Conference napalm::guitar

    I don't know if it's the hour, the booze or what but it is often the
    case that the energy level at gigs goes from 1 to 11 very quickly.
    
    My own theory is that it's really "reading the crowd".  You hit the
    right buttons and a dead party can come alive.

Tom,

I've definately noticed this - especially when trying to figure out our
set list order...  Liek where to put your killer tunes, and where to put 
the so-so stuff.  It's tuff.  Some nights some sets work, then the next 
night...

Wished I had the end-all answer, and I wish I could read peoples minds.

jc

    I've seen *EXACTLY* the same thing happen time & time again...the other
    phenomenon is the night when you can't be bothered going out to gig,
    you're still hating the thought when setting up,and almost invariably
    it turns out to be a great gig.
    	I've also played some gigs when we're sticking to a set-list,the
    crowd is noisy and not getting into it,so we reach a point where we say
    F*** it,and start pleasing ourselves what we play,sometimes jamming on
    numbers we've never played together,and the crowd starts listening and
    going crazy.
    	It *HAS* to be the audience picking up the vibes of our enthusiasm,
    no other explanation.If you're enjoying playing,it rubs off.
    

Hmmm...  I've noticed the "other" phenominon too...

I recall one gig recently where we had nothing but trouble - from 
blowing fuses in the dimmer packs, to feedback problems to broken
strings etc...

I'm sitting at the bar before we go on with this "F**kit, I ain't playin'
this place anymore" attitude (I mean a REAL attitude problem - I was pissed
off and bitchy!)...  And we went on anyway (like I'd really NOT play...), 
and the crowd goes nutty.  I mean you're really having a hot night.
Anyone ever notice the same with themselves ?

No way to explain it unless I play better when I'm pissed...
Strange ?  Yes, but no stranger than a lot of things...

    Two observations:
    
    	1) the phenomenon people are describing is real,.. If the crowd
    	   senses that you are having fun,. they will start to have fun.
    	   If they sense that you are bummin'.... :-/
    
    	2) The "I play well even though I am pissed,.. I don't understand"
    	   phenomonon is a weird one,. but one that I personally have
    experienced. Recently,.. while working oin the lead guitar track for
    one of our singer's originals, I notcied it. I had done about 20 takes
    on the thing and just couldn't get happy about any of them. Its kind
    of a raunchy tune so after a while the volume was getting perhaps
    a wee bit out of contro l :-),.. so the wife comes down and tells me
    to quiet down. Well,.. having her standing there "down" on what
    I was doing and being already fustrated from having not gotten this
    things done in 20 takes got me PISSED. I yelled at her (taking out
    some of the fustration that she did not create) ,.. slammed the
    basement door,.. and proceeded to try and calm down enough to start
    playing again. Well,.. I didn't wait all that long,.. I started the
    next take with a definte chip on my shoulder and guess what,..Thats
    right,.. that becans ethe keeper :-) Its strange,.. but attitude is
    an important part of how you approach the instrument, aqnd defintely
    affects the end result (ie your sound). For certain songs/moods/crowds/
    phases of the moon/whatever,.. it defintely helps to be pissed :-) ???
    
    	Anyway,.. believe it if you need it
    
    							/Bill
    

I don't know if it always helps to be a little irratated all the time, but
I must admit, there are times when I just simply, 'gots the blues' and
I'd have a great night..

another thing is when I'm sick...  I recall playing with teh flu a few
times..  some of the best playing I did was those nights.

Crowds:  Strange beasts, never figure em out..

\

    Personally, I prefer to be exhausted...like doing a gig after bicycling
    all day.  When I'm angry I just play obnoxiously.
    
    							Brian

    Strange, when I'm angry I play my best. We were playing a gig last
    year and the PA died 2/3 of the way through the first set, just when 
    the crowd was beginning to get into it. After we got it fixed, it 
    kept dying intermittently the rest of the night. Needless to say,
    I was intensely angry. And the rest of the band was blown away by
    what I was playing. Not that I cared what they thought at that point.
    
    - Dave

    I play my best when I'm psyched.  Like, with lots of energy, etc.
    Otherwise, I just don't wanna be there!

Wow, you people get *angry* when you play out??? I must say that I have
nothing but fun when I'm in front of the crowd - playing out just washes
away anything bad that might have happened that day/week/month/year, and
just gives me a real high!

As far as energy levels go, it has *always* been like that, as far as I can
see. I think its a combination of alcohol and number of people. Most people
are more vocal and expressive (read: dancing) when a little buzzed. And the
more people in a place, the more the party atmosphere hits (places are usually
pretty dead when you go on at 9:00, but are pretty full by 11:00 or so, on
the weekends).

