Conference napalm::guitar

    
      So they finally got smart and put tubes in their preamp.
    
      I'll check this thing out when it hits the stores! ART may really
    be onto something here, but I'll reserve judgement till plug in time.
    
    							-B()()M-

    I just got the latest Musicians Friend cat. and this unit sits on the
    back cover. Looks like they welded a MIDIVerb III to their new TUBE
    preamp and are selling them as a package. No Price listed (I don't
    think there was at least)  I sure would like to try one though. My
    wifey tried to hide the M.F. cat. when it came in. She could see GTS
    in my eyes.
    
    Also Digitec seems to have announced a new line of effects and preamps. 
    They have ...
    		A new 2 tube (12AX7s) fully programable MIDI preamp on the
    		 market,
    	        And 3 new multieffect processors including
               	 Version 2 of the DSP-256 priced less than the
    		  original DSP-256 @ 369$ 
    		 And the new GSP-7  	
    
    		Of course the original DSP-256 is now on sale for 299$

 Get me my credit card, it's time to PARTY.

    Does anyone have the number for Musicians Friend so I can get a
    catalog?
    
    Thanks,
    		Byron

Musician's Friend has the list price for the SGX-2000 at $829.00. It says
to call for the selling price.

The number is 1-800-776-5173

alan

    $649.88
    
    Hmmm...
    
    jc (Who doesn't need any toys, but won't admit it !)

re: DR -X

I've been fooling with the one my singer/shythm player bought since he's 
still waiting to get his preamp and amp.

It's a ncie sounding unit.

I particularly like the exciter (enhancer). It offers the standard array of
chorus, flange, delay, reverb(s), low pass filter, expander, harmonic exciter,
3 band eq etc. As you build an effects chain some effects will not be available.


ex: if you include the chorus, the advanced reverbs are not available.

The eq is functional, but fairly lame IMHO

the chorus is nice
the flange is nice
the delays are adequate
the harmonic exciter is a real nice thing to have...
the reverbs seem pretty good, but I didn;t try that many of them

The unit is true stereo (ha ha) or does a pseudo mono-to-stereo conversion, but 
unlike some other units I've seen all it really does is run the dry input to
both outputs, doesn't even invert one.

This box does NOT have a wall bug (I like that) instead it uses an honest to
god line cord. However, there is a heat sink on the back panel that gets 
fairly warm, I guess that's the price you have to pay.

Setting up sounds is pretty easy, I didn't have the manual and I had my own
patches setup within 1/2 hour.

The display is a backlit LCD type, because it's difficult to read it from
an angle above or below, they built in a tilt adjustment for the lcd, this 
was a little harder to find out about.

I didn't fool with any of the midi features so I can't comment on that, but
I know it implements continous controllers so you could use an expression 
pedal with it.

Mixing the patches is a bit wierd. Instead of having a programmable level for
each effect, things like chorus and flange are hard wired into the output. You
can adjust the reverb output level in the program though. On the front panel
are three slide pots, line in level, line out level and mix. Mix goes from
totally dry to totally wet. you adjust your Chorus, flange etc. here.

So to use it live I'd have to set the mix once, and then hope it would be a
good mix for all patches...seems a bit risky to me. Obviously, like any other
midi multi-effects unit you're going to have to spend some time working out
all your patches.

Overall I rate the sound very high, I could see myself getting one of these to
leave laying around the studio.....:-)

dbii

    This unit is the SGE without the distortion/overdrive effects.
    
    I agree with all dbII's comments.  Very well put, Dave.
    
    Greg

    Hi folks !
    
    This beast was supposed to be available within 3 months after the
    Musikmesse Frankfurt (March). Was that marketing months or has anybody
    seen it in the shops already ???? At which price ????
    
    	thanks a lot in adavance
    
    		Richard

    Musician's Friend said they would have the SGX-2000 by August 7th, and
    the X-15 in stock by August 1st.  The last time I spoke with them, they
    had 137 back-ordered and ART is supposed to ship them 500 units.

    They mentioned that ART has repeatedly delayed the release date of the
    SGX.  Most of the local music stores that carry ART products said the
    same thing.   They had no idea when it would be available.

    I asked ART to send me literature on the SGX and it has the same info
    contained in the base note.

