Conference napalm::guitar

    I saw Carlos last month when he appeared at the AZ State Fair.  He's
    excellent live!
    
    Mike

    Here's something to really bum you out.  Carlos is one of Today show
    host Bryant Gumbel's faves.  I always feared Bryant and I had a lot in
    common :-)  Anyway, Carlos was on Today yesterday; did the title tune
    off the new CD and jammed out on it pretty good.  Nice to wake up to stuff
    like that once in a while.
    
    /rick

    
    I was just talking to Rick Calcagni yesterday about how I never thought
    of myself as a Santana fan, then realized I own six of his albums, plus
    a couple of live radio tapes...
    
    My current fave is the "Viva Santana" CD set.  This has some monstrous
    live cuts that were previously unreleased, including a nice take of
    "Jungle Boogie" (wonder what this sounded like when saxophonist Gene
    Ammons originally did it) and the incredible "Super Boogie/Hong Kong
    Blues", a soundboard tape from a Hartford, CT show a few years ago.  The
    first half is what it says, a screaming boogie thing, but then they
    slow up and Carlos plays an incredible blues solo...one of the best
    moments I've ever heard in the blues/rock idiom.
    
    Probably the main evidence of his Mexican heritage is that insane
    double-picking thing he gets going on sometimes, it sounds like a
    flamenco player doing a tremelo...
    
    As far as "BMW", on the "Viva..." set, they open with the studio
    version than close with a live version from the eighties.  Interesting
    contrast.  Has anyone ever heard Gabor Szabo doing "Gypsy Queen", which is
    supposedly tacked on at the tail of "BMW"?
    
    							Brian

    I always like the group Santana, but thought (and still do ..) he was
    over rated ... he kinda plays in spurts, get on my nerves after a
    while.   But I will give credit - he pours emotion into every note, and
    I can respect that !
    
    Scary

    I saw Carlos live at U Mass a while ago.  What a tone that dude gets.
    He played a 40 minute version of my all-time-fave Santana tune:
    
    Europa - anyone else familiar with this tune ?
    
    jc (Who learned some of it for fun once...WHAT A TUNE!)

   Yeah, I love the whole Moonflower album.  "Europa" is a fav, as is
   "Dance, Sister, Dance".  What a great solo in that tune!

   -- Sam

    FWIW, the loudest concert I ever saw was Santana/McLaughlin's
    _Love Devotion Surrender_ tour in the early '70s (Billy Cobham
    on drums).  I went in as a bigger McLaughlin fan than Santana
    fan, but on that particular night Carlos blew John away.
    
    My fave Santana album: _Caravanserai_
    
    Peter

    Carlos Santana has one of the most recognizable sounds around.
    Part of it is that singing sustain he gets.  So what's the secret?
    
    In 60's, Carlos favored blackface Fender Twins.  In interviews
    from that period, he complained that he couldn't get the sustain he
    wanted from the newer Fenders (i.e. the CBS silver panel amps).  Then
    he discovered Mesa Boogies, at the time a fledgling shop doing Fender mods,
    and has been using their amps ever since.  However, he only uses the
    original production model, the Mk-I, complaining that the newer models
    sound too harsh.  I've read that the recent Mesa Mk-I re-issue was at
    least partly due to Carlos' request.
    
    So, it's a Mesa and humbuckers, right?  Well, I got a bit of surprise
    while watching one of the countless showings of the movie "Woodstock"
    last year.  There was Carlos getting that great sound on Soul
    Sacrifice, but he was doing it with a P-90 equipped SG and some
    weirdo solid state stack (extra credit to anyone who can identify
    this beast).  Oh well, guess it really is in the hands.
    
    /rick

    
    	I second Caravanseri.  I also just picked up Borboletta.  Coop,
    	Europa *is* awesome.  I've seem him a few times live.  He was kind
    	of stately and laid back on the Amigos tour but was back in wild
    	assed form on Moonflower.  He did three encores and during an 
    	extended solo on ___ (I forgot which), he broke into Benson's
    	Breezin' as if to show everyone he could do it all.  He can do
    	it all...  He is not my favorite, but I probably have more 
    	respect for him than any other guitarist.  

    I last saw Santanna touring the Zebop albumn in Portland me. He played
    almost 4 hours. One of the show's highlights was Europa , Carlos
    silloetted on the backdrop with a dark purple/black stars and a moon
    projected on the backdrop...moving...
    
    They encored 5 times! ANd the last encore they played JB Goode as they
    had run out of songs...loved that Portland croud!
    
    The first time I saw Santanna he opened for Clapton....at the end of
    clpaton's show they set up a boogie with a mike and Carlos came out to
    jam on Little Wing...I still get chills remembering that 40 mins of
    George Terry, Eric and Carlos switching back on forth, I swear that
    Jimi must 'o smiled on them that night...
    
    dbii

    
    	My favorite is "Hope You're Feeling Better" ... he wails on
    	that song!!  And coming in at second is his cover of "She's
    	Not There".
    
    							GTI
    

    As I mentioned in the "Tubes" notes, that weird shaped head is a !OLD!
    GK, or then it was called "GMT", most likly one of the 1st 50 GK/GMT
    units ever sold.  I've never seen another on film/pix/vid, but have 
    fixed a few.  I do have the schematic for it, natch.
    
    Another OLD GK/GMT is the unit pixed inside the F. Zappa "Roxy"
    LP.  I sold him that amp in Boston for $200.
    
    I expect the "..extra credits.." thru the usual channels...
    
