Conference napalm::guitar

    That's a nice choice of axes fer the blues (IMHO)...I alternate between
    a strat and a Les Paul when playing the blues, depending on the tone I
    feel like gettin'. I use Dean Markley strings on both.  I use .009's on
    my strat and .010's on my Les Paul.  Yer Gibson will produce that nice
    fat creamy sustained tone with .010's.  .009's will probably sound fine
    as well; knkda depends on YOUR preference.  If yer gonna play slide as
    well, you might consider the 'fatter' .010's and a little higher action
    setup.
    
    FWIW,
    
    Steve

    .009's feel like slinkies on my Les Paul.  Not quite as bad on the
    Strat due to the higher string tension imposed by the longer scale
    length.  I'm thinking of going to .011's on the LP though, and .010's
    on the Strat-type guitars.
    
    Greg

    I decided, on my last restringing of my Guild, to move up to 11's. My
    Guild is equivalent to your 335. I had used 009's on it for years but
    have come to realize that the heavier the string, the better the tone.
    But, the law of diminishing returns applies here in that you get
    to a point where the tone sux because you can't play the damn thing
    anymore. 
    
    I keep 009's on my Strat. I use it most of the time bending and
    vibrating (don't know if theere is such a word, but you know what I
    mean) notes. If don't need to stretch the strings so much, I'll use the
    Guild for a different flavor. 
    
    I think next time I put strings on the Strat, I'm gonna put 10's on it,
    maybe working towards 11's or even 12's.
    
    BTW, SRV used 14's!
    
    "sakman"

    Oh, so  SRV is using .014's now.  Gee, last year, it was .013's.

    
    	335's are a shorter scale than Strat styles.  .09's on my 335
    	bend very easily compared to my Schecter.  If you're trying to
    	match to a Strat with .09's, for example, go up to .10's on
    	the 335.
    
    	Tom
    

    >>Oh, so  SRV is using .014's now.  Gee, last year, it was .013's.
    
    uh oh, -  Buck 's taken a smart-ass pill again  ;^)

    SRV used .015's for the best tone ever

    Uh, uh, SRV used .250's....his 2nd string was actually a coat hanger!

    ... but didn't SRV have to superglue his fingernails down?
    
    I use .010s on my 345.  I tried stringing it with .011s a few months
    ago, but I need to be able to bend a minor 3rd and I just wasn't man
    enough ... had to back off.  

    Naw, he used Monster cable!

    I second (or third or fourth) the vote for .010's. I'm using them on my
    345 also, and I find .009's to be way too light. I've used .011's in
    the past, and agree that would be a good direction to go if you favor
    "tone over feel". I can handle .011's, but just prefer the feel of the
    .010's. They're a good compromise, and probably the right place to
    start.
    
    - Ram

.010 - .042 works fine with me on all my axes!!!

Greg, IT'S ABOUT TIME YOU GOT RID OF THOSE WHIMPY .009'S!!!
8*)

Jmystr

>Greg, IT'S ABOUT TIME YOU GOT RID OF THOSE WHIMPY .009'S!!!
    
    Yep!  But I got rid of those wimpy bottom end strings with 'em.  ;^)
    
    .010-.046 for me!
    
    Greg

    RE: -1
    
    the .010's on my LP bottom out at .046.....big fat tone!
    
    Stevo

    re last few ..
    
    try the 10-52's. That's what I use on my Strat for that elusive 
    KILLER fat tone.

    Wow...You guys must be in a different league than I. I'm an .008 man. I
    like to bend my strings a lil', and I use them with a Floyd rose and
    Kahler tremelos...Those other ones are like ropes to me. I used to use
    them in the oLd DaYs..

    I started with 11's, got used to those, built strength, went down to
    10's, now I'm using 9's cause I found the others were too "boomy" and
    bass-like.  I think the 9's have a good sound on me strat!
    
    Chad

    It's a concensus, then,
    
    .009's on the strats, and .010's on the Gibsons....

    "Old days" reminds me of when I was a kid just learning how to play. I
    had a Sears Silvertone guitar with the amp in the case. Now I didin't
    know any better cuz no one ever told me, but i used to use Flatwound
    strings. Must a been about .014's. I thought they were the thing to use
    since they didn't exhibit the string noise as I ripped thru the chords
    to "Gloria". And then when I learned the lead to Louie Louie ... Oh man
    I thought I was baaaaaddd!
    
