Conference napalm::guitar

    
    	Good one!  I hate Neil because I think he plays stupid!
    
    	-Graham Trash

    I hated Neil because he turned me in to the Narc squad, and I lost the
    entire Pizza and Crab festival in August when I went to the joint.
    
    David (is it lunch time yet?) Crosby

     aside from the fact that the one night I saw him in concert , he 
     had a bad night ( Boston @ the orpium , 2nd night ) and that he
     jumps across styles every album ( flavor/album of the week ) and
     butchers most any style , his voice is irritatingly whiny and
     his abilities on guitar are limited at best, aside from this, he's
     come up with some great songs. As Neil says in the song "old man"
     " doesn't mean that much to me , to mean that much to you "
      His record with albums is pretty spotty to say the least. Stay
     with the greatest his packages, unless you like suffering through
     such miserable stuff as the album "Trans" or the truly awful
     album "Arc" ( feedback album...no tunes just feedback..wonderful
    Neil..)
    
               JMHO
    
     JJT

    
    	Btw, Jack has priced himself out of the sequel to "The Shining"
    	so Neil got the part...
    
    	Red Rum
    

    a total genius. Listen to "Ragged Glory". Incredible. Even my
    wife liked it. But he shouldn't smoke dope for 3 hours right
    before he writes a guest editorial for Guitar Player.

    If I ever saw Neil play I don't remember it, but I don't know whose
    fault that might be.
    
    If you want to see an extended trashing - or at least rebuttal to Neil
    worship - see my series of notes in the MUSIC notes file.
    
    Also, I remember reading reviews with Frank Zappa, and either Duane or
    Jimi, from the early '70s, where they cite Neil as examples of
    something that guitarists shouldn't aspire to.
    
    Maybe he read those reviews?
    \Gary

    I saw Neil in concert in Europe around 82 or 83 about the time he came
    out with the Tron album. He was touring with Nils Lofgren at the time.
    
    His first set was classic electric Neil Young and was really great and
    had the audience pumped up. During the second set he started playing
    stuff off his Tron album. It was heavily electronically synthesized
    vocals and guitar. Totally out of character for Neil and alot of trash
    in MHO. The audience booed him. He made a couple more attempts to 
    continue his Tron stuff with the same result. He finally scolded the
    audience and went on about how in all his years he had never been booed
    by an audience. It was met with more boos. Then he reverted back to
    his standard stuff and everyone was happy!
    
    Actually I'm fond of Neil. Maybe its cause he tunes (untunes) his
    guitar like me. Anyway I don't know anyone else who can do as much
    with a one  note lead as he can.

    I hate to admit it but my cat likes Neil Young.  He even likes to sing
    along.

    I love Neil Young.  I aspire to be just like him.  People who hate him
    are only jealous of his abilities and his success.  I'm offended that 
    anyone would even enter a note like this.
    
    Dave

     
     
     
     
                                not
     
    

    
    
       I hate Neil Young because he is a classic nimrod, has more ca-ca
    comin' outta his mouth than Linda Blair had pea soup, who would be
    perfect for my audiance, but wouldn't come on _MY_ show!!!
    
       Morrie Provich
    
      <insert "A Current Affair" noise here.>
    
    
                                                              

    I heard a new Neil Young song on the radio on my way in to work this
    morning, and I have to say it didn't make me all that ill.  The tune
    was, well, nice enough and his supporting musicians were pretty
    inoffensive and Neil didn't take a lead (*whew*) and his singing was
    pretty laid back - he didn't hold any notes for too long.  I think the
    title was "War of Men".  It's an anti-war song, but the message wasn't
    too preachy, certainly not as holier-than-thou as "This Note's For You"
    or whatever that one's called.  It was all right.  I wouldn't buy the
    album, of course, mostly for fear of what else might be on there, but
    this one didn't actually make me change the station.  I was able eat my
    morning snack upon arriving at work, just like normal. 
    
    And the bass instrument on the song sounded terrific.
    
    Of course, my cat can still sing better than Neil.  And I don't like
    that cat, either.
    
