| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 2473.1 | Bill, have you seen the bridge? :^) | AWECIM::RUSSO | | Fri Mar 13 1992 14:16 | 33 |
|
>> Dave => Tele => bank-o-pedals => Kitty Hawk M3 => Fender 2X10 cab.
Make that Fender 4X10 cab.....
Bank-o-pedals was an Ibanez sustainer/compressor => Ibanez graphic EQ
pedal. I used them both to crank the signal a bit more and add a
little extra sustain and "growl." My signal w/out those pedals is
crystal clear usually.....
Funny you should say that the KH growled more......I think a lot of
that is just the characteristics of a Telecaster; to me its not a
guitar that screams.....twangs is a different story :^)
The Kitty Hawk definitely has a lot of low-end....I had the bass set no
higher than *4* all night. The Marshall has a much clearer lead tone
than I can get with the M3.....but there's no way that a Tele could
compete with those humbuckers either....that probably had a little bit
to do with it. Still, the Marshall won hands down on the ability to
"cut through."
However, on the "Cranked Fender just over the edge of sanity....I mean
clarity" sound, the M3 faired a bit better :^)
Those Ibanez necks are *amazing*......it'd been a while since I'd
played one. Still prefer the warmth and simplicity of the Tele, just
fits my style more. Someday I'll learn how to really play it, too.
A year ago I got rid of my Roland JC amp, in search of a "grungier"
sounding amp.....I found it!!!
Dave very happy with his rig
|
| 2473.2 | Woah, reviewing my amp rigs! | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Fri Mar 13 1992 14:29 | 13 |
| Man, there's a comparison that really hits home, since Dave's Kitty M3
used to be mine. I replace it with a Marshall JCM900 like Bill's.
Like he says, there's not winner or loser of those two amps, they both
sound great! I think the Marshall fits my playing style and what I'm
doing better then the Kitty did, but I missed that amp terribly when I
got rid of it.
BTW, I think a 4x10 cab is a very good complement to the M3, which is
very bass heavy. Seems like it would also be a good complement for a
Tele, which can get thin and trebly sounding too.
Greg
|
| 2473.3 | | AWECIM::RUSSO | | Fri Mar 13 1992 14:41 | 9 |
|
>Man, there's a comparison that really hits home, since Dave's Kitty M3
>used to be mine. I replace it with a Marshall JCM900 like Bill's.
Not to mention that Bill was playing a guitar almost the same as the
one that used to be mine that you now own! Except Bill's is *REALLY*
purple!! :^)
Dave
|
| 2473.4 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | VIII days to Coaster Season! | Fri Mar 13 1992 14:57 | 5 |
| When I read Bill's review of the Tele sound in .0, I said to myself
"Self, there must have been a compressor on that Tele to make it sing
and sound so full"
Floor thangs = compressor/limiter and graphic EQ ... nuff said!
|
| 2473.5 | Amazing how gear gets around this net... | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Fri Mar 13 1992 15:17 | 3 |
| But they played the Tele through Bill's Marshall with no fx too, right?
Greg
|
| 2473.6 | ooops | STAR::SALKEWICZ | It missed... therefore, I am | Fri Mar 13 1992 16:01 | 6 |
| no,.. we didn't try the Tele through the Marshall,..
sh*t,.. we should have :-/
/Bill
|
| 2473.7 | | FDCV09::GOODWIN | | Fri Mar 13 1992 16:12 | 12 |
| I would have expected the jcm900 to blow a KH M3 away... if it was
really only a tie, then I would also expect a KH M1 to blow the JCM900
away, as the M1's are a much higher gain animal than the M3's.
Are the jcm900's a dual-mode amp like the M3? I though they offered
at least three different sounds (i.e. clean/crunch/lead).
Bill- I know we never did a tone-test, but when we jammed, my tone
was coming from a Gibson SG => Quadraverb+ (via loop) => KH M1 =>
Fender 2x12 (w/ celestions). How did that compare with your new rig?
Steve
|
| 2473.8 | M1 blow JCM900 away? Not in my book. | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Fri Mar 13 1992 16:38 | 26 |
| Steve,
I think what they were saying is that both amps are both good in their
own respect, and good at different things. At least that was my
opinion of those two amps.
The JCM900 they demoed with is a Dual Reverb model, which has two
channels. I'm not aware of any Marshall head with three channels.
Quite honestly, I don't think a Kitty M1 has much over an M3 tone wise.
Yeah, it's got a high gain channel and you can access four sounds using
the footswitch, and that gives it some added versatility. I've heard
an M1 and wasn't all that impressed. The high gain channel sounded
very compressed and Boogie-esque and I don't really care for that sound
very much. I actually liked my old M3 better...
Sure, it kind of goes without saying that the JCM900 rips the M3 to
shreds in terms of gain, but it sounded to me like they were simply
comparing overall tonal quality and usability.
Re: Teles & Marshalls
BTW, occasional noter Joe Minville runs a Tele through a Marshall
JCM800 and he told me he loves the tone!
Greg
|
| 2473.9 | how equip makes it's way around this conf! | CAVLRY::BUCK | VIII days to Coaster Season! | Fri Mar 13 1992 17:00 | 5 |
| I can attest that Joe Minville's Tele thru a JCM 800 2205 is quoite the
fierce tone. Those 2205's ROOL!
Buck, citing the 2205 in question is his ex amp, and wishes he never
sold it!! 8^(
|
| 2473.10 | rat hole alert!!! | FDCV09::GOODWIN | | Sat Mar 14 1992 08:30 | 29 |
| re: .8
Greg,
I'd have to disagree- the rhythm player in my band uses an M3, and I
use an M1, and the M1 unequivically wins by a substantial margin in
all categories, particularly tone (IMHO).
I can't help but wonder if some of the blow-out kittys had problems
that affected their sound/tone. A couple of themes that have re-
emerged repeatedly about kitties is that they lack high-end, have
too much bass, and are over compressed ala boogie. I can say without
a doubt that my M1's have plenty of highs (more than I can use, and
the lead modes are very 'open' sounding, not compressed like boogies.
I was on the verge of shelling out $1500 for a boogie when I found my
first M1 for $500, so I know what you mean about the boogies being over
compressed... I don't care for that sound either.
But getting back to the base note concept, to do a really objective
tone test of any two (or group) of amps, one would have to use the
same guitar, same cables, same speakers, and preferably _no_ effects.
That's the only way you could really get a true comparison of what
impact the amps have on the overall sound.
My compliments to Soko for starting what could be a great rat-hole
topic... we haven't had one of these in a long time !! 8^)
Steve
|
| 2473.11 | simple math | FREEBE::REAUME | RACKer-not a STACKer | Mon Mar 16 1992 07:25 | 16 |
|
IMHO the KH equation is:
M1 > M5 > M3
I still love my M1's to death and can't sem to get away from the
M5's vintage sound either. If I was in a small R & B band I'd use the M5
and my Boss CH-1 Super Chorus. The illuminated rack would just seem out
of place in a small R & B format. Although I just got done doing my
"Texas Blues" patch in the ACCESS.
If I did a BIG, BIG rock gig, it's the M1 stack with the MIDI-rack
on the side for effects (and a backup).
-B()()M-
|
| 2473.12 | M1 does it all | FRETZ::HEISER | maranatha | Mon Mar 16 1992 09:21 | 15 |
| > the footswitch, and that gives it some added versatility. I've heard
> an M1 and wasn't all that impressed. The high gain channel sounded
> very compressed and Boogie-esque and I don't really care for that sound
> very much. I actually liked my old M3 better...
Yeah but the M1 you heard had preamp tube problems at the time.
I don't know about the M3 (does it have a presence knob?), but when I
want a metal-shredmaster-lead-tone on my M1, I put the Presence and
Gain on 10. It would do any Marshall proud! ;-)
I've been satisfied with my M1 for a looonngg time. I wouldn't mind a
4500 to switch to once in a while, but the M1 is a keeper.