    Anyway, I wondered at the time if trying to play the
    guitar was going to hurt my fingertips forever.  I was good for about
    20 - 30 minutes and that was it. Then someone hipped me to .009 round
    wound. Oh Nirvana!
    
    
    "sakman"

No consensus here, I use .095's best of both worlds, stiffer/stronger than 9's
stay in tune and tone like 10's!


dbii

    Can't I relate to anyone? All the guitarists I know use 008.'s. Maybe
    it's the New England air out here...Does anyone use them??

   Nah, I don't like playing spider webs.  :-)

   -- Sam (.11s for me - even on the Strat)

    
    
    Yup, I use 8's.  But, on my Hagstrom Swede, the tail piece is not
    adjustable for hight (tension) as it is on a Gibson.  It's screwed
    tight to the body.  So, 8's end up feeling like 9's do on a Les Paul.
    
    I don't have a heavy touch, nor particularly strong hands, so the light
    strings work fine.  I also have so much gain on hand that some slight
    loss due to the 8's isn't a problem.
    
    Kevin
    

    RE.22   11'S!!! I'd take spider webs over crane cables any day ;^)
            I used 8's for years,but the store was out one day so I settled
            for 9's. I thought the added tone was worth the slight loss
            of flexablity so I'm sticking with them for now. I played a 
            friends guitar that had 10's and it was like playing bass!!! 
            I can't imagine what 11's are like. To each his own I guess.
    
                                                

    11's *are* playing bass!  8^)
    
    IMHO, of course!
    
    Chad

    >11's *are* playing bass!  8^)
    
    Far from it, my bass strings start at .050!   
    
    						Arnold Schwarzenbacher

    I'll be back...

    
    I like D'Addario stainless steel 10s on my strat -- more tension 
    than 10s, but not as much as 11s.  I use 11s on my ES175 clone.
    
    I bought a new Am Std strat a few months ago, and it came with
    9s.   I had fun bending strings for a few days, but quickly went
    back to the heavier strings.   I missed the tone.
    
    Jim

My problem was/is that .046's were too "boomy", and .090's were too
whimpy.  Solutions, used to cross set of .042-.090 with .046-.010, 
and came up with .042-.010.  Now I order boxes of Boomers custom 
gage w/.042-.032-.024-.018-.013-.010.  This gets more of that "compressed"
tone overall.

Jmystr

    I find .011 for my high E is best for me on my Fenders. I can live with
    .010, though. But I can't even try a guitar in a music store because
    they're all strung with .009s. They play like sh!t. No tone, either.

    I thought the lighter the string the easier it is to play...It gets to
    be like playing acoustics with the heavier guages. You can fly on the
    neck with lighter srings. It's like there not there. You just got to
    get used to them. I didn't even have to get used to them...They felt
    good for the first time and now I would never change. I kind of wish
    they would come out with 007.'s (ha ha).

    I tried .008's once...And your right - it's like they aren't even
    there...But that was bad for me cuz I'd do bend and end up with strings 
    on top of my fingers and stuff.
    
    Like you canget used to 008's, you can get used to 9's, 10's or
    whatever.
    
    jc

    RE. A few back.
    
       I've found that any loss of tone from lighter strings can be
       easly compinsated with a little adjustment of the tone knobs
       on the old amp. Just add a number to your Bass & Treble knob
       settings and thats it.  Its the amps job to make the thing sound 
       good,the Guitars roll is to make it feel good,and lighter strings 
       definatly do that (for me at least).

    I've used 9's for years but have used 8's from time to time, depending
    on what kind of stuff I'm playing. Now I'm going for 10's and maybe
    11's. The thing now, for me, is working the pick more. I think you get
    a better percussive response with a heavier string ala SRV. Rakes sound
    crummier as you get to lighter strings.
    
    "sakman"

    AMEN!! That's exactly what I do. If the strings set on the top of
    you're fingers you could drop the action on your guitar. My strings are
    practicly touching the fingerboard. We're talkin' "FLY BABY FLY!!"...
    You would be thanking me for this...

NOT!

I mean that when I do the bend I can push those .008's right off the 
fretboard.  I don't like my action too low anyway.