    Dave

>he didn't hold any notes for too long.
    
    But, did he hit any?
    
    ;^)

    Yeah, actually he did OK.  Believe me, I was surprised.  Maybe he was
    in a non-confrontational mood, or maybe they just fixed it in the mix.
    Course, it's when he holds the notes that he really "works on them".
    Where's that dial...?
    
    Dave

    re: .15
    
    I have to admit that's another reason why I don't like Neil Young. He
    really has a blantently sophomoric understanding of politics and
    current issues (even the things I agree with him on) but he mouths off
    like he knows it all.
    
    I liken him to Sinnead O'Connor.

    I always loved "Down by the River" and still do.......
    
    Saw Neil last night on a TV commercial for upcoming appearance on SNL. 
    Man, he looks like sum kinda cromagnum (sp) cave man 'er sumthin'! 
    He's definitely got his own look, sound, style...there's only one NY!
    
    Rambling on......

    Most of the time, I'd guess he's either tone deaf, or completely numb.
    
    You have to wonder, how can a guy sit in on an editing
    session, listening to one of his vocal tracks or lead
    tracks, and actually LEAVE it on the tape.  (Kinda like Dylan
    huh ?)
    
    On the other hand, haf-ta admit, he's written quite a few tunes
    I really like..  Especially when other people cover em ;^)
    
    For the most part though, he could retire anyday now...
    
    ... Then again, isn't it the "Neil Youngs" in Music, that make the
    talented guys really great ???
    

    
    
    I think the most irritating part of the whole NY phenomena is that the
    record companies keep putting out new NY trash, but give new bands so
    much crap...  I, for one, would be much more interested in hearing an
    especially talented cat, a new Blind Lemon Chitlin album, a train load
    of Bosendorfers crashing into the Love Canal and then burning, a first
    grade choir doing the Hallelujah thing, anything but Neil singing or
    bending his Bigsby out of anything resembling musical expression.
    
    In fact, I'd like to hear more of that country band that features a guy
    playing "lead" chain saw...
    

    Anybody see NY on SNL this past weekend?  I did not....how was he?
    
    Steve

    
    	I saw him do Harvest Moon and thought it was really nice.
    	Lots of feeling and very nice acoustic guitar playing.
    
    	Tom
    

    Considering all the bumper stickers that state "I {heart} NY", I
    guess his popularity hasn't faded much...
    
    Edd

    ok songwriter...bad digital engineer. 
    

    
    I think these trashing notes really s***. Anyway, Who's where? and
    Who in the he** are you?
                              
    

    A recent issue of Life magazine was dedicated to 40 years of rock and
    roll.
    
    There's a picture in it of Neil Young that makes him appear to be
    shouting out the letter "A". Everytime I see it I think he must have
    been shouting out all the notes in the solo he was doing at the time.
    
    Edd

    re:26
    
    Obviously a stout fan..
    
    

    I was on my way to a gig on the weekend, listening to the radio. I
    changed stations and picked up on a song half way thru, It was
    obviously live, and the guitar player started on what was a very long
    and somewhat ordinary guitar solo.  I had no idea who it was, I
    listened very closely trying to pick out what he was trying to do, but
    this guy wasn't really resolving or getting there.  
    	Some of it was okay, but in all honesty I never thought I would
    here something so ordinary from what you would expect to be obviously
    a world class performance (big crowd,live recording and all that).
    	It was a Neil Young song. Something about a hurricane was menitoned
    in the chorus.  Now I have only ever heard Neil play acoustic, and
    harmonica.  Was that him playing the solo, if it was then maybe he had
    a bad night, or if that is typical, he should be another guitarist in.
    
    P.K.

    Some solos don't stand well on their own, they need the context of the
    rest of the song for them to work well.  I don't know what you heard,
    but perhaps that was the case with the solo you heard.
    
    Greg

	I've seen him perform that 'live' on film. Must have been
	hot, as there are lots of fans on the frontof the stage making
	it look like he's playing (in a hurricane).

	Looked and sounded good -- but then, I still like 'Harvest'.