    -Matt-

    No suprises here...
    
    Musician's Friend said ART told them another 2 to 6 weeks on the
    SGX-2000.
    
               "ART...  setting a new standard in VaporWare"

My local dealer said he's been told 3-5 months before his come in.

vaporware indeed.


dbii

    ART now says early October.  They claim they've been "on-schedule" all
    along - theysay its Musician's Friend that misunderstood them.
    
    A Tech Support guy I spoke with said the reason for the delay is
    creaping functionality.  They wanted to add just a few more software
    features.  We all know how that goes...
    
    -Matt-

    Hi !
    
    Any news about the availability, now that it's November (nd that comes
    after October, right ?) ?
    
    	best regards
    
    		Richard

...still not shipping...

dbii

    A good friend of mine ordered one of these in April from Musician's
    Friend.  They called him last week and said they're in stock and to
    expect his within 2 weeks.
    
    Mike

Hi Mike !

Thanks. Will you ask your friend about his impression (once he has it) and let
me/us know about it ????   ;-) (Thanks in advance):

	Richard

    Just curious, but why would someone order something expensive like that
    without having ever heard or seen one?  I certainly wouldn't!  What if
    he gets it now, several months later, and hates it?
    
    Greg

    Because he's a young single fool that likes to waste his money and has
    nobody to harass when he does ;-)
    
    He said he's bringing it over as soon as he gets it, so I'll get the
    ask him why he didn't buy a JCM900 ;-)
    
    BTW - The JCM900's appear to be dropping in price after their initial
    demand.  The new AMS catalog has a PUBLISHED price of $699 for the
    4500.  The combos are dropping closer to $700 too.
    
    Mike

re -.18

>>  He said he's bringing it over as soon as he gets it, so I'll get the
>>  ask him why he didn't buy a JCM900 ;-)

Hey, this is a midi-rack-puke note!  There's no need to mention that 
inferior machine!  8^)   8^)

/marc

I ordered an Intellifex sight/sound unseen/unheard as it's the only way I'd 
ever see one....I did read about it, and call rocktron on the phone for a 
1/2 hour conversation with an engineer about what it would do.

I'd expect that if you liked the SGE-II, then the addition of a tube preamp
would only make it better. (the SGX-2000 is an SGE-II with a tube preamp as
I understand it).

dbii

>   Because he's a young single fool that likes to waste his money and has
>    nobody to harass when he does ;-)
 
    I was once like that, I think I remember it!  I think I *miss* it!!
    
    gh

      
    Re: .20 
        I've ordered w/o trying things a few times. I did that with the 
    Intellifex as well. But I already knew that dbii was happy with his
    and the Intellifex does exactly what I wanted it to do, and the main
    thing was the clarity and dynamic range.
        I also did this with the Kitty Hawk preamps after I had been using
    their tube heads for awhile (I tried those before I bought them). Of
    course the warehouse blowout was another sight-unseen instance. 
        Hopefully the SGX achieves what it is trying to do by being a 
    well integrated system. I don't think it will make me want to dump
    my TR/Intellifex combination. Oh yeah, my REXX was unseen/unheard 
    as well, but that was an impulse buy. Luckily the Rexx sounds great! 
    
    
    							-B()()M-   

>Hey, this is a midi-rack-puke note!  There's no need to mention that 
>inferior machine!  8^)   8^)
    
    marc, you better don the asbestos suit in here with comments like that
    ;-)

RE .23
>   marc, you better don the asbestos suit in here with comments like that
>   ;-)

I know I'm asking for it - But I'm unknown in this notes file and I wanted
to see if you people would flame an outsider. ;^)

/marc (who actually wants both worlds - TUBES + MIDI)

Have you ever heard of an ADA Mp1 ??

jc (The original MIDI Rack Puke)

RE .25
> Have you ever heard of an ADA Mp1 ??

Yes, I have one. I have an ART SGE also (although it's for sale).  I'm
interested to see how this SGX-2000 compares with the MP1.   

/marc

>Have you ever heard of an ADA Mp1 ??
    
    Sure, one rack slot, midi controllable preamp that makes a huge variety
    of giant mosquito tones.
    
    gh (the original drank-too-much-and-puked)

Your gonna puke again if you don't shaddap about Mp1s !!
Mine doesn't sound like a mosquito !

