Conference napalm::guitar

RE: .0

I've found that most guitar amps tend to make an acoustice guitar
sound like an electric guitar.  My theory is that it's the way that
they're EQed.  You might find that a cheaper alternative to the
Trace Elliot is to get a small PA amp.  PA's seem to be EQed flatter.
I play my acoustic with thinline (under the bridge saddle) pickup
through an old Peavey 4-channel 100-watt PA head (with a 2x10 cabinet)
and think it sounds pretty decent.

-Hal Laurent

    Guitar amps are EQed to give a lot of high end boost to try to create
    something approaching flat response.  Your average 12" only gets up to
    5-6KHz which is like AM radio freq response.  A bass amp with a 15"
    might only get to 3KHz, that's like a telephone channel!
    
    If you check the instructions for the Scholz Rockmodules, they
    recommend running them either into a guitar amp and speakers *or* a
    power amp with PA speakers, but *not* a power amp and guitar speakers
    because there isn't enough high end.
    
    The lousy high end response is what screws up the guitar amps, they are
    boosting the highs so much to try to get something out of the drivers
    that the tone gets very strident.  The approach in past acoustic guitar
    amps from Peavey, and I expect in the Trace, is to use a full-range
    driver system to get a more transparent sound.  
    
    							Brian

	I guess the Trace Elliot amps were intended for the emerging
    acoustic-electric market. I haven't heard one, but I noticed that
    Daddy's Junky Music is now carrying them, as well as the Trace Elliot
    bass amps. One big selling point of the Trace Elliot acoustic amp is
    that besides the fact that they (supposedly) sound great, they are 
    also very portable. Galien Krueger also makes a small portable amp
    intended for acoustic guitars *and* vocals. It has a vocal channel
    with a balanced input, and a guitar channel. These aren't cheap
    either, but I'm sure they are less expensive than the Trace Elliot.
    

	I tried the Peavey amp which is designed for acoustics and
    electric guitar. I think it was a "Reno" or "Nashville" model. I was 
    very impressed with the acoustic channel. At the time I was buying a 
    Dean Markley "Pro-mag" pickup and demoed the pickup through the Peavey. 
    The Pro Mag sounded great with absolutely no hum when played through 
    the Peavey. Even with the guitar held with the pickup directly in front 
    of the speakers there was no hum. I bought the pickup and have found that 
    it buzzes ad nauseum through my PA system at home. I still can't figure 
    out why the Peavey was so quiet considering the Pro Mag is a single coil 
    magnetic pickup. I have since bought a Dean Markley ZH7 (zero hum) model 
    which is a dual coil humbucking pickup. This pickup has about the same 
    sound as the Pro Mag without the hum. 

	The ZH7 produces a nice natural sound when played through my
    PA system, but it helps if I EQ it a bit. I've tried playing the ZH7
    and the Pro Mag through the clean channel of my Fender "The Twin" but
    they always sound like electric guitar pickups through guitar amps. 
    Flat frequency response is definately required for getting a nice natural 
    acoustic sound. My acoustic pickups work pretty well through my Mesa
    Boogie studio preamp, if I use the EQ and boost the high-end. Acoustics
    need a bright high end to get a glittery sound.

	Anyone ever try running an acoustic guitar pickup into something
    like a Countryman direct box, and then into a PA system. The nice thing 
    about using a di box is that you plug the (relatively short) cable from
    your pickup into the di and then run any length balanced cable you
    want into your mixer.
    
    Mark
    

    Re: direct boxes
    
    Mark, I've done this when doing sound at a coffeehouse.  The sound
    varies in quality depending on the type of pickup.  The direct boxes I
    have access to are passive, so they will have the same type of loading
    (impedance) problems you would get with a typical guitar amp, that is
    loss of the low bass and weak signal.  However, with some pickups it
    has worked wonderfully.  
    
    It might seem odd using a direct in a situation where the instruments
    are unamplified, but many players are getting used to the consistency
    of the sound with pickups.  They can move around and not have to worry
    about getting off the mike.  
    
    My preference is still for a good microphone but the difference can be
    slight.  We tape many of the shows for radio broadcast and having a
    pickup on the guitar guarantees a nice solid signal to tape.
    
    						Brian

    Ironically, I get the best sound out of my acoustic when I run it
    through my guitar amp with less high-end. I normally run my electric
    through an effects box with a compressor that slightly boosts the punch
    in the high end (my amp is a Seymour-Duncan 100W combo with one 12).
    My acoustic is a Martin HD-28 with a thinline, and I also use the
    Fishman pre-amp to boost the signal.
    
    For convenience when performing, I like to run both guitars into the
    same effects unit and into the S-D. If I leave the compression on the
    acoustic sounds too bright, but if I turn it off I get a nice sound
    that's pretty suitable for both flat and finger picking. I can improve
    it even more if I fool around with the EQ on the amp some, but I
    usually don't bother.
    
    To me, the acoustic sounds flat when played through the PA system. But
    I'm not that much of a purist, maybe I've just gotten used to an
    "electrified acoustic" sound.
    
    - Ram

    Two years later...
    
    The violinist in my last band bought one of the Trace amps earlier this
    year after years of running through regular electric guitar amps.  The
    difference is unbelievable.  The sound is very natural (so much so that
    when we recorded our CD, the engineer miked the amp rather than taking
    the pickup direct!) and super loud.  The notch filters get rid of
    feedback honks and the on-board (Alesis?) reverb sounds nice and
    smooth.  He bought the mono 50 watt 2-speaker model, and still paid
    about $800 for it...not cheap!
    
    							Brian