Conference napalm::guitar

    
    
    Hi Dave,
    
    Well here are a few comments, stay away from the 60's Strat re-issues,
    I have a few nits about them....
    
    1. I hate the varnish on the neck. (Sticky city)
    2. The pickups leave a lot to be desired. (this is why my friend is
    hopefully buying yours!)
    3. It is a lot of money for something that is basically old technology,
       I mean if you want a relic buy a PDP-8, if you want processing power
       buy something new.
    
    As for re-finishing, my friend is going to re-finish his 62 re-issue,
    because, it's not red, and all the fittings including the neck were
    bolted on when the finish was still damp.......result......
    
    take the neck off and watch as the body finish that has got stuck to
    the neck crack and flake away.
    
    We are going to prepare the body and then take it to our local car 
    repair place (they have ace sprayers) go through all the books and pick
    a colour....most good auto shops have paint mixing down to a fine art.
    
    JMHO.
    
    J.

you can refinish it yourself, if you take your time, and apply
a lot of clear laqure to seal it.  I did a 72 strat over in natrual,

I was pretty nice..

As far as replacement bodies and necks go

First off, you'll have to finish it anyway, as far as I know, Fender
wont sell a neck or a body finished, or with labels.. so if
you go that route, you'll still have to do the finish work...

I was going to buy a fender neck, but found it almost impossible
and pretty expensive.

Does Scheter still make Strat style boides ???

>You may have noticed I am trying to sell the DiMarzio's I fitted when new for 
>a more thinner traditional sound (FOR SALE/WANTED).
>
>a. Sell it and be dammned and get a new 50/60's re-issue
>   Are they better now, or is an '80's modified strat generally a better guitar?
>

Folks,

	Thanks to fellow guitarist Jason Flowers, I got to take home a 
complete pickup/scratchplate asembly from his friend's 62 re-issue strat with 
a view to doing a swop for my DiMarzio's.

The bad news is that I have decided not to swop...but here is my story...

I set up my amp and recorded both sounds so I could do a pre-test comparison.
( It took just four minutes to change from DM's to strat re-ssue P/U's).

Upon quickly fitting the re-issue strat scratchplate I noticed as expected, a
more glassy tubular sound. It had more bite and livelyness than my DM's but 
after a few minutes I started to analyse why it did not hit the spot for me.

Here are my points after analysis:

1. I noticed the action was lower with Fender P/U's and that the 3rd string 
was now buzzing badly and some of the other's were also doing so.

2. I raised the string bridge height to counteract the problem and wound the 
pickups down into the cavity.

3. the lower strings were going out of tune as I progressed up the neck

4. Clearly the increased magnetic field of the stock P/U's were pulling the 
strings down.

4. The stock P/U's had the tone I was after but the pull on the strings made 
the sound go "donk" rather than "dong" ....if you take my drift!

5. I THEN TRIED.......

close miking my accoustic sound to support my observations.

I recorded with the stock pickups, then no scratchplate at all, then with 
Dimarzio pickups. So in effect I was not using them, but monitoring the effect 
the pickups had on the accoustic sound of the string.

I was staggered when I listened to the tape. I kept a similar set of licks and 
single string tones for each recording so that I could do an accurate 
comparison. Sure enough, when listening accoustic, the string sound was going
"donk", when I recorded with the "nude wood" Fender ! the strings sustained 
and sounded bell like, with my DiMarzio's, I got a very similar sound ie no
cut off in sustain.

Boy!! did I learn some things about pickups last night !!  I knew all this 
stuff about mag fields etc. but this was the first opportunity to see HOW MUCH 
difference it made.

Jason warned me that his friends 62 strat sounded crap compared to his Charvel
with Seymor's onboard, but I thought it was just his preference for a thicker 
sound....wrong again..I have to agree with him but not for the pickups sound 
only the way it "strangles" the natural vibrations of the string.

BTW Thanks Fred (Abatelli) for all the good info you have sent me via E-mail
on the base topic, please feel free to copy it here if you want, cuz I think 
some of your experience may be helpful to others.