Anyway,  I also had a SGE and MP1 combo.  Kept the MP1 and bailed
the SGE.  So, do you hate yours too ??  Mine just DIDN'T agree with
the Mp1 at ALL...I'm very skeptical about the SGX2000...But I wanna
try one when they show up at Rice...

Now I use the Mp1 with a DSP128+, and they scream together - gotta have 
a noise reducer/gate though (ala Hush or something.

What do you use your Mp1 with ??
jc

>Anyway,  I also had a SGE and MP1 combo.  Kept the MP1 and bailed
>the SGE.  So, do you hate yours too ??  Mine just DIDN'T agree with
>the Mp1 at ALL...I'm very skeptical about the SGX2000...
    
    I had that same rig too.  I liked the SGE, but it didn't work very well
    with a seperate preamp (or an amp efx loop).  I think a good integrated
    preamp with the SGE has a lot of potential.  I didn't realize that the
    SGX-2000 was based on the SGE.
    
    I ended up selling the Mp-1 and got a Marshall.  Best move I ever made,
    my sound is 1000% better then before!  I still have the SGE but use it
    more for vocals then for guitar.  I don't find a need for a lot of
    effects these days...
    
    Greg
                         

    Coop, stop putting bad ideas in Marc's head.  He's cool ;-)

Gee Mike, you seemed to like my rig okay when you were up here last time...
What happened ??

jc (Who's had a BUNCH of Marshalls)

PS - It's a to each his own thing.  Amps and styles go together.

>Your gonna puke again if you don't shaddap about Mp1s !!
>Mine doesn't sound like a mosquito !
    
    Whadaya mean?!  When I saw HardBald at the Mine (shaft) 8^) last May,
    every time you kicked in that MP-1 for a lead, I got the sensation of
    being in the middle of a vast prehistortic swamp, with a giant 90'
    mosquito headed straight for me!!
    
    WAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Hm. Seems like a lot MP1 owners are looking for a new toy (like me).

Just wanted to add that I think the fx part is based on the concept of the SGE,
but it's a new 24-bit processor, that is also used in the newer models, like
MultiVerb Alpha, which got good reviews ie. for it's reverb quality.

BTW Dave, what does your friend have to pay ?

	Richard

RE .28

> Anyway,  I also had a SGE and MP1 combo.  Kept the MP1 and bailed
  the SGE.  So, do you hate yours too ??  Mine just DIDN'T agree with

I don't hate it.  I also have an old Yamaha SPX90 which has a LEVEL and
BALANCE controll for every preset.  This works great in my MP1's effects
loop.  I love the quality of the SPX's reverbs and delays but you can only
have one effect on at a time.  When I added the SGE, I had enough effects.

       I got around the SGE's level and balance problems somehow.  Heres
       how I ran my setup:

                     ---  SPX 90 <-- SGE <------
                     |                         |
                     |                         |
                     v                         ^
          (effects loop return)  MP1  (effects loop send)
                                  |
                            (mono output)
                                  |
                                  |
                                  v
                           preamp stompbox
                                  |
                                  |
                                  v
                              power amp
                                  |
                                  v
                              speakers

  All of my MP1 presets had the same output level.  I never had a problem
  with the SGE's levels.  When I played lead I would just kick in my 
  little stompbox preamp to boost my level.  This worked pretty good, but 
  I'm going to look for something with separate level and balance settings
  for each effect in a program.  

  /marc

    re: -?
    
    Sorry Coop, I have to agree with someone ...... I believe the SGX 2000
    is the result of a 500 MPH crash between a Multiverb Alpha and ART's
    new preamp, causing a fusing of the 2 units into 1. Personally I think
    it's a marketing thing because you can buy the same components
    seperately, they just packaged them together. It almost appears as
    though if you took your handy Sawall and cut the SGX 2000 horizontally
    you'd have an Alpha and a preamp.
    
    I personally didn't like the Multiverb Alpha. It had some really neet
    effects but I wasn't to happy with the sound quailty. I spent the extra
    25$ and got the Boss SE50. To be honest, I liked the sound quality from
    the QUADRAVERB alot better than the Alpha also. 
    
