Conference napalm::guitar

see notes 42 and 1495 for more discussion already started about Dobros...

I'll try to answer some of your questions here...

    
>    - What are some of the better brands (I know about National - are there
>    other good brands?)

Dobro made by Original Music Industries (O.M.I.) still make them, and are
the premier factory made wood body types as well as metal bodies.  O.M.I.
is the current owner of the Dobro name and patents...

There are a number of small builder who make excellent instruments.  Currently
Paul Beard and Tim Scheerhorm make some of the best square neck models.
    
>    - Are new ones as good as older ones? Who is still making them?

The new ones are pretty good.  The older ones tend to be considered "vintage"
and cost ridiculous prices.
    
>    - Where would I be likely to find some I could try out?

I believe the Music Emporium in Boston (Cambridge?) has one on display
although it is their entry level model.
    
>    - How much would I have to pay for something decent?

The entry level OMI can be picked up for less than $500.  A decent one
would run you more around $800-$900.  You might be able to find a used
one for less (maybe $500).  A custom made one or a vintage one would 
probably run about $2000.
    
>    - What would be the best amplification method for a dobro? I assume
>    bridge-type and soundhole-type pickups don't apply. Can something else
>    be done, other than direct miking, like a contact mike?

Direct miking is really the best way, but there are alternatives.  Jerry
Douglas uses a Lawrence magnetic pickup mounted between the two screen holes
going to one side of a stereo output and a small microphone mounted on the
cone going to the other side of a stereo output.  These can be mixed with
something like the Fishman preamp/mixer.  

They are also looking at some type of split bridge type piezo pickup like
the Fishman piezos.  The problem here is the bride is two pieces seperated
by a screw attaching it to the cone.
    
>    Any other comments on dobros are welcome here as well.


Most of my comments are based on wood body, Bluegrass style (square neck)
instruments but could apply to others...

_gary (current owner of two dobros)...

    According to the Mandolin Bros. catalog, you can buy dobros under the
    National brand name or OMI (Original Musical Instrument) brand name,
    both square neck (bluegrass style) and round neck, metal or wood body,
    even some electrics.  Not sure who owns the National name, but in the
    late seventies OMI was the official descendant of the original Dopyera
    Bros. company.
    
    The cheap models in the MB catalog start in the $600 range and go up,
    but then MB is not known for having rock botom prices.  For a more
    local dealer, check out Music Emporium in Cambridge.  Call ahead and
    see what they might have.  
    
    Also, talk to Robbie Phillips at Sandy's Music in Cambridge, he has
    been building some weirdo dobro-based instruments for a few years. 
    I've seen some of these: a nine-string guitar, dobro ukelele.
    
    						Brian

    Brands: Dobro...yup, it's a brand also and, as you mentioned, National.
    
    New vs. old: Like guitars.  Some truth, some myth.  I double on dobro,
                 meaning it's not my main instrument, meaning also I don't
    	         have enough experience to differentiate the great ones
    	         from the good ones.  I have a Dobro squareneck that sounds
    		 like I think a dobro should.
    
    Places: Sandy's Music on Mass Ave in Cambridge might have one or three.
            Cambridge Music Center...maybe?
            Mandolin Bros, Staten Island   <--- a great place
     	    George Gruhn Guitars, Nashville
    
    Price: Like $350 and up new.
    
    Mic'ing: I've mic'd them live with a Sennheiser, but I've read an 
             article on Jerry Douglas's dobro describing how a Sony
    	     conderser capsule is mounted inside the box, with a jack in
    	     the tailpiece.
    
    BTW, check out 'Fluxology' by Jerry Douglas and friends for some great
    playing.  Note also that dobros are tuned differently than guitar.  The
    most common tuning is two G triads stacked on top of each other: G B D
    G B D, low to high.
    

    Elderly Instruments in Lansing MI has a pretty good selection, does
    mail order, and has a knowledgeable staff
    \Gary

    Some companies are marketing Far-East made "Dobro's" under the Regal
     & Hohner brand name.They really sound excellent,are pretty cheap,and
    look pretty good.
    	One thing,don't let anyone tell you that the higher line models
    of Nationals & Dobro's sound better than the lower-priced models,cause
    they use *EXACTLY* the same resonator cones,and that's where the sound
    comes from....not the body.The rest is cosmetic.
    	Which brings me onto the amplification;- if you use a magnetic
    pickup,they sound just like any other guitar,if you use a transducer
    only,you lose that "hollow twang" no matter where you put it.
    	Ideally,a unidirectional mike,or,as before,a mini-mike/transducer
    combo.                                          

	Ram, You're not alone. I'd love a Dobro or National Steel even 
    though my slide playin is not up to par. Perhaps one of these would 
    inspire me to work on my slide technique.

