Conference napalm::guitar

What did you need to know?  I've had mine for 6 years, may be I could help if
it's the controls you need to know about.  I think I lost my schematic a while 
back but if I come across it, I'll copy it for you.

Will

    Anyone hear about their new MIDI preamp yet?

    Mesa Boogie's new MIDI preamp is called the TriAxis.  It can be ordered
    now, but won't ship until November.
    
    From what I hear, it is basically a Quad with the MIDI Matrix features
    built in.  No word on price yet, but it should be high.
    
    Mike

Saw a new Mesa (no Boogie in the logo) amp in a store on Saturday, and
I went over for a closer look thinking it was the new Dual rectifier
combo with 2 speakers (Trem o Verb?).

I was surprised to find that the amp was a "Twin  Caliber", which I've never
heard of. I didn't know Mesa were still making Caliber combos.
It appears to be a twin channel Caliber amp. The cabinet was wider than the
standard Boogie size, and contained 1 x 12" Black Shadow speaker. It had 2
6L6 power tubes.

*Dave

    RE: -1
    	GP gave it a pretty good review too, but mentioned that it
    weighed 3,000,000 lbs.
    
    	Rock on,
    		Fred (who's not a "Golds Gym" kinda guy)

Fred,

No, this was not the weighty beast reviewed in GP (Trem-o-verb?) - that had
2 speakers.

That's what surprised me; I'd never heard of this model or seen any writeups,
and there one was in my local music store in the UK...

*Dave

    A newsletter from Mesa mentioned this--I think it's a combo version of
    the dual rectifier. I'll try to remember to look it up.
    
    Danny W.

The amp in .4 was the DC5 ("Dual Caliber"), please ignore my previous
ramblings.

Did anyone notice the write-up of the Mesa V-Twin (I've probably got the name
of this wrong as well) in the February '94 GP?

It's a tube pre-amp (2x 12AX7) in a very rugged "foot pedal".  
Has knobs for tone and gain, and two footswitches to switch between
"Clean" and "Solo", or "Blues" and "Solo". It also has various outputs for 
different uses (i.e. output to amp input, to headphones, to mixing desk,
to power amp). Sounds like a very useful toy - I wonder if it's beer
resistant.

Cost is $350. Anyone seen, heard  or tried lifting one of these?

*Dave

    I grabbed this off of the Boogie.Enet conference.
    
    For your reading enjoyment!
    
    		Rock on,
    			Fred
    
    ======================================================================
    
From:	LUNER::US4RMC::"[email protected]" "BOOGIE-TALK Distribution List" 11-MAY-1994 17:09:46.81
To:	BOOGIE-TALK Distribution List <[email protected]>
CC:	
Subj:	ANNOUNCEMENT: The Mesa/Boogie V-Twin is the Holy Grail... - rec.music.makers.guitar #5575

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Marc Jacobs) writes:
|> Up until yesterday, my guitar tone had been good but not great. I had been
|> running my PRS into my ART SGX2000 and then into a Roland JC120. This setup
|> had lots of versatility but unfortunately not one of the many, many sounds
|> it could create was STELLAR. Furthermore, I had been plagued by the problem
|> of not being able to get a good guitar sound on tape for my demos, short of
|> micing my JC120 and blowing out the neighbors.
|> 
|> I went to the music store the other day with the intention of buying the
|> SansAmp rackmount--reluctantly. I heard that the SansAmp sounded quite good
|> for certain kinds of sounds as long as it went to tape. I also heard that it
|> was useless in a live situation. But when I was perusing the effects room at
|> the House of Guitars in Rochester, I found a mammoth looking pedal all
|> adorned in chrome: yes, that's right folks, it's the Mesa Engineering V-Twin
|> Pre-Amp.
|> 
|> First of all, the thing looks agressive: bullet-proof (according to MB)
|> textured casing a la Dual Rectifier surrounds a very large pedal with two 
|> foot switches. Chrome knobs (of the same size as the Dual Rectifier) fit in
|> nicely in front of two (count 'em, two) 12ax7, slightly visible under a
|> easily removable steel cover. Strangest of all, there's this big winged
|> thing design on the front, very Harley Davidsonesque. Add three multicolored
|> LEDs for the V-Twin three modes (clean, blues and solo) and you've got a
|> very handsome item.
|> 
|> But how does it sound, you ask? INCREDIBLE. Going through my JC120 it sounds
|> just like a Trem-O-Verb. Absolutely incredible. Through it's special
|> headphone jack it sounded like the room was shaking. Direct into my stereo
|> (my usual practice amp) it sounded beautiful. Direct to tape, it was just
|> like a good micing job. The clean sound is powerful with real warmth; the
|> blues sound has got lots of guts; the solo sound has more sustain than I
|> have ever experienced with my setup. My ART with boosted distortion and
|> plenty of compression could not even compare. No matter which output I
|> plugged it out of or which amp-like device I plugged it into, I sounded
|> fantastic. Blows away every other effects unit (for distortion) I've ever
|> played. The sound sounds so good that it doesn't even need reverb to smooth
|> it out--sounds good right from the box, silky smooth and extremely hot.
|> 
|> How much did it cost? Well I managed to get it slightly discounted at--and
|> hey, this is just between you and me ;)--at $300. I don't know if I can
|> express this enough--this is a steal for this price. It's as if they just
|> chopped out the preamp side of a Dual Rectifier and put it on the floor. So
|> if your looking for that holy grail to improve your sound, this is it folks.
|> Buy one at dealer nearest you. And no, I don't work for Mesa Boogie.
|> 
|> Any specific questions about the unit or its sound will be gladly answered.
|> 
|> Marc Jacobs
|> [email protected]
|> 
|> 
|> 