Mike
|
| 2473.13 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Mon Mar 16 1992 09:24 | 5 |
| -1
With all due respect to Boom's M1 stack I played thru, it was great,.
but it really didn't sound like a Marshall to my ears, and I tried
all my fav settings!
|
| 2473.14 | | FREEBE::REAUME | RACKer-not a STACKer | Mon Mar 16 1992 09:29 | 7 |
|
-1
--better.....
ooooops. B-}. -B-
|
| 2473.15 | MARSHALL RULES!!! | CSC32::THOMAS | Traveling is better than arriving. | Mon Mar 16 1992 09:34 | 17 |
| JC ain't gonna like this...
Friday night I had a chance to hear the Coop and his band HARDBALL.
Everybody played pretty well but it seemed that Coop was having a few
problems with his RACK of DOOM. The other guitar player was sounding
pretty good and making Coop sound kinda thin... That is until the third
set when Coop turned on his
MARSHALL
and then all of a sudden, it was
the other guitar player that was sounding kinda thin while Coop blasted
away with really nice tone. Now I know Coop is gonna say that it was
the problems with the rack that was responsible. All I gotta say to
that is; when the RACK is back, lets A/B them again. I get to be the
judge though.
Lowell
|
| 2473.16 | Stack, don't rack! | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Mon Mar 16 1992 09:46 | 3 |
| I herd from Jesse Hernandes (a non-guitarist) that Coop's Marshall
had an ultra-rippin tone as well...blew doors on the MP-1 (Mosquito
Preamp - 1).
|
| 2473.17 | suit my needs/wants just fine | FRETZ::HEISER | maranatha | Mon Mar 16 1992 10:23 | 11 |
| If I had my way, I'd have the best of both worlds:
Rack'o'Doom for effects only + {insert fav amp head} + Marshall 1960B
I still have visions of using my M1 as a head + a 4500 sitting on top
of a Marshall 4x12 (the new stereo models so I can dedicate a head to
each channel) plus a 4 space rack with some of my fav processors.
Then a footswitch to switch between heads or both at the same time.
Mike
|
| 2473.18 | Coop....same guy? | NAVY5::SDANDREA | What, me worry? | Mon Mar 16 1992 10:27 | 11 |
| The last few remind me of a similar happening....I used to play in a
band with a guy named Coop. He had a Rack-O-Doom, and all I had was a
KH M3 stacked on a Peavey 4 X 12. I played a Les Paul Deluxe thru a
tube screamer, and had a footswitch to turn on the KH overdrive. This
guy Coop ended up buying a KH M3......interesting! Wonder if it's the
same guy?? He even was quoted to say (once) "Steve, how can I get that
tone"........
8^)
Bulldawg (AKA "steve, the Coop harasser)
|
| 2473.19 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Mon Mar 16 1992 10:55 | 4 |
| Of course it was cutting thru - I had a 50wt FULL stack cranked FULL BLAST !
:)
jc (Who'll start up a new discussion on Friday nights events)
|
| 2473.20 | Marshall Rules | CSC32::THOMAS | Traveling is better than arriving. | Mon Mar 16 1992 11:15 | 6 |
| Didn't Tom (the other guitarist) have a MOSVALVE that was cranking out
120 watts.. and didn't you say that you were having problems with
volume on stage??
Lowell
|
| 2473.21 | | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Hey you're pretty good - NOT ! | Mon Mar 16 1992 11:23 | 6 |
| I would wager that using similar speaker cabs, that the Marshall would
devour the Mosvalve concerning volume. In my last band, I was on stage
with a VTM-60 (Peavey) using the exact same cabs, and it made my
Mosvalve hustle.
Jerry
|
| 2473.22 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Mon Mar 16 1992 13:02 | 74 |
| Well, maybe this *is* a reasonable place to discuss this.
RE: Lowell
Actually the MOSvalve has 80wts.
Friday night wasn't such a good night...
All week I'd been struggling with a major "Zzzzzzzz" coming from my rig.
After our first set Friday night I decided I'd bring down the programmed
masters in the Mp1 to try to reduce the buzz via my noise gate. Bad idea...
I'd be in edit mode with a bunch of people asking what I was doin'... Kinda
lost track and hosed a couple of my fave presets. Opppss... Played another
set...
Decided I'd best use my backup (a 2550 Marshall head) - So I reconfigured.
I was still getting a major buzz from the Marshall, but I finished the night
with it: The Marshall head, to me, was barely acceptable: No sustain, no
hi-gain-induced-squeely-harmonics - I was BUMMIN' ! I will say though, that
it got me thru. But I'm very dependent on a real hi-gain signal, lots of
compression, high-end response etc...etc... The worst of it was I was so
preoccupied with my equipment problems, it was effecting my playing, which
in turn made even MORE upset! Ack! Oh, and yes it 'cut thru' the mix
alright. I had the Marshall up on full volume (as I'd mentioned previously),
and running thru (2)4x12s. It was takin' my head off on stage.
Anyway, I took the rack home and pulled my Mp1 backups, and restored my
patches. No buzz at the house at all - everything worked. I decided
that my noise had to be the lights we were using. I also decided I needed
a backup in my *rack*. :)
We'd used all our lights, plus rented some PAR64's and a rack of dimmer packs
from our favorite light dood. All in all, we had (6) 1000watt/channel -
12 channel dimmer packs in use... That plus a 45+ lights and all the wires
and cables hanging from lighting bars...
Bad idea. Ever stand in front of your dining room light dimmer switch and
play with the fader ??
Anyway, I was using (3) 4x12's - two stacked, and one half-high. The rack was
on the half-high right next to the dimmers with the power distribution snake
running up the wall (a bundle of 110 wires about 8" in diameter).
I went down early Saturday and switched the speaker stacks around to get the
rack away from the dimmers. That was what it took. The buzz was still there,
but not nearly as bad... It was actually the guitar pickups that would pick
up the noise; just compounded by the proximty of the rack to the dimmers/snake.
Also, as a side-note, for future backup purposes, I snarfed a 9004 Preamp that
was on sale cheap. Nice little unit !!
So, RE: Tone wars
To each his own. A 'guitar - cord - Marshall' just doesn't work for me...
Especially when my mind is all fouled up on top of that. I love that Marshall
when I'm supposed to be playing thru it... It's got two really cool tones
that really hump ! Unfortunately for me, searing hi-end, hi-harmonic laden
distortion, compression etc... isn't one of the Marshalls high-spots.
If I were playing the Marshall and my strat in a blues band, I'd be in tone
heaven, but doin' Lynch Mob covers I gotta have my rack. Ig-snay on the
Arshall-May.
Also, while a lot of people seemed to like the tone I got with the Marshall
Friday night, I've had at least that many folks drop in here this morning
asking about my tone Saturday night too. One particular dood (Mike Ferris)
raved about it, and said I could quote him as saying "You had the sound that
so many guys with Marshalls try to get".
So, to summarize - To each his own I guess. What works for me probably won't
work for y'all. But y'all don't have to play thru my rig in front of people-
I do. :)
jc
|
| 2473.23 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Mon Mar 16 1992 13:03 | 20 |
| Similarly...
A local boston band, Boa, has two great guitarist...both are mgr's for
EU Wurly's in Framingfart and Woosta respectively. Now, the Woosta
dude plays eitehr a Les Paul or a Custom Ibanez thru a 50wt Super Lead
top, which is modded with a Soldano preamp retrofit, and a master
volume. EVERYONE used to compliment this guy on his roolin tone!!
Now, the Framingfart dude plays a custom ESP thru an MP-1, plugged into
the output stage of a JCM 900 high gain mk III. No one ever
complimented him on his sound, cuz he was always drowened out by the
other dude. Seriously it may have been a good sound, but I could never
tell?!
Well, I saw this band a couple of weeks ago and guess what?! The MP-1
is GONE, and the farmingfart dude was playing stright thru the JCM 900
top. And, surprisingly enough, he had a better tone than the other
dude with the hot rod Marshall!! He's very happy now becuase now he is
getting compliments. And everyone in Boa lived happily ever after.