    Jay Tashjian
    

    	Santana has released so many albums, it's really hard for me to
    pick out one or two... as far as older material goes, the one record
    I couldn't go without is "Lotus", the 3-LP set, import only, I believe,
    that's pretty hard to find (at least it used to be). Perhaps a bit
    indulgent at points, it still is a great representation of his live
    show & it's just loaded with killer playing. If you can find it, it's
    worth picking up. (Awesome album art & design, too!)
    
    	I never cared for the late 70's-early 80's era albums; too much
    bland mainstream rock stuff. But I would definately recommend the
    late 80's albums "Freedom" (with some great Buddy Miles vocals) and
    "Blues For Salvador" (mostly instrumental). These two albums show
    Carlos to be just as magical today as he ever was. I listen to these
    2 CD's all the time.
                       
    
    Just Another Opinion,
    
    Brad Page
    

    
    	I had the *extreme* pleasure of opening for Carlos in July of
    1987. I got to talk with him briefly between sets, and he was
    super. Very mellow and down to earth. I had a security guard take
    a picture of the two of us, and almost cried when I got home and
    found out the camera was jammed :( !
    	Anyway, Europa is definitely one of my favorites. Marathon
    is a great cruising album also.
    
    r�

    
    Carlos Santana is now suing Miller Brewing Co. for using those licks
    from Black Magic Woman in a beer commercial without his permission.
    Miller's defense is that Santana got those licks from Fleetwood Mac,
    who did the song originally ( 1967?)
    Should be an interesting case- does a musician have a copyright on a
    certain sound? ( BB King is going to be one rich bluesman if that's
    true)
    
    					Jim

    Note that Carlos is not suing because he wasn't paid, but because
    "his sound" was used without permission.  His complaint is that people
    listening to the commercial assume it's him, and that he is endorsing
    beer.  I guess I can sympathize with his motives, but somehow I think
    the only winners in this will be the lawyers.

    I just can't let this topic go by without a reply (I've been on the
    road a lot lately, no time to review NOTES :*( 
    
    I became a lunatic fringe fan of Carlos Santana when I first saw him
    in '73 or 4. I was totally mesmerized by the man and his music. I liked
    the fact that although the band carried his name, he was only a part of
    the show. He stood near everyone getting into what they were doing on
    their respective instruments. It was difficult to belive that Michael
    Shrieve, the original drummer, was a white boy. 
    
    As the years moved on, I've seen Santana several times since, and once
    got to meet him and exchange picks with him. Unfortunately, I showed it
    to so many people that I lost it. (I wonder if he still has mine?).
    
    The last time I saw him was in June of '88 and I must say that I was a
    bit dissappointed. He had transitioned from being such a lyrical
    guitarist to just throwing note bursts out every now and then. It was a jazz
    fest, and perhaps he was trying to do something different. After all,
    he had some tremendous talent to play opposite (Chick Correa, Herbie
    Hancock most notably). 
    
    I haven't heard what he's been up to these days. It's good to hear from 
    others who have. I'm not such a fan anymore with the likes of Eric
    Johnson, et al. But anyone who hears me play will undoubtedly hear
    Carlos' influence upon me. Carlos is one of the greats. Like someone
    said in an earlier reply, even if he isn't your favorite, the man
    commands a lot of respect. He's not just a guitarist, he is an artist.
    
    "sakman"

    I can remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when I first
    heard 'Black Magic Woman'...guess it's just one of those songs that
    make an impact.
    
    One of my all-time favorite Santana songs is 'Incident At Nashbur'
    great feedback/sustain on that one.
    
    	joe.
    
    

    
    Quick question:
    
    What is the name (and what album does it come from) of an uptemp
    Santana song with a chorus that goes, roughly like this:
    
    Hold on
    Nothing's the same
    Tell me why I feel this way
    .
    .
    Before I was a pretender
    But now that's gone forever
    Nobody's ever loved me the way you do
    
    *****************************************
    
    That's all I can remember.  Heard it on the radio this a.m. and
    really enjoyed it.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Brian

    The tune is "Hold On". The album name is "Shango" I bleeves. Released
    in the early '80s.
    
    ...always reminds me of the early '70s tune "I'll Be Around" ("This is
    our fork in the road, love's last episode, there's nowhere to go..")
    
    Edd

    Thanks, Edd, for the pointer on "Hold On."
    
    Here's another Santanna question:
    
    Is there an anthology album of his music that anyone can recommend?
    
    There an early "greatest hits" album, but it is fairly unsatisying
    because it features short versions of the songs.
    
    I'd love to get a fairly inclusive set of all his studio stuff,
    if one exists.
    
    Brian

    The "Greatest Hits" album actually is from the mid seventies and covers
    only the first three albums (Santana, Abraxas and Santana III).  "Viva
    Santana" goes into the eighties but uses a lot of live versions. 
    Desite that, I find it excellent.  It's two CDs and runs about two
    hours of music, includes the obilgatory booklet with gruesome details
    about the band's history, etc.
    