:)

    I completely disagree with the person that said you can compensate for
    the lack of tone you get by using thin strings at your amp.  Your
    pickups don't work as hard, there's less magnetic density for them to
    read the vibration from.  I'm not talking about a lack of response in
    certain frequencies, which you could probably compensate for at the
    amp.  It's the strength of signal that makes it.  
    
    I suppose that if you run it into something like an Mp-1 or a
    "ThrashMaster" stomp with the gains set to 10, then it doesn't matter
    what you feed into it because pretty much anything's going to sound the
    same.  Like that ad for the Marshall ShreadMaster says "it will
    annihilate the tone of almost any amplifier and infuse it with it's own
    molten metal, thrashing death tone."
    
    Your fingers will get used to just about anything you choose to stick
    under them.  I don't like the feel of .008's for the same reason I
    don't like Kahler tremelos, they are too soft.  I like to be able to
    feel my strings.  I believe that the added tension gives me more
    control (to a point).
    
    I used .009s for several years, and still like them ok, but .010s feel
    and sound better to me today.  I tried to change to .010s a few years
    back and couldn't get used to them.  I think it was because I didn't
    give them long enough to get used to them and didn't really listen to
    the difference in sound.  But I love 'em now.
    
    A friend of mine used to (probably still does) use .013s on his
    guitars.  I played one of 'em once and it simply screamed.  Don't know
    if it was the guitar (a PRS), the pickups, or the strings, but it
    sounded kill!  However, I couldn't deal with strings that heavy.  My
    compromise was moving up a gauge on my Les Paul and I noticed an
    immediate difference.
    
    Greg

   Well, not only do I find the heavier strings do give better tone (for all
   the reasons mentioned, especially by Greg), but they allow me greater 
   control, too.  If I use 9s or less I tend to bend notes within chords by
   accident, and it sounds like squat.  Plus, I play both bass and acoustic
   guitar in addition to electric, and find it easier to switch between them
   all when the electric has stiff strings too.

   -- Sam (going for tone, not "flying")

    .008"? What's that? OH! Oh yeah, I've heard of strings as thin as
    .008's, but aren't they the type of strings that break all the time
    and have a thin (no balz) tone? Maybe...  and don't they feel like
    rubber bands when you play them? And don't they make your chords sound
    slightly out of tune (sometimes) because they are so slinky and your
    fingers bend the notes ever so slightly because they're so flexible?
    
    .008's? Never heard of them.   
    
    ;^)'s
    
    Rock on,
    	    Fred (.010"-.048 & .011"-.052" player)
    
    P.S. The bigger the string...  the bigger the sound  (IMHO of course)

    Allin getting used to on the bends too. I do use an MP1 and a boogie. I
    get all I want for tones. The 008.'s suit me fine. As long as you guys
    are happy and comfortable with you're stringys. Just wanted to try to
    talk some of you into trying some spider webs...

    Just a theory here,but I bet the people that prefer the heavier strings
    also prefer Fender guitars,and the light prefer Gibson.  Though both
    have great sound,I think Gibsons are much easier to play,so people
    interested in that style of play would also tend to use lighter strings
    to make playing even more effortless. Fender players tend to like to
    feel every note under their fingers,and therefor tend to use heavier
    strings too.  Just my opinion, Any comments ?
      
                                          SG/LP/ES347 light string man ;^) 
    
                                    

    Guitar:  Fender Squier Strat
    Strings: 9-guage.
    
    Never played a Gibson....
    

    ok, ok, everybody is right.....ok??!!

>    Just a theory here,but I bet the people that prefer the heavier strings
>    also prefer Fender guitars,and the light prefer Gibson.  
    
    Interesting theory.  Given the same string gauge it will feel lighter
    on a Gibson scale length then on a Fender scale length guitar.  I
    played Fender scale length guitars (a Strat, an Ibanez, a Kramer, a
    parts guitar) for several years before I decided I like the way
    Gibson's sound better, last year.  Perhaps that's one of the reasons I
    wanted to string it with heavier strings.  The .009s that I used on the
    Fender scale guitars felt like slinkies on the Gibson to me.  
    
    Also, around the same time I switched to the Les Paul, I started
    developing more emphasis on my rhythm playing then my lead playing
    (which sucks anyway), and adopting a heavier rhythm playing style and
    the .009s I was using at the time didn't feel good for that.  They'd
    clank around and sometimes even pop out of the nut.  A little heavier
    string gave me a fatter sound and a more solid feel to the guitar for
    that rhythm thing.
    