As for the MP-1? It was sold to some young rack puke...
|
| 2473.24 | call me curious | FRETZ::HEISER | maranatha | Mon Mar 16 1992 13:20 | 4 |
| Coop, what does your soundman think of your MP-1's sound and ability to
cut thru the mix? Afterall, we know he wouldn't lie to ya ;-)
Mike
|
| 2473.25 | curious to know | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Mon Mar 16 1992 13:21 | 2 |
| Yeah, what was the sound man's comments on the MP-1 vs. Marshall
scenario??
|
| 2473.26 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Mon Mar 16 1992 13:28 | 10 |
| He likes both. He likes the Marshall sound and he likes the sounds
AND diversity of the Mp1. He hates dimmer-pack induced hum. :)
FWIW - Jeff is an cool soundman - a little lacking in the experience
department, but he has his feces all lined up. He's organized and
works hard for us. My only feedback to him (ever) is he's a little
afraid to rail the volumes, and he tends to listen with his meters more
than his ears sometimes.
jc
|
| 2473.27 | go for it Greg! ;-) | FRETZ::HEISER | maranatha | Mon Mar 16 1992 14:20 | 1 |
|
|
| 2473.28 | | FREEBE::REAUME | RACKer-not a STACKer | Mon Mar 16 1992 14:21 | 17 |
|
May my presets that I've worked so hard on the last few days never
get bonked. I'd be bummin' cause now that I've put in my time I'm real
happy with the ACCESS/Intellifex/SP-1000 arrangement. Maybe it's good
that I wasn't floored right away because now I know what the ACCESS is
capable of. Remember - I had knobs on my other preamps that are capable
of four modes and *only* two EQs. No more K-nobs. Gotta make those
LED ladders do the right steps to get the right sound. The range of
the EQ is BIG, so it is easier to not get what your after by being
somewhere you don't want to be. (I don't know if *I* understand what I
just said?) Anyway - I bet that Cooper could've helped me set it
up quicker since he's a speedy, experienced MP-1 programmer.
All's well. And my REXX 1602/601 is a very small and inconspicuous
backup unit always at the ready to rock.
-B()()M-
|
| 2473.29 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Mon Mar 16 1992 14:24 | 5 |
| Yo BooM - I gotta have a crack at an Access one day - they sound way-cool!!
Also, I tried a PV 5150 this weekend. Pretty neet !
jc
|
| 2473.30 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Mon Mar 16 1992 14:31 | 3 |
| >Also, I tried a PV 5150 this weekend. Pretty neet !
Dats all ya gonna say??
|
| 2473.31 | | FREEBE::REAUME | ACCESS the Tone Zone | Mon Mar 16 1992 14:44 | 6 |
|
----not enough LED's.
-B()()M-
|
| 2473.32 | My take... | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Mon Mar 16 1992 14:45 | 19 |
| > -< go for it Greg! ;-) >-
Go for what, instigator?
I thought Coop's Marshall had a totally ROOLIN tone Friday night. It
sounded a lot better then the rack rig. Like Lowell said, Tom's sound
from his GP-16/MosValve rig was making the Mp-1 rig sound really thin,
but the Marshall made Tom's rig sound wimpy in comparison.
It was fat, punchy, cut through the mix, but didn't dominate it.
Everything I like about a good hard rock guitar sound!
Naturally Coop hated it...
Greg
|
| 2473.33 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Mon Mar 16 1992 15:06 | 23 |
| > It was fat, punchy, cut through the mix, but didn't dominate it.
> Everything I like about a good hard rock guitar sound!
Naturally it was all that - It was full blast! :) My ears are still flopped
over backwards from standing in front of it. I was totally out of the mix,
according to 'sound_man_jeff' Anything in the PA mains was bled thru my vocal
mike ! It was crankin' REALLY loud !!
Also, FWIW - Is there not a difference between metal and hard rock ??
> Naturally Coop hated it...
Yeah, we gotta face facts here - you're tastes and my tastes are exactly
180 out of phase. I like NO mids, you like 'em cranked. I like processed
gear, you like cords and amps. You like to stick out in the mix, I like to
contribute to it. (Hmm, didn't come out quite right). Anyway, about the
only thing we DO agree on is that Ibanez ROOL and Rice is tres-cool !
Chances are dood we'll never come to an impasse. Perhaps thats why we get
along ?? :)
jc (Who'll stick with his rack)
|
| 2473.34 | ;-) | FRETZ::HEISER | maranatha | Mon Mar 16 1992 15:16 | 3 |
| > Go for what, instigator?
moi?!
|
| 2473.35 | X-posted from HEAVY_METAL... | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Tue Mar 17 1992 09:31 | 33 |
|
<<< LANDO::ADMIND:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HEAVY_METAL.NOTE;1 >>>
-< HEAVY_METAL >-
================================================================================
Note 666.241 HardBall 241 of 249
CYNO::FERRIS "Guaranteed to blow your head apart" 24 lines 16-MAR-1992 18:13
-< My Review >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I agree Kat! Its been some time now since I heard HARDBALL. I have to
say I was impressed by how much you guys improved since the last time I
saw you. The overall sound quality was improved also. I thought that
the band played a good selection of tunes that kept the overall crowd
happy, and still catering to the HM people at the same time.
I thought your new drummer was a good move for the band. Much more
dynamic than the last guy you had.
The thing that really stood out to me was the sound that Coop was
getting. Both guitarists in the band play Marshall, which is my fav to
hear. But, the sound that Coop was getting was much fuller and richer
sounding that the other guitarist (can't remember his name). I don't
mean to say he sounded bad, its just that his tone was kinda weak in
comparison to the sound of your set up. Thats why I was asking you if
you had a tube Marshall, when you were explaining your set up to me, I
didn't know the rack set up was really being used.
My opinion, if both you guys could have the sound you were getting
last Saturday when I heard you, WOW, you'd be puttin some hair on the
wall if you know what I mean! I really enjoyed hearing you guys and
will make a point to come out again. A band you must check out in the
Springs area. Well done Coop! Keep it up!
mike
|
| 2473.36 | | CSC32::THOMAS | Traveling is better than arriving. | Tue Mar 17 1992 10:00 | 8 |
| Coop,
Sounds like everybody really liked the Marshall
except YOU...
Lowell
|
| 2473.37 | | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Hey you're pretty good - NOT ! | Tue Mar 17 1992 10:11 | 3 |
| Everyone knows how stupid your average bar crowd is ... 8^)
Jerry
|
| 2473.38 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Tue Mar 17 1992 10:16 | 10 |
| Well, Mike is a drummer with many years of experience...and a budding
guitarist. You'll note that he didn't realize I was using my rack until
I pointed it out to him.
> when you were explaining your set up to me, I
> didn't know the rack set up was really being used.
The point of the cross-post was that not *everyone* thinks my tone is shit.
jc
|
| 2473.39 | I want Coop's tone now dammit! :-) | STAR::SALKEWICZ | It missed... therefore, I am | Tue Mar 17 1992 13:49 | 52 |
| Well beside the fact that Coops tone is Sh*t ... :-) :-)
I can't believe what a debate has been started here... great stuff
and interesting too ,.. keep it up doodz,.. but,.,. honestly,
I think we should all give Coop a break about now...
Anyway,,. I was out sick yesterday and missed out on a lot
of this conversation, .. but in the "catching up" department
re Steve Goodwin
For those of you that may not know,.. Steve and I were
jamming together in a band not too long ago. ,... And "Soko"
pronounced (sock-oe) is one of my many nick names...
Anyway,. Steve,.. you had the only rig with tone when
we were playing together and I was using the Peavey. Your KH blew that
Peavey so far into the woods that,.. well,.. ther was really no
contest. In fact, this was part of what got me shopping for the
Marshall. Unfortunately,. that line up broke up before I scored
the new amp.... I'd like to get together for a comparison with the new
rig sometime.
