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Conference napalm::guitar

Title:GUITARnotes - Where Every Note has Emotion
Notice:Discussion of the finer stringed instruments
Moderator:KDX200::COOPER
Created:Thu Aug 14 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:3280
Total number of notes:61432

2105.0. "Official Patch Bay topic..." by GSRC::COOPER (Major MIDI Rack Puke (tm)) Tue Feb 12 1991 16:45

    
    Cross posted from COMMUSIC, cuz I need some help !
    
    Anyone know PATCH BAY's ???
    
            <<< DNEAST::SYS$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;2 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 404.33                 Rackmounts and Patchbays                    33 of 33
GSRC::COOPER "Major MIDI Rack Puke (tm)"             45 lines  12-FEB-1991 15:58
                      -< Help with bay configuration... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I need help !
    
    I have a Symetrix-32 patch bay and I thought I understood how it
    worked...Apparently not.  Hopefully someone can clear this up for 
    me.  Here's the situation:
    
    I have two guitar preamp outputs (one is stereo, one is mono = three
    plugs) going into the back plugs of the bay (number 1, 2, and 3).
    I also have the inputs (A and B) to the rest of my stereo rig plugged
    into 17 and 18 (the back of the unit)...  Maybe a drawing attempt is in 
    order:
    
    
    preamp1 out
                   preamp 2(left)      preamp 2(right)
      |                   |                    |
      v                   v                    v
     -----------------------------------------------
    | 1                   2                    3
    |
    |
    | 17                  18
     -----------------------------------------------
      |                   |
      v                   v
 To left input       To right input
    of rig              of rig
    
    Okay, now what I thought should happen is that I jump (on the front of 
    the bay) from "jack 1" to "jack 17" with a small patch cord and "Preamp
    1"'s output should go directly to the input to my rig...Which is
    does... However, if I unplug the patch cord it STILL works !! (this
    blew my mind).  
    
    I also thought that if I used a jumper between 2 and 17
    and 3 and 18 that that would work...      Also, when I jumped from
    1 to *19* I still got input to the rest of my rig from preamp 1.
    I'm confused.
    
    I'm babbling.
    
    Okay, Bottom line is:  Can someone explain how these bays are wired ??
    What shorts to what, and which are open ??
    
    jc
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2105.1Are you "normalized", or "Non-normalized"?MOOV01::DERRICOStuck between Iraq &amp; a hard placeWed Feb 13 1991 08:1613
       I don't know a whole lot about patchbays, since I don't own one *YET*
    but might be able to get you closer to what you're asking.
    
       What you might have is a "Normalized" Patch Bay. As best as I know
    right now, each input jack has a coresponding output jack. (I'm not
    shure it there are common busses though.) When you patch something
    from the front panel to another jack, you break the connection from
    the source jack; and then connects to another via the cable. I'm
    going to have to look this one up in my recording book.
    
      Please correct me if I'm wrong.
    
    JOhn
2105.2About 25c worth of knowledgeMILKWY::JACQUESVintage taste, reissue budgetWed Feb 13 1991 11:48110
	Jeff,

	I think I covered patchbays briefly in the "19 inch rack" note.
    I'll have to look for the note and post a pointer. At any rate, patch
    bays can be configured differant ways to suit your needs. I'm not
    sure how your patchbay works specifically but in general, they work
    like so:

	The top and bottom jacks form a pair which can be configured in
    one of the following ways:

	Normalled - In a normalled configuration, the signal makes a loop
	from top-rear to top-front, to bottom-front, and back across to 
	the bottom-rear. If you plug a jack into the top-front plug you 
	break the connection between the top-front and the bottom-front. 
	An example of where normalled loops work great is when connecting 
	the outputs of a mixer to the inputs of a tape recorder. The signal 
	from the mixer is connected to the top-rear and the output to the 
	recorder is taken from the bottom-rear. This allows you to "insert" 
	an effect processor. You connect a cable to the top-front (this 
	breaks the normalled loop) and connect this into the input of the 
	effect. The output of the effect is fed back into the bottom-front 
	and the insert is complete.
	
			Normalled (* = signal)
			_________________
	   top-front   =|***************|= top-rear
			|*		|
			|*		|
	bottom-front   =|***************|= bottom-rear
			-----------------


	Non-Normalled - When a pair is set up in a non-normalled con-
	figuration, the signal travels from front to rear on both the upper
	and lower pairs, but there is not connection between top and bottom. 
	The top and bottom pairs are independant from each other. If you want 
	to keep signals isolated (like preamp inputs/outputs, guitar inputs, 
	etc) you must have the top and bottom jacks in a non-normalled 
	configuration.

			Non-normalled (* = signal)
			_________________
	   top-front   =|***************|= top-rear
			|		|
			|		|
	bottom-front   =|***************|= bottom-rear
			-----------------

	Shorted - A shorted configuration allows you to use a top/bottom
	pair as you would a y-cord. You could have one signal feeding
	two inputs by shorting the two front jacks to one of the rear
	jacks (or vice-versa).

			Shorted (* = signal)
			_________________
	   top-front   =|***************|= top-rear
			|     *		|
			|     *		|
	bottom-front   =|******		|= bottom-rear
			-----------------


	There is a fourth configuration called half-normalled, which 	
	allows you to tap off of the top-front jack and run a loop in
	parralel with the normalled loop. Not all patch bays can run
	this way.


	If you have a 32-point patch bay, what you really have is 16
	"channels". Each channel can be configured in either normalled,
	non-normalled, 1/2 normalled, or shorted. For example you 
	could have the first 8 channels "normalled", the next four "non-
	normalled", the next 2 "shorted", and the last 2 "1/2 normalled".
	Tascam patch bays have 8 modules, each of which contain two channels. 
	One side has white jacks and the other has red jacks. To switch
	from normalled to non-normalled you simply turn the module around.
	If the red jacks are facing front, is it said to be normalled and
	if the white jacks are facing front it is non-normalled, but this
	is only when referancing things from the rear panel. To short a
	channel you must actually solder a wire to the module (yech!!).
	I'm not sure if Tascam bays can be used in a 1/2 normalled con-
	figuration or not (I doubt it). Tascam patch bays are inexpensive
	and work okay, but changing the configuration requres you to take
	the entire bay apart and turn modules around. This tends to be a	
	pain, as you have to remove the bay from your rack, remove the
	rack ears, pull the front and back covers off, unscrew the module
	turn it around, and reassemble the whole thing. Soldering a wire
	to a module to short it is pretty much a permanent change. I
	wouldn't want to solder/unsolder it too many times as you would
	inevitably end up burning etch and destroying a module if you do
	this too many times.
	
	    Rapco makes patch bays which have a selector switch on the 
	front of each channel. The switch allows you to select any of the 
	4 configurations. They make a 48-point bay like this, and possibly 	
	a 32-point bay as well. They're great bays, but costly. I priced
	one of the 48 point bays, and it listed for $275.00. With a bay
	like this I'd be real careful when flicking switches, as you may
	inadvertantly send the wrong signal to the power amp, or cause
	some other fiasco. 

	    Of course there are also "midi-patch-bays" out there which do
	all of this electronically and are programmable. This is a topic
	for a differant note.


	Hope this helps !!
	Mark Jacques
2105.3GSRC::COOPERMajor MIDI Rack Puke (tm)Wed Feb 13 1991 14:006
    Wow.  I gotta read that one twice. !!
    
    Tanks for the information guys.  I'll have to figure out what the hell
    I have now...  I'll postit back here when I do.
    
    jc