art to us, to the moguls of music it's business and Eric is a big earner. He's
withstood the test of time in a big way, and he should be respected for that if
nothing else. For anyone who has looked into the business seriously wanting to
be a pro, you've got to acknowledge that he's sucessful and that's worth giving
credit for.

dbii

	IMO, if anyone makes it look as though the guitar is actually
	an integral part of his body, it's Clapton (even though Andy	
	persists in calling him "clapped-out") :^}

    >>So why are there so many replies in here already?
    
    Because we all are exercising our right to voice our *own* opinions;
    I'm not rebutting anyones' opinion or defending EC, I'm just saying
    that *I* like him and couldn't give a flying squirrel turd if anyone
    else does......I really mean that in a nice way!
    
    &^}

re: commercial success not being a measure

I think that's dead wrong, in the music BUSINESS that's the only measure. Art
doesn't count, else folk like Steve Morse would be more widely respected in
the business. (not that I don't respect him) You don;t ahve to like it but as
the man from A&M said at a conference I was at recently "If a record company
spends the $250000.00 to put out an album, the band has something to offer
a large audience, be it large in terms of locally, nationally, or 
internationally. We can't afford to spend the money otherwise"

'nuff said

dbii

    
    	Flying Squirrel turd!  Bwah haha ha!
    
    	"Hey Rocky, watch me pull this turd out of your butt!"
    
    	'Aw Bullwinkle, that trick never works..."

    >>Flying Squirrel turd!... adding that to my personal dictionary
    
    Please, feel free....I'm glad I was able to make *you* chuckle for a
    change!
    
    

RE: Bulldawg

you crack me up dood.  Squirrel turd.  Agagagaga...

It sure if fun to watch you dander go up when someone
jams Clapton  though.  :-)

    My previous reply was tongue-in-cheek, so I just thought I'd raise my
    flag and voice an honest opinion.
    
    Eric Clapton's done a lot of good music over the years.  While I
    wouldn't say he's God's gift to the guitar, he plays well for the
    material he does and picks/writes songs that are "safe" and well
    within his capabilities.  
    
    If anything, that's where I'd fault him.  He's a good player, but he's
    been playing the same thing for many years now and doesn't seem to have
    improved or changed much.  That's one of the things I like about
    players like Jeff Beck, they're not afraid to take chances or play at
    the edge of the abilities (thereby pushing them).  Every now and then
    you feel like Beck's just ready to completely lose it, then he reclaims
    himself and it all works out.  I love that stuff!
    
    I have no problem with Clapton himself, or his playing, really.  It's
    the people that think he's the best player that ever lived (and want to
    shove that opinion in my face) that bother me.  I don't recall Eric
    ever claiming to be the best to to be "God" himself.
    
    Greg
                                                        

    I agree with all you guys who are saying that Clapton's longevity and
    popularity is meaningful (deserving of respect, indicative of some kind
    of talent, etc.)
    
    However, I wonder how many of you saying that have the balls to post
    a reply saying that Michael Jackson (whose been around as long and has
    sold WAY more albums) is desserving of the SAME respect.
    
    	db

    re: .6 Sakman
    
    > You may hear him do a pentatonic scale and say "Oh man that's just a
    > pentatonic scale". But Fercrissakes folks, the man is an artist not a
    > technician. Give him a minor break eh?
    
    I'd give him a minor break if I thought he would use it.  But as far
    as I know all his breaks are also pentatonic.
    
    ;-)
     

    My two cents random thoughts on Clapton:
    
    He was a kind of innovator.  Not in the same way as say, Van Halen,
    because Van Halen really created a new genre, Clapton, IMO tapped into
    an old one.
    
    He reaches a lot of people.  He inspired a lot of people (including the
    Van Halen god).  That means something to me even if I don't appreciate
    him as much.
    
    For his time, he was a virtuoso.  It is no longer his time.  Guitar
    playing has advanced well beyond that.   Oddly enough, you still find
    people, often Clapton fans, who think he can be compared technically to
    todays shredders.  Mostly people who really haven't heard much of
    today's guitar gods (which is unfortunate).
    
    	o While it doesn't make him a lesser musician, in no way can 
    	  Clapton be compared on a technical level to Morse, Johnson,
    	  Satriani, etc.
    
    	o Today's god's do a LOT MORE than just shred.  Sure there are guys
    	  out there who's main thing is speed.  But I hear so many folks
    	  dismissing todays gods with stuff like "all chops/no music"
    	  and that's BULLSHIT!   
    
    	  Unfortunate I bear an unfair slight prejudice against Clapton
    	  because I'm continually amazed at how nearly ALL of the people 
    	  saying that seem to be INTENSE Clapton fans!
    
    	  It seems almost guaranteed that folks that don't like any of
          Morse, Johnson, Satriani are at least pretty big Clapton fans.
    
    I disagree with the statement someone made about Clapton having no
    "tone".  For example, I think the "tone" on "Pretending" is as intense
    as anything  I've ever heard.
    
    My favorite "Slowhand" guy (non-shredder) is David Gilmour.  He blows
    me away every bit as much as guys like Satriani.
    
    By the way, I'm in a band that has had set lists where 20% of the
    evening's songs we did were either Clapton songs!!!  (By the way,
    Fred Abatelli is also in this band if you couldn't guess.)  ;-)

re: db

>    By the way, I'm in a band that has had set lists where 20% of the
>    evening's songs we did were either Clapton songs!!!  
    
    Either?  Is there more then one Clapton?

    I find it interesting that the same discussion always comes up,what is
    art and what isn't.  He is better because he is faster,he is a washed
    up hack because he doesn't play like my particular guitar hero.
    	My favourite is better than your favourite. Also the measure of
    commercial success = artistic success.  How do you come up with a scale
    to tell who is the best?.....you can't.
    	A successfull artist must surely be a combination of commercial
    success (record sales,concert gross's etc) radio airplay (not
    necissarily the same as commercial success) impact on musicians,and
    impact on the community.
    	For example..The Beatles..big bucks..big impact..
    		     The Stones... "    "     "    "
    		     Micheal Jackson " "    (not so big impact JMO)
    	             etc etc
    	I personally am getting a bit offended by this bashing topic and
    don't necissarily think it is a good thing, I would question whether 
    our notes conference really needs it or not...if so lets make it
    a generic bashing note and not single out individuals (maybe a soapbox
    type note) at least then when in time to come someone does a dir/title
    they don't pick up on their axe god being bagged.  Just a couple of
    thoughts.
    
    P.K.

    RE: .44
    >	I personally am getting a bit offended by this bashing topic and
    > don't necissarily think it is a good thing, I would question whether 
    > our notes conference really needs it or not...if so lets make it
    > a generic bashing note and not single out individuals (maybe a soapbox
    > type note) at least then when in time to come someone does a dir/title
    > they don't pick up on their axe god being bagged.  Just a couple of
    > thoughts.
    
    > P.K.
    
    I couldn't agree more, except I'd eliminate all the "bash notes"
    all together. IMO, I personally think the moderator should bag this 
    note. This type of subject serves NO purpose other than to start slinging 
    mud at each other. Who needs it? As one great person said; "big deal, so 
    what, who cares? This is kinda like the "my father can beat up your father"
    attitude and with the "state of DEC business" the way it is right now....
    Get a life and move on with it!
    
    Next Unseen  <ret>
    
    
    Disgusted in MLO,
                     Fred 

    This bashing of EC & NY grows tiresome.
    
    everyone dance
    
    
    Dieter

re: .38

>    I agree with all you guys who are saying that Clapton's longevity and
>>    popularity is meaningful (deserving of respect, indicative of some kind
>    of talent, etc.)
>    
>    However, I wonder how many of you saying that have the balls to post
>    a reply saying that Michael Jackson (whose been around as long and has
>    sold WAY more albums) is desserving of the SAME respect.
    