    But I've always said use what feels right to you.  However, if you
    haven't tried heavier strings (or haven't in awhile), it might be worth
    your time to give it a fair shot.  I found that it made a significant
    audible difference in my sound.
    
    Greg

    I can see using a heavier guage for rythm playing. Nice sound for that.
    But whatever feels good to you - use...For my lead playing I need
    008.'s. I use a Kramer Sustainer with a Floyd Rose and I still can
    manage in some way to keep them from falling apart, although I've had
    many a nights that the strings have controlled me. So it has its
    advantages and disadvantages...With my Guild solid They stay together
    all the time...

    
    
    I've been using 10's on my Charvel for about a year and I've just
    decided to go down to 9's, mainly because I'm working on legato
    type stuff and although my fingers are fairly strong (with regards 
    to bending etc) I just can't seem to get the speed I'm after. So I
    thought I'd try going down to 9's to learn the TECHNIQUE and then 
    after say six months or so switch back to 10's to get the TONE.
    
    	J
    

One thing I have found is that the lower guage strings (.008's) are actually
worse for legato type stuff. i.e. with less tension in the string it's actually
harder work to do hammer-ons and pull-offs.
Anyone else found this...?


(Cue Brass band playing Dvorak's New World Symphony)

I don't know, the youth of today have it dead easy. Custom strings!
When I started playing, I used to use a "standard" set of strings moved down
(i.e. use the 1st. string as 2nd etc. and bin the 6th. string) with a banjo
string on 1st.!
They've got TAB for every solo, and even instructional videos...
In my day you were lucky to get the sheet music for the lyrics (the music
was unusable because it was in Eb or something, having been transcribed
by an out-of-work horn player, and was also highly inaccurate).....

*Ageing Yorkshireman

>>I don't know, the youth of today have it dead easy. Custom strings!
When I started playing, I used to use a "standard" set of strings moved down
(i.e. use the 1st. string as 2nd etc. and bin the 6th. string) with a banjo
string on 1st.!
They've got TAB for every solo, and even instructional videos...
In my day you were lucky to get the sheet music for the lyrics (the music
was unusable because it was in Eb or something, having been transcribed
by an out-of-work horn player, and was also highly inaccurate).....

*Ageing Yorkshireman
    
    
    I discovered light guage strings in 1968....(I was on my first Gibson, a
    "Melody Maker"...gee I wish I still had *that* little baby!)  I remember
    the whole new world it opened....I could actually bend and shake those
    guys!
    
    You're so right about the music scene in those days; if you wanted to learn
    a song, you bought the record, sat down with the boys, tried to figure
    out the lyrics, took the record home, and ruined it by moving the
    turntable needle around while you learned the chops/chords.  You had to
    tune your guitar to the record; turntables were, of course, NOT digital, or
    built to good standards.  It was alot of work to stay current.  I can
    remember when the guitar magazines started giving out the "big boys"
    secrets on tone settings and equipment....and chords and lyrics
    appeared in the mags, too....as we get more/faster media, and
    technology, some things in life get "easier"....but kids get
    better/smarter at a younger age, too!
    
    Steve (40 with the body of a 39 year old)

RE:  Youth having it easy & Custom gauges.

The custom gauges actually $AVE$ me money, too.  ~$35-40/dozen WHATABAHGAN!
8*)
I bought a box almost 3 years ago, and I still have about 5 sets left.
Good thing I live in a dry climate. 8*)

Also, 3 out of 4 of my electrics have floys on them, and I used to bust 
a string almost every week using .009's.  Or, if they weren't breakin', they'd
just plain wear out, especially the high strings, and lose their tone even
more.  Bleck!

I also agree that .009 have tone.  Seems like it doesn't have enough 
"Ummph!" or "body".

RE:  Thin string=train to be faster.

Actually, I would think using slightly thicker strings for a little while to 
train for some while, then swtiching to .009s??  It seems like I can play 
.009's A LOT faster than I could when I used to use them all the time.  
Maybe I'm just crazy...?  Please no one answer that...  8*)

And I also agree that Les Pauls do need meatier strings on them.  Due to 
their scale length which requires less tension than Strats, .010's 
on LP's feel like .009's on Strats to me, and I can't imagine what .008's 
would be like.