    OH Ya,.... With the BOSS you can control the mix and level control of
    each effect in the patch indididually and then set a master
    level........ PBBbbT PBBbbT ninnie poo, ninnie poo 8*)
    
    Brian

>Gee Mike, you seemed to like my rig okay when you were up here last time...
>What happened ??
    
    Well JC, I did like it, and I might even consider something like that
    someday if I can afford it.  It seems to work for you and that's what
    counts.
    
    Also, the JCM900 wasn't out then and I hadn't tried one. ;-)  If I were
    to go rack, I'd make sure I get a Marshall � stack first.  
    
    Mike

I'm sure your all  close to correct about the SGX2000.  I'm just none
to thrilled about ART's stuff in general.  I'll try one though...  Cuz
I'm a 'puke.

FWIW - I'm happy as hell with his Mp1 after 3 or so years of having it.
Once your get it tweaked - it's happenin' !

However, I thought about racking a pair of Marshalls with a DSP or QV for
a practice rig... Nice idea eh ??

jc

re: -one of those last ones...

comparing a quadraverb  to an alpha is akin to comparing a volkswagon bug and
a BMW. IMHO of course..


dbii who is falling back in love with the rivera...NEW RACK TIME!

RE: dbii
               
>>comparing a quadraverb  to an alpha is akin to comparing a volkswagon bug and
>>a BMW. IMHO of course..

    I agree 100%, but the Alpha is only $75 less than the Quad. Given the
    quality difference I can't understand spending $425 on the Alpha when
    you could get a Quad. for $500, or an SE50 with rack mount adaptor for
    $450 (Sorry, had to plug the SE50 again.) If we were talking a matter
    of several hundred dollars I could understand.

    
    Brian

    Iwasn't aware that the Alpha cost so much, I messed around with one in
    my drummer's store and wasn't real impressed. 
    
    Quad's cost $500 now? Wow I paid $400 for mine new....I wish I had
    another for that matter, great little box for the money.
    
    Anybody try/hear a Zoom 9030?
    
    dbii

    I did a pretty extensive analysis of Effect units a few months ago.
    Most of the shops I went to Daddy's, Hammel Music (I forgot their new
    name), Mr. C's, Wurly's... all had the Alpha for around $425 without
    bargaining and the Quad for $499. I assume you can get both units for
    less. I never checked mail order because I had to do some trading of
    old stuff. 
    
    

    Some of the locals are selling the SGX-2000 for $677.
    
    Mike

    Hi folks !
    
    Recently I had a chance to play the SGX and I thought I share my
    impressions with you. It was done at the dealers studio, with lots of
    people around, playing over a lousy headphone set, for half an hour
    or so.
    
    What I liked:
    
    - it had some really good distortion sounds, very pushy, good attack
    - there's a lot of flexibility to create or modify sounds. Most effects
      come in various kinds, so that in large, complex effect chains you
      can (have to) use simpler algorithms and in simpler chains you can
      use more complex algorithms. The sequence of the effects can be
      selected pretty free and there are also some ways for parallelisms.
    - EQ
    	- there's a choice between a 7-band graphical eq or a 4-band (I
          think) parametric eq.
    	- there's a line driver
    	- there's an additional 5-band eq that can be accessed directly
          with knobs => quick changes. However, I didn't find out from the
          manual if this switches off the eq that's part of the chain and
          vice versa if a new program is selected, if those add. eq
    	  settings are still in effect (which is not what I want).
    - the 3(?) preamp sections can be combined
    - it can be used for bi-amping (which I believe they use in some of the
      presets)
    - it has stereo ins (but "mono-ized" before the processing) with
      a mixer that allows to set the stereo position of the dry and the
      wet signal separately (if I interpreted the manual correctly)
      plus MIDI-pan, where you can use a foot pedal to vary the position 
      on the fly.
    - it has additional XLR outs
    - it is supposed to have a leslie-effect 
    - it has a MIDI monitor
    - it has an LED for every effect group, so you easily see what effects
      are used in given program.
    