I'll take you up on it :-).

Personally, I think Michael Jackson deserves a *lot* of respect.  Now
I'm not particularly fond of the style of music he does, but I would argue
with anyone who says it isn't "good" (whatever that means).  He's also
definitely been an innovator, and continues to try new things rather
than just rehashing the old.

-Hal

P.S.  Just for the record, I like and respect Eric Clapton, although
I too get a little annoyed by those who rant about him being a "god".

    I believe even EC has gotten a little annoyed by those that call him 
    "God",so your allowed... :^) 

    >>you crack me up dood.  Squirrel turd.  Agagagaga...
    
    my pleasure   8^)
    
    >>It sure if fun to watch you dander go up when someone
    >>jams Clapton  though.  :-)
      
    As stated, I don't care who likes or dislikes EC, it's not my business;
    what really cracks me up/irrtates me is when some wannabe rank amateur
    with visions of great-ness swelled up in his head claims to be "better"
    than EC. Better in what way?  Better at playing scales?  Playing more
    notes per measure?  Better looking?  Better at songwriting?  Better at
    creating the emotions I feel when I hear live "Crossroads"?  There is
    only one person on this earth with the complete talent package (heart,
    soul, personal experience, chops, etc.) of EC and that is EC.  Bash on,
    fools!
    
    Steve's *last* reply on this topic!    sheesh, already!
    
    
    
                              

    RE: A FEW BACK
         
    I like these "Bashing" notes.  I find them very entertaining. 
    When people discuss what they like and Don't like about a player you
    hear both sides of the story and it might even turn you on to players
    you were never into before.  As far as Clapton goes, I like his music
    but often get pissed at the credit he gets for being a Mega God Guitar
    player. He was great in his time, but his time has passed. Each generation
    brings in a new batch of Guitar Greats with new generation blowing the 
    doors of the old.  When Eric,Jimi,Beck & Page came along, they blew
    Chuck Berry & all the 50's guitar players out of the water.  Now we
    have Satch,Eric Johnson & countless others that are blowing the last
    generation out.  Its an on going cycle.  I give Eric alot of credit for
    what he's done and still enjoy his material, but anyone that thinks
    he's a guitar God by today's standards is living in the past.

    I don't have a problem with these notes, the same discussions seem to
    crop up from time to time and I think it's better to have them here
    then to have them spattered all over the place, like they usually are.
    
    Guess they could just as easily have gone into "General Discussion"
    (which they still might, if anyone has an opinion on this, mail me or
    Coop).
    
    Greg

    
    	Gee, I don't believe I've seen any Clapton is God notes here...
    	Just like him and his music is all.  I don't understand why people
    	feel a need to put him down.  EC seems pretty non-egotistical and
    	often directs the spotlight to others (like Buddy Guy). 
    	
    	What I find disturbing about these bash notes is that they feel 
    	a lot more like bashing each other, which I find unhealthy and 
    	unsettling.  It comes off as intolerance.  When I hear remarks
    	like "I just like to get your dander up", I question the integrity
    	of the comments - it makes me want to bash fucking faces.
    
    	

    re: Pat
    
>    I don't understand why people feel a need to put him down.
    
    I think this is a reaction to the multitudes of people constantly
    raving about how Eric can do no wrong.  I mean, I really liked Cream,
    and I like some of his solo stuff, but it really bugs me the way some
    fans go on an ON about how incredible he is.  
    
    In any case, the think that bothers me about these discussions is not
    the fact that there are differing opinions, or that there's a "bash"
    note, but that there are two notes here, a Clapton (and Neil Young)
    "praise" note and a "bash" note, and people won't stick to the one that
    fits what they're saying.  They'd rather beat each other up about their
    opinions rather then just say what they think (in the appropriate
    catagory, of course) and be done with it. 
    
    If the discussion get's moved to "General Discussion" (or deleted),
    that'll be the reason.
    
    Greg
                         

    
    	Greg, maybe you are right - 95% of the time I let it slide,
    	but sometimes my emotions get the better of me.  Don't get me
    	wrong - to each his/her own opinion.  Like I said, I just hate
    	it when the comments become inflammatory.  Jeff, I apologise 
    	for my overreaction.  Wanna know something weird?  I think I
    	like EC because I think he's a nice guy.  I can see myself having
    	a beer with him and listening to stories.  So don't be bashing
    	my beer drinking buddy!  8^)

    I'm not really for "bashing".  "Bashing", to me, implies putting an
    artist down.
    
    HOWEVER, I am interested "Why I don't like ____" notes.  Wanna start
    one on Steve Morse?  I'll DEFINITELY read it, and it won't get my
    dander up so long as it does make value judgements (I don't think 
    my notes in here did or at least, they weren't intended that way).
    
    If you say "EC/Morse sucks", that's just not very interesting or
    productive and it does get people's danders up.
    
    It's really how you say it:
    
    Take a recent EC bashing thing.
    
    I can understand an EC fan getting upset at a statement like:
    
    	"The new version of Layla is lame"
    
    However, I don't think anyone should get upset if someone says"
    
    	"The new version of Layla just strikes me as being lame".
    
    I mean, we're only allowed to discuss the things we like?????  If a 
    new Morse album comes out that I don't like ("fat chance" eh?) I'm
    not allowed to say "I found the album lame"????  I should just not
    put anything in as if no one is interested in knowing that?
    
    Has anyone been reading GP lately?  GP was accused of writing only
    positive reviews of equipment.  The readers sent hundreds of letters
    saying they wanted reviews of stuff GP didn't like too!  Think about
    it.
    
    So... what am I saying?
    
    I think notes about why we don't like something are absolutely OK, but
    we should try to avoid "bashing".  Let's try to avoid statements that
    sound like value judgements.   But I find it more interesting to
    understand why someone does NOT appreciate Morse (or anyone else).
    I already know why people DO appreciate him.

        As Sandy  would  tell  you, I've never been a great fan of EC -
        that's not to  say  I  don't  like  some of the stuff he's done
        throughout the years (although  if  I never again heard "I shot
        the sheriff" it'd be too soon! :^)
        
        The music of the old  black  bluesmen is still going strong and
        selling well - EC will be  in  that  category  for years - he's
        moved  over  into  a  blues style which  will  keep  his  music
        available  long  after  he's  gone.    The blues  is  a  simple
        expressive style and EC is among the best at  what  he does, IN
        MY OPINION! :^)
        
        Andy
        

I think everyone should settle down.

Sheesh, I mean if I can't needle my friends, then whats the friggin' use?
I don't get upset when I hear comments about my taste in rack-stuffing, or
my taste in music, or my taste in pointy headstocked guitars.  I don't
even get riled when Harley people say I "Ride Rice" and wear neon spandex.

...It's cuz I know that most people are just ribbin' me.  I'm ribbin' back.
I don't care if you want to drink with Clapton or if you wanna drink with
Mick Mars or Joe Satch...OR if you wanna be a puff-head or wear combat boots 
and flannel shirts (hey dood!  I'm kiddin'...  :-).

...To imply that you'd want to get physical with me because of my jest, 
indicates to me that someone either doesn't understand where I'm coming from,
or they have a severe case of headstock envy.  :-)  It's also not very nice.

    Gee, I started the Neil Young notes to get the stuff *out* of "General
    Discussion".  Seems enough stuff ends up in there that it's enough tot
    start a new note anyway...like recent stuff about Dream Theater, Neil,
    etc.
    
    People seem to like to bash, I mean this EC thing keeps popping up
    everywhere in this notesfile every few months, just like references to
    Marshalls vs. Kittys vs. MP-1.  It's because we have a small group of
    noters who banter amongst themselves all the time and do it across note
    boundaries.  
    

    re a few 
    
    someone was saying Layla was lame,well I find the bit I enjoy most
    about Layla is the piano bit at the end,the rest is ok but the wee
    piano bit is very cool!
    
