Conference napalm::guitar

Article 16196 of rec.music.makers:
From: [email protected] (Mario Kefalopoulos)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
Subject: Tascam 424 Portastudio Specifications
Date: 28 Nov 91 18:56:37 GMT

These are the specifications for the Tascam 424 Portastudio:

MECHANICAL CHARACTERISTICS

Tape:                Compact Cassette (C-30 to 90), High- bias (Type II, CrO2)
Track Format:        4-track/4-channel, single directional record/play
Head Configuration:  4-channel record/play (Permalloy)x1
                     4-channel erase (ferrite)x1
Motor:               DC servo capstan motor x 1
                     DC reel motor x 1
Tape Speed:          HIGH: 9.5 cm/sec.(3-3/4 ips)
                     NORM: 4.8 cm/sec.(1-7/8 ips)
                     SLOW: 2.4 cm/sec.(15/16 ips)
Tape Speed Accuracy: +- 1% (at HIGH and NORM)
Pitch Control:       +- 12% (approx)
Wow and Flutter:     0.07% WRMS, +- 1.2% W.Peak at NORM
                     0.05% WRMS, +- 1.0% W.Peak at HIGH
Fast Winding Time:   100 sec. (approx.) with C-60
Dimension (WxHxD):   366 x 110 x 304 mm (14-7/16" x 4-5/16" x 11-15/16")
Weight:              1.5 kg (5.51 lbs)

ELECTRICAL CHARACTERISTICS

MIC/LINE IN (1/4" phone jack x 4)
 Input Impedance:     50k ohms
 Nominal Input Level: -50 dBV (3mV) at Trim Max. -10 dBV (0.3 V) at Trim Min.
 Maximum Input Level: +6 dBV (1.8 V) at Trim Min.
STEREO INPUTS (1/4" stereo phone jack x 2)
 Input Impedance:     10k ohms
 Nominal Input Level: -10 dBV (0.3 V)
 Minimum Input Level: -16 dBV (0.15 V)
LINE OUT L & R/TAPE OUT 1-2 (RCA jack x 2)
 Output Impedance:    1k ohms
 Nominal Output Level:-10 dBV (0.3 V)
SYNC IN/TAPE OUT 3 (RCA jack x 1)
 Input Impedance:     5k ohms
 Nominal Input Level: -10 dBV (0.3 V)
 Output Impedance:    1k ohms
 Nominal Output Level:-10 dBV (0.3 V)
SYNC OUT/TAPE OUT 4 (RCA jack x 1)
 Output Impedance:    1k ohms
 Nominal Output Level:-10 dBV (0.3 V)
PHONES (1/4" stereo phone jack x 1)
 Nominal Load Impedance: 8 ohms
 Maximum Output Level:   100 mW + 100 mW approx. (at 8 ohms)
EQUALIZER
 HIGH (Shelving):     10 kHz, +- 10 dB
 LOW (Shelving):      100 Hz, +- 10 dB

Frequency Response:
 MIC IN to L/R LINE OUT:     20 Hz to 30 kHz, +- 3 dB
 LINE IN to L/R LINE OUT:    20 Hz to 30 kHz, +- 3 dB
 LINE IN to L/R EFFECT SEND: 20 Hz to 30 kHz, +- 3 dB
 LINE IN to PHONES:          50 Hz to 20 kHz, +- 3 dB

Signal-to-Noise Ratio (at Nominal Input Level)
                             UNWTD (20 Hz to 20 kHz)
 MIC IN to L/R LINE OUT:     66 dB at Trim Max.
 LINE IN to L/R LINE OUT:    70 dB
Total Harmonic Distortion (THD)
 MIC IN to L/R LINE OUT:     0.06% (at 1 kHz, 10 dB above nominal input level,
                             with 30 kHz low-pass filter inserted)
 LINE IN to L/R LINE OUT:    0.04% (at 1 kHz, nominal input level with 30 kHz
                             low-pass filter inserted)
Crosstalk:                   55 dB (at 1 kHz, nominal input level with 30 kHz
                             low-pass filter inserted)

