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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

2317.0. "Stage lighting" by STAR::ROBIE (Return To Zero,RTZ) Fri Sep 06 1991 15:15

	Stage lighting, what's it all about? I'm in a working GB band,
you know, weddings and restaurant/club/lounge that kinda stuff. We've
been working steadily(2-3 weekend a month) for 2 years and feel it's
time to look for some serious stage lighting. Up until now  we've 
been using some "home-made" stuff but want to move up to professional 
gear.

	But I haven't a clue where to start! Should we buy new? Go down
to Daddy's and get the high pressure treatment? Buy used? Look through 
one of the weekly advertisers. Which I have done and founding stuff like
 
			Par 64 cans.
			frame and clamps
			4-head helicopters
			crank towers
			sunn dimmers  
                        super strobes....

	What does this mean??? Is it terminology I should/have to know??
What do some of you use? What would a minimal lighting setup go for? Can
they be added to later? With out a "light-man" what is the best way of
controlling? ...lotta questions!

	All input is helpful and greatly appreciated.

				thanks
					Michael	
 



    
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2317.1IMTDEV::COOPERStep UP to the RACK !Fri Sep 06 1991 18:54145
I'm just learning now...  I can tell you some stuff...Maybe not the best info,
but we've just recently started hooking up our light show.  I'll pick apart your
list:

>			Par 64 cans.

Par 64 cans are generally 1500wt lights.  They are the industry standard (i.e. -
what you see at your typical rock concert (by the dozens!).  I don't know what 
PAR means, but we currently have PAR 46's and 56's and some 64's.  
PAR 46's are 150wt lights that you can replace cheaply ($3 at your hardware 
store).  PAR 56's are 300wt that look like 120v car headlights.  These bulbs 
cost you $30+ EACH (Yeowwwch!).  All these cans have "holders" for your gels and 
frames.   TO give you an idea, 1 new PAR64 can will cost you at least $70...
then you have to get the 1500wt light bulb for it...Another $40...

Gels are clear_but_colored plastic "films" if you will.  You put them in a 
"frame" and slap 'em on your lights for color effects.   I suppose you could be
cheesy and duct tape the stuff up but...  Gel stuff is cheap.  Buy it by the 
sheet. A 3x4' sheet of red gel stuff cost me $3, the frames are about $3 ea.

>			frame and clamps

See above about frames.  Clamps screw onto your lights so you can attach 
them to bars (like you might hang from the back of the stage).  We use 
Chainlink fence top rail stuff.  :)

>			4-head helicopters

DISCO ALERT !  :)   Ya know,  four spots that whirl around driven by a motor.
All you need is an Indian Headress and sing "Yyyyyy MCA..."  Wagagaga.  Sorry.

			crank towers

Utter crap for big lighting systems.  They are big tripods that you mount
a few light to, then crank to elevate.  Could be just what you need though.
I dunno...

			sunn dimmers  

Dimmer packs - The big bucks.  It's a big nasty box with a control input
(like a mic cord) and a bunch of light sockets.  We have some 4 channel
SunnPacks.  Each channel has two plugs.  600 wts per channel max - we 
constantly blow fuses inside them - what a PAIN !  Sunn sez that we CAN 
run one PAR 64 per channel...(thats a 1500wt light). A 4 channel dimmer 
pack can cost upwards (WAyyyyy upwards) of $3-400 EACH for these cheesy Sunns.
The ETA dimmers can be more than a grand ea, but are tough and have more 
"channels".  Mega bucks in dimmers.

                        super strobes....

Strobe lights...Ya know...  Maybe the better ones have a control input....
Disco crap...

Some things you left out (and someof my favs!):

- "RAIN" lights

a series of small power narrow spots (or pin spots) FIXED along a rod or block
that generate a "fan" effect.  Mount these babies at the base of your drum 
riser, or behind him and generate some smoke.  Turn them on and you get a halo 
type effect...  Very bitchin... bitchin' indeed.

- Smoke

Gotta have.  Oil based Smoke machines run about $300, and are really nifty to
go with a light show.  Gives the lights a laser effect, the way the beams cut 
thru.  oil base makes light smoke - or a cloud.  Freon/Co2 based smoke makes
a heavy fog - both have their uses...You can also take an old styro cooler
and fill it with dry ice and blow oil smoke thru it, or EVEN just use dry ice for
heavy smoke.

- Controller

I don't know a lot about these, but I've seen a ZILLION controller boards
that look like ours - 16channel Sunn Spot mixer.  Seems pretty standard.
Foot controllers (step as you go) are also popular for small shows.  
You can get MIDI controlled light shows too.  The Sunn board we have 
is programmable so you can set up "scenes".  Pretty decent.

- Tech

Get a tech.  Light shows are a BITCH !  You gotta set 'em up, maintain them,
and a tech should be easy to find (your neighbors kid ?? ;).



Basically your light show consists of back lights, effect lights
and front lights...  Although you may be able to get away with a pair
of crank towers and (8) 56's for side lighting, if you play a big place, 
it'll look silly, IMHO.

If you have three front men, hang three 64's out in front of your stage.
This is your front lighting.  If someone is singing, put a light on 'em.
Same for solos etc...

Take a bunch (as many as you can afford) and hang 'em from the back stage 
wall.  Stuff with all the cool color gels you have, but match them to your
dimmer channels.

For effects, use rain lights above or below you drummer in a fan pattern.
Take a couple of 56's and clamp to the edge of your drum riser pointing up
at the drummer (make him sweat a little ;).