    							Brian

    Poking through the racks, literally hours before the birth of my new
    daughter, I discovered the new Santana release "Milagro".  The album
    is "dedicated to the lives of Miles Davis and Bill Graham".  If you
    liked Santana's previous two releases "Blues for Salvador" and "Spirits
    Dancing...", you'll like this one.  I think this is pretty much the
    same band as on "Spirits", with a few guest appearances, most notably
    Alex Ligertwood on vocals on one track and Larry Graham (!) on another.
    The tunes are a maybe a little jammier than on the other two releases.
    Special mention should go to bassist Benny Rietveld, formerly with
    Miles Davis, who seems to have nailed down the bass chair in this band
    and provides some very tasty bottom.  Of course, there's plenty of
    searing guitarwork by Carlos himself; it's not anything you haven't
    heard before, but for some reason he still sounds fresh and vital.
    I never seem to tire of his playing.  Like it's two predecessors,
    there's also a heavy dose of that 60's cosmic peace-love let's get
    together stuff running through the tunes on this album.  Somehow,
    Carlos can get away with it; I guess it's his sincerity and integrity
    that let's him.
    
    A very cool album
    
    /rick

    re: .24
    
    Hi Rick, and congratulations!
    
    Santana used to be my idol back in the seventies. Up until the
    Moonflower album, I had everything he ever did. I even got to meet him
    once.  A few years ago, I went to the Jazz fest at Great Woods in which
    he was the headliner. I was so disappointed in his playing. His style
    seemed to have changed from those lyrical sustaining notes to short
    bursts. I couldn't help but notice Miles Davis' influence on him, ie.
    random notes in short bursts to sort of sprinkle the music rather than
    be an integral part of the music as I had known him in my days of
    adulation. 
    
    The obvious reaction might be "well sh!t, what's he supposed to do if
    he's an inspired musician, live off the same ol' Jungle Strut/Black
    Magic Woman/Toussaint L'Overture [et al - many al] forever." Well I
    give Carlos credit for being one of, if not the most shining example of 
    one who never stood still with his music and artistry. But if his style
    on the more recent albums is of the vane as what I heard at that jazz
    fest, I guess you could count me as an old fart who longs for the old days.
    As I get older, I'm beginning to understand what my Dad in Lawrence
    Welk.
    
    "sakman"    
            

I bought his last (before milagro sp?) Spirits Dancing in the Night or somesuch
name. I was terribly dissapointed and that's turned me off to the idea of 
wasting any more of my scarce $ on him again. Then again, if this album is 
good maybe I will...

dbii

    Well, if you didn't like "Spirits" then this one may not be for you
    either.  To be honest, the one before that, "Blues for Salvador", got
    more play in my house, and the new one is even better.  Still, I find
    a lot of similarity in all three of these albums.
    
    /rick

    Santana played Nashua last nite. Fabulous concert. Here are my
    impressions.
    
    Opening act was a band called Phish. I hadn't heard of them before. I 
    can't say I'd buy an album, but only because I buy so few anymore and 
    those that I do buy, I will have already heard it and know I'll enjoy 
    more than just one tune. Anyway, this group is different. To my ears, 
    sort of a Greatful Dead plays Santana type of group. They're good - real 
    good! Tight musicianship between them and nothing they played was easy.
    Complex rhythms, changes and timing. Naturally I focused on the guitar
    player. This kid is no garage band musician. It was clear to me that he
    was trained and disciplined. A great player. At one point, during
    Santana's show he played a couple of tunes with Carlos. To tell the
    truth, I liked what he played better than I did Santana's solos.
    
    Santana as a group was fabulous. These guys throw so much music and
    rhythm at you, it's just *awesome* in every sense of the word. I didn't
    recogize anyone from years past except Raul Rekow, on congas. At the 
    close of the show, Carlos introduced the band, but I couldn't quite make 
    out what he said except for Chester Thompson on keys and Benny something 
    or other on bass. As you'd expect from someone like Santana, everybody 
    is a tremedous musician. The only negative I would mention was that 
    except for the solo, the bass was muddy and indestinctive. I wasn't
    sure about him until the solo. The singer didn't have a lot of work to
    do as most of the night was instrumental. But when he did, man - what a
    good clear and powerful voice. He also played rhythm guitar. 
    
    By todays standards, Carlos is no longer a guitar wizard or virtuoso.
    He is a great player, but less of a technician when compared to 
    other wizards of today. What Carlos is, is an artist. I can't think of
    anyone else who I'd classify in the same way. He participates in the
    creation of the band by adding color to the music. That, I think is the
    essence of Carlos Santana. He's not the music nor, as the name would
    imply, is he the star. He is the leader and the product of his
    leadership is finely crafted. To say anything about the technicalities
    of his guitar playing I think misses the point of what he and his music 
    are all about. So, I'm going to skip that part and only say that if
    you're looking for virtuosity ala Eric Johnson, Steve Morse, Satriani,
    and others, see them. But for a truly musical experience - Viva Santana!
    
    "sakman"
    
     

>What Carlos is, is an artist.

    That's all that really counts.

    Hey Sakman, I was there too!
    
    Overall, I give this show an ok.  You know how some concerts put you
    on a cloud for days (or at least hours) afterwards?  This wasn't one
    of those.  It was a good show, just not really inspired imo.
    
    I thought the sound was a problem; Carlos was mixed too low much of the
    night, lots of things were often unclear (like vocals), they seemed to
    be pushing the decibels a little more than necessary.  Maybe they
    thought they had to be louder than the opener (who's mix and volume
    were right on, I thought).  Carlos seemed distracted much of the night;
    often he'd be looking over or talking to someone offstage, like he had
    equipment problems or something.  Sometimes this happened and he'd drop
    out at a key moment, like the entry into solo for "Oye Como Va".
    