    What I didn't like:
    
    - some of the sounds. They tend to overload the presets with 
      all the possible effects, which are up to ten digital effects.
      However, given that there are some good ones, I assume it's possible
      to throw out some and choose higher quality ones for the remaining, 
      and get decent programs. 
    - in contrast to my expection (which is propably based on a
      mis-interpretation of the sales blur) the stereo effect loop cannot
      be configured within the chain. It is fixed at the end of the chain,
      before the mixer and can only be switched on and off (maybe levels?).
      The other loop is mono and comes right after the analog section,
      again can be programmed or on and off.
    - the unit takes a noticeble break when switching programs , but still
      a lot less than 1 sec. Nothing dramatic, maybe also dependant on the
      compexity of the chain.
    - it doesn't have an on/off switch 8which is not too bad for me as I
      have my whole rack switched centrally anyway).
    - the design is not attractive to say the least
    
    All in all, the testing done wasn't enough for me to decide, so I would
    welcome additional comments. Is anybody aware of a review in magazines?
    
    
    	thanks and best regards
    
    		Richard

    Hi Richard,
    
    I've had an SGX2000 for a few months now.  The biggest problem you'll
    have in deciding whether or not to buy it is it's versatility.  Even
    if you had a chance to check out all 110 factory presets in a shop
    environment you still won't get a clue as to it's full potential.
    
    I have mine running through a Marchall 50w+50w 9000 power amp with two
    EV-12 Mesa Boogie speakers in true stereo set up and I have to say that
    even if I used just ONE patch then the box is value for money!
    
    Yes, there are things I don't like about it - certainly don't like the
    colour.  I'm not sure about some robustness features of the X-15 foot
    controller (the led's poke out the front), and I don't like that fact
    that the factory pre-sets have to be moved to beyond 127 patch to make
    use of your own presets.  Also, the user manual is not so very
    impressive - but most of the information is there.
    
    Even before you start (easily) tweeking any of the presets you can get
    a sound ranging from Paul Kossof to Nuno Bettancourt (from More than
    words to Get the Funk out!).
    
    I guess you could start discussing the electronic pros and cons, but
    I'd prefer to use my ears.  By tweeking the Acoustic Environment
    Simulator you can get the same sound in a hall that you got in the shop
    you originally checked it out in!
    
    Don't forget it was also designed to be used for use in the studio for
    voice, keyboards and guitar.
    
    As you may have gathered, after two months playing - I like my SGX2000.
    
    Cheers,
    
    -Ralph-
    

I haven't played one yet, but I noted one feature I thought the
Marshall-Heads would like - (I think it would be handy).

You make your preset and store it (this is cool standard stuff),
but then you can reach over and tweak (in real time) with a KNOB !

jc (Who needs to try this unit !!)

    Actually tweaking is another strong point.  I'm used to a BOSS ME-5 and
    I must say the fact that I can change parameters with the digital
    encoder is magic - it really is simple to select/modify different
    patches (when not using the X-15 Ultrafoot).
    
    -Ralph-

Hi Ralph !

Thanks for replying. I finally found out about the reason that there seemed to
be no activity in here ..... :-( (the disadvantage of using batch tools like
PAVN/RNU).

Anyway, that was exactly what I hoped to hear.

One thing that wasn't very clear to me is the relation of the programmable EQ
and the 5 knob EQ. Do they both use the same curcuitry or is it actually two ?
What are the consequences/behaviour when changing the one or the other ?

Did you find a reason to use the stereo effects loop (at the end of the chain)?

Have you tried it without the Marshalls ? Directly into the mixer ?

	best regards

		Richard

P.S.: Would be nice to have a reason to come to UK......

Well, I don't have much to pass along here, but I will say what I thought
anyhow.

We tried a guitarist out last Sunday.

He has the following gear:

-ART SGX
-UltraFoot (X15)
-ISP33B harmonizer
- (2) Fender Something Sixty Rack mounted tube amps
- (2) Marshall 4x12's

His sound was weak (thin) and over-processed.  This coming from a guy
who is constantly ribbed about his tone being thin.  

In defense of the guy, and his gear, it was pretty new to him, and I STILL
think that the SGX should be able to kick booty... I don't know what the
deal was but his sound was "Ack!" (as previously mentioned).