    
                                               staynz

Would anyone get upset if I said that I think the slide playing on "Layla"
sounds like a tomcat being neutered without the benefit of anaesthetic?
Or does that belong in the Allman bashing note..?

�^)
*Dave

    Jeff,
    
    Do not delete or move this topic. Obviously many of us have something to
    say in this vein and dammit; it should not be excluded or censored for
    any reason other than those that pertain to decency and slander. (To
    wit your return of my note a few days ago - viewed as *potentially*
    indecent.)  
    
    Folks, I'm surprised at us. First of all I'm surprised that there would
    be any bashing on EC to begin with. I figured the worst would be
    something along the lines of "he does what he does, it works for him
    and others, but not me." Sort of giving him credit were credit might be
    due. But while "RETCH" [sic] and some other comments raised my eybrows, 
    my ire certainly was never raised - and that's the other big surprise. 
    
    It appears that some of us take this sh!t way too seriously.
    (admittedly, my personal belief is that most people take life in
    general way too seriously.)  My advice to those of you who get to
    excited one way or the other about things such as EC bashing, spend
    some of that energy practicing your own guitar instead. It's much less
    futile.   
    
    "sakman"

    Yo Sakdude,
    
    You must not hang with the "young rude musician" crowd much, 'cause
    I've heard a *lot* of 'em saying how bad Clapton sucks.  I mean they're
    BRUTAL!  
    
    Maybe that whole blues-rock, British Invasion thing is something you
    had to grow up with to appreciate (I did).  Of course, when I was
    younger, I wouldn't be caught dead admitting I liked the music my Dad
    liked too, that may be part of it too (of course, I still don't like
    Dad's music, he likes "easy listening"...brrrr!)
    
    Greg

    
    Itzak Perlman was on television the other night talking about
    how he could "cut" Paginini...
    
    A few minutes later Placido Domingo explained that his cat
    could sing better than Caruso.
    
    Finally, I understand that right before he died, Israel Horowitz
    was heard to say "Wakeman sux."
    
    You gotta love public television...
    
    BD

    >Itzak Perlman was on television the other night talking about
    >how he could "cut" Paginini...
    
    Sha...in his dreams.  I heard Itzak do the 24 violin caprices once, and
    his performance of a few of them were horrendous!  Also, it should be
    noted that Nicolo Paganini was also a guitarist, and could play his
    violin caprices on guitar as well (yikes, anyone ever SEE these things?
    Yeah, I can oplay 46 notes over one beat [seriously!!] on the guitar)
    as he could on the violin.

    re .65
    
    Yeah, but can Paganini do the two-handed tapping thing? 
    He also uses the wang-bar way too much.
    
    -Tom

    yeah, this stuff never is all over; and it never ends.  Shawn Clement
    was telling me the other day that his young bass students don't want to
    listen to Jaco.  "Man, he's too boring"
    
    kids...

    
    	My 2 sense about Clapton
    
    	I personnally respect the hell out EC. I don't think he's a
    guitar GOD by any means, but I think he laid alot of foundations
    in guitar for alot of us. What constitutes being great anyway?
    Alot flash, hammer-ons, and garbage. I love most of the new hot
    Guitar players around today. Etc. Johnson, Satch, Morse, Dunn.
    Dunn Who? Gotcha. Has anybody heard any of the guitar work that
    this Dunn guy, who plays for GIANT by the way, Phenomanal stuff.
    Anyway, Not to drift, I think EC has got alot more positives
    than negatives. For those of you who did'nt grow up in the Clapton
    era. You don't know what it was like. He was a god back then. I will
    allways have the utmost respect for the guy. 
    
                         LAYLA YOUR BODY DOWN!!!!
    
                         LESTER PAULINE
    
    
    
    
    

>    listen to Jaco.  "Man, he's too boring"

    Now *THAT'S* blasphamy!

>    Itzak Perlman was on television the other night talking about
>    how he could "cut" Paginini...
    
    Yeah, but Paganini supposedly sold his soul to the devil for the
    privilege of being the "fiddle god" of his day.  Can Perlman say *that*?
    
    P.T. Barnum

    re: .68
    
> Has anybody heard any of the guitar work that
>    this Dunn guy, who plays for GIANT by the way, Phenomanal stuff.
    
    I'm pretty sure that the amazing guitar player for Giant is Dan Huff.
    
    Greg

    Re: .69
    
    Don't forget, Jaco was already on his way out of this world in 1982,
    that was ten years ago and his impact on the scene was in the 76-78
    time frame when records like "Heavy Weather" and "Hejira" hit the
    street.  That stuff is already ancient history to a kid who's 16 years
    old and digging the Chili Peppers.  And noone wants a fretless J-bass
    anymore when they can be slapping and popping on a Music Man, eh?
    
    Besides, Jaco didn't tap  8^)  8^)
    
    						Dave Alexander

>    someone was saying Layla was lame,well I find the bit I enjoy most
>    about Layla is the piano bit at the end,the rest is ok but the wee
>    piano bit is very cool!
    
    That was me.  I was talking about the "new" version of "Layla" he 
    did on MTV Unplugged.  I only heard it once (that is, once "all the way
    thru") but my recollection is that they didn't do the piano part.

It's certainly different... If it weren't for lyrical content, I wouldn't
even have recognized it !!

jc

re: db's comment about M. Jackson

Yep I'd have to say that he deserves respect, after having seen part of the
HBO thing in Budapest, I'd say he has a greate band, works very hard and 
appears to enjoy it.

No that I particularly care for him...

dbii

Years ago, when I read Guitar Player magazine, there was an issue devoted
to Buddy Holly (A personal hero of mine - does my age show?). In it was
an interview with Waylon Jennings, and a comment that he made about Buddy
Holly - it was that Buddy had given him advice: New stop evolving and trying
new things. Waylon said that he took it to heart, however, I felt that 
it was wasted breath on Waylon, because he never tries anything slightly
new or different (no evolution that I can see in any shape or form).

Eric Clapton has a style and sound that I happen to like, but he is not
so much an inspiration to me, as his early work is what I liked best. I
think that he is just starting to realise that ne may need to evolve further.
If I recall correctly, from a previous GP article, Eric Clapton changes his
strings when they become old & rusty & he never liked the feel of new strings.
Funny, I have the same desire on my guitar (I change the strings the day after
my New Years Eve gig every year - I play out a lot, so the strings get a lot
of wear). I liked his recent unplugged effort; maybe with people dying around
him he is tapping some growth that he wasn't aware of. John Lennon didn't
want to be singing 'She Loves You' when he was 50, he felt the past was where
he was & not where he expected to be in the long term. As long as Eric is
true to himself, then he's doing fine.

							Jens

    FWIW
    
    I think bashing is a healthy outlet in these multiple-TFSO days.
    It beats some more destructive alternatives I can easily think of.

    Actually I'm amazed at the ire in these notes (EC, NY) seeing as to how
    they were basically started as a goof...  there's a similar string in
    the MUSIC file called "The I Just Don't Get It Note".  People easily
    forget that the "bashing" notes are set up like the junker car at the
    State Fair where you buy a ticket and get 3 whacks with a sledge
    hammer.
    
    I guess it depends on whose ox is being gored by tipper...  :7(
    \Gary

    Great way to make a first impression Billy.  I wasn't one that bashed
    EC, but can vouch for the talent in here.  Quite a few of the
    guitarists in here could play circles around EC.
    
    Today, making it big is who you know, not how good you are.
    