    Not to say there wasn't plenty of good stuff though.  Almost every show
    has those moments when everything seems to come together and the magic
    happens, this one was no exception.  One of the bright spots for me was
    the tune "Somewhere in Heaven" off the new album.  Dedicated to Miles
    Davis and Bill Graham, and additionally SRV at the show, it really
    didn't grab me on record, but for some reason it was great live.  The
    vocalist just plain soared, and Carlos was totally on for this one.
    It's funny how sometimes a tune will be a sleeper on record, and you
    don't really hear it till you see it done live.
    
    From where I sat, it was almost impossible to make out the
    introductions.  The vocalist might have been Alex Ligertwood, who sang
    on a lot of the more pop-oriented late 70's stuff.  Don't know him by
    sight, but I heard Carlos say "Alex" something, and it sort of sounded
    like him.  The bassist on the album is Benny Reitveld, who played with
    Miles in the late 80's, but that was definitely NOT him at Great Woods;
    must be some other Benny.
    
    In all, a good night.  Carlos played the big hits, a lot of stuff from
    the new album, and not much different or experimental stuff.  No
    stretching, more like a leisurely walk through familiar territory.
    I agree with Sakman, Carlos is an artist; two notes from his guitar,
    and there's no question who's playing.  The rhythm section absolutely
    kicked.  It's almost like an unfair advantage; no matter what you do
    you can't help but sound good playing on top of it.  I also liked Phish
    a lot; my first real exposure to them, other than little bits on the
    radio.  One of the better openers I've seen at a big show.  I'd love
    to see them in a club sometime.
    
    /rick

    I hear a lot of Carlos' recent work on our radio station.
    
    As said, he is a guitarist who is identifiable after just 2 notes, but
    there are times when he sneaks up on me, too.
    
    He is also one of the most _fluid_ players I can think of... hard to
    tell where one note ends and another begins sometimes, kind of like a
    bowed instrument.
    \Gary

    Hey Rick, you might have seen me. I was the only guy there wearing a
    tie. I rushed there right after work. BTW, Have you ever seen so  many
    tie die tee shirts? Looked like thousands of clones of my son.
    
    In today's Boston Herald, they have a review of Santana's Great Woods
    show. They list the personnel as:
    
    "...longtime cohort Chester Thompson"
    Alex Ligertwood - vocals
    Myron Dove - Bass
    Raul Rekow, Karl Perazzo, Walfredo Reyes on percussion
    
    The guy who does the review, basically says "Though the show wasn't the
    match of Santana's finest past performances...there was still more
    sizzle than smoke." The reviewer also says "...Ligert's vocals grated at
    times and three separate drum solos is a bit much. On this comment I
    don't agree. 
    
    

Alex is one awesome vocalist, I saw the Zebop tour with him on it and they
were great!

Glad to hear he still jams, that last album really left me cold.

dbii

    Yeah, I don't agree about the "drum solo" comment either; with a normal
    band that might be true, but Santana is almost as much a riddum band
    as a geetah one.
    
    Sorry sak, no neckties in our section.  I never saw so many bandana's
    in my life!

    Only serious GTS types would probably notice, but did you check out
    Carlos's Paul Reed Smiths?  They seem slightly different from the norm.
    All the PRS's I see in shops, etc. have assymetrical horns, sorta like
    a Strat, but Carlos's are symmetrical, like an old LP Junior.  Looks a
    bit nicer, imo.  I know he got into PRS very early, like '85 or so, perhaps
    they were making them that way back then.  Or his could be custom built.
    Anybody know?
    
    The tops on em are outrageous, btw; you could see the flame from way back
    in the pavillion.
    
    /rick

    Yeah I thought I regocnized PRS guitars, but last I knew Carlos was
    playing and endorsing some Yamaha model. Admittedly the last I knew was
    a few years back. Carlos used to play Gibsons both LP's and SG's until
    about '74 when he started playing and endorsing Gibson L6S. Then, he
    called it his "rainbow" because it offered six different sounds with
    coil tapping and such. Back then, I did like 'em and wanted one because
    of the various sounds. Nowadays, with 5 position strats, all the
    signal processing fx that are available, and for a million other
    reasons, the L6S seems to me to be an adequate guitar at best.
    
    "sakman" 

    Partial Carlos axeology:
    
    50's Gibson LP Special - Single cut, 2 P-90's.  I think this may be
    the guitar on the first album and some of Abraxas (same sessions).
    
    60's Gibson LP Special - Cherry finish, SG body, 2 P-90's.  This is the
    Woodstock guitar.
    
    Late 60's/early 70's Gibson LP (Standard?) - According to Neal Schon,
    he and Carlos both bought new LPs around this time.  Carlos's was a
    sunburst, not sure if Standard or Custom.
    
    Gibson L6-S - The aforementioned Rainbow, used for a couple of years in
    the mid-70's.  In an interview once, Carlos complained that these were
    like GM cars; they'd break down every month or so.
    
    Yamaha SG-2000 - One of Carlos's longest running axes; around '77 to
    '85.  SG shape and big, heavy LP style contructed body; had a brass
    plate under the bridge for sustain (think of "Europa", this is the
    axe).  Supposedly Carlos helped design these; most of his had upgraded
    hot pickups.  A steal on the used market these days, btw.
    
    Paul Reed Smith - The latest.  For a while he seemed to be using both
    these and the Yamahas on different tunes, but I saw only PRS at Great
    Woods.  Carlos's have outrageous flame tops, one stained in red,
    natural, and blue sections.
    
    Funny though, Carlos always sounds like Carlos no matter which of these
    axes he's playing.  There are subtle differences however; listen carefully
    to the retrospective "Viva Santana", which has cuts with all of them and you
    can start to make them out.
    