-- 

     
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          ---/|-----------------**---**--**----**-----------------
          --/-|_-------------****---******---**-------------------
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|   Jack A Zucker                      Internet:  [email protected]   |
|   Allen-Bradley Company, Inc.                                    |
|   747 Alpha Drive                       Voice:  216-646-4668     |
|   Highland Hts., OH 44143                 Fax:  216-646-4484     | 

    Why are MB's *SO* expensive? I see little 12" speaker combo's going for
    a $900 -$1000 used. What's up wit that?
    
    -k

    -k,
      You're paying for a good amp that's not mass produced. You pay 
    alot for hand assembly, and the name. Are they "really" worth it?
    
    Only your ears, lifting capacity and bank account can tell you if
    *any* amp is actually worth it. 
    
    
    Fred

    Not mass produced??? 

    No, not totally. There are (from what I've been told) alot more
    "hand assembly" steps than amps being spit off an assembly line
    at MESA (at least with the high end amps).
    
    USA made right? Well, how much does a factory worker in the USA get vs
    one in Korea? You could say that Peavey and Fender (USA made) have the
    same situation, but you're still talking $700+. for a 40 watt Vibroverb
    reissue! It's one of the reasons why DEC is getting out of the PC 
    business! We can't match the price of cheaper/foreign made. Quality
    is a BIG thing at Mesa and it should be everywhere, but Mesa has a
    specific market in mind. Peavey has the low and mid range market, as
    does Fender. Mesa wants the mid to high end market and they do! Does 
    it make their amps any better that anyone else's? I can't decide that for
    you...  it just makes them more expensive. 
    
    
    It's like anything...  the more years that go by, the more expensive
    everything will get. 
    
    
    JMO,
        Fred (who owned a MK2c)
    

    Re: .previous
    
    What does USA vs Korea have to do it?  Name one tube amp made in
    Korea.
    
    And Digital is not getting out of the PC business, we only dropped
    our SOHO/retail line (unless you consider this the first step to
    the demise of the PCBU, rather than a failed experiment).
    
    Why is MB expensive?
    
    Mesa Boogie is expensive, but no more than Kendrick, Matchless, or
    any of the other "Boutique" amp makers (actually, they are cheap
    compared to Matchless).  They can demand their premium price because
    there are people who are willing to pay.
    
    My 2 cents,
    Jim
    
    

    RE: .14
    
    USA vs Korea? I was just attempting (OK a poor attempt) at looking at
    foreign made vs USA made products in "labor rates". OK, how about the
    "far east". And YES, the dropped PC thing was "only" retail consumer
    and NOT the professional line. Sorry if I struck a nerve.
    
    I'm not going to debate this because I really don't have the time, 
    but manufacturers don't wake up one morning and say "let's build an 
    amp for $100.00 (for instance) and sell it for $1,000. (although it
    wouldn't hurt the profit margin) because there's a market. I "think" 
    on the whole, people sell something for what the market will pay. The 
    only thing that puts Mesa close to Matchless in my mind is in the 
    "amps over $900.00" category and that they both start with the letter 
    "M". Both are better made than alot of amps out on the market, but are 
    they better or more reliable? Price? That depends on your checking account.
     
    Maybe I should have answered the "base" question by stating that Mesa
    is expensive because that's the way it is and people are forking over
    the money for them at the price Mesa wants. 
    
    
    	"JHO"
    
    		Fred

    re: .15
    
    >> Sorry if I struck a nerve.
    