Anyway, I plugged my guitar into it and strolled thru the presets (his and
factory) at concert volume.  The volumes were all over the place, but that 
cool ART stereo delay is there, and it sounded neat.  The unit was relatively 
quiet and had potential.  I thought the 'verbs were typically ART - kind of
anemic and lacking "color".  I also thought the distortions were typically 
"tube-clone" type - ergo, about the same as the rest of the multi-boxes out
there.

I diddled a little with the params of a preset that was "close to cool" and 
managed to clean it up some, and there seemed to be room for plenty more 
adjustment...Still seemed to lack that "punched in the chest" feeling though.

I'd say that the main competition here will be the GSP21/RP1 stuff.  And I'd
look a lot closer at the SGX if I were in the market for this type of unit.
Preset-wise, and after just a peak at the sounds, I'd have to go with the SGX
over the GSP21/RP1 - I suspect a lot more functionality is under the sheets.

Naturally, I think I'd go with an ACCESS, or stick with the Mp1.
:^)

    
    
       Just like a lot of the hot boxes out there most of the SGX presets
    are total BS. Every now and then you hit one that sounds decent and 
    has some potential. In all honesty I'm glad I went for the ACCESS
    over  one of the "multi-do-it-alls" because it sounds great with
    out any effects plugged in! And it's much easier to program (piece of 
    cake) and integrat into a system with gear you already own!
       I have heard some guitarists get decent sound out of the SGX-2000,
    actually better than a GSP-21 (but that's not saying much!).
    
    							-B()()M-
    
    

Hi Jeff and Boom !

I totally agree that the SGX presets are heavily overloaden. There's a LED for
every effect group that is available (I think 12). Most of the presets look
like a christmas tree, (almost) all lights on.

Even though I agree that the Access is the better sounding unit, it's too
expensive for ME. So comparing with the ADA is more intersting for me and also
I think fair taking into account the price.

Now I was a bit surprised that Jeff mentioned the sound was "tube-wanna-be" or
something like that. I mean it USES tubes. So you seem to rate that the SGX
tube sounds are not as good as the ADAs ? But abviously quieter ? 

Well I think I have to find a dealer that is willing to let me try it at home
in my normal environment. So far I only heard it via headphones. And the
alternative of listening thru an amp and a cabinet in the shop doesn't meet my
setup too, since I connect my preamp/fx directly to the mixer.

	thanks so far

		Richard

    
    
       I think with a little work and "de-effecting" some of the patches the
    SGX-2000 can be made to sound pretty good. It doesn't seem to suffer
    from the crappy bandwidth problems the GSP-21 had (I'm not sure if the 
    newer GSP's have fixed this). Value is something that should be
    considered in this case. Considering you could have TWO SGX-2000's for
    the price of one ACCESS (or two MP1's for that matter)....
    Keep in mind MP-1's are available used as well and can be upgraded
    to the latest revision by ADA.
       ....then again, the ACCESS sure fixes a case of the "I wants" for
    quite some time to come! The ACCESS is MORE than a killer preamp. It's
    the closest thing to a mini-Bradshaw switching system this side of $2K.
    And since it's pretty easy to get every "best quality" effect you can
    think of with three effects units or less (hey - the ACCESS's FX-A loop
    is perfect for that old MXR box or Uni-vibe), it's very practical.
    
    							-B()()M-

    re: SGX being quieter
    
    Doesn't surprise me, the Mp-1 is notoriously noisy.  I have stomp box
    distortion effects that are quieter then my Mp-1 was...
    
    Greg

RE: Richard

Well, the SGX uses a TUBE, not tubes - but thats a nit.  I just didn't 
feel the tube sounds were voiced as well as the ADA - perhaps with some
EQ tweaking tho...  The distortion sounds in the unit were really buzzy
and thin - more so than my rig.

The SGX has a noise gate in it, so it was quiet as hell.  No hiss or hum,
or anything like that.  If you get an ADA and do REAL high gain stuff,
a Hush or Gate of some kind in the FX loop would be desirable.  I leave
my Hush on all the time, but I recall it not being noisey unless you were
real high on the levels and lights were blinking indicating a peaking
condition...and hanging around flourescent lights or dimmer packs.  :)

With the ADA, if your power section doesn't have any ballz, you'll have a 
noizey rig for sure.  Plenty of power takes away the need to run the levels
over five or so.