    Mike

    re: Mike
    
    He's probably just speaking for those of us he's heard (like me).
    
    re: Bill
    
>   -< get a life, huh!! >-
    
    I'm afraid that this *is* my life.  Sucks, don't it?
    
    Greg (who never claimed to play better then anyone)

    re: .81 & .80
    
    Yeah... I might of been a bit over the line on .80 (chalk it up to a
    couple of *VERY* tense days here!!) I still feel that all this bashing
    of EC seems like a cheap shot at aging (but still talented and
    influential) musican/songwriter. 
    
    /Billy_K
    

re: "Quite a few of the guitarists in here could play circles around EC."

I seriously doubt that this is true.  Think about it ....

Jim

>> "Quite a few of the guitarists in here could play circles around EC."

>I seriously doubt that this is true.  Think about it ....
    
    I'm absolutely sure that it IS true, and yet it's totally irrelevant.
    
    It doesn't make them "better" than EC.
    
    I think this is an example of EC-worship:  the guy does certain things
    exceptionally well, but he isn't universally better than anyone in
    this conference in all respects.  It shouldn't pain you so to
    acknowledge that.
    
    I know guys in this conference who can play a wider range of stuff,
    but that does not make them better.
    
    Perhaps the best way to put it is that "playing circles around" another
    guitar player is an ill-defined concept.   Yngwie could "play circles
    around" Dave Gilmour if you define it as "speed" (one reasonable
    definition among MANY possibilities).
    
    However, IMHO Dave Gilmour could burn Yngwie's butt when it comes to
    playing with style and grace (another reasonable definition) in the
    context of a Pink Floyd song.  
    
    But saying no one around here couldn't play circles around Clapton
    in a large number of reasonable definitions is blind hero-worship:
    the standard "Clapton is god" nonsense that even Clapton hates.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. No of course, no one in here could play circles around Steve Morse
         ;-)

    All this "discussion" reminds me of the choosing of the Album
    title for EC's "Theres one in every crowd". EC reportedly wanted
    to name it "The worlds greatest guitarist, there's one in every
    crowd", as a joke/commentary.  They wound up leaving off the
    bits about the "worlds greatest" cause they figured some folks
    wouldn't get the joke.
    
    The joke seems apropos to this discussion.  :+)

    Re: playing circles
    
    yeah, I guess that was a poor choice of words, db.

    re: playing circles around him
    
    What would that involve?  Fretting and playing all the notes on the
    adjacent strings and frets from the one that Clapton is playing?

    While we're in the process of tearing apart Mike's poor old #.81,
    
    > Today, making it big is who you know, not how good you are.
    
    I'm not here to dispute that statement, but Eric had made it big in the
    US when Lyndon Johnson was still President, and was popular in the UK
    even before that (naturally).
    
    Who knows what would have happened if he were to have emerged today,
    but that's conjecture.....  fact is, he pioneered in what he did,
    i.e., copping licks from the old American bluesmen and updating them
    into modern rock music, creating a new genre, his tone, his style,
    etcetera, etc.....
    
    I will admit to liking his Mayall/Cream/D+Ds stuff more that anything
    since, but everything's relative, since there's virtually no music I
    like better than that.
    \Gary

    
    I saw EC on MTV the other night.  He's a lot more solid on some
    things than I am...
    
    At the same time I had the impression there are some things I can
    do that he can't.
    
    I consider him to be good at what he does...so that makes him a
    good player....although I find him boring.
    
    
    minor nit:
    
    
    db,
    
    I think you're totally wrong about Yngwie not being able to play
    "soulfully" (I know you didn't use that word, but...).
    
    
    
    guy

    The great news:   Clapton cleans up on the Grammy's
    
    
    The weird news:   Except for "Tears in Heaven", his "Unplugged" stuff
    doesn't do near as much for me as his former 20 or so years worth of
    writing and playing.
    
    EC one of my all time heroes.....I think he emulated my feelings last
    night when he expressed his "embarressment" for winning on what he
    thought wouldn't even sell....
    
    Steve

    More on Clapton's winning night.....
    
    Even if "Unplugged" wasn't his best work in his mind (or mine), at
    least he finally got some recognition.  Maybe he'll accept the awards
    as a culmination of his entire career's work....
    
    dawg

    Clapton is shite!

    >>Clapton is shite!  
    
    
    Buck, check your spelling before you finish your reply.  The word great
    is spelled g r e a t, not s h i t e......
    
    8^)

    The "Layla"-lounge-lizard version was the last song I'd expect to win.
    
_    /|            _    /|             _    /|            _    /|
\'o.O'             \'o.O'              \'o.O'             \'o.O'
=(___)=   Aack!!!  =(___)=   Aack!!!   =(___)=   Aack!!!  =(___)=   Aack!!!
   U                  U                   U                  U
    

    Clapton is a pioneer. He earned every bit of the recognition that he
    received last night. If it wasn't for Clapton, Eddie Van Noodler and the
    like would be changing crankcase oil today.

    Who said we liked Eddie Van Headache in the first place?!?

    
    	Eddie does a nice solo on the new Thomas Dolby CD.  It's
    	obvious that played with his sound on it because it's
    	much bigger than I've heard with VH.
    
    	Clapton was funny last night.  Seems like a nice guy.
    
    	Tom
    

    Layla Unplugged = "Elevator from Hell"
    
    Next we'll prolly have Led Zepp doin' Whole Lotta Love laidback +
    coostic!

>    Next we'll prolly have Led Zepp doin' Whole Lotta Love laidback +
>    coostic!

*shudder*

    Clapton is ok, but he could copy real bluesmen as well as you and I.

    Hey, let's repeat all the same bash notes over again, beats entering
    something interesting instead  8^)  8^)
    
    						Little Spud
    
    P.S. See you in the Frank Marino bash note....

    No way....frank marino is GOD!

    Hey, I think acoustic Layla is great.  The door is now open for Dave
    Clark's famous reggae version of "Paranoid".  See you at the Grammies
    next year Dave!

    re .-1
    
    yup, those guys were some cool Rasta dudes! 
    
    - Dave

    If the academy that gave these awards presented my main guitar
    influence a Grammy, I'd be totally embarassed.
    
    Milli Vanilli - Best New Artist
    Beaches Theme - Song of the Year (and it was 15 years old at the time)
    
    Mike

    I don't see a problem with that. You're saying that

    (a) everybody in the academy should have known that Milli-Vanilli
        weren't the actual vocalists on their recordings? (psst, that's
        different from lip-syncing to your own recordings which is what 
        many people thought they were doing)

    (b) a songwriting award should only be given to songs that were
        popular the same year they were written?

    Doesn't make sense to me. Most "youngsters" can't appreciate the fact
    that once upon a time, all there was on the radio in the way of guitar
    were songs like "Somebody to Love" and "Light My Fire". Then EC comes
    along -- out of nowhere -- with recordings like Crossroads. And if you
    dug a little deeper you found recordings like "Hideaway" and "Steppin'
    Out" that were recorded in

                                1 9 6 6 !

    It was nothing short of revolutionary. He changed modern music. PERIOD

    Whether or not people think it's 25 years late, I'm glad for Clapton. He
    deserves it. He earned it a long time ago. A besides, "Tears In Heaven"
    is and absolutely beautiful ballad.

    --Ron

    I'm not anti-Clapton, and my point was that Milli Vanilli and Beaches
    were awful.
    
    Sure Eric broke what appeared to be new ground, but a case can be made
    that he copied much of what he heard from the black blues artists.
    
    Mike

>    Sure Eric broke what appeared to be new ground, but a case can be made
>    that he copied much of what he heard from the black blues artists.
    
    But I would argue, Mike, that he didn't "copy" any more than any artist
    that learns from his masters and then takes the art to a new level,
    which is what I think he did. Having influences does not equate to
    "copying" in my book.