I hesitate to compare the tone of your rig "from memory" to my
current rig. And as someone said,.. should really use all the same
external equipment (guitars, peramps etc etc.) to the amp to do
a real apples to appes comparison. Dave and my "externals" were about
as far apart as night and day,. so we didn't do a true amp to amp
comparison. But,.. I do feel it is safe to say that the Marshall amp
does have more "deliverable" gain. All I mean by deliverable is that
it still cuts through. The KH has decent gain,.. maybe even as much
as the Marshall,.. but it gets muddied up by the ever-present bass.
It just didn't seem to cut through with the same fully rounded
clarity of tone that the Marshall does in its high gain settings.
However,..we declared the amps an "overall tie",.. meaning the gain
was only one factor in an array of factors. We also comapred low
gain tonality,.. and in low gain (clean, bell tone style) mode,
Dave was getting better tone out of the M3. He had the bell tones
that were just so nice,.. where mine were only "pretty good". So in
that department,.. the KH came out on top,.. although I still
think the Tele and the extra pedals he had were contributing to his
success in this area.
Anyway,.. I didn't realize what fun we would have with this topic.
Glad to see everyone enjoying themselves,..
/Bill_aka_Soko_aka_
Catlydian...
PS Coop,.. smile dood ! :-)
|
| 2473.40 | \ | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Tue Mar 17 1992 13:57 | 7 |
| Re: Cat-o-lydian-nine-tails...
>Unfortunately,. that line up broke up before I scored
>the new amp.... I'd like to get together for a comparison with the new
>rig sometime.
and the new chops! 8^)
|
| 2473.41 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Tue Mar 17 1992 14:01 | 16 |
| Yeah, the bottom line is what works for you... Not if you endorse
someones head OR a line of rack-mounted-gear OR both...
I still submit that your 'tone' comes more from your fingers than
your rig...But if you find something that will enhance... GO FOR IT!
I promise you that if you wanna play BB King and Muddy Waters material,
you won't be happy with a rack_from_hell... getcha a Twin...
Besides all that - it's important what YOU think of your tone,
not what someone else thinks. Should I care if everyone thinks my tone
is better thru a Marshall or a rack ?? <Insert Homey The Clown Voice>
"I don't think so - Homey don play dat!"
jc
|
| 2473.42 | Umm... | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Tue Mar 17 1992 14:52 | 12 |
| >Well, Mike is a drummer with many years of experience...and a budding
>guitarist. You'll note that he didn't realize I was using my rack until
>I pointed it out to him.
Umm...no offense or anything man, but also remember that Mike has
severe hearing damage and has to wear very thick custom molded earplugs
to be able to go see a band...
Not saying his opinion isn't valid, just that it might be slightly
tainted.
Greg
|
| 2473.43 | tone comparison time! | GOOROO::CLARK | I'm too sexy for my job | Wed Mar 18 1992 08:38 | 11 |
| so, all this disussion has me curious. Is anyone up for a
'tone-a-thon' wherein everyone could get together with their
stuff and we could HEAR all these subtle tonal differences?
I don't the particulars, like how we're going to keep everybody
from playing at the same time, but I bet we could work something
out.
yay/nay?
- Dave
|
| 2473.44 | | DECWIN::KMCDONOUGH | Set Kids/Nosick | Wed Mar 18 1992 09:59 | 6 |
|
I'd be interested. Maybe a Northboro F+G event?
Kevin
|
| 2473.46 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Wed Mar 18 1992 10:19 | 3 |
| I'd love too... Wish I lived in Massachusetts though...
:(
|
| 2473.47 | | FDCV09::GOODWIN | | Wed Mar 18 1992 10:20 | 11 |
| re: last couple
I'd be up for it... I'd be curious to hear how the JCM900's
stack up (no pun intended), and I could bring the KH M1 entry.
Depending on how much interest there is, it could range from
a few folks getting together in someones basement to a much
larger organized event. We would probably need someone to
to organize and coordinate...
/steve
|
| 2473.49 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Wed Mar 18 1992 11:26 | 2 |
| I'll bring the JCM 900 MK III and the 5150!
|
| 2473.50 | | RGB::ROST | The Legend Lives On: Jah Rostafari | Wed Mar 18 1992 11:35 | 3 |
| I'll rent the tow truck if someone wants to bring a Twin....
Brian
|
| 2473.51 | the voice of the people has spoken | GOOROO::CLARK | I'm too sexy for my job | Wed Mar 18 1992 11:35 | 8 |
| Okay, sounds like there is a lot of interest in this. Why don't
you send me EMAIL if you're interested (and geographically
contiguous); depending on how many people respond we'll try
to figure out how do pull this off. I don't think the F&G was
overly happy with our last outing there about 3 years ago; the
extreme volume drove away all their regular customers :-)
- Dave
|
| 2473.52 | | GIAMEM::RATTEY | | Wed Mar 18 1992 11:40 | 6 |
|
I'd be interested.....don't know if I should I bring my
KH M3 or the blackface Super Reverb....maybe I'll bring both...
Ray.
|
| 2473.53 | | DECWIN::KMCDONOUGH | Set Kids/Nosick | Wed Mar 18 1992 11:47 | 8 |
|
If the dates work out, I'll bring a 50-watt JCM900 Dual-Reverb head
with Marshall 2-12 cab.
Kevin
|
| 2473.55 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Wed Mar 18 1992 12:14 | 2 |
| If this happens, I'll bring the GUITAR Noters Photo Album (which I
still have, btw).
|
| 2473.56 | | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Wed Mar 18 1992 12:20 | 3 |
| Not taking the REXX, Buck?
Greg (who would *love* to be involved, but lives in CO)
|
| 2473.57 | first pass at organization ... | GOOROO::CLARK | Running on Faith | Wed Mar 18 1992 12:33 | 30 |
| okay, thanks for the enthusiastic response so far!
here's a rough idea at what I think would work:
1. We need to have some RULES!
2. this is not a free-form jam; what we're trying to do is
benchmark (how's that for a how buzzword?) the tones of
different amps and decide who's 'best-in-class'. Clearly,
different amps are better for different purposes. So we
need to test amps under different circumstances. I propose
we get a place (like the F&G, we can always lie to them about
out true intent :-) ) and do something like:
have a 'house' band which would consist of rhythm guitar (plus
vocals?), bass, and drums. Then have maybe 3 people at a time
get up and play, taking turns doing leads. That way people could
A/B different rigs without everybody playing at the same time.
Also, it might be nice to breakthe night down into different
sections; e.g. drag out the Twins for some blues tunes, then
do Metal, country, rock, and jazz. That way we could see how
Marshalls rule for metal but M3's rule for that just over-the-
edge blues tone. (Could also see who's a hot country or metal
or jazz player.)
I'd like to keep it informal but not chaotic. Like a Twin turned
up to 8 1/2 :-)
how does that sound? - Dave
|
| 2473.58 | Otherwise, It's Just Another Jam | RGB::ROST | The Legend Lives On: Jah Rostafari | Wed Mar 18 1992 12:44 | 11 |
| Re: .57
Dave, the thing you left out is that if people really want to make
comparisons, you need some A/B boxes, so say one guy gets up and plays
and the amps can be kicked in and out and compared in real time. That
way there's no question what part of the sound is the amp as opposed to
the contribution of the axe and player. I'd think that one lead player
at a time is the way to go. And if the idea is to check out amps, why
bother with a singer?
Brian
|
| 2473.59 | | DECWIN::KMCDONOUGH | Set Kids/Nosick | Wed Mar 18 1992 12:49 | 19 |
|
As another approach, how about if everybody demos their particular rig
in several styles, one at a time. Fer instance, Larry could demo the
clean/blues/high-gain sounds of his Marshall combo, while the rest of
of just listened. Then the next person would demo their rig.
This would eliminate the jam aspect (until the end, of course!) and
keep the volume down.