I definately recommend trying out these units in your OWN rig, or in one that
closely resembles yours...

Again, in the defense of the SGX, I was playing with knobs and using factory
presets.  I suspect the unit is quite capable of producing some amazing 
sounds.  Also in defense of the guy who owned the rig; He hadn't a CLUE about
his gear, as it was brand new to him.

Hi there !

Thanks a lot for your support !!!

Boom, you're like those smokers that always look for others to join them, so
they are not the only one's to be blamed   ;-)

I currently don't think I will need the looper. So despite the good sound and
the respect for German engineered products (maybe biased though ;-) ), I prefer
to invest any additional money (if there is any) in keyboard stuff.

>    Keep in mind MP-1's are available used as well and can be upgraded
>    to the latest revision by ADA.

I know, I have one  ;-) . I think I also have the latest revision, the firmware
version 2.01. Anything else to be upgraded ?

Jeff, I thought the SGX has 2 AX7s ? Does two don't count as tubeS (well,
maybe this is my limited english) ?

Anyway, I would have to get an additional noise gate (even though I saw the
peak indicators just once or twice) and a speaker simulator (eg. red box). But
still, I would miss a decent display, program change tables for the fx...

So I think I have to have a new toy....but there's another alternative to the
SGX, that's the Marshall JMP-1, same price, but NO effects. Oh, well.....

Anybody heard any confirmation about an update to the SGX being planned (or
even available) ? As indicated in my Musikmesse Frankfurt "report", the ART guy
mentioned they are considering an update that should contain an intelligent
pitch shifter.

	thanks and best regards

		Richard

    
    
    re: -.1  Smoking? the only smoking I do is on my guitar!
    
    
      All I was trying to get to is that after the ACCESS I couldn't imagine 
    anything more versatile or better sounding. And if I do want a
    different sould I can change the sound module for about $99. My effects
    could be upgraded w/o any major problem, then again the Rocktron
    Intellifex has few equals in it's price range.
    
    							-B()()M-
    
      p.s. Of course ART is coming out with something new, their product
    cycles are fairly short!
    
    		 

re: .55

>So I think I have to have a new toy....but there's another alternative to the
>SGX, that's the Marshall JMP-1, same price, but NO effects. Oh, well.....

    Sounds perfect to me...
    
    ;^)

I may be mistaken (hey- it happens) but I think the SGX has one tube, 
although the literature implies two, because of the wording around "two 
stages of real tube gain"...That doesn't mean there is two tubes, just
two circuit paths.  :)

Tricky isn't it ??

FWIW - This fellow had just bought the SGX, and wanted to trade me for my 
Mp1/Quadraverb...

jc

    
    	I'm borrowing an SGX-2000 over the weekend to compare 
    	it to my GSP21. Should be fun.
    
    	-Tony

    You're right, Coop.  You can get "two stages of real tube gain" out of a
    *single* 12AX7, 'cause it's two independent triodes in one glass package.
    Those marketing types are SO clever...
    
    chuck

Isn't that something ??

I think the Mp1s glossy sez it has *5* stages of tube gain in it...  

Horse feathers... It's got two tubes.  :)  Watch them marketing types...
:)

    It's doable.  There's a 6K11 in my Ampeg VT40 -- *three* triodes in one
    envelope.  Three stages (since the triodes don't share any pins, except
    maybe the filaments for all three are ganged to the same pins) of
    amplification available in one tube.  That's why the marketing guys
    count STAGES rather than tubes.
    
    Think about the number of transistors in a single IC though.  Even in a
    simple op-amp (8 pin DIP) there are a multitude of actual transistors.
    Don't advertising just warm the cockles of yer heart, dude?

    Makes me all warm and fuzzy.  :)
    
    Never cared for all the fluff in the glossies that they manufacturers
    put out - I tend to turn to the spec page (even if I don't understand
    half of it :).
    
    Bottom line is (and you can't put this on a glossy) "Howzit sound ?"
    jc

    Hi folks !
    
    Well, 18 months after my original note, I bought a used SGX + X15
    foot controller for a price I couldn't resist, 4 months old, looks like
    new, even got warranty from the dealer.
    