    Carlos amp of choice has of course been the Mesa Boogie Mk-I, ever since
    he got one in the early 70's.  Before that, I think it was standard
    Fender gear, probably blackface Twins.  I'm still amazed though by the
    Woodstock setup; P-90 equipped SG through an early GK solid state amp,
    and it still has that signature sound.  So much for GTS.
    
    /rick

>    Only serious GTS types would probably notice, but did you check out
>    Carlos's Paul Reed Smiths?  They seem slightly different from the norm.
    
    I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that Paul would still custom
    build guitars.  Perhaps these are an example of that. 
    
    Greg

Seen last Friday on "ABC's In Concert 92"...

Featured artist was Carlos Santana.  

Now, I've never been a big fan of his, but what he said last Friday was
relly prolific.

"Rhythm is the masculine part, and the melody is the feminine part.
And the marriage between these two parts make the music."

Jmystr 

    
    
    I think Carlos has been sitting too close to the incense burner...
    
    For an enlightened guy he sure makes some sexist comments.  I don't
    mean to p*ss anybody off, so just hit that Next Unseen button and
    forget it.
    

    Carlos is a great player, but he's WAY baked. He said a lot of
    similarly spacey stuff in an interview a few years ago. I guess he 
    spent a long time at the cutting edge of psychedelic technology :-)

    Huh?
    
    The comment on .39 struck me as neither "sexist" or "baked".
    
    						Mr. P.C.

    Dudes, easy here. I've been following Carlos for many years (although
    not as much as I used to). Carlos is definitely *not* "baked". He's
    into spirituality and philosphy. He's been interested in spirituality
    for about 20 years now. As such, he tends to think in terms as stated
    by .39. It may be all lofty mental masturbation to some or even most of
    us. But the guy is not "baked".
    
    "sakman"

    Here here.  I agree with Brian, where's the sexism in Carlos' comment?
    I try very hard to be aware of sexist comments, I just don't see it
    here.
    
    Carlos may be baked to some, but I personally love to listen to the guy
    talk.  He comes up with these great, off-the-wall metaphors.  Like modern 
    amp distortion as "cellophane on your teeth", or his stale relationship
    with his old record company as "MacDonalds hamburgers left too long on
    the grill".
    
    A typical Carlos interview always has something interesting,
    meaningful, and deeply felt in it; how many rockers can you say
    that about?
    
    /rick

    
    Well, then, let's explore this a little bit...
    
    I don't have the quote on screen, but didn't he say the melody was the
    feminine part and the rhythm was the masculine part?
    
    I like analogies as much as the next person, but only when they're
    useful.  What properties do melody and feminity have in common?  What
    properties do rhythm and masculinity have in common?  How is the
    relationship between rhythm and melody like the relationship between
    masculinity and femininity?
    
    I like Santana's playing quite a bit.  But my antennae just start
    twitching when I read something as vague as that.  Maybe that's how
    Carlos really thinks about those things.  That's probably OK, as long
    as he's speaking to an audience with the same cultural references. 
    But, I think society is trying to get away from the traditional macho
    values that Carlos grew up with in Tiajuana.
    

    
    re: .45
    
    I *still* don't get your beef....
    
    Perhaps it's because I happen to think along spiritual/philosophical
    lines myself, but I didn't have a problem with what he said.
    
    I suppose he was saying that the melody plays the more submissive
    role, that it must not take on TOO much of a life of its own or it
    will clash with the rhythm part.
    
    If we were to directly map that into a definition of what the terms
    masculine and feminine mean when they describe *human beings*, we'd 
    probably come out a little less than politically or socially correct.
    I didn't see that Carlos' statement tried to do any such mapping.
    
    Masculine is anything a male does, feminine is anything a woman does.
    When dudes cook, I think it's still basically masculine.  When women
    work on cars, it's still feminine.  The individual defines the term.
    
    Half of all the zodiacal signs are masculine, and half are feminine.
    But does that mean that all males born under feminine signs are 
    effeminate (sp?)?.  And has anyone proposed an alternative to this
    system?  Of course not because the symbology is still appropriate
    and useful (to some).  
    
    We shouldn't confuse age-old symbolism (somewhat based on a historical 
    reality) with current reality.
    
    guy
    

    
    males do more thinking with the left(logical) half than the right-side
    (more creative, deals with spacial recognition etc). Women have a
    more complex buss between the hemisphere's and more easily and readily
    use both hemispheres.   A friend put it more crudely, males use just
    enough right-side so they don't eat their young, while females using
    both sides tend to be more caring, nourishing etc.
    
    folks may not like hearing this, but there is a growing body of
    evidence that supports the notion that gender difference has major
    impact on neurological functions.  This tends to bother some women
    activists since it suggests(to some) that male/female equality or
    lack there of is the a product of the course of nature. Pat Buchanan
    is an example of someone who tends to hold such views. If you look at it 
    the same way most in this conference look at their axes and accessories, 
    the ladies have the better gear for sure.  I would imagine that with
    continued success in achieving social equality we'll see more and more 
    monster women players.
    