Kind of like a Guitar Player amp shootout.
Thoughts?
Kevin
|
| 2473.60 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Wed Mar 18 1992 12:52 | 1 |
| I'd like to see (hear) this more as a demo thing than a jam...
|
| 2473.62 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Wed Mar 18 1992 13:13 | 11 |
| RE: Singer
I have to quote my favorite drummer:
"Vocals are just filler between guitar solos"
Man, I'm jealous that no one will show with an Mp1 (=Marshall Pouncer)...
:)
I *wanna* come !!
jc
|
| 2473.63 | ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Wed Mar 18 1992 13:16 | 6 |
| -1
You got it wrong, bucko...
MP = Mosquito Preamp!
|
| 2473.64 | wahhhhh, I wanna come! | NAVY5::SDANDREA | What, me worry? | Wed Mar 18 1992 13:19 | 10 |
| * I'll just bring my Les Paul......it won't matter WHICH amp I use...8^)
(Yes, that Gibson tone...)
* If ALL of you guys can wait and accomodate MY schedule, I'll be in
Boston (Bahston) the week of May 11--15. I'd LOVE to meet and jam
with yous guys.
Steve (who's sorry he's gonna miss this one....)
|
| 2473.65 | | PHAROS::SAKELARIS | | Wed Mar 18 1992 13:23 | 5 |
| I too prefer the demo approach, or whatever so long as there's more
organzation than chaos. Count me in on this. I'll bring "the
Twin". It'd be good to put faces to names.
"sakman"
|
| 2473.66 | dreamin.... | NAVY5::SDANDREA | What, me worry? | Wed Mar 18 1992 13:40 | 7 |
| Sak,
I'd LOVE to hear my LP thru "The Twin"....no FX, just plug 'er in and
turn it up! I saw a Toy Caldwell (Of Marshall Tucker Band) concert.
He used an ES335 thru a "The Twin"......beautiful tone!
Steve (sigh)
|
| 2473.67 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Wed Mar 18 1992 13:42 | 5 |
| No Steve,
You poor, misdirected man...you want to hear your LP thru the 5150.
Here, plug in, and lemme dial up my LEAD FROM HELL setting... ];^>
|
| 2473.68 | | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Wed Mar 18 1992 15:08 | 8 |
| I think you probably want to hear different amps with the same person
playing them. Another good demo type test would be showing how the amp
sounded with various types of guitars (and pickups).
It's also my opinion that it's impossible to generate a viable test of
an amp without hearing it in a band context.
Greg (bummin 'cause he can't come check it out)
|
| 2473.70 | we could _structure_ it.. | FDCV09::GOODWIN | | Wed Mar 18 1992 15:26 | 20 |
| We could make it a formal process with a panel of judges. There
could be an official scoring form listing the various categories
of characteristics to be compared. If necessary, different types
of performance criteria could be weighted any way the judges feel
would be appropriate. Then each amp could be rated and scored
in each category, and an overall score established. The results
could be tallied by the judges and announced or published in the
notes file.
We probabaly don't need multiples of the same type of amp (i.e.
a dozen Marshalls) unless there is a fair representation of
different models (i.e. plexi, super lead, jcm800, jcm900, etc...)
Perhaps if we choose a panel, they could even select which amps
will compete in the tone test.
Another aspect which may be more difficult to organize is rules
around effects used, speaker configurations, etc.. because these
all will have a significant impact on the resulting sound. Are
we trying to compare just the amps, or the overall sound of each
different rig?
|
| 2473.71 | | CSC32::THOMAS | Traveling is better than arriving. | Wed Mar 18 1992 16:39 | 8 |
| I suppose that someone could record the evening and we could make our
own decision...
I think that testing one variable at a time would be the best way to
do the test. In otherwords, using the same speakers for the different
amps as well as the same front end equipment and guitarist.
Lowell
|
| 2473.72 | count me in | VIKING::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Wed Mar 18 1992 20:59 | 27 |
| I'd be up for it too. "The Twin" could use a good workout to blow
the dust off the speakers. I have a Morley panning pedal, which
has two outputs and allows you to pan quickly from one amp to
another. This could be handy for doing A/B testing between
differant amps.
Of course, I predict that after a couple of rounds of drinks, this
"Amp contest" will turn into another jam, which would be fine with
me as long as it doesn't turn into another "volume jam".
If we have a hall for an evening (~4 hours) why not do the amp
comparisons early in the evening (while we're all sober), and
then have small groups of people jam together for like 3-4 tunes
per group. There should be no more than 2-3 guitarists in a single
group, otherwise people start competing to be heard.
If you guys really want to hear great tone, I should have my buddy
Dennis come with his Vox AC30 and colorsound fuzztone. This rig get's
the most vicious tone I've ever heard, period. I've considered selling
my Twin and buy one of these, but these amps can be troublesome. His
other AC30 has been in the shop for the last 3 months, after the last
smoke show. Joe Minville can testify to the great tone these amps get
after hearing Dennis at Club 77.
Mark
|
| 2473.73 | howcum they never do these things out here? | EZ2GET::STEWART | the leper with the most fingers | Wed Mar 18 1992 23:54 | 5 |
|
JC, House_unit....road trip?
|
| 2473.74 | wait for the tone... | FREEBE::REAUME | ACCESS the Tone Zone | Thu Mar 19 1992 07:02 | 9 |
| Hmmmm - it's only ~300 miles for moi-
When the time/place is set I'll see what I can do! By that time I
should have the new gig rig fine tuned. Obviously the ACCESS rack would
make the trip, but maybe I should also bring the REXX 610s or 1602/601
I'd bring a KH but I think there's already gonna be one represented.
Sounds cool to me-
-B()()M-
|
| 2473.75 | tongue in cheek..... | NAVY5::SDANDREA | What, me worry? | Thu Mar 19 1992 07:41 | 18 |
| I know, why don't you guys HIRE a panel of professional judges,,,one
from each major amp manufacturer. This could be a kind of "Tone
Olympics"...eh? You could have opening ceremonies, lots of colorful
costumes, you could make a Tone Olympics Flame by torching one of
Coops' guitars. There could be TV coverage, with stupid commentators
giving stupid opinions on yer Tone demos. You could have your parents
there to be interviewed, and they could even show stupid home movies on
the sidebars....like when you slammed your first guitar into your
birthday cake, and screamed "Metallica ROOOLZ!" on your second
birthday. Let's see, what else....oh yeah, you could have events too.
Like....uh, guitar floor exercise.....the judges could not only judge
tone, but your backflip style while soloing. Thsi has defenite
possibilities.....any other ideas?
Or, you could just get together and have fun........nahhhhh, that would
be too easy....8^)
Steev
|
| 2473.76 | | DECWIN::KMCDONOUGH | Set Kids/Nosick | Thu Mar 19 1992 09:02 | 20 |
|
I'd be in favor of everyone doing a demo of their own rig, for several
reasons:
1. We know our own gear and what it will do.
2. We picked our amp/speakers for how they sound as a whole; using a
reference cab might require big-time eq changes.
3. It keeps a demo simple.
Of course, doing a demo in front of a bunch of other players could be a
little intimidating. I'd prefer to demo my stuff without bass/drums,
just to keep the emphasis on the tone and not my chops.
Just MHO, natch.
Kevin
|
| 2473.77 | my second or third $.02 | GOOROO::CLARK | Running on Faith | Thu Mar 19 1992 09:07 | 11 |
| I agree with Kevin, everybody demos their own rig. And I agree
with (?) that getting judges is overorganizing this a bit.
What about breaking it down into different sections then having
WWF-style battles with 2 guitarists and a rhythm section?
"In this corner, with a pukey Ibanez and Marshall Stack, is
Bill Buckley ... In this corner, with a maple-neck Tele and
Kitty Hawk M3, is Dave Russo"
- Dave
|
| 2473.78 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Thu Mar 19 1992 09:13 | 1 |
| Coop has my "pukey" Ibanez now!!
|
| 2473.79 | this would be fun.... | NAVY5::SDANDREA | What, me worry? | Thu Mar 19 1992 09:16 | 5 |
| An interesting demo would be to let two or three different players play
the same axe, thru the same rig, with the same tone settings, and
listen for the difference in tone!