Recorder Section

Record/Playback Channel:  4 in number (4 channel simultaneous)
Noise Reduction:          dbx Type II (Off on ch.4 with the DBX switch at SYNC)
Freq. Res. (overall):     40 Hz to 16 kHz, +-3 dB (at HIGH speed)
                          40 Hz to 12.5 kHz, +-3 dB (at NORM speed)
S/N Ratio (overall):      UNWTD (20 Hz to 20 kHz)/IHF A WTD
    HIGH:                 55 dB/58 dB (without dbx)
                          90 dB/95 dB (with dbx)
    NORM:                 54 dB/56 dB (withoug dbx)
                          88 dB/93 dB (with dbx)
Total Har. Distortion:    1.0% or less (at 1 kHz, 0 dB)
Crosstalk (adj. channels): 70 dB (at 1 kHz, 0 dB, with dbx)
                           50 dB (at 1 kHz, 0 db, without dbx)
Erasure:                   70 dB or less (at 1 kHz, BPF iserted)
Power Requirement:         12 V DC, 1100 mA, via the provided AC-DC adaptor
                           PS-P424
Power Consumption:         18 W

In these specifications, 0 dBV is referenced to 1 Volt.  ACtual voltage levels
are also given in parenthesis (0.316 V for -10 dBV rounded off to 0.3 V)

==============================================================================

mk

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mario  Kefalopoulos       [email protected]      4611 N. Cambell
pa vu ga di ke zo ni      [email protected]     Chicago, IL 60625
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Article 16330 of rec.music.makers:
From: [email protected] (Marc Sabatella)
Newsgroups: rec.music.makers
Subject: Re: Tascam 424 Portastudio Specifications
Date: 2 Dec 91 18:16:15 GMT

In rec.music.makers, [email protected] (Mario Kefalopoulos) writes:

> These are the specifications for the Tascam 424 Portastudio:

Thank you for posting these!  Some subjective questions for anyone:

> Freq. Res. (overall):     40 Hz to 16 kHz, +-3 dB (at HIGH speed)

OK, so the sales guy was right.  Am I expecting too much to be disappointed at
both ends here?  I mean, my home deck does better at normal speed...

In any case, I see now the "464" has been announced, which has four XLR inputs,
two *real* stereo inputs (ie, two 1/4" each), and more EQ controls.  But it is
apparently not avaiable yet.  Does anyone know more about this that the one
paragraph in Electronic Musician?

--------------
Marc Sabatella - "So many drummers, so little time..."
[email protected]

    
    
    Specs on consumer electronics are sometimes optimistic.  Are the specs
    on your home deck from the manufacturer's data sheet or are they
    measured?
    
    I'm not defending Tascam, or anything, it's just real easy to get
    misled by expert players in this numbers game...
    

    Also remember that a good home stereo cassette deck might cost you
    $300-$400 and it has only a tape unit and two level controls.  The 424
    has a full function 4 channel mixer, the extra electronics and hardware
    to use all four tracks on the tape and it only costs slightly more then
    that.  Naturally the manufacturers can make a higher quality unit that
    doesn't include all those extras for around the same price.  If you
    want a fair unit to compare it to, pick one in the $600-$700 price
    range and (unless it includes a better mixer or something) I bet you'll
    find specifications which are closer.
    
    Greg

    Just for kicks, here are the specs from my Nakamichi RX-202 cassette
    deck (2 head, unidirectional auto reverse, Dolby B & C...).  This deck
    listed for over $900 last I checked.  These are the only specs in the
    manual.  This model first came out in 1986.
    
    Tracks - 4 tracks/2 channel stereo
    Heads  - 2 (erase, record/playback)
    Motors - DC servo motor (capstan drive), DC motor (reel drive)
    Power Source - 100, 120, 120/220-240, 220 or 240V AC; 50/60Hz
    Power Consumption - 30 W max
    Tape speed - 1 7/8 ips � 0.5%
    Wow & Flutter - < � 0.11% WTD Peak, < � 0.06% WTD RMS
    Freq. Response - 20-20kHz (recording level - 20db, ZX, SX, EX II tape)
    S-N Ratio - Dolby C on, 70�s ZX tape, better than 68db (400Hz, 3% THD,
                IHF A-WTD RMS)
                Dolby B on, 70�s ZX tape, better than 62db (400Hz, 3% THD,
                IHF A-WTD RMS)
    THD - < 1% (400Hz, 0db, ZX, EX II tape)
          < 1.2% (400Hz, 0db, SX tape)
    Erasure - better than 60db (100Hz, + 10db)
    Separation - better than 36db (1kHz 0db)
    Crosstalk - better than 60db (1kHz 0db)
    Bias Frequency - 105kHz
    Fast Winding time - ~85 seconds (with C-60 cassette)
    Input (Line) - 50mV, 30kohms
    Output (Line) - 0.5V (400Hz, 0db, output leve control at max) 2.2kohms
           (Headphones) - 2.2mW (400Hz, 0db, output leve control at max) 
                          8ohm load
    Dimensions - 17 3/4" W x 5 3/8" H x 10" D
    Weight     - 19lbs. 13ozs.