Here's what I think would be neet.  Ummm, keep in mind I play in a metal
band, and metal clubs like cool light shows.  (RutRoh, here comes the poseur
in me ;).  These shows are big bucks!

- (24) PAR64's across the back of the stage with at least six colors

- (4) PAR 56's arranged in a square around the drum kit pointing up at him.
   use bright colors.

- (12) Rain lights - You turn 'em on or off, no dimming.  In a fan across the
  front of the riser or right behind the drummer.  Turn 'em on liberally - 
  for effect.

- (3) PAR 64 front lights out in front (as spots - no gels, or maybe  
   yellow/pink).  (We have three out front in our band, so...)

- (1) Oil based smoker on the floor behind drum riser

- (1) Freon based (cold) smoker in the ceiling - makes the smoke stream down,
    cuz it's cold...

- (?)Tri-cage clamping bars - bolt your lights to them for easy moving and 
  setting up.  Bolt your dimmers to the tri-frames.

-  Electrical snakes and control snake(s).

Now, thats what I'd *like* to have eventually.

What is working for us is:

A grand total of 30 lights, PAR 46s, 56's and 64s.  Dimmers, home_made
rains, a ton of extention cords, a ton of mic cables, a few lengths
of chainlink toprail, a 16 channel controller and a bunch of duct 
tape.

We play where a lot of 'road whore' bands play, and our show looks puny 
compared to most...But it's getting better...  Takes at least 1.5 
hours to set up...And something is always blowing up. Ack!

Buy this stuff used, but keep in mind, blown bulbs WILL COST YOU BIG !

Hope this helps... Boy, you sure hit a tickle spot with me today !
2317.2HAVASU::HEISERstep into my grooveFri Sep 06 1991 19:111
    sounds like a poseur note to me ;-)
2317.3IMTDEV::COOPERStep UP to the RACK !Fri Sep 06 1991 19:235
I can't beleive *all that* came outta me !

:)

jc (Major !)
2317.4light my waySTAR::ROBIEReturn To Zero,RTZTue Sep 10 1991 17:4317
    	
    Note 2317.1 by IMTDEV::COOPER
    
    Thanks jc, there is a lot of stuff here. 
    
    I was looking at some lights as of late and have come to the conclusion
    that we won't need much to get started. Maybe two stands with 4 or so
    PAR 46(thanks again for this info.) cans on each. Then have a foot 
    console controll the deal. 
    
    We have a controll freak guitars, who wants to do everything, so he'll
    take care of the lights for a while. 
    
    Do any of you other GB bands have lights?? I mean only a rockers
    replied.  
    					thanks
    						Michael
2317.5IMTDEV::COOPERStep UP to the RACK !Tue Sep 10 1991 19:038
46's are great !  They are cheap to replace the bulbs too.

Keep you eye in the want ads for a pair of trees, a bunch of lights,
a snake and a stomp-controller.  They are eveywhere.
56's hang nicely from trees too, and aren't so hot you get a tan...

BestOLuck,
jc
2317.6FREEBE::REAUMESIzzLE on SiXThu Sep 12 1991 17:2218
        I'm *real* happy with my N.S.I. NCM6200 lighting controller
    and ND4600 dim-packs. The system is real powerful and easy to set-up.
    The controller is programmable with 16 pages holding 8 scenes in each
    page. There are also 8 programmable flash scenes, 3 thirty-two step
    chase sequences, and one scene chase (chases through all 8 scenes in
    the current page). It connects with microphone cords, we use red ones
    for the lights. And the controller is phantom powered from the dimmers
    so all you have to do there is the cord. This system is much easier to
    set up than our old rack mount monster dimmer that only uses 220 volts.
    Each dimmer gets its AC power from any standard outlet. There is no 
    noise generated into the audio, thanks to the filtereing built into the
    packs. We're running one 500watt PAR 64 per channel and there's no
    problem. N.S.I. (Nova) makes larger capacity dim packs if you need
    them. The compnay was started by the same people that did the Sunn
    lighting systems, but left the company to make more high-end style
    lighting equipment.
    
    							-John R-
2317.7Light: wave or particle?LUNER::KELLYJThink for yourselfMon Jul 27 1992 08:0217
    So...
    
    ...what's new in lighting for small bands?  I play in a four piece
    country band, meaning we play in tiny places with non-existent lighting
    systems.  We need some photons!
    
    I saw a band recently that had a Stagecraft system, consisting of 
    four lamps in a single box about the size of a loaf of bread on
    tripods. One per side.  A foot controller that selected individual 
    colors or master on/off...vary basic.  This system reputedly costs
    about $600 new.  I wasn't that impressed by the results, but I think
    my expectations are too high.
    
    I heard or saw that Peavey makes a small system.  Info?
    
    We don't have a lighting tech (or a sound engineer), so compactness and
    simplicity are key requirements.
2317.8RICKS::ROSTEvil twin of Billy Ray CyrusMon Jul 27 1992 08:1014
    Re: .7
    
    The Peavey system is similar to what you described, probably costs
    about the same.  I think the Peavey allows a couple of presets as well
    as manual control.  Dunno what your expectations were, but with small
    bulbs like those units use, you are not going to get the intensity of
    the big rigs.  
    
    Sunn makes a line of relatively inexpensive systems, including units
    with MIDI control (not much use to a C&W band, maybe, but to a band
    using sequences it's a cool idea).  Fender dealers can get you the Sunn
    stuff.
    
                                                Brian