Conference napalm::guitar

     I like open back cabs, the closed back cabs always seem muffled
     to me.
    
     JT

Well, to me it seems like I prefer an open back, but my mind could be changed
depending upon the equipment and type of gig itself. My opinion is that all 
else being equal (quality of the equipment), an open back will disperse the 
sound making it sound more ubiquitous. I think in a club setting that's 
important. Obviously, not that you can't hear a closed back, but maybe 
something is lost to the other band members. There's many ways around this 
such as miking thru the PA, monitors and whatall so it's no big deal. 

For me, and considering the music I'd play (R&B) were I to return to playing 
in a band, I'm not sure I'd mike anything but vocals. I think I'd go for the 
WYSIWYG effect. And for me, that'd be my axe, a chord, and my Fender "the Twin".   
 

"sakman"

      If my ears are correct, a closed cabinet seems to have a little more
    of a compressed sound than an open back. It's probably because you get 
    less cone movement - because of the air resistance of the cab.
      Also, you get different resonances from the cabinet it self. You 
    probably need the more power to get the same cone movement on them. 
    On the open-backs, the cab is mostly untuned. You get most of your tone 
    from the speaker itself - with little help from the cab.
    
    Please correct me if I'm wrong!
    
    /John

Well is your closed cab ported or not???

I use two rivera 2 X 12 cabs that are closed back but are ported on the front.
I like 'em...

dbii

From my experience, here are some observations I've made:

	- Open back cabs attenuate some of the lower frequencies,
	  which results in a brighter sound. Thats why closed back
	  cabs seem to have more mid-to-low punch.

	- Closed back cabs require more wattage to achieve the
	  same sound pressure level as open backs, but they also
	  project the sound better.

	- There is more speaker cone movement in open back cabs.

	- Open back cabs are fine for small-to-medium sized rooms,
	  Closed back cabs do a better job in large rooms.

	- You can blend your sound by using both open and closed
	  cabs.  I've discovered that I prefer the sound qualities
	  produced by this technique.  It's kind of a best-of-both-
	  worlds approach.

	- There's a third category of cabs not yet discussed here:
	  ported cabs, and if we really wanted to get esoteric, we
          could discuss the sound differences between front-loaded
          and rear-loaded cabs!

    re: .4
    
    Dave,
    	I picked up a Fender 2x12" cab that after taking the back off to
    see what it was loaded with (turned out to be Pyle drivers) I noticed
    that someone had put one port for each driver! So I stuffed fiberglass
    into the ports and taped the internal side of the port with tape so
    nothing comes through the ports. OK, not bad sounding and a little less
    bottom end (my amp is bottom heavy anyway so this was a good fix). I
    have noticed that certain notes can sustain almost forever with my open
    back combo, while the closed back 4x12", or this 2x12" cabinet need more
    "ummmph" to get that controlled feedback I can achieve easily with
    an open back. This is using a Strat with some compression through a
    Mesa head. My Peavey MX gets this controlled feedback alot easier
    through a single EVM-12", **BUT** if I open the back on the 2x12" maybe
    it'll be easier to get this controlled feedback than closing it up.
    
    I'll try it when I get home today.
    
    	Who knows...  maybe I'll get lucky?  ;^)
    
    
    		Rock on,
    			Fred (who's been playing around with cabinets
                              alot this week).

    Closed back all the way for me. I have an old small Fender Bassman 2x12
    cab (loaded with JBL D120) on my 50w Marshall and to my ears, this is
    IT.

    But really, it all depends on what you're doing with the amp. I'm
    playing at home and I like the big round sound I get with this combe.
    Playing with other instruments is a whole nuther thing. Too much bottom
    on your guitar's sound disappears into the other instruments. I think
    open backs in general are probably more effective in band situations.
    More energy goes into the range of frequencies where your guitar cuts
    though.
    
    As a side bar: Back in '69 and '70 I caught the Allman Bros at some
    local clubs. Duane and Dicky used Marshall stacks loaded with JBLs with
    the backs removed. They (the band, that is) had a GREAT sound. Perfectly
    balanced.
    

    
    
    
    	re -1......Duane and Dickey at some local bar.......geeze
    		if I could only have been there....

       Well, I took the rig on it's first gig. While having some second
    thoughts on whether to take my old faithful PV-MX along "just in case"
    I went Boogie alone with my Altec loaded Fender 2x12" cabinet with its
    back completely removed without the speaker divider, no ports (not that
    it would have mattered anyway in an open back) and I removed the fiberglass
    insulation too. It actually looked kinda funny from the back, BUT the bottom
    line here is "how did it sound".
       IMHO, it was very successful. I got the clean and tight low end I 
    like with my Strat and got a very nice overdriven tone too in the lead
    channel without sounding like a chainsaw. Very smooth and dirty at the
    same time. I was very happy with it to say the least. Oh yeah, I was
    able to get the controlled feedback NO PROBLEM too. The band does this
    tune from Gary Moore called "Still Got The Blues (for you)" and at the
    end I play the B string down to an open "B", then use my whammy to bring it
    down to an "A" where I get the string to oscillate and just hang there
    until I'm ready to quit it. I told the guys in the band not to expect
    that to happen with this rig, but it worked! I'm very pleased with this 
    rig.   Thanks Rick!  :)   
    
    				Rock on,
    					Fred (one happy camper)
    

    The physics of the matter is that closed, ported cabs are designed to
    provide better bass response and *reduce* the amount of cone movement. 
    This is why they are used on bass cabs, of course, and they can be
    useful for guitar (check out Danny Weber's commnets in the Boogie MkIV
    note).
    