Jmystr  who_used_to_rag_on_Greg_about_whimpy_strings  8*)

    
    re -1.
    
    Well that explains something, I always use 10's on my Les Paul, but I
    like 9's on my strat, I guess the answer is scale length....I never
    thought of that but it must be a big influence, the longer the length
    the more tension is needed for a given note.
    
    	While I'm here has anyone tried D'Addario Chromes?  I have a set on
    my old L5 copy, they're great for jazz chords.  They are tape wound &
    glassy smooth, cuts down fret noise & they give a really fat woody
    sound.  The smallest they do is 11's (as far as I can see) & they're
    rare, I can see that they wouldn't suit everyone but stick a set on
    your spare some time, they make a pleasant change.
    
    Cheers
    	pete.

    Sam and I were talking last weekend and he said all the .011 sets he's
    been getting have wound G's.  Anyone know of a maker that sells an .011
    set that has a plain G string?
    
    Greg

    Funny,  I had just the opposite problem.  I was looking for .011s
    with a wound G and all I could find were unwound.  GHS Boomers
    and D'Adarrio XLs have unwound Gs.  I eventually found a special
    version of the D'Addarios (with a "W" somewhere in the model#)
    that were wound.
    
    /rick

    Weird!  Sam said he got D'Addarios and they had a wound G.  Maybe he
    got the "W" version by mistake or something.
    
    Greg 

   Yeah, all the D'Addarios and Dean Markleys I've used have the wound G.
   I've traded out the wound for an unwound on occassion, but found the
   unwound strings break more easily.  Strange that you've found the opposite.
   Maybe they make different sets and the stores I frequent only carry the
   wound sets.  ('Course, this is spread among several stores in New England
   and Colorado Springs, so go figure...)

   I did some major work on my Strat over the weekend (new tortoise pickguard,
   graphite nut, re-enabled the tremelo, fret polishing, etc) and since I now
   have the trem working I decided to try some .10s (thanks for the loan,
   Greg!).  With all the changes all at once it's hard to tell what's
   responsible, but the guitar is *incredibly* bright sounding now.  Maybe
   it was due to losing that wound G?  :-)  At least I can still play on the
   10s.

   -- Sam

<   I did some major work on my Strat over the weekend (new tortoise pickguard,
<   graphite nut, re-enabled the tremelo, fret polishing, etc) and since I now
<   have the trem working I decided to try some .10s (thanks for the loan,
<   Greg!).  With all the changes all at once it's hard to tell what's
<   responsible, but the guitar is *incredibly* bright sounding now.
    
    Must be the pickguard...

    
>>>    	While I'm here has anyone tried D'Addario Chromes?  I have a set on
    
    
    	I've got 'em on my ES-175 copy.
    
    
    Jim

RE: .57

< 	Must be the pickguard...

8*)  Whataposeur!!!  8*)

Was probably the trem being abled again...?

Jmystr

    I put 10's on my Strat last night and thought I'd post my impressions
    for those of you who are thinking of doing the same. 
    
    Feels a little heavier, but I'm sure I"ll get used to it. I don't feel
    any discernable limitation in bending stings or doing a vibrato, but I
    only sometimes bend to a whole tone, rarely more. No problem. Bending
    two or more strings at a time is a little tougher and this may be a
    limitation, I dunno. But I think that's more than made up for in
    terms of tonal response and picking attack. I pick using the pick and
    my fingers, getting a sort of slap-like sound out of the fingered
    strings. The heavier strings seem to enhance this. 
    
    Oh I should mention that I play clean 50% of the time. For metal'ers,
    and racksters, you might not get so much benefit out of heavier strings.   
    For Strat owners, the 10's enhance an already great sounding versatile
    guitar. I recommend 'em.
    
    "sakman"
    
    

    I put a set of .010s on my Ibanez last weekend and have been playing it
    for about a week now.  It didn't really take any acclamation period,
    probably because a) I've been playing with .010s on the Les Paul for
    months, b) the poor thing still needs some fret work, so the action
    sucks, and c) I haven't been practicing for awhile and my "chops" are
    extremely rusty (not that they were ever all that hot, but they're
    definitely not now).

    I haven't plugged it in, so I can't comment on any difference in
    tone.

    Bottom line:  Felt good to me, I'm planning on leaving it that way.