Dave

IMHO, about all the do right on those Vintage re-issue guitars are
the necks and bodies. The rest of the stuff (hardware/electronics)
are really cheezy. 

Alan Starr has a '57 reissue strat and he's already changed the
pickups to EMGs and put a new pickguard on it. 

    Dave,
    
    	I'd suggest you investigate Fender Lace Sensors,the ones with the
    gold lettering. These can be found in a new Fender Strat Plus,if you
    can find someone who will let you do a pickgaurd swap. I did a side
    by side compare of these pickups in a strat copy and a 62 Strat and
    the differences were minimal.... They also are not suppose to have 
    the magnetic pull of a regular strat pickup.... due to there design.
       If you need some literature on them let me know.....and I'll dig
    some out for you and send it......
    
    
    							Rick
    

    
    Hi DAve,
    
    
    SO dod you still want to seel your p/u's?
    
    J. (Seymour's rule)
    

re: -1
>    
>        I'd suggest you investigate Fender Lace Sensors,the ones with the
>    gold lettering. These can be found in a new Fender Strat Plus,if you
>    can find someone who will let you do a pickgaurd swap. I did a side
>    by side compare of these pickups in a strat copy and a 62 Strat and
>    the differences were minimal.... They also are not suppose to have 
>    the magnetic pull of a regular strat pickup.... due to there design.
>       If you need some literature on them let me know.....and I'll dig
>    some out for you and send them.


Thanks Rick, I am coming to that opinion myself (although swayed a little by 
the Seymor Duncan blurb about getting mean vintage tone with his product).

I have got a complete review of the Strat Ultra from the "Guitarist" UK mag
and it got me dribbling. 

The Lace Lensor P/U's retail for about 70 pounds ( =120 dollars) and so three
(or four as in the Ultra) would cost as much as a Fender Japan newie.

One pound equals approx 1.7 dollars.

I would be interested in the info on Laces tho'....thanks a bunch.

Dave Litten  Mail Stop SBP  F7.

Just a thought, no-one bothers on import duty for small items do they ? What if 
a US buddy offered to post Laces if I gave him/her dollars ? what would it cost 
me ? 

Dave

If you don't like the import tarrifs maybe you'd best write a letter
to your MP, no? Maybe they'll relax them and us yanks can sell up
a storm over there! Jeez - a 30% price cut for American guitars.

		;-) * 1000

>
>If you don't like the import tarrifs maybe you'd best write a letter
>to your MP, no? Maybe they'll relax them and us yanks can sell up
>a storm over there! Jeez - a 30% price cut for American guitars.


Wow !

Does that mean you can get Laces for about 50 pounds each or better ?

On a different tack.....I could keep my DM's and get one of these Theatronics
modules that do not need batteries.... anyone used these ?...how does it juice 
up your sound...more top ? ..more mid... more volume...better tone ?

Dave

    Hello,
    
    I have a couple of questions about a vintage Strat I could maybe buy
    from a friend. He gave it to me last weekend to check it and before I
    decide if I'm gonna buy it I want to know some details:
    
    Description:
    It's 1967 3 color sunburst strat with a rosewood neck. It has a three
    way tone control switch. the plastic back covering of the vibrato
    springs is missing. It has a 4 bolts neck mounting and the serial
    number on the mounting plate. There is no Fender logo on the headstock
    - might be that it was refinished some years ago.
    The body finish is original, althought with a few dents and scratches.
    
    Questions:
    Is it possible that a certain series has no logo?
    Can the logo be bought as a spare part?
    What is an average price for such an instrument? (with original case)
    
    
    thanx
    Sascha 
    

re: no logo

	Are you sure it's the original neck, not a replacement?
Most people don't refinish the headstock, so it's likely to be a replacement
neck. 

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Fender won't sell you a Fender decal for 
the headstock. After all, what would stop an unscrupulous person
from building clones and attempting to sell them as gen-u-ine Fenders. I
not even sure if Fender will sell you a replacement neck with a logo
on it.  I once heard that Fender *will*  sell you a neck with a logo,
if you send them the old neck that had a logo. Anyone know if this
is true?

re: Value

	This is another question, not an answer to yours, sorry. ;^)

	Is a Fender with a replacement neck (no logo) have the
same value as a guitar with the logo, or does it just become more or
less another clone. Also, what about the flip side: I put a fender logo
neck on a brand X body. Does it now have a lot more intrinsic value?