    First of all, Coop was right, just one tube... :-{
    
    Interested in some more comments ? I interpret your silence as yes... :-)
    
    The pure tube curcuits are not as good as the ADA. Especially crunchy
    sounds are a bit weak so far. However, if you play hard stuff, then the
    compressor, the delay, the chorus are helping to get real pushing
    sounds. And, due to the noise gate and/or expander you get A LOT LESS
    noisy device than the ADA.
    
    The bluesy sounds are also a bit weak, they lack dynamics, but maybe I 
    have to see if the compressor is on. 
    
    The wah-wah doesn't reach a real wah-wah. Chorus didn't convince me
    too, but I think the presets use a lower quality algorithm due to
    processor capacity for these multiple effects chain. Have to see what a
    single chorus will provide.
    
    There is a digital,programmable 5-band EQ and an analog 5-band EQ with
    knobs. Both provide a good handle for mangling the sound. The bands
    do not overlap, so in a way you have 10-band EQ. But, for recall
    convinience it's better to just use the programmable EQ.
    
    There is an AES , Ambience Environment something, which is supposed to
    act as an speaker simulator, but I find it cumbersome to use (yet). It
    uses names like "wood plated", "carpets" etc. without giving an
    indication what it is simulating speaker-wise, so you have to just step
    thru all possibilities. But besides that, it helps avoiding the
    harshness of digital fx.
    
    The dry signal, the output from the analog section and the output from
    the digital fx section can be mixed (programmable) in level and pan
    position.
    
    The foot controller allows the basic things, up/down, bank select,
    program select, program change table etc. It doesn't help editing much,
    it just allows switching off ONLY effects in a given program.
    
    Well, soon I should have a bit more time to get into programming it on
    my own. So we will see, what I can squeeze out of it.
    
    I would be glad if someone could find out if and when an update for the
    firmware will be available. At the Musikmesse Frankfurt they indicated
    that they are planning one offering intelligent pitch-shift. Mine is
    V1.0. 
    
    
    	thanks and best regards
    
    		Richard
    

    Coolness Richard !!
    
    I'd like to hear more after you've fiddled with it some!
    
    Doncha just LOVE the X15 ???
    
    jc

Hi Coop ! (still haven't figured out your first name....)

After 3 more hours, I found that a lot of the pushy sounds I like are
generated by the solid state section. The tube section still puzzles me, it's a
bit lame, still very little dynamics. I have to keep on tryin...

As said before, the rest of the analog section is very good (noise gate,
enhancer, it's even a 7 band digital EQ !!!). 

The chorus isn't as flexible as I know from other boxes. There's one reverb
that sounds quite good, but you can't combine it with chorus/flanger, delay.
The less complex reverbs tend to shatter. Both do have a position parameter 
(rear -> front), which I find much more meaningful, than twiddling an early
reflection parameter.

The X15 is really cool. Ie. the fact that you can easily switch off certain
effects in a chain gives you actually a lot more different sounds in direct
access. The program selection is really interesting. There's one mode, where
you use the up/down to switch the second digit of the program number (the tens)
and you select any program from x1-x0 with one push. 


	Richard

    RE: -1
    
    Coop's first name is.....uh, hang on it's coming......ummm, sheesh, I
    ferget!
    
    ????? D'Andrea

    I seem to remember it had a very cool Eric Johnson patch ("EJ
    something") and and AMAZING Larry Carlton patch.
    
    The Rockman's may be "Boston in a box" but the SGX-2000 may be
    "Larry in a box".

Hi Dave !

That's right, there are actually two Eric J patches, one crunch, one clean.
They are both very good. I haven't found the Larry Carlton patch.

Does anyone know if there's a ART publication that has patches (like in the ADA
publication) ? Or what about your friends that own a SGX, someone willing to
dump so patches "on" me.... ;-) 

Someone mentioned that book of Craig Anderton (or was it Undertone  :-}) for
guitar effects, would it give suggestions for specific sounds of artists ?

Does anybody know if the patches for other ART products, like the ALPHA (which
seems to be exactly the digital effects section of the SGX) can be transferred
to the SGX ? I'm interested in patches for strings, synths and vocals ?

Uhh, lot's of questions.....

	thanks in advance

		Richard