    The trick in dealing with *sexist* remarks is trying to distinguish
    real physiological differences/similarities verus the cultural
    differences which sadly have had much to do with women being heavily
    oppressed for many hundreds of centuries.  Equal but not the same would
    be a fair statement.
    
    bob

    re .45
    
    Ok, I appreciate the well thought out and stated reply.  *My* antennae
    start twitching when I sense a knee-jerk accusation of sexism or
    any similar -ism without serious thought; your follow up suggests that
    this isn't the case, but rather a legitimate question.  You're correct,
    there may in fact be some notions about masculinity and femininity from
    Carlos' culture that aren't appropriate in yours and mine.  I'm still not
    sure this quote gets into these areas however.
    
    To me, there are no dark or unsavory associations between masculinity
    and rhythm and femininity and melody; it does acknowledge a difference,
    which I find appropriate.  And the resulting association of music to the
    "marriage of the two" is, to my mind, quite poetic.
    
    It would be nice to hear if any women out there find any problem with this
    quote and these associations.  Maybe I'm blind to it.
    
    /rick

    
    To reply to my own note in .46, I could just as easily have said
    that the chords are dictated by the melody and therefore are in 
    the more feminine, "submissive" role (if Carlos had used *that* 
    word he'd have been in *real* trouble).  FWIW....
    
    guy

    
    
    	Uh,...
    
    	'scuse me,.. but the suggestion that Carlos is sexist is totally
    @#$%^&* bogus.
    
    	Your interpretation of what he said as being sexist is your
    perception. I believe this is a case of extreme sensitivity that
    borders on irrationality. Perhaps the words masculain and feminine
    should be eliminated... it seems obvious now that anyo0ne who uses
    these words is "sexist"....
    
    	I'm going to go have a beer and try to forget the BS floating
    around in here about this.
    
    								/cat

Oh, boy!!!  L'il ol me started all this trouble?  8*)

I guess I'm having hard time figuring out why the comment sounds
sexist as well, nor if Carlos is "baked".

But how about this analogy?

RHYTHM=MASCULINE=should be solid.
MELODY=FEMININE=should be more of a flowing motion.

And what he said about the "marriage" between the two, I thought it was 
rather appropriate.  Like someone playing Metal Crunch lead over the 
Osmond's, or soft classical solo to Jimi's driving music.  These wouldn't
fit very well.  

I take what he said to be saying the two parts must be able to mix 
together well, like in marriage, but both have distinct roles to play, 
also like in marriage, and sometims the roles can change, again, also 
like in marriage.  

Maybe I can relate to his comment because of my home life.  I'm more 
analytical, she's more creative.  I'm daddy, she's mommy.  Is that sexist?  
Sorry, I can't breast feed, she can, but we both can bottle feed.  
I think that is just a fact of life that both sexes do have special 
talents that the other lacks(in this department, I think females hold 
a better hand than men).

Sometimes it's more appropriate for the rhythm/masculine parts to play 
the dominant part, and sometimes it's more appropriate for the melody/
feminine parts to play the the dominant part.  If you've analyzed Carlos 
to be saying that the melody must play the submissive role, then your 
sense of priority in music is warped.  Neither parts don't mean nothing
if the other isn't as great.

<   I like Santana's playing quite a bit.  But my antennae just start
<    twitching when I read something as vague as that.  Maybe that's how
<    Carlos really thinks about those things.  That's probably OK, as long
<    as he's speaking to an audience with the same cultural references. 
<    But, I think society is trying to get away from the traditional macho
<    values that Carlos grew up with in Tiajuana.

I coulda very well said this was a racist/stereo-typed remark.  So then
everyone from Tiajuana is a macho sexist?  That's as ridiculous as saying
all orientals are short!!!  And I'm a living proof that this second remark
is not true!

Jmystr

    
    
    
    		O' m'gosh..........where am I??  Is this quitar notes???
    
    			or  human relations....valuing differences...
    
    
    
    		WHAT A RATHOLE.....Talk about going off on a tangent!!
    
    		Unbelievable.
    
    		Anyone who cannot distinguish the inherent differences
    		between men and women and any analogies that may refer
    		to these differences is in serious trouble.......
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    				or a transvestite  8')
    
    
    		
    
    
    		BTW I'm a guy and I don't think I'm sexist??  AND I
    
    		agree with Carlos 100%.   So there!

    Unbelievable!  I figured whether or not I thought Carlos was cool was a
    yes or no question!!!!  
    
    Steve (who loves Carlos' TONE!)

    
    
    
    I agree, that's enough.  Some people get it, and some just never
    will...
    
    

>    -< maybe we need a philosophy note? >-
    
    We have one, it's called "General Discussion".  Philosophy (and just
    about everything else) is appropriately discussed there.
    
    Greg

    
    
    
         Sounds like someone ran around early this morning and
    pee'd in everybodies Cheerios!   
                                    8^)
    
    
    
       -Rick.
    
    

    >>Sounds like someone ran around early this morning and
    >>pee'd in everybodies Cheerios!
                                        8^)
      
    Bleck! Cough! Spit! Gag!.....these Cheerios tastes like @@#$%^&%$!       
    
    8^0

    
    Cheerios???  I thought we were having poke salad for breakfast!
    
    

    
    Getting back to sanity.....
    
    I recently heard Carlos and someone duetting. It was basically an
    acoustic version of Samba Pa Ti with electric fills and extended
    electric improvised tail. Can anyone tell me who the other artist was
    and on what record they appear etc particularly this track?
    
    Richard

    
    
    	Ok people no ribbing me ok....but.....
    
    
    	I heard Samba Pa Ti for the first time in a pub over the weekend...
    
    	and I really like it, most of it doesn't sound to tuff to figure
    out but does anybody have the TAB for it anyway? Also what album is it
    on?
    