    You bet he broke new ground. To a kid learning to play the electric
    guitar it was like a revelation.

    --Ron

    
    As a member of the Academy I have to admit that I'm embarassed by the
    apparent lack of judgement of my fellow members.  I did vote for EC in
    one category (can't remember which) where I thought he actually did the
    best work, but I think my colleagues just got a little too sentimental. 
    The same kind of thing seems to happen too many times: Bonnie Raitt and
    Michael Jackson come to mind - then there's the year Jethro Tull won
    some heavy metal category.  The only saving grace is that Billy Ray
    Buttface struck out totally.  Bottom line: don't put too much weight on
    these awards.
    

    re: .110
    
    Hey bub, this is the Clapton BASHING note, take it to the "Clapton is
    soooo wonderful" note!
    

    Sorry bub. I didn't broach the subject here. I'm only responding to it.

    BTW, I don't take the Grammies that seriously and I don't idolize
    Clapton, either. The man has had his moment in the sun. He's peaked and
    I doubt he'll ever get this kind of recognition again. So it's over and
    those of you who wish to can forget that he ever existed.

    But what kind of person is it that wants to take this away from this
    guy? That feels compelled to shout him down for what? Making music and
    accepting an award? I don't get it. You'll have to explain that one to
    me.

    --Ron

    Sorry, but I just gotta say, I think "Tears in Heaven" SUCKS as a 
    song!!!  It's *so* predicatble -- the first time I heard it, I was
    correctly guessing what the next chord was gonna be ... BORING!
    
    Song of the year, indeed.  Would it have won if it was about a 
    lost love as opposed to his kid snuffing it?  Doubt it..

re .114
I've go to agree on the predicatability.
I also thought that this song was in very dubious taste.
*Dave

    
    
    I think Clapton has earnt his place in the history of rock. No doubt.
    However I often thought that if the Carpenters had originally released
    Wonderful Tonight would it have really rated as a song? Would it even
    have been strong enough to be considered as one of their album tracks?
    I doubt it. Same with Tears in Heaven.
    
    Richard
    
    PS Same with Led Zep's Stairway.
    
    PSS Compare with some Lennon McCartney compositions. There IS no
    comparison.

    EC was interviewed on "Fresh Air" (with Terri Gross - from Philadelphia
    - somehow fresh air and Philadelphia strikes me as mutually exclusive,
    but I digress) recently.  He never made any secret of the fact that he 
    admired, was influenced by, and copied from the blues greats.  
    
    I never got as far as the third or fourth chord of "Tears", cuz it was
    next-button-time for me...  Boring...
    
    Noah Adams                     

Hideaway is a real lousy example of "Clapton's changing the face of rock".
It's a note for note cover of a Freddy King song. he did nothing more than
re-record it.

dbii

    re .118

    Maybe so, db, but it was a great performance and it was among his
    earliest recordings. From there he wasn't content to just imitate those
    that he was learning from. He took a quantum leap forward. I doubt that
    Slash will ever do anything for music let alone do a fraction of what
    Clapton did.

    --Ron

>But... with his unplugged session and this song in particular, EC struck a
>chord (no pun intended) with a huge number of people. 
    
    Probably people who like hangin out in elevators, supermarkets, and
    malls a lot...
    

    >I doubt that Slash will ever do anything for music let alone do a
    >fraction of what Clapton did.
    
    Funny, Slash is credited for making fashionable something Clapton
    was known for 2 decades ago...
    
    Plugging a (vintage) Les Paul into a Marshall Stack and just ripping
    it up!!
    

The song of the year SHOULD have been Metropolis, by Dream Theater.
:-)  Right Buck?
jc

re: hideaway

I find an exact copy that's less inspired than the original to be less than
inspring to me. Had you said that some of his work with Cream or Derrik and the
dominoes was landmark guitar work there would have been no comment from me. 
Hideaway, if it did anything at all, expanded some listeners horizons to include 
some of the great old bluesmen. Other than that it's just a so-so cover. healey
did a more inspiring cover of the song than Clapton.

Don't get me wrong, I *used* to love the guy but today he's more boring than
an O'Dooles. He did make a significant contribution, in his day, but the best
thing he could do for rock/blues today is retire IMHO.

dbii

>    Funny, Slash is credited for making fashionable something Clapton
>    was known for 2 decades ago...
    
>    Plugging a (vintage) Les Paul into a Marshall Stack and just ripping
>    it up!!
    
    Wow! Next you're going to tell me that he can actually stand up OR sit
    down and play too. Awesome.

>I find an exact copy that's less inspired than the original to be less than
>inspring to me. Had you said that some of his work with Cream or Derrik and the
>dominoes was landmark guitar work there would have been no comment from me. 

    I did. That was the thrust of what I said. I pointed to "Hidaway" and
    "Stepping Out" simply to demonstrate the path along which he was
    progressing in those days.

    As far as what he's doing today goes, sure I enjoy his older stuff
    (except for the Dominoes stuff) usually more then most of his current
    stuff. But I also enjoy tunes like "Bad Love", "No Alibi" and both the
    plugged and unplugged versions of "Before You Accuse Me".

    My 5 year-old son makes me listen to "Disraeli Gears" *all the way* to
    *and* from kindergarten *every* day. Must be something to it - but what
    does he know, he likes "Amazing Fruit Gummy Bears" too.
    
    - Ram

    >        -< can someone point me to the Clapton praising note? >-
    
    DIR/TITLE=(PRAISE, CLAPTON) yields "No such note"
    :=)
    

    Mick Jagger sux........

    re: .129
    
    So...what's yer point?

   >> So...what's yer point?
    
    

    re:  2637.124
    
    Maybe I missed a Freddy (or Freddie, I've seen both spellings used) King 
    version of Hideaway that is identical to and (equally important)
    predates the Bluesbreakers album.  But if you're talking about the version 
    that appears on both "Takin Care of Business" and "Let's Hide Away and 
    Dance Away with Freddy King" (as far as I can tell, it's the same take),
    I think it is considerably different from the Clapton/Bluesbreakers version.
    The King version is a simple, straighforward reading.  By contrast,
    Clapton states the basic themes and then adds a lot more.  He fills in
    the gaps, so to speak.
    
    Which is better?  That's a matter of personal taste.  I'm a big fan of
    Freddy King (6 CDs, 2 LPs), but in this case I really like the Clapton
    version best.
    
    Anyhow, if you know of some other Freddy King version of Hideaway that
    does match Clapton's version "note for note," please let me know what 
    album it's on.  I'd like to get it.  But if you're talking about *this* 
    Freddy King version (the "Let's Hide Away" version), then I beg to
    differ.
    
    								John 
                                                       

I'm still waiting for the acoustic version of Revolution Number 9 on his
Unplugged 2 album (now that's a tough song to cover properly)


Block that Kick....

							Block that Kick....

Block that Kick....

							Block that Kick....


					In simulate notes file sterio

								Jens

I wonder what Jimi Hendrix Unplugged might have sounded like.

Jim

    re: -1
    
    Jimi's "wind cries mary" woulda been a good unplugged candidate....nice
    acoustic axe and that smooth voice of his....
    
    steve

Little Wing would also have possibilties. 


Jim

re: .135

>    Jimi's "wind cries mary" woulda been a good unplugged candidate....nice
>    acoustic axe and that smooth voice of his....
    
I've heard "The Wind Cries Mary" done on acoustic guitar, and it works
quite nicely.