Steev
|
| 2473.80 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We heard the angels of madness | Thu Mar 19 1992 09:31 | 1 |
| This sounds like a job for the Brotherhood of Tone!
|
| 2473.81 | | FDCV09::GOODWIN | | Thu Mar 19 1992 10:41 | 10 |
| Judges certainly aren't a necessity. We can make this into anything we
want it to be... I only suggested some formal structure because I'd hate
to see it turn into a free-for-all volume wars type of thing where we
couldn't really focus on the tone.
re: B()()M, if you're thinking of making the trip and have the inclination
to bring the 100W M1 stack, I'd be more than happy to defer the KH M1 slot
to you...I could always enter the SOHO/MosValve rack instead of the 60W M1.
/steve
|
| 2473.82 | WHy Bother,. we already know Marshall is "best" :-) :-) | STAR::SALKEWICZ | It missed... therefore, I am | Thu Mar 19 1992 16:53 | 24 |
| Wow,.. looky here what I started! :-0
I'd definitely be into participating/providing my rig for comparison
(although its now identical to Kevin's, except for guitars). Hell
I'd even be into just listening...
Some thoughts:
1) No more than two guitars at a time please,.. preferrably one
2) I don't like the idea of juges, scoring, and competition.
Everyone who is there can make up their own minds. I'd rather give
everyone more time to demo and play than to spend time doing detailed
analysis etc etc... at the end of the night,.. everyone could cast
an informal vote ... The value to me is in hearing all the different
rigs and stuff,.. and to have that chance to make up my own
determination. The "best" is again a subjective matter of taste,..
and I wouldn't want us to get hung up trying to determine whats
best,...cuz really no one thing is...
3) Everyone shoudl get equal treatment with respect to alloted time
to demo or jam or whatever...
/Bill
|
| 2473.83 | and the winner is....... | TRUCKS::LITTEN | | Fri Mar 20 1992 02:34 | 13 |
|
What you guys ought to do is the same trick they do for HiFi rigs
ie. blind testing.
Set up a stage with an accoustic curtain, and do pair "play-offs, with the
judges giving their verdict. A semi-final then a final.....winner declared.
The curtain stops posing/gear preference biasing opinions.
Dave
|
| 2473.85 | wish I could see this stuff | EZ2GET::STEWART | the leper with the most fingers | Fri Mar 20 1992 10:21 | 16 |
|
> Set up a stage with an accoustic curtain, ...
But can still see the LEDs???
I can't see this as a black tie affair...I think I'd favor the candy
store approach...a row of guitars and a row of racks and a row of
stacks. Every fifteen minutes, a flashpot explodes and you have to
switch rigs.
Not satisfactory, either, huh? Not enough time, too loud, and no
pretense at objectivity.
Actually, I can't see anyway to do anything more than casual analysis
with this much gear in one night...so why try?
|
| 2473.86 | More Questions than answers | NEST::CONROY | Watch out! U might get what u're after. | Fri Mar 20 1992 11:37 | 21 |
| This sounds like it might be interesting, as long as it doesn't
degenerate into a volume war.
Count me in as definitely interested in coming, but I've got a few questions.
My amp is a Marshal microstack. I'd bring it for demo purposes, if
anyone wants to see what they sound like, but I don't think it's
loud enough to play over a band.
Would this be an opportunity to try out other people's equipment?
For example, I'd love to hear my guitar through Larry's JCM900
combo. Would this be possible or would that be too crazy to organize
with all the equipment and people?
I could bring a nylon string electric also, and that wouldn't really fit
into the band format.
One last thing, why does it have to be a tone "contest". I would forget
about the judging stuff, although comparisons would be interesting.
Bob
|
| 2473.88 | | PHAROS::SAKELARIS | | Fri Mar 20 1992 12:42 | 5 |
| re .-1
Agreed, bring your ministack. I'd like to hear it.
"sakman"
|
| 2473.89 | | NEST::CONROY | Watch out! U might get what u're after. | Fri Mar 20 1992 14:31 | 4 |
|
Sounds good to me. We'll have our own "DAMM" show!
Bob
|
| 2473.90 | I've had enough ADA bashing ! | FSOA::BKALINOWSKI | | Tue Mar 24 1992 14:25 | 9 |
| COOP.......
There will be an ADA_MP1, Mosvalve, SE50 Rig there........
Mine...... I be the keeper of the ADA faith. If the day permits Count
me in !
Brian
|
| 2473.91 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Tue Mar 24 1992 14:35 | 7 |
| RE: Brian
'Ats my BOY !!
Take no prisoners !! Show 'em that lovely chorus too.
:)
|
| 2473.92 | "I think there's a mosquito in here!" | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Tue Mar 24 1992 14:57 | 5 |
| Yo Brian, do you think anyone will be able to hear it?
Yuk yuk yuk!
gh
|
| 2473.93 | BUZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzz | CAVLRY::BUCK | cry to me | Tue Mar 24 1992 14:57 | 3 |
| > -< "I think there's a mosquito in here!" >-
Swat that annoying thing...
|
| 2473.94 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Tue Mar 24 1992 15:07 | 12 |
| I'll swat both you guys...
:)
FWIW - Brian has agreed to demo my patches for me too - just to show you the
verstility thing, I'm gonna have my MPU401 dial my built-in modem to
Brians MPU401 with built in modem and do the patch load in real-time
whilst all you Marshall pukes are fiddling with knobs and cables.
Right Bri !?!?! Wagagagagagagaaaaa... Just as good as being
there. :)
Wagagagagagagagagaaaa...
|
| 2473.95 | better than Raid | FRETZ::HEISER | maranatha | Tue Mar 24 1992 16:12 | 1 |
| A few power chords from the JCM900 and it will magically disappear.
|
| 2473.96 | Bucks a monster,.. believe it | STAR::SALKEWICZ | It missed... therefore, I am | Tue Mar 24 1992 16:28 | 10 |
| the "tone" of this conversation has this thing turning into
a real competitive kind of deal,..
I'm going to downgrade myself to (maybe) casual observer
If I want to get blown away, .. all I gotta do is show up for
my next guitar lesson...
/Bill
|
| 2473.97 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Tue Mar 24 1992 16:37 | 6 |
| Yo Bill - haven't you been around here long enough to knwo that use folks
in the "B.O.T." THRIVE on trying to get each other dander up ??
jc (Who knows buck is a monster, but this is a TONE war, not a chops war :)
PS - if it were the later, I'd lock myself in the basement. :)
|
| 2473.98 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | cry to me | Tue Mar 24 1992 16:54 | 2 |
| Brian K has a NICE 100wt Marshall he should be proud of, so THAIR!
8^P
|
| 2473.99 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Tue Mar 24 1992 17:05 | 8 |
| Gee, everyone with Mp1s who owns Marshalls also, seems to have a #1
rig tho.
>:-0
Wagagaga.
jc (who doesn't own a marshall any longer)
|
| 2473.100 | oh yeah - 100 repliezzzz | UNYEM::REAUME | ACCESS VALVE | Wed Mar 25 1992 07:09 | 8 |
|
Maybe I'll just bring my acoustic ---- B-}.
Are we closing in a proposed date for this. I can possibly rack and
roll out to MA, I-90 all the way!
-B()()M-
|
| 2473.101 | Geeze are you guys mean | FSOA::BKALINOWSKI | | Wed Mar 25 1992 07:37 | 35 |
|
Who's the sicko' that suggested I was going to attempt a "Chop Off"
with anyone.....Bahha aha ha ahaha aaaah. NO..NO..NO.... This is a
tone benchmarking party ! Geeze if I had to try to play better than
someone I'd lock myself in Coops basement.