    
    
    two points:
    
    1. the frequency response spec needs an attached dynamic range; 20 Hz
    to 20 kHz is not as good as it looks if the high end response is down
    6dB, and
    
    2. the record level specified to achieve those results is -20dB; while
    this is a common and valid way to spec this measurement, it trades
    signal to noise ratio degradation for frequency response improvement.
    
    None of this is intended to slash (to coin a phrase) on your Nakamichi,
    it's just part of the specsmanship game that goes on.
    
    Didn't we just talk about all of this stuff a week or two ago?  Or was
    that in the Audio conference, or some other parallel dimension?
    
    

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Model   Tracks Simul Chann Inputs Speeds NR  MIDI Efx   Memory Sync List
               Rec                                Loops Locs        $$
------------------------------------------------------------------------
238       8     8     NA      8    C     DBX  N    NA   2+RTZ    Y  1800
424       4     4      4      8    ABC   DBX  N    1    1+RTZ    N   549
488       8     4      8     12    C     DBX  N    2    2+RTZ    N  1599
644       4     4      8     16    BC    DBX  Y    4    2+RTZ    Y  1499
688       8     8     10     20    C     DBX  Y    4    2+RTZ    Y  3299
Porta03   4     2      2      2    B     DolB N    NA   None     N   329
Porta2    4     4      4      6    B     DBX  N    1    RTZ      N   949
Porta2HS  4     4      4      6    C     DBX  N    1    RTZ      N   949
------------------------------------------------------------------------

KEY: A = 15/16 ips     RTZ = Return to zero
     B = 1 7/8 ips
     C = 3 3/4 ips

    If anyone is thinking about saving money and getting a PORTA03, I would
    advise against it. It won't ping pong tracks. You can't for example
    take tracks 1,2,3 and put on 4. You can't use a patch cord and take
    the output of 1,2,3 (Panned left) into track 4 which is panned right.
    You would have to mix down to another deck then come back to the
    PORTA03.
    
    I also felt the transport was cheesy and wouldn't hold up. However, the
    sound of the deck was ok for what it cost.
    
    Jay
    

	Can't wait..... Thank you Santa.

    Just for your info.
    
    	I've had a Tascam porta one for about 3yrs.  Although the quality 
    was good (for a tape deck) I always found a couple of things annoying.
    
    	1. After I put down the drum track (maybe with bass ) and then
    recorded guitar and vocal tracks I would want to maybe change the
    drum or bass part and that meant recording the whole song again.
    
    	2. I found that the quality of say snares when recorded wasnot
    as good as what was coming out of the drum machine.
    
    	3. Vocals and guitar was not very bright.
    
    	So here is the solution.
    
    Firstly my gear :	Tascam Porta one
    			Roland D20  (sound mod.keyboard.and sequencer)
    			8 channell mixer
    			Microverb III   (goes across effects send of mixer)
    			Anatek Pocket Synch.
    			Amplifier and Monitor speakers
    			Head phones
    			PZM Michrophone
    			Head Phones
    
    	OK so whats the big deal.
    Well with this set up you can have total flexibilty making your
    recordings.  Because the pocket synch puts down an audio tone on say
    Track 4 which then drives the pocket synch which in turn drives your
    sequencer , drum machine etc which the outputs go directly to the
    mixer and not to tape (quality increase is substantial). so that
    leaves you 3 tracks to record what has to go to tape say 2 guitars
    and vocals.  This means your 4 track recorder which could only do
    4 tracks without pingponging can now give you as many tracks as your 
    sequencer allows plus 3 others all on first generation signal.
    
    	Equally as important you can change the structure of the song
    without having to redo everything.  Also by not commiting things
    like reverb etc to tape at mixdown time you dont have to loose
    that cool guitar take because of the crappy reverb.
    
    	The PZM microphone gives brightness to your vocals acoustic and
    electric guitars that compensates for the tape format.  
    
    	The big bonus in this as you can record your synch pulse onto track
    4 with DBX noise reduction on and the sequencer will still sych to it.
    It had been mentioned in some articles that you can't and therefore
    would need to have a unit that switched of noise reduction on each
    track.
    
    	My point is the Pocket synch costs about $150 AUSTRALIAN the PZM
    Michrophone cost $75 AUS. (US pricing approx 2/3 s of that) and you
    have unbelievable flexibility for your recording and very good quality
    for little money.
    				