    	J 

    .-2
    
    I think the duet you heard was with Otmar Liebert off his latest album,
    which I can't remember the name of even though I just bought it (gawd,
    I wish I could get a few of my brain cells back).  Anyway, I'll copy
    down the info tonight and bring it in tomorrow and post it.  BTW, I really
    like this arrangement, Carlos sounds terrific, and Otmar's not that bad
    either (actually, I like the whole album, it's kind of like Pink Floyd
    meets Rickie Ricardo).
    
    Al

    Samba Pa Ti is on the Abraxas album.

    
    
    	Thank you.
    
    

    BTW, the album with the Samba Pa Ti duet is called "Ottmar Liebert and
    Luna Negra, Solo Para Ti".  Carlos plays on at least two cuts, both of
    which are duets with Ottmar on Classical, Carlos plays electric.
    The label name is Epic, I found the album in the new age section,
    although I wouldn't really classify the music that way.
    
    Al

    Gee, Al, I thought you only looked at the "old age" section.
    
    Dave

    Hey Dave,
    
    This is the old age section! Last time I checked Carlos was a way older
    dude than I am.  All I can say is, at least I know what I want to be
    when I grow up (old!), unlike some bass-players I know who happen to
    have the Peter Pan syndrome.    
    
    Al
    
    BTW, I may not look better than Carlos, but I look a heck of a lot
    better than Jerry Garcia (doesn't everyone?).
            

    
    Jason (J=Jason?),
    
    I have the tab for Samba Pa Ti. Are you in Reading, DECPark? If so I
    can get a copy for you. I'm in G4A.
    
    It appears easy except that to get the true Santana 'feel' you've got
    to utilise all the ornamental hammer ons etc etc that the piece is
    litttered with. The TAB has all this. It also has the extended
    improvised tail which is pointless learning as it was probably a one
    off. Just as well to improvise around the distinctive Santana scale
    that I used to know.
    
    Regards,
    Richard

    
    Hi Richard,
    
    	I'm actually in Viables (UVO) in Basingstoke, maybe you could 
    	post it to me? Or scan it in and copy it over? Mail me offline
    	and we'll chat about it?
    
    J. (which does = Jason) :-)
    

    
    The newspaper says Carlos Sanatana is going to be on the Whoopi
    Goldberg show tonight.
    
    For New Englanders, her show is on Channel 5 at 12:05 a.m. and several
    smaller stations feature her in their own late-night slots.
    
    Crank up those VCRs!
    
    Brian

    What's going on, sweeps week or something?   First Satch, then Carlos.
    
    Latest one is that the Dregs will be on the Tonight show on Thursday.
    Ferget the VCR, crank up the Espresso machine!
    
    /rick

    fwiw...there's also a show featuring Stevie Ray Vaughan on TNN this
    week sometime....

    Hey I just found this note. I'm a big Santana fan.
    I have all his stuff on LP,tape or CD.
    I've been to his last 4 concerts at greatwoods.
    
    I don't play the guitar (what I wouldn't give to be able to play Semba
    Pa Ti just once) so I can't address the technical points of his play
    but as has been stated before its more the feeling that the music gives
    you.
    
    I'm trying to find any music where Santana may have sat in with another
    band for a tune or two.
    
    Any pointers would be appreciated.
    
    
    Thanks  
    
    Steve Bo.
    
     

> I'm trying to find any music where Santana may have sat in with another
> band for a tune or two.

Carlos plays guitar on Dylan's 'Real Live' album.

alan

    He's on the "Live Adventures of Bloomfield and Kooper" album on CBS,
    sitting in on one or two tunes when Bloomfield failed to show up at the
    Fillmore.  This is from 68, so it's basic blues jamming.
    
    I assume you already have "Love, Devotion and Surrender", the album he
    did with John McLaughlin? How about "Illuminations", the album with
    Alice Coltrane?
    
    He plays on the title track of John Lee Hooker's album "The Healer". 
    Not sure if he is on the followup, "Mr. Lucky".
    
    He plays (uncredited) on Jefferson Airplane's "Bark", on a tune called
    "Pretty As You Feel".
    
    He's on a McCoy Tyner album on CBS whose title I can't remember.
    
    He plays on one of the Babatunde Olatunji (sp?) albums on Rykodisk
    (forget which one).
    
    That's all I can think of....
    
    							Brian

    
    
    Re: -1
    
    >>That's all I can think of....
    
    
    Brian, you kill me.  What a memory!
    
    Kevin
    

     >>That's all I can think of....
    
    C'mon Brian, you dissapoint me....surely you can think of a few more
    pages of trivia on Carlos.......
    
    >:*)

    Carlos is also on some Weather Report recordings. I believe he's on 
    "This Is This" and am pretty sure he's on others.
    
    Don

    Carlos has a new CD out, something like "Sacred Fire: Live in South 
    America". It's great! An absolutely amazing version of Black Magic 
    Woman. I've been listening to it for a week now non-stop.

    
    I saw a little blurb on the Internet this morning about Carlos
    Santana and Jeff Beck doing a U.S. tour together this summer.  Anybody
    know anything about this, or dates and venues?
    
    Thanks,
    Al
    

    Haven't heard anything up this way,but i'm definately into that!

    Saw Carlos last night at Great Woods.  Jeff Beck was the "opening act." 
    Pretty good show.
    
    Beck was deafening. We were in the second to last row inside. If we
    were any closer, I think we would have been in pain.  Santana's volume
    level was reasonable.
    