JC and I will do a real time long distance (better yet we'll use TSN to
avoid those Lond distance modem charges) midi link and download. Then I'll
play some lame'o leads and a coupla power chords so all those who
didn't have the patients to learn how to program their ADA's can hear
what they can really do.
Coop....Make sure to send me tose patches you'd like them to hear just
incase the modem card I installed in the ADA sh*ts the bed. No reason
to bring a "Scholar" when you've got a built in modem. ;*)
I think these sound tests should be done blindfolded. Too many of you
ADA bigots are prone to condem it before you even give it a fair
Listen.
Audience: "Oh that's an ADA....sounds like mosquito,buzzzzzy, crap....
Really...geeze next to the Marshalls I can't hear it at all."
Common guys ... we all work for Digital.... shouldn't Valuing
Differences be extended to include amplification preference and
orientation. 8*)
RE: Buck
I put three new 12AX7's in the Marshall head. It now has new life.
Crunches like Grape Nuts. Maybe I'll bring the Marshall head also.
Thanks for the endorcement
BK
|
| 2473.102 | does that Marshall stay crispy in milk? | RICKS::CALCAGNI | multiple sarcasm | Wed Mar 25 1992 07:54 | 7 |
| "Crunches like Grape Nuts", I love it!
If I decide to show up and play some 6 at this shindig, none of you will
have to worry about being embarrassed by your chops; I'll have that
market cornered.
/rick
|
| 2473.103 | any other takers? | GOOROO::CLARK | Running on Faith | Wed Mar 25 1992 08:08 | 19 |
| So far, the following people have expressed interest in being at
this 'tone benchmarking party' (I like that! Kinda blends 90's
buzzwords with timeless guitar Darwinism). Not everyone wants to
play, but hey, that's okay, I can value your differences.
octave::vigneault
calvry::buck
decwin::mcdonough
e::evans
uspmlo::desrochers
ardev::goodwin
ricks::calcagni (offered to play bass)
star::salkewicz
stout::russo (my tone brother-in-law to be!)
anyone else? I'd like to get together somewhere in the near future
(offsite after work over a few brewskis of course) and hammer out a plan.
- Dave
|
| 2473.104 | ;-) | FRETZ::HEISER | maranatha | Wed Mar 25 1992 08:16 | 1 |
| hey Greg, Coop, don't ya think we should sign up for a class that week?
|
| 2473.105 | 1 more | FSOA::BKALINOWSKI | | Wed Mar 25 1992 08:56 | 6 |
| re:-2
Geeze Dave.....Don't forget me.
Or do us ADA people not count 8^)
Brian
|
| 2473.106 | | FREEBE::REAUME | ACCESS the Tone Zone | Wed Mar 25 1992 08:58 | 11 |
|
.....an addition to .103 (if I make it I betcha I would travel the
furthest!)
freebe::reaume
-B()()M-
p.s. scheduled date will detemine if I can make it!
|
| 2473.107 | | PHAROS::SAKELARIS | | Wed Mar 25 1992 09:26 | 9 |
| Count me in on this. I'll be bringing my "The Twin".
I'm also thinking if someone has a jam tape or a sequencer with a
couple of jam tunes -guitar we could set up, it might be useful. I do have
a keybaord that I have a couple of things loaded that I play along with,
but one of our midipeople or some of you with recorders might be
better. Whatever, its gotta be generic - like blues or basic R&R based.
"sakman"
|
| 2473.108 | | MANTHN::EDD | I refuse to talk to myself | Wed Mar 25 1992 10:01 | 5 |
| I'd be willing to provide the same sequences I offered on the jam
tape, if I could be provided with amplification. I'd need a minimum
of 4 inputs, preferably in stereo...
Edd
|
| 2473.109 | | WASTED::tomg | I'd rather eat dirt.... | Wed Mar 25 1992 10:28 | 7 |
|
I'd like to attend, though I have no rig to show (or is that
show off? ;^) ).
I can play a little bass, if that's on the agenda...
-T
|
| 2473.110 | Not I, sorry... | GOES11::G_HOUSE | Now I'm down in it | Wed Mar 25 1992 10:38 | 7 |
| > hey Greg, Coop, don't ya think we should sign up for a class that week?
Oh, if getting out of town were *that* easy. They offer so many
classes here, no manager in the Springs will sign off on travel for
training... (except in *extremely* rare conditions)
gh
|
| 2473.111 | So what do you have so far? | WEDOIT::ABATELLI | Who knew? | Wed Mar 25 1992 11:14 | 25 |
| So ya gonna make it really fair?
Like...
1.) No effects (makes it fair for any amp w/o reverb)
2.) Straight into the amp (no added gain devices except for the amp)
(exception to the rule would be preamp/pwr amp rigs)
3.) One LARGE cable to go to all the rigs
4.) Many MANY colored sheets to go in front of the amps so folks
don't know *what* they's playing. 8^)
So just out of curiousity... how many rigs do you guys have so far
and *what* are they?
Make Model Quantity ;^) Owner
____________________________________________________________________
??? ??? ?? ??????????
Just call me curious....
Rock on,
Fred
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| 2473.112 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Wed Mar 25 1992 11:15 | 8 |
| Yeah, what he said.
Bummer though.
But - I'll be out in early June for a couple weeks...
jc (Who might not be able to bring his rig, but would liek to attend a
gathering of sorts...)
|
| 2473.113 | | DPE::STARR | They call it Paradise, I don't know why | Wed Mar 25 1992 11:51 | 12 |
| Actually, if you really want to have a fair comparison of amps, the best way
to do it is to have ONE guitar player, using the same guitar, plays through
each of the amps while everyone else listens. Otherwise, you'll never know
how much of the tone is the amp, and how much is the player and/or guitar.
Not that that would be nearly as fun, just more reliable....
BTW, you can sign my up (depending of course upon location and date). I'll be
bringing a KH Quattro -> SP-1000 power amp -> 2 1x12 Marshall cabs (assuming
effects are left out of the chain).
alan
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| 2473.114 | life isn't fair | RICKS::CALCAGNI | multiple sarcasm | Wed Mar 25 1992 12:04 | 11 |
| Personally, I don't care how fair or scientific a test this thing is.
I suggest keeping it simple. Each player get up there with his/her
own amp and guitar and just do your thing. If you want to go solo,
that's cool. If you want bass/drums backing you up, or even another
guitar for rhythm, that's cool too. I like the suggestion of no
effects, just straight into the amp, but hey, if someone *HAS* to
have their favorite box inline to really get that boss tone, I won't
kick to much. Just keep within the spirit, and not turn this into
the battle of the network microprocessors.
/rick
|
| 2473.115 | | PHAROS::SAKELARIS | | Wed Mar 25 1992 12:07 | 16 |
| Well I guess the title of the topic does sugest some sort of
competition, but that's not at all what I'm interested in. I've written
before about maybe trading amps with someone for a week or some such
just to get to know the product in an environment different than at the
store.
In particular, I would like to know a little better how my
Fender compares with a Marshall. I've always loved the sound of a
Marshall on record or on stage, but I've never had any real experience
with one outside the store. I see this as an opportunity to find out
exactly what a Marshall or a Boogie or a .... sounds like. I'd like to
hear you playing your rig, and I'd like to try it too using my guitar.
"sakman"
|
| 2473.116 | ditto | RICKS::CALCAGNI | multiple sarcasm | Wed Mar 25 1992 12:19 | 2 |
| Yeah, I was going to mention that. I'd definitely hope to
see some "rig swapping" going on.
|
| 2473.117 | I'm still up for this | MILKWY::JACQUES | Vintage taste, reissue budget | Wed Mar 25 1992 13:03 | 3 |
| Re 103. Don't forget me and my Fender "The Twin"
Mark
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| 2473.118 | | FREEBE::REAUME | ACCESS the Tone Zone | Wed Mar 25 1992 14:31 | 19 |
|
Geeez - it's getting tougher. I won't pull my effects out of the
rack. What do I have to do, leave the effects in bypass?