	Richard.

re .29:

Neil Young seems to evoke strong response from folks, whether it be admiration
or disgust. When it comes to guitar work *and* vocals, I don't think I've ever
heard him on a *good* day, myself. I like a lot of his writing, though not all.

Then again, there seem to be a lot of people out there for whom everything Neil
does is by definition *wonderful.*

Just one more source of wonderment in the fascinating world of music...


Bob

    > whether it be admiration or disgust.
    
    For the record, in my case, I assure you it is "disgust".
    
    The only thing I admire about him is that he got to sing with Crosby,
    Stills and Nash. 
    
    	db

    >The only thing I admire about him is that he got to sing with Crosby,
    >Stills and Nash. 
    
    Ever notice how those guys never made a good record after Neil stopped
    working with them?
    
    						   Steve Swills

	He must have done something more than make bad records to 
	produce a reaction of disgust? Does his live act feature something
	unspeakable? Anything in the 'Inquirer' about small furry animals
	or anything?

	Richard. (I was once disgusted by Frank Zappa, before I was old 
	enought to find that particular lyric funny!)

> It was a Neil Young song. Something about a hurricane was menitoned
> in the chorus.  

"Like A Hurricane", probalby my all-time favorite Neil Young song (and my
all-time favorite Neil Young guitar solo).

alan

>	He must have done something more than make bad records to 
>	produce a reaction of disgust? Does his live act feature something
>	unspeakable? Anything in the 'Inquirer' about small furry animals
>	or anything?

Well, it's hard to find the right term. I just find his vocal "quaver" just
enough off-pitch that it almost physically *hurts.* His guitar work seems totally
devoid of any concept of chord progression or melody; it does at least have a
recognizable rhythm.

I don't want to inflame any Neil-o-philes, this is just my perception. It seems
that folks who *like* his stuff point to its emotional content as its strength.
(To put things in perspective, though, I consider the successful communication
of emotion the highest aspiration of any musician- I just don't "get" this from
Neil, myself.)

Bob

    re Greg
    
    	You could be right there. Although I did hear the chorus leading up
    to the solo.  What I didn't like, which is just personal taste of
    course, was the lack of note resolution over the chord progression. 
    	I would find it near impossible to learn that solo,as I couldn't
    hum or sing it.
    	I do like the stuff he did with C,S,N & Y though and don't mind
    things like "comes a time" and "hey old man " as I used to play that
    stuff when I first started to play.
    
    
    P.K.

    I just hate his whiney, squeaky off-key voice. {{{{Cringe}}}}
    c, martin

>    But it certainly doesn't bug *me*...
    
    I view your unwillingness to just say "Yeah, ok, he's always railing
    on about something" as a pretty good sign that it does bug you to
    hear ME say it.
    
    This topic has continued on only because you so adamantly defend this
    non-attack.
    
    I started out by writing a tiny little note saying basically "Yeah,
    well he's always going on about something" and was happy to leave it
    at that.   You weren't.
    
    >>And be thankful that you probably never will - one of the things I've
    >>heard him rail on totally cluelessly about is computers.
    
    >For a guy who's made albums like "Harvest" (which just happens to
    >probably my least favorite NY album), I'd say that this only goes to
    >increase his credibility! 
    
    How producing an album like "Harvest" lends any credibility to his
    knowledge about computers is beyond me.  You lost me there.
    
>    just look how laughable CSN became when Young left the band.
>    He'd always written the best songs anyway.
    
    Hmmm... I suppose you could look at it that way.
    
    I look at it this way:
    
    	"Look how good they were before he joined the band".
    
    Perhaps we can combine our two views by saying that Neil Young neither
    improved nor harmed the band.  They did good albums before him and
    with him.   
    
    I think the objective non-NY-worshipping mind (like mind) would
    conclude from these two datapoints that any drop in musical quality
    after he left had  nothing to do with Neil Young leaving as it had to
    do with other  things.
    