    Actually, no need to appologize-- my nerves are intact.
    
    You and I are basically in agreement.  My reply in .14 was rather
    terse (I was in a hurry), so I can see how it could be misunderstood.
    I'm sorry you thought I might have been offended.
    
    My only issue with .13 (besides Digital getting out of the PC business)
    was that I thought the foreign/domestic labor issue was irrelevant--
    I couldn't think of any amp manufacturers that benefit from low-cost
    foreign labor that would be considered competition for Mesa Boogie.
    
    Jim

    I just typed in a story about my Boogie and got blown away by a crash.
    
    The short version is that a year ago, I carried my amp across a parking
    lot that was totally iced over (I'm sure Fred remembers THAT gig).
    
    I slipped on the ice and in the process of trying to stay upright
    ended up swinging the arm that was carrying the amp and ultimately
    TOSSING it up and across the parking lot.  It was rather amazing
    how far that thing flew considering how heavy it is.
    
    I figured NO WAY could any tube amp survive that and on the long drive
    home I was really pissed - pissed because the driving was so shitty
    and because I figured I had just blown whatever money I had earned
    (cause I'd have to spend it to fix the amp if it was even fixable).
    
    Although I was dog tired when I got home, I decided to plug the thing
    in and assess the damage.
    
    Well... you can probably guess the rest of the story.  It worked.
    Flawlessly.  Didn't even need to replace a single tube.
    
    Boogies have a shock-mount system that is a big part of the expense
    of the amp.   Randall Smith has said that some people think it goes
    overboard (not justified by its caused).
    
    As of a year ago... I started agreeing with Randall Smith on that.
    
    	db

    I've used Mesa (Bass) gear almost exclusively for years now.  
    
    Price paid is all relative.  You should always ALWAYS - buy the best!
    All of my equipment gets purchased with one thought in mind - "how long
    will it take to earn back the purchase price through gigging."  It's
    simply a ROI calculation. I never view what I pay for music gear as
    "out-of-my-own-pocket-money" - the gigs pay for it - or it just doesn't
    get purchased. 
    
    One thing is absolutely certain however - Mesa gear is "road-worthy" -
    I mean my gear gets "used" to earn money.  There's virtually no
    maintenance to Boogie gear - except you shouldn't drop the stuff off
    your truck going 65mph to a gig - but other than that - it's like that
    pink bunny we've all come to hate - it just keeps going and going ....
    and high end gear resale values are substantial - speaking from
    experience.
    
    d.

    Hey Fred,
    
    	DEC was getting out of the PC buisness even when I was in the
    Rainbow group....back in 8x....
    
    Mesa Boogies expensive?  nah....
    
    
    							Rick
    

    
    boogies would be great amps, and well worth the money, if only they
    had decent tone.... ;-)
    
    /Steve (putting on his flak jacket)
    

    They have great tone when you get them dialed in right!
    
    Unfortunately, if you have a great setting and move one knob a tiny bit
    from where it was, the tone can turn to crap. Marshalls, on the other
    hand, sound pissa wherever you dial 'em in.
    
    Maybe that's because the pots on Marsahlls are there just for looks,
    and really don't do anything...    8-)
    
    Larry

    
    I haven't played alot of amps, but Mesas seem to sing/sustain
    even clean and at low/clean settings to me. 
    
    Also, as I remember it in the 70s when Santana/Carlton/Dimeola
    started with them that was really the sound to get, and it was
    a new alternative to Marshall for a lead sound.  They may still
    be trading on that cachet.
    
    Here's a question: Does it really matter what cord I use
    to go to the foot switch on my Studio 22? Or is a regular 
    guitar cord ok?
    
    Dave
     
    
     

I agree with eveything that has been said in earlier replies.

I view Mesa as being in the middle of the tube amp range when compared
with other amps. Peavey, Fender, and a few others (Crate, Laney, 
Sundown,
etc) all make tube amps that sell for under $1000. Most Mesa's are priced
in the $1000 to $2000 range. Mesa shares this range with Marshall, and
a few others. In the very high end, there is Matchless, Demeter, THD,
Kendrick, Soldano, Dumble, and a few others. The high end amps are way 
up there in the $2000+ range. 

Considering the way that Mesa Boogies are constructed and tested, they
are reasonably priced. There is a great deal of hand-assembly, point-to
point wiring, custom-made transformers, cabs made of void-free Russian
birch, shop-mounting, and high-reliability components that go into a 
Mesa, all of which adds cost. They also hammer test every chassis, and
tone-test every amp before it leaves the factory. You won't find anyone
at the Peavey factory hammer-testing an amp chassis. 