I write out the setlists for my band, and tailor it specifically to this
phenomenon. The first set is mostly "listening" songs; the second set starts
the same but builds towards more dance-oriented stuff; then the 'killer'
third set, where you whip out all those oldies you hate to play, but everyone 
will dance to ("Taking Care of Business", "What I Like About You", "Mony 
Mony", etc.). We also make the 3rd set really long (about 75 minutes), 
figuring that once we have them dancing, keep them up there! If its a 4-set 
night, the 3rd set won't be quite a long, and we'll start the 4th set the 
remainder of the dance stuff, but work a little backwards towards the end of 
the night, bringing them down a bit with a blues number or some slow songs.

alan

    Interesting discussion. I have to say that playing under adverse
    conditions brought out the best in me, too. One night I was so sick my
    wife had to drive me to the gig. Felt like sh!t but played better'n I
    ever did before (I have the tape to prove it). Other nights when
    everything went wrong and I was under a lot of pressure to get things
    working before show time (pandamonium, you know?) I also played great
    (relatively speaking, of course). Being really p!ssed off is good too.
    Obnoxious club owners (that narrows it down) that make you want to shove
    you guitar neck down their throats are great for having this effect
    on me.

.11

!!!  Yes !!!  Thats it !  Club owners torque me off, and light 
shows that don't work,  snake channels, missing speaker wire,
broken strings, out of tune sound checks...

One night I was pissed off cuz we forgot to bring the tape deck to
tape us (for Scary).  Naturally I smoked the neck of my guit - 
but no tape rolling (naturally).  :)

RE: Alan

But dood, you are NEVER unhappy !  I'm pissed off most of the time,
so I *have* to learn to work with it.  :)

jc (Who doesn't smoke often enough when he plays)

    
    	Yeah but... how about the audience reaction?
    
    	Do you go from "I can't wait to get outta here" to "shoot,
    	it's time to stop ALREADY?"
    
    	I'm just not going to judge a gig until it's time to turn
    	everything off.  All it takes is one group of people wanting
    	to dance to come in and the whole night turns around.
    
    	Tom
    

hmmmm.... I am suprised to see how many of you guys say that ANGER makes
 you play better. I'd say that it's definately the case for me as well.

One experience comes to mind. I was playing at a party. There was a formal band,
 but on various songs, 'guest musicians' like myself sat-in. I played almost
all night, trying to add something now and then, but mainly trying to avoid
any major boo-boo's. An approach that leads to serious mediocrity.

Toward the end of the night, we were doing a jam tune that I was really getting
into. I started a solo, at what seemed like a reasonable place, got into a
few notes, then, the sax player walked all over it. I was soo p|ssed that my
face must have turned three shades of red.

I let him finish his bars, then with reckless abandon, fired by my anger,
I layed into a solo full till. I suprised everybody in the place including 
myself! I was also fortunate enough to have it on tape. It still amazes me
to this day to listen to it. I don't think that I could reproduce it,
either technically, or in shear energy.

I think it really relates back to a 'I DON"T CARE WHAT ANYBODY THINKS, HERE GOES'
attitude. It frees the spirit to play very freely and naturally.
The anger provides a helpful boost of adrenelin, the attitude makes you take
risks.

On the subject of audience reaction getting better toward the end of ths night...
Well, bands get better toward the end of the night! The first few songs are
always rigid and ackward. The first set of any band usually is their worst.
The effect is not entirely a feature of the audience.

As the night goes on, ears get better as well. There is some physiological
change that occurs with time. It is easier to hear the subtilities after
listening for a while, especially if the sound is loud.

And as the band relaxes and loosens up, they gain energy, and technical
proficiency.

I know for myself, that it takes a while for my fingers to get limbered up,
and for my courage (or is it recklessness) to peak. It takes even longer
for my ears to tune in fully. My best playing and listening occurs at about
the 4 hour mark. Usually, by that time, everybody has gone home. The
rare occasions that I find a group of marathon musicians, seem to be the best.

I have a nephew that goes to bluegrass festivals, and plays almost non-stop
for an entire weekend, with an hour or two sleep here and there.
Thats committment, and it must have some rewards.

I have to agree with Alan's aproach to set design. It makes sense to me.
It is probably as important as how well you play.

Now all I have to do if figure out a way to be continously angry, and I'll
be all set. But, there has to be an easier way.

;^)

>Now all I have to do if figure out a way to be continously angry, and I'll
>be all set. But, there has to be an easier way.

I know the answer to how to be continuously angry:

Get married !!  Better yet, get married and bring thew spouse to all
your gigs !!

Wagagagagagaaaa...

Sorry.

jc (Realitvely newly-wed)

    
>Now all I have to do if figure out a way to be continously angry, and I'll
>be all set. But, there has to be an easier way.
    
    Well, you could down a gram of niacin - if that doesn't do it at least
    you'll be reducing your chloresterol count...and it's legal.
    