-Hal

In that movie "Jimi Hendix" he does "Hear  that train a-comin'" on a 12 string
acoustic. Not bad...especially since he was obviously blow completely out of
his socks.

dbii

    >I've heard "The Wind Cries Mary" done on acoustic guitar, and it works
    >quite nicely.
     
    toldya....8^)        

    BTW, what does any of this have to do with bashing my hero?
    
    dawg

    -1
    I second this! Hey, when I see a topic for Clapton Bashing, gosh darn
    it, thats what I expect to be reading, not this stereo 'block that
    kick' stuff!!!!!!! Besides, is Clapton singing on that? NO!
    Now, he says "I see God" on Zappa's Lumpy Gravy album, but I don't
    think he is saying "number 9" on Revolution 9. Also there was also
    a mono mix of the white album so it wouldn't have been stereo then, 
    cause it was mono. I think the faders on the EMI board went up to '11' 
    instead of '11' too. 
    
    jk
    

    Tuck Andress covers Little Wing/Castles in the Sand with his wife
    Patti, incredible jazz singer.
    
    Thursday night I saw Peter Ostrushko and Dean Magraw (virtuouso "new
    grass" instrumentalists) cover "Light My Fire" and "Strange Days", but
    it was intended as a goof.
    
    Last night at the Ark in Ann Arbor I saw a dude named Oscar Lopez do
    things on a nylon-string 6'er that ought to be illegal!  He's from
    Calgary.
    
    This IS the general discussion note, no?
    \Gary

    
    Now that it's come out that Clapton took Mick Jagger's offer of "Let's
    Spend the Night Together", I wanna know where he got the nickname
    'Slowhand'...
    
    

    >Now that it's come out that Clapton took Mick Jagger's offer of "Let's
    >Spend the Night Together", I wanna know where he got the nickname
    >'Slowhand'...
    
    That hurt Buck, that *really* hurt.......
    
    dawg (guess that's why they call it bashing...)
    
    8^)
    

    I didn't hear this.  Is it true?

    RE: .143  RE: where did he get the nickname 'Slowhand'...
    
    In an effort to keep this from going completely down the tubes...
    I was told that Clapton used to break alot of strings while in
    Cream and the audience would actually clap slowly (aka slowhand)
    while he was restringing his guitar.
                         
    Rock on,
    	   Fred

    Hey, who really gives rat's a** who he slept with?  I buy his CD's
    cause I like the way he plays.

    re: -1
    
    well said!
    
    

    Now we know why EC wrote "Roll It Over" 8^)  8^)  8^)

    re: -1
    
    and so it begins......again!
    
    
    GRRRRRRRRRR 8^)

    No, no... that's what inspired Mick to write "(I Can't Get No)
    Satisfaction".
    
    Dave  %^)

    "So why is it that this crude, indigenous black American music is
    invariably best interpreted by young, long-haired British homosexuals?"
    
    (from the Sid Gormless interview on National Lampoon's "Goodbye Pop"
    LP)

    Raises so many questions:
    
    Mick == Layla - "You got me on my knees"  ???
    
    	db

    "Darlin, you look wonderful tonight" -- a love song for the big lips
    himself!!  
    
    
    RE: Mikey
    
    This was not a tabloid story, it was published in a new book about Mick
    Jagger's life (which hit the stands this week).

    RE -1
    -pulished in a new book........then it must be true...8^).
    	Has Eric responded to this?
    	Wonder when the law suit starts?
    
    	If it would make me play like Clapton, I would have to seriously
    consider sleeping with Mick Baby...8^).......NOT!!!!
    ........Jerry Hall is another mattter 8^)
    
    P.K
    PS is there anyone Jagger hasn't slept with?

re .146 (Fred)

I believe the "Slowhand" nickname predates Cream, I seem to
remember this was his nickname when he was in The Yardbirds
(wouldn't be the first time I'd been wrong, though).

I'd always assumed that the nickname was a sort of ironic
sarcasm, because in those days he was considered capable
of very fast playing.
    
*Dave

    Yeah, I second .157.
    
    It dates back to Clapton's wild days with the Yardbirds at London's
    Crawdaddy club. As does the "Clapton is God" slogan.
    
    The audience at the club were famous for their dancing on the tables!
    Well, you gotta remember that blues/R&B was a pretty new thing for
    British audiences (c. 1964-65).
    
    Dom
     

    RE: PK in .156    
    
    >-pulished in a new book........then it must be true...8^).
    >	Has Eric responded to this?
    >	Wonder when the law suit starts?
    
    Geeez, so much negativity.  Obviously you don't WANT the info to be 
    true (tarnished your idol??).  What cha gonna do if Eric admits to
    it??

    you guys are killin' me.......
    
    8^}

    Hey, howzabout Pete "I'm a woman trapped in a man's body" Townsend's
    friendship with Eric?  Oy vey!

>    PS is there anyone Jagger hasn't slept with?
    
    Yeah, me!  And apparently, the Bulldawg.  But if it'll make me famous
    or play better, I'll wait by the phone; how 'bout you Steve?  %^)
    
    Dave

I caught part of an interview on BCN this morning between Chuck and the
author of this book, and Chuck asked him if he had talked to Mick or
Eric about this and he said no. So, the info is from so-and-so who is a
close friend of Jagger and some other so-and-so said something similar.

Not that I doubt the stories, but most of the writing is not first-hand
so how rich can the content really be? The author sounded like he was a
ways out there too (fishing without his worm).

Droid

      > PS is there anyone Jagger hasn't slept with?
    
     >>   Yeah, me!  And apparently, the Bulldawg.  But if it'll make me
     >>   famous or play better, I'll wait by the phone; how 'bout you Steve?
     >>   %^)
    
    I'll pass thank you.....I don't wanna be famous anyway.  However, if I was
    approached by Mick, I would have the opportunity to stretch his lips
    over his entire body and set him on fire, thereby never having to hear
    that retched voice again......
    
    Jagger bashing anyone?
    
    GRRRRRRRR  8^)
       

    what's with all these legendary rockers turning out to be "nancy
    boys"?  Maybe someone should've taught them how to read or something.

>    It's the same kind of garbage as all those Princess Di and Elvis books. 
    
    I never heard anything about Princess Di and Elvis having anything
    going before, Steve.  Where'd you read that one?  Did they have photos?
    
    gh

    We all know that crap is king,  give us dirty laundry...

    re BUCK
    
    	Maybe the intention of my note was not clear.
    I do like Clapton,think he's a good player...hardly an idol,
    but the point is don't believe everything you read.
    
    	Just seems a little malicious, do you really dislike Clapton?
    P.K

    WHAT DO YOU MEAN "DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ"!?
    
    You mean to tell me Hillary's NOT raising the alien baby in the White
    House!?  Well, then WHO IS raising Stanley?  Or who IS she raising?

I figured this out over the weekend (duh....)

I would guess that the "Slowhand" nickname goes back even
further than the Yardbirds (as I speculated earlier). 
Probably a schoolboy nickname, and nothing to do with guitar
playing.

I seem to remember hearing that Eric's real name is "Eric Clap".
Hence the nickname "Slowhand" Clap.

Pretty good joke, eh. It only took me 30 years to get it.
Just as well they didn't call him "A_dose_of_the". Doesn't have
the same ring to it.

Back to the bashing...
*Dave

    In 2982.94, REESE_K, addressing his comments rather directly to the
    Clapton bashers asks:
    
>    If the guy is over-rated or over-the-hill, why are some of us 
>    having so much trouble getting tickets to his concerts?
    
    I presume that if I tried to tell you what an incredible musician
    Madonna was that you'd accept the same argument you used to defend
    Clapton?  She sells even more tickets than Clapton afterall.
    
    	db

        
>    If the guy is over-rated or over-the-hill, why are some of us 
>    having so much trouble getting tickets to his concerts?
    
>    I presume that if I tried to tell you what an incredible musician
>    Madonna was that you'd accept the same argument you used to defend
>    Clapton?  She sells even more tickets than Clapton afterall.
    
>    	db
    
    Sad when you resort to statements like that to run down ANYONE,Dave.
     