    I have used both open and closed back cabs and there's no doubt that
    the closed cabs for *guitar* give a thicker, "heavier" tone.  I like
    it, but open backs are OK, too.  They just sound different.
    
    As far as controlled feedback goes, I would expect the open back to be
    preferable since the sound is more dispersed close to the amp (get 20
    feet away and dispersion is proabbly about the same), which means you
    may not need to stand right in the line of fire to get the feedback.
    
    Mesa has been selling "half-open" cabs for a few years, where there are
    *two* panels on the back of their 2-12 and 4-12 cabs, so you can have
    the upper (tilted) half running open back and the bottom closed, sort
    of like the stack setup Danny mentions in his note.
    
    							Brian

    
    
    
    	Yep, I don't know dick about the physics, Rosty, but I do know that
    all that stuff about theile ports works.  I just finished my ultimate
    bass cab!!  It's a 2x15 loaded with Gauss speakers, 3/4 ply, 40" tall,
    24 wide, 15 deep, 3" foam baffle and 2 3x6" theile ports at the bottom
    (they started out at 8" but I got a little freq distortion going so I
    trimmed them).  I run my SVT into this cab and I can get lots of clean
    low end with no distortion.  It's going to be a ball buster to lug,
    but: a. I guess if I want that sound, the price I pay is the lug and b.
    I can't afford one of those 7 or 8 hundred dollar hartke jobs.
    
    	For guitar, I still like the open back, Fender style cabs, seems to
    be a little more twangy, but I struggle to get a Marshall type sound
    with those amps.
    
    
    Gree Vee King
    

    re: Grevies new cab
    
    It probably weighs less then the SVT! (or a Twin...)
    
    ;^)

    re: last
    -probably weighs less than a puke-filled rack too! 8^)
    
    -Bill

    
    
    	Hmmm.. so *THAT'S* what a hernia feels like....  [;^)

    Actually, open cabinets are best when they're filled with liquor.
    Closed cabinets work well when you're hiding from her husband.
    

    Both types of cabinets have their strengths and weaknesses. The
    closed-back cabinets get more bottom end for a given size and being
    directional, give somewhat more control. I like their sound when
    playing with a small jazz group. With a louder band, I prefer the
    cutting power of an open back: extra  bass response often muddies
    things up.  Other band members tell me that they can hear me better: I
    think that this is mostly due to the sound bouncing out the back.
    
    I feel that a single 12" speaker in an open back cabinet lacks bass.  I
    much prefer a 15" or 2-12" for this type of cabinet, but the latter is
    too heavy for me and the former is hard to find. Boogie used to make
    15's available in both extension cabinets and combo's, but stopped some
    years ago due to lack of demand. The 15" combo weighed over a hundred
    pounds (almost as much as a Twin :-)).  Rather than fight it, I usually
    use a closed back amp when I need small size and light weight. 
    
    The Boogie "Half Back" cabinets seem like a good idea if you want both
    extended low end and cutting power. My open/closed Boogie stack has one
    advantage, though--I can always take just one of the bottoms when I
    need to travel light.
    
      
    Danny W.
    
    
    

    While we're at it,,,
    
    I'd say it all depends on the style you play most. There's
    clearly a night and day difference.
    
    For general type stuff, an open back cab is usually fine.
    
    In otherwords, I feel they provide good reinforcement for a variety of
    styles.   I use a couple of Yamaha open back combos (one with 2-12s, 
    the other with 1)
    
    but for the real heavy stuff, I've always preferred a closed back cab.
    Wasn't nothing quite like the autority of my V4 head, with the two
    4-12 cabs stacked up..  Moving it was an issue though..
    
    I've always thought the perfect set up would be the head of
    yer choice, with switchable cabs.  Closed and Opened.  Never
    got to that point. 

    On of the best sounds I  have gotten was when I used two Marshall 50W
    open back 2x12 combos and two angled 4x12 closed back cabinets with a
    stereo chorus on real slow all the time. the open backed 2x12s rip with
    alot of mids and highs and the closed back 4x12 make the whole sound
    warmer and help the rig to project better in big halls. 
    
    I would definitely recommend a 50W combo with a angled 4X12 over a
    stack.
    
    cf