     P.K.

    A friend wants to know what he can get for his Tascam 488.  He asked
    me, but I don't know diddly about the Tascam line!!
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Buck

    I'll give him $200 for it!

    -1
    
    This is serious...he lent his friend his guitar (BC Rich Custom)
    and his ME-5 and his friend had the equipment stolen.  All this 
    guy got 'back' for the stolen equipment was a Tascam 488.  He
    need an axe, so, if anyone can tell me how much the unit could 
    be sold for?

Ouch!  NO insurance ??

I'm not sure what the 488 would go for used, but Musicians fiend
has 'em for about $1300.

$1000 ??

jc (Who love to but...)

    Check the want ad. It's usually in line with the going prices. Find a
    few and average the price out.
    
    Dave'
    

In the latest Daddy's flyer, they have a 488 listed for $1099. 

alan

    	Have your friend call a familiar Music Store dealer who has the 
    Orion Blue Book which will list Retail,Average Street Retail,wholesale
    and tradein value. I'm sure any dealer will help out as they may gain
    from providing the info.
    
    							Rick

     
    
    I've got a Tascam 424 4 track.  I've connected the 
    outputs of my receiver to the first two 1/4 inch
    inputs, and then put the output of my effects loop
    from the amp into the third input.  All three 
    "tracks" are set to direct.  I hit play and 
    record, and saw the levels lighting up for 
    all three of the channels.  However, when 
    I play it back, I only hear whatever was
    going into channels 1 and 2.  
    
    Why?  I thought I was supposed to be able 
    to do 4 tracks simultaneously with this 
    machine?  Are people out there doing 
    this kind of thing with no problem?  
    
    I know I know, R.T.F.M. . . I've
    only _skimmed_ the manual at this point.   
    
    Dave                                

    I don't *think* the 424 does allow you to record four tracks at
    once...  Few cassette based 4 tracks will letcha do dat.
    
    However, I might be wrong:  In this case, check your assign switches,
    and pan pots.  Generally your assign switches say "1-2" which means
    that that particular input goes to track 1, *and/or* track 2, depending
    on your pan pot (full left goes to track one, full right to track two,
    in the middle to BOTH tracks...
    
    jc
      

I bought a 424 two weeks ago and I've been using it heavily
to record my bands.   It absolutely positively *will* record 4 
tracks at a time.  (If you think I'm crazy, look at the specs
section of the manual.)   I'm really happy with this 4 track,
I haven't noticed the slightest tape hiss, even after ping-ponging
two tracks over to one.  The dbx really works well.  I got 
mine for $450, slightly used.  New ones were $525 at Guitar Center.

I suspect the problem is during play back.

How are you listenning to play back?
There are two ways:

1) Headphones.  Release the RIGHT and LEFT buttons and depress the CUE button.
   Use the knobs above the headphone volume to adjust the playback levels 
   of each track.

2) If your playing back through a stereo using the R/L RCA outputs on the
   back, be sure the little black switch is set in the correct position,
   the wrong position gives you a direct output (each track goes to it's 
   own RCA output, so you'd only hear tracks 1 and 2).   From reading the
   manual, I could not tell what position was which, so I had to try both. 

Also, do you see the levels for all three tracks during playback? If
not try switching the input selector for each input to the center 
"TAPE" position, otherwise you just get the input line passed through
instead of the tape playback.
  
Also, if your trying to record on track 4, be sure the track 4
switch is not in SYNC mode.

    Thanks! It was in part a playback problem, 
    which I quickly determined using headphones as you
    suggested and hearing all the tracks.  
    
    I was trying out an Alesis Quadraverb GT along with the deck, thinking
    that direct from the effects loop send of my Princeton Chorus might not 
    sound good.  But I took the Quad back, after deciding the reverb and 
    chorus (and even tube distortion emulator) on my Fender Princeton 
    sound fine on tape for my purposes.  Plus I didn't like the 
    presets on the Alesis, or the distortion.  
      
    I can tell its going to be fun and a learning experience.  
    As the guy at the store said you use "different ears" when
    you listen back than when you play.
    
    Dave

    In case nobody knows this yet...
    
    The 488 was recently upgraded to 488 mkII. It is now black in color
    and has different mixer/patch abilities. (I don't know which machine
    has better specs or abilities.)
    
    As a result, the older 'grey' units dropped about $100-$200 in price.
    Saw 'em for about $11xx last month.
    
    Larry (who should read this confersnce more often)