>    Sad when you resort to statements like that to run down ANYONE,Dave.
    
    Bullpuckey.  It was not intended to run down anyone.  May I get struck
    by lightning if that isn't 100% true.  It solely addressed the fallacy
    of the analogy of "sales" and "artistry".
    
    The reason it upset you was because  it struck a chord of truth the
    analogy between that YOU knew you couldn't possibly rebut so instead
    you decided to try and slam me personally rather than my point. 
    
    The irony here is that I suspect even the Clapton fans in here would
    AGREE that sales is no measure of musicianship.
    
    Your response was obvious a rushed reaction because you were clearly
    already on edge about this string.
    
    However, unlike you I don't get pissed at folks in here that easily
    so if you're truly going away (which would be unfortunate) I wish you well.
    
    Peace,
    
    	db

    
    	I just realized how close to the truth my "media brainwashing"
    	comment was.  I've finally figured it out!!
    
    
    	Subliminal messages!!  That has to be it!!
    
    	Obviously, not everyone can hear them.  I can't, and db and
    	Buck seem to be immune also.  But there is apparently a % of
    	the population that's extracting them from Clapton songs and
    	being virtually forced to like what they hear!!
    
    	So, all you Clapton lovers, you can rest easier now knowing
    	that it's not your fault that you like him.  There's GOT to
    	be help available for you and all the other people out there
    	with this same affliction.  And if therapy fails, I think I
    	have Jim Sokolov's number around here somewhere.
    
    	I'm sure I speak for all when I say "We're on your side".
    

    re .-1
    
    go away. get a life. then come back.

    
    	If I were going to go through all the trouble to get a life, why
    	would I ever come back here??
    

    
    
    		CLAPTON IS GOD!
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    							NOT !

re: .175

If subliminal messages in his music are the truth behind EC's popularity,
then he must not be the only one using them. How long could anyone keep that
kind of secret? Then every halfway successful artist must be successful because
of subliminal queues in their music. And the listening public must have no
taste at all but instead are swayed by whatever subliminals get dumped into
their ears.

Explains a lot about the music business. Explains a lot about the taste of the
general public. What about the <whoever>-bashing topics in this conference?

    Clapton is shite!

    
    "Excuse me, I'm here for an argument."
    
    Monty Python or Guitar;  You decide!
    
                             ;^J
    

    Steve Howe is pitching for the Yankees now.

   Re: Buckley

   Based on your comments in 2982.50 I humbly submit that you limit your noting
   to the COASTERS file, and not bother us in GUITAR anymore.  We're sick of
   hearing about coasters, and you obviously don't have anything to contribute
   here, anyway.

   Kindest regards,

   -- Sam

    I think there's gonna be a gum-fight!
    
    Yeeehaaaa!
    
    -kev

   >Re: Buckley

   >Based on your comments in 2982.50 I humbly submit that you limit your noting
   >to the COASTERS file, and not bother us in GUITAR anymore.  We're sick of
   >hearing about coasters, and you obviously don't have anything to contribute
   >here, anyway.

   >Kindest regards,

   >-- Sam
    
    We, eh? Well as one "we" that reads this file, I'm more sick of
    people who bitch about a little fun intended in good humor than
    I am by anything Buck has said...
    
    -b

    hmmm ... have we touched a nerve, sam??  methinks so...
    
    I'm sorry I can't prise Clapton as the ultimate guitar god like all the
    other "cool" people in ::GUITAR -- what ever happened to Valuing
    Differences at Digital?  8^)

   As I've said before, I'm not one of the "Clapton is God" types.  I do like
   some of his stuff, and own about 3 of his albums.  I'm just sick and tired
   of the "he SUX!" type of drivel that is spewed whenever the topic comes up.

   Mr. Markey, I'm sorry for the "we".  Although I will say that there have 
   been *many* people over the last month asking for this crap to end.  It may
   just be chain yanking (comments made by the same author in another
   conference come to mind...) but some of us would like to get on with life,
   and prefer things like the "What Are You Working On?" topic (though I'll
   admit, I haven't contributed to that, because I haven't been working on
   anything recently.)  Even db has expressed displeasure at Buck's comments,
   and he even plays with the guy.

   Buck, it's not like I have a love affair with Clapton, and I don't have
   a vendetta against you.  I just think this would be a better conference
   if you didn't CONSTANTLY post negative stuff about people you don't consider
   the "guitar god of the month".

   -- Sam

    Lemme go on line, Sam, and clarify it for you and the rest of this
    conference ...
    
    The whole "so-n-so sux" comments are IN JEST ... that's right, a joke,
    chain yanking, whatever you wanna call it.  And the "other" conference
    you mentioned these comments appear in, well, look closely at the jist
    of that conference (...it's all about busting b@ll$).
    
    Sorry if they're rubbing you the wrong way -- I promise I'll stop, ok?
    
    Seriously, anyone who KNOWS me knows that I have one of the most varied
    tastes in music going, and those I'm not so hot on, I'm very lienent
    towards people who DO like it.  I really do live by a "live & let live"
    attitude.
    
    I honestly thought this conference was more lighthearted than it
    apparently is, my fault.
    
    
    so, on with the show?
    
    cheers
    /buck
    
    P.s. -- as far as db and his displeasures go....  a) I don't agree with
    most of HIS comments either, but that doesn't really come into play in
    an ensemble situation, now does it?  b) while it was fun, I'm actually
    no longer playing in a band with db.  c) I think I'd be scared if more
    people agreed with my comments .. it's more reassuring when people
    express displeasure at them!   8^)
    

    
    Buck,
         you always told me you were a real hard man and didn't give a
    shite about anyone!
    
    
    
    
    only kidding! 8)
    
    							ian  

    Regarding all these comments about db:
    
    You make it sound like I've totally faulted Buck.  I certainly have not
    and do not.   My feelings were that people were overly sensitive and
    maybe the way I fault Buck was realizing that a tad later than optimal.
    
    However, I'd like to be very clear that I consider being overly
    sensitive as the primary thing at fault here.  
    
    I just knew that it was much easier for Buck to stop than it is for
    people to deal with their own oversensitivites.
    
    	db
    
    p.s. I also want to confirm Buck's claim that his tastes are extremely
    	varied.   I can't think of another person in here whose range
    	of tastes appear to be even 1/2 as wide as Buck's.

   Buck, thanks for your note.  I guess I (and _some_ others) just got a little
   tired of the repetativeness.  I'll lighten up, I promise.  :-)

   db,  "phfft".  :-)

   -- Sam (who's got everybody from Yes/ELP/Rush to Buddy Guy to Yo Yo Ma in
   	   his record collection - oh yes, even some Clapton  :-))

>    other "cool" people in ::GUITAR -- what ever happened to Valuing
>    Differences at Digital?  8^)
    
    We only value excellence now
    
    Clapton is average!

    Buck, you note too much for someone who's so busy.

>    p.s. I also want to confirm Buck's claim that his tastes are extremely
>    	varied.   I can't think of another person in here whose range
>    	of tastes appear to be even 1/2 as wide as Buck's.
    
    yeah those Go-Go's make BBST(tm) a winner everytime.

    HAY ... lay off the go-go's, man, or I'll have to waste you!
    8^)

>   db,  "phfft".  :-)
>
>   -- Sam (who's got everybody from Yes/ELP/Rush to Buddy Guy to Yo Yo Ma in
>   	   his record collection - oh yes, even some Clapton  :-))
    
    How about Dolly Parton?
    
    	db

    
    Hey, the Go Gos were chicks and chicks are cool. heh heh.
    
    -b

>    How about Dolly Parton?

   None by her, but how about George Straight, Randy Travis, and Wayne Watson?
   Or Wynonna?  Or Mariah Carey, for that matter?  There isn't much I'm not 
   "into".  Opera is the only thing that comes immediately to mind.