Timing is gonna be important here!
What I can bring unaffected::
H & K ACCESS MIDI tube preamp thru a Metaltronix SP-1000
REXX 610S preamp into a MOSvalve power amp
-or-
Kitty Hawk M5 (6V6 tubes) combo
I could -punch in- the Intellifex is someone want to hear the
diff between effected and un-effected.
-B**M-
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| 2473.119 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | We shall be a nation free as one | Wed Mar 25 1992 14:32 | 3 |
| -1
REXX 1602 into KH 4x12...BOOM!
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| 2473.120 | | FREEBE::REAUME | ACCESS the Tone Zone | Wed Mar 25 1992 15:06 | 9 |
|
C'mon Buck _ I gotta bring the newest GTS contraption!
And the 610S is a lot like the 1602 w/ additional good.
The KH 4X12? We'll see! I'm not gonna say any more until the
schedule gets set.
-B**M-
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| 2473.121 | | FDCV08::GOODWIN | | Wed Mar 25 1992 15:32 | 18 |
| What I can do is either:
KH M1 into 2x12 or 4x12
-or-
SOHO tube preamp into Quadraverb into MosValve into 2 or 4 12's
If we're going to bypass effects, I'll leave the QV+ out of the loop
altogether because the SOHO puts out a much hotter signal than the QV.
I have to use the input level on the QV to "tone" it down a bit.
And of course, the above will ultimately be tone-ified by the trusty
ol' Gibson SG (their famous Steve Goodwin model)... 8^) 8^).. insert
many smiling faces!!
Steve_who_wants_to_fill_out_an_application_to_join_the_brotherhood_of_tone
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| 2473.122 | | FRETZ::HEISER | maranatha | Wed Mar 25 1992 16:14 | 3 |
| Don't forget the Olympic-style-judge's-scoring cards.
Marshall's will get the 10s.
|
| 2473.123 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Wed Mar 25 1992 16:34 | 3 |
| No Mike, Marshalls scoring cars go to 11.
:)
|
| 2473.124 | I got clean .... | RAVEN1::JERRYWHITE | Hey you're pretty good - NOT ! | Wed Mar 25 1992 17:09 | 6 |
| Hey, I could bring both configurations of my Laney. That consists of a
10' cable for home use, of a 25' cable for applications where my beer
may be further than 10' from my amp. My clean mode would hurt some
folks feelings ... 8^)
Jerry
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| 2473.125 | | GANTRY::ALLBERY | Jim | Thu Mar 26 1992 10:02 | 2 |
| The new 900-series scoring cards go to 20.
:)
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| 2473.126 | possible meeting spot? | FDCV08::GOODWIN | | Thu Mar 26 1992 10:03 | 7 |
| How about the Rusty Scupper on route 2A in Acton as a place to meet to
iron out details? It's fairly central to the 3M area, and it's got a
large bar that can handle reasonably sized groups unannounced...
Is this a good or bad choice for anyone interested?
/Steve
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| 2473.127 | Sure | FSOA::BKALINOWSKI | | Thu Mar 26 1992 10:48 | 6 |
| Steve
Sounds good to me.....any night but Wednesday
BK
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| 2473.128 | let's get the ball rolling ... | GOOROO::CLARK | Running on Faith | Mon Mar 30 1992 13:53 | 14 |
| so, let's get down to business .. let's hook up somewhere and
work out the details of this battle. Somebody suggested the
Scupper in Acton; that's pretty central. I can meet after work
given enough lead time (depending on my wife's busy schedule).
The week before Easter is bad for me since my wife is a church
keyboardist.
How about lunch? Anyone up for meeting then? We could meet at
that Chinese place next to LKG (what's the name?)
Send me email with your availability and I'll try to find a time
that's convenient for most people.
- Dave
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| 2473.129 | great buffet! | CAVLRY::BUCK | Heartbreak Boulevard | Mon Mar 30 1992 15:28 | 4 |
| >How about lunch? Anyone up for meeting then? We could meet at
>that Chinese place next to LKG (what's the name?)
Sure...Yanzee River (aka LKG3) 8^)
|
| 2473.130 | I'm In. | FSOA::BKALINOWSKI | | Mon Mar 30 1992 20:25 | 4 |
| Let me know when and if I'm here ( I have 2, 4 day to Canada comming up
back to back over the next 2 weeks) I'll be there.
Brian
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| 2473.131 | next week .. | GOOROO::CLARK | Running on Faith | Wed Apr 01 1992 15:50 | 6 |
| So, let's do lunch at the Yangtze River. What are the best days for
you next week? Tuesday and Friday are not good for me. Other than
that, I'm clear. Pls. send EMAIL so I don't have to wade through
a bunch of replies here.
- Dave
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| 2473.132 | Wednesday, April 8, Yantze, be there | GOOROO::CLARK | Running on Faith | Thu Apr 02 1992 10:43 | 7 |
| Lunch it is, next wednesday at the Yangtze river at, say, 11:45.
Is that okay with everyone? I'll make reservation/post an agenda
in here early next week so we know basically what we're going to
talk about. So far there are 4 people (including myself) who have
expressed an interest in showing up.
- Dave
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| 2473.133 | | FSOA::BKALINOWSKI | | Thu Apr 02 1992 10:49 | 4 |
| How about some directions ?
I don't know where this place is.
BK
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| 2473.134 | | CAVLRY::BUCK | Heartbreak Boulevard | Thu Apr 02 1992 11:00 | 4 |
| It's on RT 110 in Littleton, about 800 feet North of Littleton Common.
It is DIRECTLY next to LKG2 (on your left), hence the surname name of
the rest. being LKG3! If you pass Kimball's Ice Cream, bang a Uee,
you've gone too far!
|
| 2473.135 | | GOOROO::CLARK | I didn't inhale | Thu Apr 02 1992 12:42 | 8 |
| re .-1
further simplification ...
take the rt. 119 exit off 495; head toward littleton. Make a left at
the first light, Yangtze is about .1 miles up on the left.
- Dave
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| 2473.136 | | KDX200::COOPER | Step UP to the RACK ! | Thu Apr 02 1992 12:47 | 4 |
| You guys are makin;' me DROOL FOR A KIMBALLS BANNANA SPLIT !!!!!!!!!
Whaaaaa...
jc (Semi-Weened)
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| 2473.137 | | DECWIN::KMCDONOUGH | Set Kids/Nosick | Thu Apr 02 1992 13:35 | 11 |
|
Are we really having a *meeting* to discuss a guitar rig comparison?
Arrrgggghhh.
Then again, if the idea is to have lunch and shoot the breeze about
tone, that's different. 8-)
Kevin
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| 2473.138 | see you tomorrow ... | GOOROO::CLARK | I didn't inhale | Tue Apr 07 1992 11:41 | 15 |
| I'll make reservation for 8 for 11:45; so far about 5-6 people have
indicated interest.
Here's some of the stuff I thought we should decide:
1. Format; i.e. do we want to have a bass player and drummer?
2 rigs at a time? 1 at a time? Have some metal settings then
some blues settings?
2. Do we want to bother with a PA?
3. Jam out at the end? If so, I'd still like to keep things
from becoming '32 guitars all at 11'.
- Dave
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| 2473.139 | | GOOROO::CLARK | I didn't inhale | Wed Apr 08 1992 10:19 | 3 |
| reservations for Clark for 11:45; hope to see some of you there!
- Dave
|
| 2473.140 | | UNYEM::REAUME | ACCESS VALVE | Tue Apr 28 1992 10:07 | 5 |
|
...looks like this topic is a "clean-up" candidate!
-B()()M-
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| 2473.141 | ToneDemo is coming | CAVLRY::BUCK | Aunty Emme ... It's a TWISTER! | Tue Apr 28 1992 10:10 | 2 |
| No need to clean this up ... The Cat and I will probably plan 'just
an equipment demo' affair sometime for the future. Watch this space...
|