                   "The Smoker I Drink, The Player I Get!"           
    
        Don't usually get into these discussions as my general feeling is
    that people that work for DEC are professional DECies and NOT
    professional musicians, which is OK!, but usually leave alot to be 
    desired when it comes to discussing music in general!
        Don't get offensive, you can't have everything, and you get out of
    something EXACTLY what you put into it!
        Anyhow, I think this note is pretty funny, because music is
    basically someone expressing EMOTION through something called an
    instrument, which is quite a skill in and of itself, takes years of 
    suffering and practicing and dedication, but is well worth it, and if
    you give up absolutely everything else like a Social Life, Keeping Up 
    With The Jones, Working 9 to 5, and worrying about what other people
    are going to say, you could possibly even MAKE IT, in fact, it's done
    ALL THE TIME!
        So, the playing better when I'm pissed off thing, to me is absurd,
    if you can improvise at all, you just express however you feel at the
    time, happy, sad, angry, mad, lonely or whatever, makes NO DIFFERENCE!
        As far as audiences go, most of them only know what they like and 
    not too much about Music itself!
        The only comment I can make about Audience Response as far as Clubs
    go is it's called.........ALCOHOL!!!!!!!!!!!
        Chances are they wouldn't even stay if they didn't serve firewater,
    and could care less whether it's a damned D.J. or a Blues Band or a
    Rock Band or a Drum Machine, they just want to Dance, Drink and hope
    they can do the Horizontal Bop.
        Don't want to sound like a Daddy, which I am, but if you're gonna
    play CLUBS, have fun and like Joe Walsh said, "The Smoker I Drink, The
    Player I Get", just about covers it all when it comes to "CLUBS".
    
                                                 "MUSIC IS THE FORCE"
    
                                                      Storm'N.
                                                     

    Of all the interesting reading in this note I think the only real 
    sentiment that I agree with is (although only alluded too) the previous
    reply that (paraphrased) music is communication.  What are you
    communicating?  Emotion? Anger? Love? Stupidity?  Alcoholism?
    
    It all comes out in your music, and I absolutely agree with .-1
    when he said: 
    >>"basically someone expressing EMOTION through something called an
>>    instrument, which is quite a skill in and of itself, takes years of 
>>    suffering and practicing and dedication, but is well worth it, and if
    RIGHT! It is well worth it.  Two sentiments which I read in 
    interviews/articles by/about Dan Crary/Christopher Parkening - 
    	Crary - (btw, this is all paraphrased) - If you want to be a
    guitarist, you must first want to be a musician.  Music is the end
    result of what your going to be doing - and the desire to be 'cool'
    because you know two chords isn't enough.  Parkening - The desire
    to achieve excellence on the instrument ("beeee all you can beee")
    has to come from outside of commercial success - as the most
    successfull commercially aren't (normally/always/ever?) the 'best'
    players.  It has to come from the desire to be the 'best' musician
    that you can be.
    
    Gigs: alcohol?  Why? Why not just FIX?  It worked for Charlie Parker/
    Stan Getz/and a host of others... What? You think it's too dangerous?
    
    I think that in the case of booze, anger, etc... you're really saying
    that you're finally comfortable on stage and believe that you're
    playing is better because you're comfortable.  Ok. 
    
    I believe that great playing comes from having a high musical IQ, being
    ready to play (called PRACTICE), and finally having confidence - which,
    BTW, you can't get out of a bottle or a needle.  It seems to me that
    folks who use booze or drugs to play are doing their sound a
    disservice, although I understand using them to help you get UP to 
    be on stage yet again when you're already fried.  It's a tight rope
    you have to walk.  On the other hand, you could learn to meditate.
    

    I also agree that knowing your instrument/being confident on stage is 
    important in playing in public places.  Unlike the reply -.2, I wouldn't 
    insult the intelligence of the audience (maybe because I don't play in 
    bars).  People know what they like when they hear it, regardless of their 
    level of musical knowledge.  They can tell your uncomfortable as easily as
    they can tell your playing the same notes on the same area of the
    guitar neck.
    
    Mike

    
    re: .18 - I may be wrong but I don't think Norm (.17) meant that _he_
    needed ALCOHOL - he was talking about the _audience_.  He wrote about
    "audience response" and how many wouldn't even be there if it wasn't
    served.
    
    And I agree.  I didn't ask "what makes YOU play better" - I asked
    about audience reaction.  Certainly great playing makes an audience
    react (sometimes) and that was definitely a valid answer.
    
    But the truth is (to me), they're dancin' and partyin' up a storm
    mostly because they're buzzed-city.
    
    Tom
    

    Yes, I agree, this string is about the AUDIENCE's level of intoxication
    (and the musician's mental state), not about the muscian's level of
    intoxication.  (That was recently discussed elsewhere in this
    conference, by the way).
    