>	Is a Fender with a replacement neck (no logo) have the
>same value as a guitar with the logo, or does it just become more or
>less another clone. Also, what about the flip side: I put a fender logo
>neck on a brand X body. Does it now have a lot more intrinsic value?
    
    Aren't you the guy who told me you saw a *Stratocaster Bass* up on the
    wall in Daddy's once?
    
    						Brian

re:.-1

	Yeah, but that bass was priced like any other used 
Fender, not higher or lower.

    F.W.I.W.
    
    Don't worry about the rear cover plate for the trem..
    
    There about $4-5 at Stewart-Macs (mail order).
    
    --Jim

    thank you for the fast replies!
    
    tomorrow I'm gonna put the serial # in here - maybe someone can tell me
    if it's really a '67 strat. and tonight I'm gonna call my friend and
    try to find out if the neck was ever replaced - I doubt it because it
    looks like it's the same age as the guitar, but who knows!
    
    Maybe this interests anybody:
    
    yesterday evening I re-strung this '67 strat with 0.10's - same as I
    have on my 1990 American Standard Strat and tried to compare the sounds
    of the two. I found out that the new one sound more brilliant with much
    more higher frequencies than the vintage strat. Other than that I think
    that the necks are pretty much the same and the action and feel of the
    whole guitar are similar - although the american Standard has Jumbo
    frets. The only difference I realized is that I like the slides more on
    my new Strats maple fingerboard - but maybe Rosewood feels the same
    when new...I don't know.
    
    Question: Does it make sense to polish the frets (fingerboard?) of the
    '67? some of the frets looks pretty dark - no rust it just wasn't
    played for years.
    
    
    thanx
    sascha

    ...I called home and my girlfriend gave me the serial number:
    
    it's:   L54806
    
    Anybody around who has a list with serial numbers  and can tell me the
    year???
    
    thanx
    sascha

>    it's:   L54806

    sascha,

    That # puts it around 1964 or '65. I'll look it up tonight.

    RE Strat headstock logo:

    I'm restoring an '62 Strat that was also missing the headstock decal
    because someone had once (poorly) refinished the neck. I bought a
    replica of the decal used at that time from a vintage shop that
    discretely sold them to people that they were confident would put them
    on actual Fender instruments. They required that you send them photos of
    the unit showing sufficiant detail. The cost was $20. It was a decent
    copy.  Since then I've seen a classified advertisement selling Fender
    headstock decals in a recent guitar magazine. If you buy one, be sure
    that it's the same vintage as the guitar. Replacing the logo is a
    legitamate exercise in restoring an instrument.

    By the way, it sounds like a nice guitar.


    RE Fender Replacement Necks:
    
    Fender will sell unfinished necks to anyone. No finish, no decal.
    Finished decaled necks are sold through dealers only to be installed on
    Fender instruments, i.e. as a REPLACEMENT part. They trust the dealer to
    insure that that is the case.

    re.-1
    
    thank you very much for that intersting info - would be nice if you
    could look up the number!
    
    I'll be in here tomorrow - it's Goin' home time here in germany - 5.25
    pm - means practicing time :-)
    
    sascha

    Re: decals and logos
    
    Evidently, alot of decals are available, if you know where to order.
    Last year I had my 65-year-old Marshall and Wendell baby grand piano
    refinished/restored.  Marshall and Wendell wasn't exactly a high-volume
    produce or pianos, and they went out of business over thirty years ago.
    Nonetheless, the refinisher (he does this for a living) was able to
    order a new M & W logo for the lid over the keys.
    
    I asked him if he could order a Steinway sticker for it instead, but
    he wouldn't do it. ;^)
    
    Jim

    RE -.1
>>    produce or pianos, 
    
    	Oops, make that "producer of pianos"

    Re: Serial number L54806

    I checked a serial number list and all examples of Fenders with serial
    numbers beginning with L54--- have neck dates in 1964. Checking the neck
    date is the only way to be sure because there are many examples of
    wildly out-of-sequence numbers.