	The history of Dobro, National, OMI, Valco, etc. reads like 
    a script for a soap opera. For the most part, the name "Dobro" refers 
    to wooden instuments, and the name "National" refers to metal bodied 
    instruments. 

	Some of the first Nationals had three small resonator cones
    with "spider" bridges. These are referred to as National Tri-cone
    resonators but should not be confused with "Triolians" which used
    a single cone resonator. Vintage Nationals command ridiculous prices
    (about $10K for an original Style 4).

	There are basically four differant flavors of steel bodied 
    Nationals being made today. All have single cone resonators with
    "biscuit" bridge. Some Nationals are painted. Many of these have
    greenish colored crackle paint, which in my humble opinion is FUGLY.
    Plated Nationals are available 1. plain (no designs), 2. with designs
    sandblasted through a stencil, and 3. with designs engraved into them.
    Painted are the cheapest, then plain plated models, than sandblasted,
    then engraved. A new plated/engraved National will set you back close
    to $2k. 

	A guy that used to work here owns a Plated National. His has
    a Di'Armond magnetic pickup installed near the base of the neck.
    Bonnie Rait and John Hiatt supposedly use the same pickup on their
    Nationals as well. Personally, I could never bring myself to cut a
    hole in one of these instruments. 

	As far as Dobro's (wooden-bodied instruments) you can get imported
    Dobros from Regal, Saga, and a third Korean company (the name escapes
    me). The bottom line American made Dobros include the "Hound-dog" 	   
    and the "Hula Blues" models, both of which sell for about $500.
    MacDuff's music in Shrewsbury has a new Hound-dog with Spanish (round)
    neck. It plays pretty good. My only complaint with the low-end Dobros    
    and Regals I've seen is the finish looks like it was applied by an
    amateur with a aerosol spray can. I could definately do a much better
    finish at home.

	I still kick myself for not buying the plated National that MacDuff 
    had a few years ago for $350 w/hs. It was brand new and had a nice 
    floral pattern sand-blasted onto it. One of these puppies is at the
    top of my wishlist, but it will probably have to wait for 1993. So
    far during 1992, I have bought 4 guitars, and built a bass, **BUT**
    I still don't own a Les Paul or a National.

	Mark (Cronic GTS sufferer).
    

    I did some reading last night, and realized that Saga makes the Regal
    dobros, so they are one and the same.
    
    I checked out one of the new Korean made dobros being sold. The
    name escapes me, but I've seen them in two differant stores for
    about $399. I'd throw in another hundred and get the USA made 
    Hound-dog model.
    
    The mandolin Bros. catalog is the best place to see the full roster
    of Dobros available.
    
    Ram, you've got me on a Dobro kick now. You should be ashamed of 
    yourself, adding to my already cronic GTS.
    
    Mark

    
    Just yesterday (how timely) I saw a nice looking, good playing, and
    great sounding American made dobro by the Morrel (I think) family.
    The one I saw was a wooden model and the price tag was in the 500
    dollar range with, I'm pretty sure, hard shell case.
    
    Check out Belisle Music in Manchester, NH.  Tel (603)668-6114.
    
    Ben.

    My understanding is that Morrel is a Korean import. I've been
    wrong before.
    
    Mark

    Just to pick up on a point made in .7.....
    
    The National Tri-cones did not have spider web bridges.
    
    The bridge was T shaped and was an aluminium casting.
    
    As shown above, the strings run from left to right and each point of
    the T sat on a spun aluminium resonator. 
    
    Examples of users of this model are Riley Puckett and Peetie
    Wheatstraw.
    
    With regard to the base note, I wonder what sort of music is being
    played. Use of the term (slide) implies blues and for this the metal
    body would be better, imho.
    
    The wooden bodied Dobro, played horizontally and with a raised nut is,
    as has already been stated, for bluegrass.
    
    A minor digression.....
    
    As a matter of interest, in the 70's I used to correspond with a guy
    called Bob Gear who lived in Cambridge Mass. I believe. He was a National 
    collector and I was very interested in the instrument in those days. He
    sent me masses of photographs of his collection, which I still have.
    