    Beck was using two Marshall half-stacks, each with two heads, and a
    Fender half stack sitting under what looked like a vintage Bassman.  He
    had no stomp boxes or controls on the floor, but there must have been a
    tech running some effects for him. He couldn't have been doing _all_
    that with his hands, could he?
    
    Santana was pretty much the opposite.  He had a control center on the
    floor in front of him which he was stopming on all night.  His amp was
    the tiniest little Boogie... one ten or one twelve speaker, one center
    mic and one off center.  Infinite sustain.
    
    One nice touch was that Carlos brought out Ronnie Earl as a special
    guest for three or four songs.  Ronnie did a pretty good Santana
    imitation at times!
    
    Beck and Santana did not appear on the stage simultaneously.

>    Beck was using two Marshall half-stacks, each with two heads, and a
>    Fender half stack sitting under what looked like a vintage Bassman.  He
>    had no stomp boxes or controls on the floor, but there must have been a
>    tech running some effects for him. He couldn't have been doing _all_
>    that with his hands, could he?
    
    Well, I don't know whether or not he had someone offstage doing that
    stuff, but I would not be the LEAST bit surprised if what even SOUNDED
    like an effect was with his hands.
    
    I remember seeing some sort of video in which he was just plugged
    right into an amp and watching in amazement as he went from tone
    to tone (clean to distorted, thin to fat, etc) without touching
    anything - not even the volume control - on his guitar.
    
    I'll bet the fact that Santana had only one tiny little amp meant that
    the overall sound was INCREDIBLE.   (Am I right?)  My own theory is
    that BY FAR the most common thing that causes concert sound to go bad
    (both in arenas and tiny little clubs) is excessive stage volume.
    
    One secret I learned long ago is that if you're fortunate enough to
    have a guy doing sound for you, the MORE you turn your amp down,
    the more of you he'll pump thru the mains and the better you'll
    sound.   Direct sound from the PA is always going to be much clearer
    than indirect sounded from an amp that's been bounced off walls
    and what not.
    
    I have a number of tapes made from feeds off the boards and in many
    of them, the only instrument you can hear well is my keyboards because
    the guitarists are usually much louder and the sound guy shuts them
    way down.
    
    Even so... I now know that I have what might be a REAL serious hearing
    loss.   There are times when I can't even understand people on the
    phone.
    
    	db

    Did Carlos do anything in memory of Jerry Garcia?
    

    There's no doubt Beck was doing incredible things with his hands, and
    alot of what sounded like effects he was doing.  But I was watching him
    pretty closely through the binocs and I did catch at least a few cases
    where there was definitely a delay effect.
    
    Yes, Santana's sound was excellent, but I don't know that the little
    amp meant his sound on stage was quiet.  One difference between a Great
    Woods sound system and a smaller system is that the pro systems have
    hefty stage monitors.  Carlos could have been loud as hell on stage and
    how would we know?  I think the fact that his sustain was infinite, as
    I said (without exaggeration), proves that he had to have a decent
    stage volume (he made no effort to stick near his amp).  If I only had 
    first row seats, I could be telling you from experience, because he let 
    about 100 people on stage with him for the last few songs.  I was dying 
    to be up there to hear what the stage sound was like.  I've only played 
    on a stage like that one time and it was one of those six bands in eight 
    hours things so there was no soundcheck and the stage sound never got 
    right.
    
    In the smaller PA systems such as my band hires, there's a limited
    number of mixes in the monitors and a limited number of monitors on
    stage (at least partly because the stage is usually small).  So any
    suggestion to put anything other than voices into the monitors is
    discouraged.  We do it anyway, but we try to minimize it.
    

    Carlos talked alot up there, and he did gush over Garcia for a minute
    or two.  I don't think he actually dedicated a song to him.

    So, Carlos still plays through (probably) that old Boogie.
    
    I've heard the story that C.S. actually coined the name for the amp.
    
    He tried out a small prototype amp and stated. (Paraphrased somewhat
    badly, also, insert Cheech Marin's voice here...) "Wow, there's
    a mess'a boogie in that amp!" 
    
    Larry

    Carlos said "Man, that little thing really boogies"
    
    "Mesa Engineering" came about when Boogie couldn't get components from
    distributors and needed a more serious-sounding name than Boogie.
    
    Danny W.

    Carlos plays an original MKI Boogie exclusively; he says he doesn't
    care for the sound of the newer models (I agree).  The MKI re-issue
    a few years ago was at least partially done at his request.  Carlos
    also favors Altec 12" speakers and keeps refurbishing his old ones
    when they wear out.  I tried an Altec 12 in my Boogie and wasn't too
    crazy about it.  But then, I'm not Carlos.
    

Sort of strange that Beck was so loud since he suffers from tinitis.  I expected
Beck to play at a very mellow volume.  I sold my tickets as I ended up being out
of town on Sunday.

Sounds like a good show.

Tim

    
    	Steve - are you talking about the show at the Centrum??  If so,
    	I guess it depended where you sat.  I was all the way across and
    	at a little above stage height.  SRV was way too bassy and Beck
    	was perfectly clear.
    
    	And yeah, he does amazing things with just his fingers.
    
    	Tom
    

    Same here (hear?).  Sitting on the side at the Centrum you got PA
    mix; Beck was painful, SRV was perfect.  Beck's stage volume seemed
    to be more reasonable.
    

    You wanna talk deafening -- Danny Gatton way back when in Somerville
    ... Remember Rick C?

    Uh, could you repeat the question?
    
    :-)