    Greg

    Interesting phenomenon on different string guages....
    
    I played both of my axes at an all day jam session/picnic gig on
    Saturday.  As stated earlier, I have .009's on my strat and .010's on
    my Les Paul.  We played 'some' rehearsed music and I swap guitars
    depending on the sound I'm looking for (LP for Santana, Bad Co.,
    Doobies, etc./Strat for the SRV, Clapton, bluesey stuff, etc.). 
    Anyway, I did really notice that I had to 'remember' that I was playing
    with different guages "back to back" so to speak as I was changing axes
    every other song, at one point in a set (poor planning).  The Les
    Paul's .010's started to feel 'heavier' as the day wore on, and as my
    fingers got more tired (played from 2:30 to 9:00) I could notice the
    contrast in guages more....Early on, I was pushing the .009's too hard
    right after playing the Les paul for a few tunes, and the LP's .010's felt
    heavy right after using the strat for a few tunes... 
    
    If I was doing this in a band on a regular basis, I might pursue a
    setup that made both axes feel more similar in string tension....
    
    FWIW,
    
    Steve

    I went from .009s to .010s several months ago on all my guitars (they
    all have strat scale length, so everything is consistent).  Best thing
    I've done for general tone enhancement in years.  They sound better
    then the .009s whether playing clean or distored.  Also, I *swear* that
    I can alternate pick better on the heavier gauge strings.

    It took me a couple of weeks to get my hand strength (and stamina) up
    to where I could bend everything with the .010s that I did with the
    .009s. I'll never put another set of .009s on my guitars...

    I'm thinking about trying some .011s, but I'm worried that may freak
    out my whammy setup (it took quite a bit of adjustment when I went from
    .009s to .010s)....  maybe I'll just block the thing off, I never use
    it anyway.
    
    steve

Alternate picking is definitely easier for me on heavier strings.  I don't 
play electric so light gauge for me is .012, but I have much better pick 
control with mediums (.013).  Tone control is better too.  Bending and buzzing 
the strings gets a lot harder, so I still like lights for funky blues.  

Bob

I usually play mediums (.013-.056) on my acoustics (Martins) - the 
other day I tried a set of lights (.012-.052) but I took them off 
after a day. Not only because of the feel, also because of the tone.

FeliX. 

Electrics:

	Strat clone		.010
	Gibson Les Paul 	.010
	Les Paul clone		.009
	Carvin DC135		.009

Tens definitely make you work harder for the tone and the bends!

Carvin only sells .009s in their catalog.  You could always use someone
else's strings, but, to me, the fact that they only ship/sell/install .009s
for their guitars tells me what they're thinking.

I was on vacation last month out to San Diego, and I stopped in and visited 
the Carvin headquarters and met my sales rep.  (I should have asked him why 
they only ship .009s?)  He says that business was booming even before the 
good press in GP magazine.  Anyway...

Acoustics:

I usually prefer lights and extra lights.  I tried something neat recently 
with my Martin Shenandoah maple model that is only 2 years old and was 
sounding too bright with every type of string I tried.  I got tired of 
waiting for it to age!  ;7)

I bought some Ernie Ball Earthwood Silk & Steel strings to see if that 
would help the bottom end.  I didn't realize they were such a heavy gauge 
(.13 ?), so I tuned the set down to Eb to ease the tension.  The result was 
worth the effort.  I use a capo if I need E tuning or higher, but the tone 
is finally where I think it should be.

\Gary

    .13?  Wow, didn't Stevie Ray use those?
    
    Dave

>    .13?  Wow, didn't Stevie Ray use those?

    No, .012 for high E.

    --Ron

    RE: 2567.68 by LEDS::BURATI "or maybe just a change of climate"
    
    >    .13?  Wow, didn't Stevie Ray use those?
    
    >>>  No, .012 for high E.
                                              
    
    		...but remember he tuned *down* to "Eb".
    
    
    Rock on (in blue),
    		      Fred

    
    
    	I've recently changed from playing with .10's for a year (to build
    up some strength) to .9's to see how it went. I find the .9's a lot
    quicker than the 10's and I think I'm gonna stick with them for a while
    as my speed and endurance build up.......as for the change in tone,
    well I went to .9's at the same time I installed some active EMG's (81
    & SA) so the tone is different....but I guess I was expecting that :-)
    
    	J