    I wrote to many other folks in the US, including an ex policeman called
    O.T.Coffin.
    
    Bob Gear asked to see all my correspondence and through doing that he
    contacted Coffin. 
    
    The outcome was that Gear gained access to Coffin's collection of
    pre-war Hawaian (sp) records by people like Sol Hoopi and the final
    result was the issuing of the album called Hula Blues, on Rounder.
    
    Gear sent me a copy of the album, I suppose as a gesture of thanks, but
    I was always annoyed that my name was not included amongst the
    acknowledgements. It's only a small thing, but I would have found it
    quite exciting.
    
    Gear also made an album of his own which he sent me a copy of.
    
    Anybody ever heard of him?   
    
    andy 

    Which models of Nationals used the spider bridge ? 
    
    One of the features I like best on the Style 4 was the grated
    sound holes (as appossed to f-hole on most Nationals, and sound
    screens on Dobros). Do any of the newer Nationals have this
    type of soundhole design ?  Has the original Style 4 ever been
    reissued ?
    
    Anyone have an address or phone number for the present manufacturers
    of National and/or Dobro ?  I'd like to see if they have a catalog
    available.
    
    Mark
        

    As far as I am aware......
    
    The spider bridge is used on dobros (with the single large
    round cover plate), Nationals used the "biscuit" bridge.
    
    Wooden body dobros use the spider bridge. 
    
    Nationals are being made again, but not the tri-cone unfortunately.
    
    What a beaut that tri-cone is.
    
    
    andy

    re: .11
    
    I'm playing acoustic blues, not bluegrass. I'm glad you pointed out
    that the metal is probably better for blues. I would've been inclined
    to go this route anyway, because I'd really like to get a strong,
    metallic sound out of it, something very different from my Martin.
    But if I'd found a nice wooden model I might have picked it up. If you
    think the metal one is better for blues, I'll hold out for that.
    
    - Ram

    It's different folks for different strokes.
    
    I used to have a 30's National Triolian once and boy it was LOUD.
    
    Great for blues, particularly slide, because the action was a bit high.
    
    My advice would be to try, if you get the opportunity, and compare
    the two.
    
    Certainly the old bluesmen used metal almost, if not completely,
    exclusively.
    
    I can think of Blind Arvella Gray, Blind Boy Fuller, Peetie Wheatstraw,
    Riley Puckett, Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Scrapper Blackwell, Son House,
    Bukka White as names who all played a steel bodied instrument.
    
    Coming up to date there is Mark Knopfler, Rory Gallagher, John Hammond
    and I am sure others, who use steel. 
    
    
    andy 
    
     

    I saw this in the WantAds this week, in case anybody's interested - I
    am, but this is way out of my range. Sounds like it could be great.
    
    	1933 Metal Bodied National Steel Guitar - W/sgle resonator, serial
    no. 5546, 14 fret, solid head, untouched orig., gd neck & frets. Plays
    & sounds beaut. $1500. Nice hardshell case incl. (Rochester)
    603-332-3263.
    
    If anybody is serious enough to go up there to look at it, let me know.
    I might want to tag along just to see what it's like.
    
    - Ram

    
    From the "now-I've-seen-everything" dept: National is now
    making a dobro bass! There was a mention of this beast in
    Bass Player's NAMM show sidebar. The local folkie shop,
    Colorado Springs Folklore Center, got one of the first available
    and I had a chance to play it t'other day. It's unique, if
    nothing else. 
    
    The one they got was the lesser version with F-holes and no
    binding; list was some $1400 with hardcase. It's built with
    a long-scale neck and factory strung with bronze roundwounds...sounded
    kinda nice, actually. I'm sure that the intent was to overcome
    the usual volume issues normally associated with acoustic basses.
    Louder it was than, say, the big-bodied Guild or a Martin...but
    then again it didn't have the warm/fat sound I expect from either
    of them. More like a "thinner" sound. Also, there are no onboard
    electronics.....so what it does is what it does and I'm not sure
    how it would fare when played with acoustic guitars.
    
    Get yours now and beat the rush! :)
    
    DAP
      
     

    How long is 'long' scale on these?
    

    
    Rick.....looked and felt to me like standard 34" long scale...
    unlike the Guild which is 30".
    
    Also, I asked if this was a US-made instrument and they said
    "yes".
    
    DAP