    "Other things" like the zillions of reasons why the zillions of other 
    bands that KEEP the same personnel burn out after a few albums.
    
    	db

    
         Maybe I read one of the replies wrong but Neil Young is far from a
    computer moron. I have the Classic Toy Trains magazine where a complete
    full feature article was done on him and the fully *computerized*
    controllers that he designed and built himself for use by the
    handicapped.
    
    -john

    >I think the objective non-NY-worshipping mind (like mind) would
                 ---------                         -----------
    
    I missed this yesterday...probably the funniest part of the whole thread!
    
    Dom (the objective non-SM-worshipping mind)

    > probably the funniest part of the whole thread
    
    Whew... for a minute there I was genuinely worried my comments about Neil
    Young had so bugged you it caused you to lose your sense of humor.
    
    	db

    Neil Young.....Failure!

    Interesting,
    
    		 I wonder if NY *can* hear the difference between 117 VAC and
    120VAC? I remember reading once that some guitar player (Eric
    Johnson??) could hear the difference between battery brands in his
    stomp boxes!!!! I suppose I can hear a lot of things now, that I
    couldn't hear a few years ago.
    
    	Interesting though when people say digital is worse than analogue
    or vice versa, or one is better than the other.  Actually you never
    ever get a true representation of what the sound is, unless, you were
    standing in the same room.  Mic's, EQ, effects,Monitor speakers, the 
    mastering medium, your lounge room etc are all colouring the sound.
    I would find it hard to believe that an artist would have a exact idea
    of how the song would sound at the beggining of a recording session or
    during the songwriting stage that it is at the end.
    
    	I am sure that the technical wizards in the recording industry
    could produce a recording using both analogue (sp) and digital that
    people could not tell apart.
       
    	My motto has become:  Just cause I cant hear it now, don't mean
    I wont be able to in the future.
    
    
    P.K.

    What I read was a claim by NY's amp tech (I think) that Neil could
    guess with startling accuracy the actual AC voltage his amp was
    getting.  The tech claimed he had checked him with his multimeter
    on a number of occasions, and Neil was always right on +/- 1 volt.
    I'm not sure Neil has that great of ears, or just knows his equipment
    that well (he's been using the same amp for over 20 years, he *ought*
    to know it by now).  Probably some combination of both.  Or maybe
    the tech stretched the story a bit...
    
    I've heard the Eric Johnson story too.  I'm not sure I buy that one
    except in extreme cases (e.g. a cheap non-alkaline that didn't
    deliver a solid 9VDC with much of a load).  I would tend to guess
    some sort of placebo effect was involved.
    
    Jim

    Somebody (GP?) had a short bit about this.  They claimed the battery
    thing was due to differences in the internal resistance.  All voltage
    supplies contribute some resistance to the circuit.  I forget which
    is better, more or less, but in any event the claim is that cheap
    carbon batteries sound different (better) than costly alkalines,
    in stomp boxes anyway.  Would be easy and cheap enuff to try.
    

    hey rik -- whatza salsa shark anywayz?

    >I wonder if NY *can* hear the difference between 117 VAC and 120VAC? I
    >remember reading once that some guitar player (Eric Johnson??) could
    >hear the difference between battery brands in his stomp boxes!!!! I
    >suppose I can hear a lot of things now, that I couldn't hear a few
    >years ago.
    
    I bet Keith Richard can identify cigarette brands from the scorch marks on
    his amplifier ;-)
    
    And whiskey stains...
    
    Dom
     

    re salsa shark
    
    scene from the movie "Clerks".  Picture an open jar of salsa and a
    strategically placed tortilla chip.
    
    Good flick, recommended
    

    
    	More resistance = less current, less output
    	Less resistance = more current, more output
    
    	Is more output better, or just louder?
    
    
    	And "Clerks" was a great movie.
    

    re .46
    
    	WHERE are these placebos?????????? Where do I get them?????????
    Will they make me play better??????????????? 
    
    
    
    P.K.

    I'm glad that Neil Young can hear voltage differences, but it still
    strikes me as less important than hearing when your singing is
    so far off key that the cat's ears perk up (I am not kidding)!
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    >I'm glad that Neil Young can hear voltage differences, but it still
    >strikes me as less important than hearing when your singing is
    >so far off key that the cat's ears perk up (I am not kidding)!
    