   -- Sam

    
    	RE: Mariah Carey
    
    	Eesh ... I can't stand listening to her.
    
    	The only thing I'd like to hear coming out of her mouth is my
    	name.  8^)
    

    OK, you rate in the country catagory Sam.
    
    I love Mariah Carey, but I wouldn't regard her as an example of how
    expansive your tastes are.  She's a sorta modern-day R&B artist.
    
    I.E. a blueser except that she can sing like an opera singer.
    
    I generally agree with you about MOST opera, but in my case there
    are exceptions:  "Carmen" foremost among them.

    
    RE: Opera
    
    Gilbert and Sullivan rool, although that's "lyric opera"...
    
    However, if you start going to see opera live, you will become
    a fan.
    
    My favorite opera is probably Die Zieberflaute (the Magic
    Flute) by Mozart, although I like Bizet's "Carmen" and
    Verdi's "Rigoletto" a lot too. I even like Wagner.
    
    Opera is a bit hard to take on record or even TV, because
    the quality of the voices is lost. But seeing good operatic
    tenors or sopranos live is a spine-tingling experience.
    
    I _love_ opera.
    
    -b

    I love Mariah too...  Never heard any of her music, but...
    
    Sam, I'm surprised you don't have any DT listed...Want I should make
    you a tape??
    
    :-)

    I concur with Bri -- Opera ROOLZ!

    I'd like to modify that, slightly...
    
    Wagner Opera rules.

    ditto.  You can't really make an informed call on opera till you've
    seen it live.  Think of that guitar solo that sent shivers up your
    spine; opera will do that to you, and then some.
    
    For my money, Verdi is king; he wrote a lions share of the big ones,
    and even his lesser known works are outstanding.  We saw the Met on
    tour in Boston doing "La Forza Del Destino" several years ago;
    incredible.
    
    One day, I'm going to submit my solo-overdub-all-guitar version of
    the overture to Tannhauser to the GP readers contest.
    
    /figarick

    > One day, I'm going to submit my solo-overdub-all-guitar version of
    > the overture to Tannhauser to the GP readers contest.
    
    Cool! I did the original "horn" arrangement of this same piece
    using sampled sounds for the "Facts About Germany" CD-ROM I
    worked on last year! Great stuff.
    
    -b

    I can't think of a more intense piece in the entire catalog
    of Western music (to me anyway)
    

    Clapton is not God.  I do not think Clapton is God.  Clapton does
    not think he is God.  In an interview awhile back, they showed a
    picture of a fence where someone had painted Clapton is God; EC
    was the first to point out the little dog down in the corner lifting
    his leg on the sign. He got a good laugh out of it.
    
    Are ya'll so young you've never heard the expression "different
    strokes for different folks?"  Personally, Madonna is not my cup
    of tea, but I recognize her appeal to others so I refrain from
    making obnoxious comments to people who are fans.
    
    Aside from Clapton, my favorites are SRV, Allman, Albert King,
    Albert Collins, Buddy Guy, B.B. King, Robert Cray etc.  I was fortunate
    to catch Allman in concert just after I moved to Atlanta shortly before
    he was killed.  I've seen B.B. numerous times (thank goodness he
    appears in Atlanta rather frequently).  Clapton just happen to be my
    personal favorite out of the above, so shoot me!
    
    There are enough music styles to go around for everone; some of you
    need to get a grip.  If you are poking fun, you might try using some
    smileys in your notes ;-)
    

   Karen,

   This is *not* an argument.  It is over!  We've all kissed and made up!

   :-)

   -- Sam

    Did you know that if you rearrange the letters in "Eric Clapton" you
    get "Narcoleptic"?
    
    {courtesy of db}

    > Clapton is not god.  
    
    That's right, Steve Morse is god.  ;-)
    
    	db

    
    	A friend of mine called the other night to ask if I wanted to
    	go see Clapton, since he had a friend with a wristband who had
    	access to tickets.
    
    	Some friend, eh?  8^)
    

    yeah, you should keep better company.

    re: 2982.103
    
    >Sorry for the tease, since the Clapton show on PBS  didn't show, at
    >least in Boston.  
    
    >Don't you hate it when you come home to watch a cool show and instead
    >its the Boston Pops?  Or Ballroom Dancing?  
    
    Y'know, sometimes I think the Claptonites in this conference dangle
    "straight lines" like the one above in front of us bashers just to
    torture us!
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    Ballroom dancing is scheduled to be an event at the next Olympics (this is
    really true).  Maybe they'll include a Clapton Bashing event as well!
    

That would be right up there with the Skate Lacing competition...

    > Maybe they'll include a Clapton Bashing event as well!
    > some potential gold medalists right here in this conference
    
    I think we need to start a "Clapton-basher bashing note".
    
    	db
    
    p.s. Actually, if the truth be known I love ballroom dancing.  Alway
    	 wanted to learn it.  

    RE: .218
    
    Yeabut, Twinkle Toes, how you gonna dance to Steve Morse? :-)
    
    -b

    
    	If you play it at 1/2-speed, you can dance to it while you're
    	transcribing.
    

    > Yeabut, Twinkle Toes, how you gonna dance to Steve Morse? :-)
    
    I don't but this is my line of thinking...   if Fred Astaire can  dance
    with a hat rack and STILL (as he always did) make his partner look good
    I should be able to do something over Morse's stuff.
    
    ;-)

    
    	yeabut, yeabut... Ginger Rogers did everything Fred did...
    
    
    
    	in high heels...
    
    
    
    	Backwards.
    
    	

    >                  -< can't do that with Satch though >-
    
    
    CUZ you'd be sound asleep!

    re: last few ...
    
    this is the CLAPTON bashing topic. Please don't stray from the
    subject matter.

    
    	Clapton sucks more than Morse does!!
    

    but who's the better dancer?
    

    
    	Well, Clapton can tap-dance around a constructive melody.
    
    	He can-can not play to save his life.	
    
    	And he can DEFINITELY skip a guitar solo.
    

    
    Ya know Mr. Slabounty, I was just thinkin' the other day about 
    skippin' all my guitar solos too! It'd be like cleanin' up the 
    environment ya know? The way I look at it...   I'd get paid more 
    for being quiet than playin'!
    
    Hey, thanks for the tip! Besides, if I leave some holes in my solos...
    maybe some music will fall out!
    
    Cool Man...   cool!
    
    	Now what about this Morse guy...   too many notes, he's way too
        frantic, and this new Satchmo kid with the curly hair...  noise
    	and more noise. In 20 years, these guys will be old enough to...   
    	to...   (huh)...  ya mean they're old already? Like I said...  
    	noise, nothin' musical! Hey what bashing note is this anyway?
        No, it's not time for my medication! I just have a headache from
        listening to these Satchmorse kids. Don'tcha have any Advil???
    
    
    		Grandpa Jones
    

>    Ya know Mr. Slabounty, I was just thinkin' the other day about 
>    skippin' all my guitar solos too! It'd be like cleanin' up the 
>    environment ya know? The way I look at it...   I'd get paid more 
>    for being quiet than playin'!
    
    But Fred, I LOVE listening to you solo!   Clapton is the guy that
    should get paid for being quiet.
    
    ;-)  ;-)  ;-) 
    
    	db

    RE: Mr. Blikstineski
    
    Mr. Abatelli is resting comfortably in Central Islip Hospital where
    he's recovering from the dreaded "too many notes" syndrome. He was
    found on the floor about a month ago where he overloaded on a
    Satchmorse CD, (whoever she is) shouting, "too many notes"!
    
    I'll tell him that you were inquiring about his ill health.
    
    
    	Have a nice day,
    			 C.I.