    
    I agree with the Norm's note (.17), with one SLIGHT exception:
    Any time anyone's ever said:
    "... you get out of something EXACTLY what you put into it!",
    					I have to object!
    
    I don't think anyone would ever voluntarily do anything that paid 
    0.00% interest!  If you don't get some payback from a relationship, 
    a course of instruction, a vacation, time/money/effort invested in
    mastering a musical instrument, then why bother?
    
    You'd be just as well off not to do it if there was no "reward",
    psychic or otherwise, in doing something you didn't HAVE to do.
    
    Pardon the philosophy discussion, but it's kind of basic to me, and
    when I head that expression it kind of sets me going.  No one would be
    in this file if there was not some greater reward in some wires, some
    wood, some switches and tubes, etc.  And that doesn't begin to take
    into account the entertainment of others.
    
    \Gary

    Hey, all this rationalizing is great but...

    I STILL PLAY BETTER UNDER PRESSURE AND ESPECIALLY IF I'M PISSED! OK?!

    
    re: .21 (Gary)
    
    I've read your reply a couple of times now and I'm not sure what
    your point is.  Could you clarify a bit further?
    
    I also have to disagree in part with the idea that you get out of
    something *exactly* what you put into it.  I think that what you 
    get out of something depends on what your relationship to "it" is.
    
    In human relationships, there are two personalities at work, and
    each has made some conscious (and a lot of UNconscious) agreements
    about who will give and receive what from whom.
    
    There is a similar kind of relationship between a musician and his/her
    audience - it's a complex situation with many influencing factors.
    
    In the case of getting angry and wailing the p*ss out of one's 
    guitar, though, I think a slightly different situation exists.
    If you're *really* angry, I'd think that you'd be pretty much 
    totally involved in mashing your fingers into the fretboard and
    raking that pick across the strings - with much less emphasis on
    any conscious relationship with the audience.
    
    In this case, you ARE getting out of the instrument what you put
    into it.  It's just you and the guitar, and since the guitar doesn't
    think for you, any sounds coming out of it are your ultimate res-
    ponsibility (oh no! ;-).
    
    To bring this back around to the topic....
    
    I think that we become more or less mindless when we're angry,
    we stop intellectualizing, and play what's in our heart.  Sometimes
    we're surprised when we hear what we feel coming out of that amp....
    
    guy

    >I think that we become more or less mindless when we're angry,
    >we stop intellectualizing, and play what's in our heart.

    Yes, that's it exactly! But I would simply add that inhibitions
    which are overcome by emotions are key to unleasing our creativity
    and expressing it.

 Emotion and intellect tend to be opposing forces. Successful creative
 acts need a balance between the two. People who tend to approach their art
 intellectually will improve it by adding more emotion (such as anger);
 people who tend to approach their art emotionally improve their art
 by adding intellect (understanding scales, chords etc). Audiences
 have different priorities and expectations regarding emotional impact or
 intellectual stimulation (biker bar and Berklee college).  Great art touches
 a large variety of people throughout the spectrum.  For example, Hendrix 
 stimulated the truly  emotionally oriented through his theatrics, guitar 
 burning etc., and stimulated the Jazz intellects through his innovative 
 rhythms/scales and merging of many musical styles. He grabbed most everyone 
 else because he merged the two opposing forces successfully.

 My 2 cents
 Dave

>>    >I think that we become more or less mindless when we're angry,
>>    >we stop intellectualizing, and play what's in our heart.

>>    Yes, that's it exactly! But I would simply add that inhibitions
>>    which are overcome by emotions are key to unleasing our creativity
>>    and expressing it.


Yup, I agree with both statements.

    re: .23  (Guy)
    
    >> I've read your reply a couple of times now and I'm not sure what
    >> your point is.  Could you clarify a bit further?
    
    There WAS no point.  :7)
    
    Actually my point is that: 
    "You only get out of XXXX what you put into it"
    is a dumb model!
    
    Why do something for which the return is ZERO!? 
    Would you put $100 into an account that returned $100 after a year?
    No way!
    
    Would you take up guitar if there wasn't some REWARD that was greater
    than the effort invested!?
    
    >> I also have to disagree in part with the idea that you get out of
    >> something *exactly* what you put into it.  
    
    Don't bother disagreeing with it, it wasn't me who said it!
    I was disagreeing with it too!  I always disagree with that statement.
    I can't help it.   :7)
    
    \Gary

    
    re:  last few
    
    Yes, yes, yes, and, ah...yes...;-)
    
    re: .27
    
    No! ;-)
    
    I wouldn't invest in that account....and I wouldn't play the 
    guitar without the (albeit somewhat intangible) rewards.
    
    I wasn't disagreeing with you - I knew that you were disargreeing
    with the statement....:^� ;-)
    
    guy