    Probably explains why Steve Morse keeps his gob shut (on record, at
    least) ;-)
    
    Dom

>>    I'm glad that Neil Young can hear voltage differences, but it still
>>    strikes me as less important than hearing when your singing is
>>    so far off key that the cat's ears perk up (I am not kidding)!
    
>    Probably explains why Steve Morse keeps his gob shut (on record, at
>    least) ;-)
    
    Exactly!
    
    But then, as the point of this whole debate has been, Neil's biggest
    problem is that he doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
    
    That problem is demonstrated not only by his prolific pontification,
    but to his singing as well.
    
    ;-)
    
    	db

    db,
    
    Did it ever occur to you that he may know that he's singing off key?
    
    

    >Did it ever occur to you that he may know that he's singing off key?
    
    You took the words out of my mouth! Not least because he's not always
    off-key (he's miles out on songs like "Tonight's The Night", but not
    on "The Loner, for example).
    
    Personally, I'm not nuts about his voice, but I can't say I'd be
    terribly interested in hearing "After the Goldrush" sung by Luciano
    Paverotti (or even Frank Sinatra).     
    
    Hey, while we're about it, someone better tell Jerry Lee Lewis that you
    don't play the piano with your elbow ;-)
    
    Dom 
    

    >Did it ever occur to you that he may know that he's singing off key?
    
    No, and it strikes me that your claim that he sings off-key despite
    knowing he's off goes over the line, even for a "bashing" note.
    
    Even I gave him more credit than THAT.
    
    	db

    >No, and it strikes me that your claim that he sings off-key despite
    >knowing he's off goes over the line, even for a "bashing" note.
    
    Expect to see bashing notes springing up over the weekend for Jimi 
    Hendrix, Miles Davis, David Byrne, Little Richard, Louis Armstrong,
    Keith Moon and  Billie Holliday...to name but a few ;-) I wonder if
    *they* realise(d) that their style is a little less than "textbook". 
                          
    >Even I gave him more credit than THAT.
    
    So much for that WIDE musical taste you're always going on about, db
    ;-)
    
    Dom

    
    >> No, and it strikes me that your claim that he sings off-key despite
    >> knowing he's off goes over the line, even for a "bashing" note.
    
    I assume the above is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but...
    
    It wasn't solely a conjecture on my part, nor an attempt to bash
    him.
        
    I remember hearing or reading a story about NY during the recording
    session for the Canadian answer to "We Are the World" (NY, Brian
    Adams, and other Canadian artists recorded a song to raise money
    for world hunger).
    
    	It seems during the course of the session, someone tried to 
    	politely tell Neil he was singing his harmony line a bit 
    	off key.  Neil simply nodded, smiled, and said "Yeah, that's 
    	my style"
    
    So I guess he likes being notes being off pitch.  Maybe he likes a Bigsby 
    whammy bar for the same reason  ;^)
    
    Jim

>    Expect to see bashing notes springing up over the weekend for Jimi 
>    Hendrix, Miles Davis, David Byrne, Little Richard, Louis Armstrong,
>    Keith Moon and  Billie Holliday...to name but a few ;-) I wonder if
>    *they* realise(d) that their style is a little less than "textbook". 
    
    Hey, you're the one comparing them to Neil Young.
    
    As far as I'm concerned that's serious "bashing".
    
    	db
    
    p.s. Aren't you forgetting Ringo Starr???  ;-)

    
    my wife and I were at a party a few weeks ago when someone brought out
    a guitar and harmonica and started tuning up."Great" we thought,"a wee
    sing-a-long".This guy played about 7 songs in a row and all were Neil
    Young songs sang in Neil Young's "style".It was good for a little while
    but soon I wanted to club the guy with his own guitar!
    
    the guy also didn't take requests.
    
    the moral of the story is.....while Neil Young is a great
    songwriter,his singing sucks and gets really on yer nerves in a short
    while!I don't think i could listen to him for a whole album!
    
    
    					ian