    Regarding the neck:
    
    The neck on a '64 Strat should have a small headstock, as opposed to the
    larger ones found on late '60s and most '70s necks.

    The neck date on a '64 neck should be in the form of an ink stamp, not
    written in pencil.

    Before '72 (?) the truss rod adjustment is located at the body end of
    the neck.

    On all rosewood fretboard Fenders made before '66, the dots look like a
    clay material, not pearloid.

    On necks made after '62, the dots at the 12th fret are on the in-side of
    the A and B strings as opposed to directly underneath. This applies to
    both rosewood and maple fretboards and is still true for reissue necks.
    That is, the dots at the 12th fret of a REAL '62 neck are differently
    spaced than on the reissue.

    Beginning in '63 the rosewood is thinner than on earlier necks. 

    Thanks!
    ...I couldn't wait for your answer and bought a book on the history of
    the stratocaster - the list in there says that L54806 was built between
    November and December 64  - I did not put off the neck until now - I'm
    a bit afraid to mess something up...but since the guitar was in one
    hand the last 20 years I'm sure that it's original. I has a small
    headstock, series2 Kluson tuners and all the other significant signs of
    a 64 model!
    
    By the way: The book says that the "L" series ("L"54806) is the last
    pre-CBS series of the strat. 
    
    
    sascha_has_2_strats_now_and_still_can't_play...

    
    
    	Well I finally went and brought a strat, (so now I have at least
    one guitar that doesn't need a full tool kit and an hour to change the
    strings on.....) and I have a few questions.......
    
    	Firstly although I brought it from a reputable shop on arriving
    home and stripping it I reckon the the has at some point in the past
    been stolen......
    
    	Why?
    
    Cos the end of the neck has been sanded, the sunburst body has been
    sprayed black (although it don't look like the body was prepared first
    so I may be able to get this off...)...infact every bit on it that
    would clearly identify it has been removed........
    
    	Well after checking in my book on dating Strats it would seem to
    be a 64'ish one, Kluson tuners on the neck, curved rosewood
    fingerboard, small headstock....and the pickups are dated 64......
    
    	Anyway all this is immaterial the real oddity is the profile on the
    back of the neck, its a little bit triangular and it fits my hand
    perfectly, the only other guitar in the shop that had the same profile
    neck was a 56' Strat (that they wanted 3 and half grand for)
    	
    	So does anybody know anything about neck profiles used on Strats
    and does anybody know of any other make of guitar that has this
    triangular profile neck........coz I like em.....
    
    
    J

    >Cos the end of the neck has been sanded, the sunburst body has been
    >sprayed black (although it don't look like the body was prepared first
    >so I may be able to get this off...)...infact every bit on it that
    >would clearly identify it has been removed........
    
   > 	Well after checking in my book on dating Strats it would seem to
   > be a 64'ish one, Kluson tuners on the neck, curved rosewood
   > fingerboard, small headstock....and the pickups are dated 64......
    
    HEY, MY '64 SUNBURST STRAT WAS STOLEN A FEW YEARS BACK!  I WANNA SEE
    THAT SUCKER...NOW!  I'M CALLIN' THE POLICE...NOW!
    
    
    NOT!
    
    Steve (scare ya...just a little, maybe...just for a second?)  8^)

    There's lots of variation in pre-CBS Strat necks, largely
    because they were hand shaped and thus at the whim of a particular
    craftsman.  There are some general rules: early 50's Strats have
    very fat clubby necks, getting smaller around '58, to very flat
    by the early 60's.  Then, around '63 they start getting fat again.
    The triangular profile starts up around '56, gets more pronounced for
    a couple of years, then typically disappers.  But as I said, these
    are general rules, and you can find a lot of variation in a given
    year.  The neck you describe sounds typical of a '58; lots of players
    consider this one of their favorite Fender necks.
    
    To be honest, I've never found a "modern" guitar with a similar neck.
    The closest are on some of the better vintage copies, like Tokai.
    
    /rick