There is also the percieved value which is somewhat elusive, but greatly
affects the resale value of an item. Some items hold their value better
than others and Mesa is one of them. Mesa probably would have been
de-valued a bit over the last 5-10 years if it hadn't been their new-
found popularity with the Grunge crowd. 

    
    >>> [They also] tone test every amp before it leaves the factory.
    
    	If this is true, then why is it so confounded easy to get
    	crappy tone out of a boogie???  ;-)
    
    	/Steve (flak jacket firmly in place now)
    

    
    	He didn't say they tested to see if it had a GOOD tone, he said
    	they tested to see if it had A tone.
    
    	Big difference.  8^)
    

    
    	-1
    
    	That explains it!
    
    	Actually, the boogie tone enigma was what my earlier flip replies
    	were alluding to...  several years ago I came very close to buying
    	one (a mark III simulclass), but decided against it because it was
    	so sensitive to dialing in the right tone.   And since then there
    	have been so many great sounding amps to hit the market, I can't
    	understand why there are so many folks eager to shell out $1500
    	for an amp where you turn a dial 2 millimeters and the tone goes
    	from great to garbage.
    
    	/Steve
    

    While we're into it here, in the new GP Randy something, 
    the guy who started Boogie, seems to take credit for 
    bringing in the whole high gain amp syndrom.  Other 
    amp reps in the same article don't really dispute it.  
    That's soemthing. 
    
    I agree about the degree of variation in the
    tones even in my Studio. That might not be
    as true with their simpler models like the Blue Angel.  
    
    Also, I've noticed that the lead channel always sounds 
    a little weird at the low volumes I usually play at.  The thing
    just opens up at a little higher levels.  But that might
    be because the speaker is really moving or something. 
    So its the amp's fault if I go deaf a little faster! 
    
    Dave
    
    

    Well...lets be honest, as people have said before, an amp is only
    worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Some high ticket amp
    makers have gone out of business and it's difficult to give away alot
    of their stuff now. Some have closed doors and their stuff is still in
    very high demand today. Perceived value and consumer demand dictate
    prices (If Matchless goes under I'll be calling for the blowout specials.) 
    
    While Dumble and Matchless continue to service the "upper brow" of
    musicians with completely hand wired amps, Mesa has begun claiming that 
    point to point hand wiring is not their preferred method these days.
    Something about consistency of tone ...bla bla bla...
    However they do continue to claim to use only the best components
    available on the market, or special components developed in house.
    
    Either way, I love my  Dual Rectifier T-O-V. Was it worth the money ?
    Who knows...I'm happy with it and it sounds great. Mesa has a great
    reputation for standing behind their products and their resale is
    always very high. The attention to detail and  (imho) the tone is
    wonderful. All of those factors were important to me. So to me the amp 
    was worth the cash. 
    
    Brian 
    
        

    I've documented my own experience with a Boogie Mk IV in note # 1853.
    In general, I've been thrilled with it for more than 4 years and think
    it was worth every cent. It is hard to set up, and easy to get screwed
    up, but it's worth the occasional few minutes of fiddling to get three
    channels of outstanding sound, and a power section flexible enough to
    sound great in the house (Tweed/Triode/Class A) or in front of a big
    crowd (Full/Pentode/Simul-class), with the added bonus of an excellent
    reverb, a switchable EQ and f/x loop, and slave and recording outputs
    with send level controls.
    
    Mark mentioned that Boogie has become mid-priced. This is very
    true--even Fender has several more expensive amps that are outstanding
    on a different level. The $1,000 Mesa/Boogie amps are good value at
    this price point; the DC-5, Maverick, Subway Blues and Tremoverb
    represent several alternate approaches to high-quality guitar sound and
    are competitively priced.
    
    Recently, I've been thinking of adding a Fender amp, not to replace the
    Mk IV, but as an alternate sound (the Boogie is not a great surf music
    amp--it's hard to get the reverb to sproing like that), but as
    attracted as I am to one of the new -'verbs (or Dual Pro or Vibro-King),
    it's hard to get around the fact that the Boogie sounds so good for
    most of the stuff I play that it's been really hard to justify another
    amp (this from a guy who'd buy yet another 355 'cause he likes the color).
    
    BTW, Randy Smith really did single-handedly start the multi-stage,
    high-gain preamp trend. I thought he was rather restrained in that GP
    roundtable--all the people there owe him big time for their
    livelihoods. (Actually, his wife Rayven helped, but she seems to have
    disappeared from his life and his story).
    
    Danny W.